Originally posted by Zekiah
It's a good thing that people aren't willing to pay for food, cars, houses or operations that aren't finished because I guarantee you they'd try to sell us that crap if they could get away with it. The gaming industry is the only one I know of that people gladly hand over wads of cash for unfinished products. There's a difference in adding content later and adding promised content later. How many games are shipping without systems these days such as PvP? It's pathetic.

People buy Houses, Eye-Glasses, Tailored Suits, and all sorts of things every single day without know "for sure" what the final product will be like.  But they do trust that the company will deliver what they propose so its not like this is somethign entierly foreign.

Originally posted by olepi
I still haven't understood why someone would "pre" purchase something? Why not wait until it is released, then buy it? Just because of a few perks? I can't think of any other product that asks you to pay now, for a product later. Why would you buy something without being able to see it, when you can just wait until it releases, then see it as it is, and then buy it?

Originally posted by AI724
"I still haven't understood why someone would "pre" purchase something? Why not wait until it is released, then buy it? Just because of a few perks? I can't think of any other product that asks you to pay now, for a product later. Why would you buy something without being able to see it, when you can just wait until it releases, then see it as it is, and then buy it?" Here's a simple truth. ArenaNet, I played GW1 and I like GW1 very much! I have been watching your beta gameplay videos of GW2 and love everything I've seen and read about GW2 so far. Here's my $80, please accept it as a thank you for your hard work and sleepless nights and as a support from me so that you can complete GW2 and keep on supporting the game after it releases. There, that is why I pre-purchased!(oh, and of course for the mini charr and beta access also :)

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Zekiah
It's a good thing that people aren't willing to pay for food, cars, houses or operations that aren't finished because I guarantee you they'd try to sell us that crap if they could get away with it. The gaming industry is the only one I know of that people gladly hand over wads of cash for unfinished products. There's a difference in adding content later and adding promised content later. How many games are shipping without systems these days such as PvP? It's pathetic.

People buy Houses, Eye-Glasses, Tailored Suits, and all sorts of things every single day without know "for sure" what the final product will be like.  But they do trust that the company will deliver what they propose so its not like this is somethign entierly foreign.

I pre-purchased because I wanted Arenanet to have money to make the game the best it can be.  How many companies run out of money and release an unfinished game only to see it tank because of it.  GW2 is going to be a very good game and only better with more funding.  This also means that when it is released, even more people will buy it because of how polished it is at release. 

Don't wait for the next big thing.  Invest in the one just around the corner.

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by slicknslim88

Anybody who has bought a Capcom game, EA game, or a Blizzard game in the last several years has bought an unfinished game.  It's nothing new in today's gaming world anymore unfortunately.

 

So, the question is: Why is it evil when other game companies do it, but awesome when ANet does it?

I've been asking myself that a lot recently, over a range of things (i.e. "P2W" cash shop, instanced e-sport PvP, EZ mode instant gratification 80s for PvP, easy fast travel, extremely fast leveling, meaningless game world, etc).

It's evil for other company's to do it because they release the unfinished product, and sell you the rest of it in small increments for 5, 10, and 15 dollars every other month.

it, would be the equivalent If Anet released GW2 on April 10th in it's current state, charged everybody 60 dollars for the game and sold the rest of the development process in "DLC" packs and patches for 10 dollars per patch.  Watch closely as they DON'T do that.

P2W cash shop? gimme a break.  Instanced e-sport PvP...that's a bad thing?  Because it comes with the Mists WvW also.  EZ mode instant gratification PvP? OH NOES!! PvP where everybody is on an even keel and it's completely fair!? That's dreadful!!  easy fast travel? damn, your right, wasting time on a flying bird is sooo much more preferable.  fast leveling? again...bad thing? especially when the entire game is at your fingertips the higher level you are.  meaningless game world? lawlzorz, in what way i ask you?  because interacting with the enviornment using dynamic events seems the absolute opposite.

Please tell me the etc so i can continue to carefully explain how much of a moron you are.

Originally posted by Zekiah
It's a good thing that people aren't willing to pay for food, cars, houses or operations that aren't finished because I guarantee you they'd try to sell us that crap if they could get away with it. The gaming industry is the only one I know of that people gladly hand over wads of cash for unfinished products. There's a difference in adding content later and adding promised content later. How many games are shipping without systems these days such as PvP? It's pathetic.

 When I order pizza online for delivery, I get charged, before they start to make my pizza!  I am assuming the risk that I actually get my pizza!

What if I die before GW2 is released, I mean, should I be that careless, to pre-purchase it?

You use common sense, and if the risk/product is acceptible, then you do it....As for a game that promises PvP later, it usually means its going to suck...Like Neverwinter says PvP will come out later, so it will probably suck, but the game is free, and it is ftp, so it isn't like you are doing more than investing your time....  Just have to add it all up...

I don't think their has been a great MMO released in the past 5 years, just to give my opinion on that.

Originally posted by Abdar

Originally posted by silvermember

Originally posted by Abdar

Asking people to pre order a game still under a heavy NDA is wrong. I mean ultimiately people will make their own call, but this has SWToR written all over it. 

Wish I could say more..

Nobody really cares what you have to say.

The people that pre purchase did so knowing full well what they were getting themselves into. Nobody that pre purchase is a child most of htem are adults and they do so knowing full well what they are risking.

Also, a better analogy would be putting a down payment on a car(used) or house(not new). You might have a basic idea of how the house or car is, but you wont until a few weeks later. 

I said people will make their own call and that's fine. Their money. 

To further your analogy, do you buy a car before test driving it? Do you buy one based on select information when you know there's a lot that's still hidden from you? I sure wouldn't. Now we are only talking about a game here so less money of course, but the point is the same.

Either way, I'm still sticking to my guns and think it's wrong to ask people to buy your product when you are deliberately holding information back on it as well as not letting others share their thoughts on it.

 

 

When you buy a car used, what guarantee do you have that it wont break down in the middle of the road? the answer is you really don't have one. You might look at carfax for a hint, but there is no guarantee the car will still be running. Test driving doesnt always show problems until an extended amount of time.

It's good to stick to your gun, that why we have something called freewill. Whether its right or wrong its not really your concern or YOUR business, the people that  pre purchase clearly don't mind doing it. They all did so knowing full well whatever happens, happens. I think people like you need to stop worrying about what ADULTS with freewill DO with their money and just worry about yourself.

Originally posted by Zekiah
It's a good thing that people aren't willing to pay for food, cars, houses or operations that aren't finished because I guarantee you they'd try to sell us that crap if they could get away with it. The gaming industry is the only one I know of that people gladly hand over wads of cash for unfinished products. There's a difference in adding content later and adding promised content later. How many games are shipping without systems these days such as PvP? It's pathetic.

People totally pay for unfinished houses all the time. That is, in essence, what you do every time you build a house.

.... or do you think that nobody at all gets paid until the house is complete and you've lived in it for three months or so to make sure all the bugs are ironed out? :)

People also buy unfinished cars (For example, custom ordering one), and pay for catering and such, which is basically unfinished food.

Uhm.

Hmm.

*shrug*

You guys are completely missing the point.

When you buy food, cars, houses etc., you're paying for something that's going to be COMPLETE when delievered. You don't buy houses that come with missing windows or cars with missing seats on a PROMISE that they'll show up later.

This really isn't difficult to grasp here. 

How is this different than any other MMO?   

You're not really guarranteed anything when you buy it.   Most reviewers don't even play to end game.   Just look at what happened with AoC.

I pre-purchased because I am a giant GW2 fanboi that sits at my computer all day with a wad of money in my hand screaming at my screen "ARENA-NET TAKE MY MONEY GOD DAMMIT"

While maybe an over exagerattion Arena-net would have to do a lot to lose my faith in them.....probably just as much as Bioware has done over the last couple of years.

Originally posted by Zekiah

You guys are completely missing the point.

When you buy food, cars, houses etc., you're paying for something that's going to be COMPLETE when delievered. You don't buy houses that come with missing windows or cars with missing seats on a PROMISE that they'll show up later.

This really isn't difficult to grasp here. 

Theres a problem with all this car and houses thingy going on here. And that is that in essence, MMOs are never finished.

If we did what you wanted then we would never ever buy an MMO.

The pre purchase is like paying for a house beforehand and having the opportunity to have a virtual tour for it so that you can see what you are getting in the future.

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by BadSpock
I've never tried to argue that point Zek - all MMOs are unfinished when you buy them. Kind of been true for over a decade. Once again, GW2 pre-order is "business as usual" in the MMO genre.

 

Hasn't that "business as usual", all MMOs are "unfinished", rationale been identified as the bane of the MMO world for the last ten years?  Entire crusades against games have been led as a result.  Supposedly, it's what's been wrong with the industry, along with several other evils.

Allowing pre-orders before giving a release date has also been widely damned by the MMO community.  Prospective players are now funding the continued development of the game, as the saying goes, without ANet having the courage to determine an actual date of release.

So, it's business as usualy in the MMO industry with ANet as well.  Nothing new here.

 Their are levels on 'unfinished'....Take WAR and it's crafting, they had it in name only at release, it didn't even really work...ANET, like it or not, people trust that its core systems will be in a more finished and working mode...I have questions about the game, but I feel confident that I will get my $ out of it, just in WvWvW....I mean I only played TOR for the free month, and feel I got my $ out of it, not worth the subscription imo, but I got my $ out of it...

By definition, MMOs can never be 'complete' or 'finished', they are always changing, what you need to ask for is that the core systems that they say they will have at launch are there, and in good working order...If they are not, then that individual game/company has misled people and cheated them, even if in a small way...

GW2 will not release with everything they said they will have, if those systems are a key to you buying, then it is probably best to wait to buy the game, to make sure they are at a level that will make you happy...MY key was the WvWvW..I feel it will be worked on, after it releases, but it is in a state that I think I will get my mnoey out of it.

Worries for GW2:

1.  Quests/Dynamic content, this goes back to a year ago, I called them quest loops, may be ok to do once, but I don't know if you will get that continued play out of a loop, no matter how many steps it has...

2.  Crafting - Will it be worth it, and will the harvesting system be worth it?  I mean if the game isn't about stats too much, how good can the crafting really be?  I hope good, but it is a concern for me, as a whole...

3.  Dungeons/Open world bosses/encounters - Will they be fun enough and 'worth' it to me, will I care enough about cosmetic things?  They are using a new model, getting rid of the carrot/stick, and hopefully anything that resembles a daily grind...I asked for it, this isn't the exact system I asked for, but will I like it?  I don't know..

4.  Cash shop - I am very distrustful of cash shops, so much so, that I have never done more than trial a free to play game with one, as I worry about it becoming blatantly p2w, and then I will not want to play it, and 'lose' the time i have invested in the game...As I have more things to do than play a game, and I do not jump around and play a bunch of stuff at once...So I generally invest most my playing time, in one game...So I don't trust companies too much...So I am a little weary about it, but the WvWvW has me taking this leap....If it changes much, I probably won't play it, but hopefully I get my $ out of it first...

5.  Arena/E-sport stuff - I find them boring, and if I wanted to do it, I would play a FPS, I know a lot enjoy it, but these are my worries and issues....So I worry the game will cater and revolve around this aspect in the future, and cheapen aspect that I like, for a aspect that I have zero interest in doing and would be fine with it not being in the game...

So yeah, I have a lot of concerns, but to be honest, I feel 99.9% that I will get my money out of the game, and that means 1 month of play...I think I will get more, and I am willing to take that risk...If I had another MMO I was playing, I may not take that risk, but I think MMOs in the last 5 years have sucked as mmos for the most part...I have generally been someone that atleast plays something for a year, up to 8 years (and no, never subbed WoW, before someone assumes that and has a snide remark).  I also work and make good money, so this 'risk', really isn't much of one overall, my time being wasted on a game is more of a risk, than the $ aspect for me.  So not everyone jumps into things blindly, or believes the hype...  We have done the calculations, and they come out in favor of playing, and waiting 3-6 months is silly imo, if I am playing, I will play, if not, in 3-6 months, I will still not play it.

Originally posted by Zekiah

You guys are completely missing the point.

When you buy food, cars, houses etc., you're paying for something that's going to be COMPLETE when delievered. You don't buy houses that come with missing windows or cars with missing seats on a PROMISE that they'll show up later.

This really isn't difficult to grasp here. 

Uh, yeah, actually you do buy houses with the promise they'll be complete when delivered.  Or cars.

Have you never paid to have a house built, or have a car custom made for you?  :(  (I've had the latter, though not the former, though I know plenty of people who have)

People pay ahead of time for things in construction all the time. :T 

Originally posted by Zekiah

You guys are completely missing the point.

When you buy food, cars, houses etc., you're paying for something that's going to be COMPLETE when delievered. You don't buy houses that come with missing windows or cars with missing seats on a PROMISE that they'll show up later.

This really isn't difficult to grasp here. 

So by what you have stated, I shouldn't have bought SWTOR because it was missing a feature of Legacy system , and Ilum.

I shouldn't even think about any other MMO being developed because they are still working on features that hasn't been implemented yet.

I shouldn't have even bought Mass Effect 3 because they have DLC's that should have been included in the game.

I shouldn't have played any Video Games because none of them was a fully finished with all features available.

What do you mean I have to unlock these characters in Street Fighter and Tekken, they should have come with my purchase.

Man I can't believe I have been suckered into Video Gaming in the first place, because it seems everywhere I turn I have been purchasing Unfinished Games.

Thank You so much for pointing them out, I guess I have learned my lesson and will stop playing Video Games from now on.

People waiting for a complete and finished MMO before buying are living in a dream!  The nature of the beast is that an MMO is never going to be finished or complete, or why would anyone pay a monthly fee to play?  MMo's make their money adding new content and stuff to buy in the case of F2P.  \

Every single MMO release the critics whine about it not being complete, buggie and a hundred other things they personally don't like about the game.  If we were to listen to that chatter none would be bought and the gender would of died out a long time ago.  Most reasonable people read the complaints along with the positives and figure out if they can live with the bad while enjoying the good.

As for pre-buying I believe thats up to each individual after they have weigh the positives and negatives.  I personally enjoyed the perks of pre-buying on the few MMO's i did it with. 

What I don't understand is someone telling me i shouldn't do this or that because they feel something is right or wrong!  i reserve that right for myself and leave you to do what ever you feel is right or wrong, just leave me out of your decision!