Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by Starpower

 

Btw. you lose also something in games like WoW. Time. How many dungeons raids did you have done without getting anything? You just wasted your time. Or lost your time so to say. Without being even funny. And time is the real value for casuals, and that is also the reason raiding isnt the most favorable thing for casuals neither.

Heh, great observation, which is why I don't enjoy raiding, or even dungeon running repetitively to aquire gear.  Unless you win the luck of the roll (and I almost never do, no luck it seems) you did in fact waste your time.

I much prefer systems where every dungeon run would at least be profitable in terms of cash received which I could then in turn accumulate and spend on items on the market then I don't mind doing them.

Too often when I raided in WOW (pre BC) we'd spend a fortune in pots, repairs and time only to come away empty handed (personally) unless a DKP system was in place to at least make it somewhat worthwhile.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by Starpower

How about I steal your credit card while you console yourself with the fact you got a skill increase in common sense

if you value game pixels as much as your credit card (large sum of real life money) i think you might have some serious issues that you should attend to immediately....

It's an anology. They don't have to have equal value. Since you had trouble understanding abstract reasoning as in a previous post I commented on, I will gladly help you understand this one

 

Gaining one kind of value doesn't always make up for losing another. Specially if the lose/gain ratio is far from equal. If you still have some trouble I'll gladly expand it some more

I think you'll understand full loot games better once you move away from the concept of epics and 'hard earned' gear. In most full loot MMOs, gear is perceived as a consumable - the expectation is that you will not likely have some or all of it at the end of a battle. Gear is also often very replacable and there is often a reasonable amount of storage space in order to keep various sets of gear and backup gear.  In a game like WOW, where you repeat the same hour-long dungeon run 20 times just to get one particular piece of gear, that is a horrific notion, especially with the limited storage and game mechanics that reinforce that deviating from Your One Role and its ideal equipment set will put you at a disadvantage.

 

Not every MMO is designed like WOW.

 

No idea why you are bringing WoW into the discussion. Your own negative cannonations towards specific games has nothing to do with me. You are probably better off projecting your own feelings towards WoW and it's players somewhere else where it does more good.

Besides that your whole answer is a bit pointless. This isn't about me. Whatever concept loot or gear has is irrelevant and it doesn't make it less of a hardcore mechanic. If it was a casual mechanic you would see it in casual games

Originally posted by astoria

I have tried to play Darkfall casually, and I'd recommend anyone try that game, but I couldn't stick with it because so few people played it. PvP was fun, but I'd play for a week before someone would attack me. I'd even run into enemy territory and people would just run away.

I went to some organized event, race war, a few years ago, and everyone was talking about how everyone would be there, and oh it was so massive. psssh it was like 150 people. At that same time, I'd be fighting in mobs of 150 every night in War.

I don't fully know why people don't gravitate to DF. Its not that big a deal, except psychologiaclly when you loose stuff, it is so easy to get more stuff.

I have cringed more at the death penalty in City of Heroes (which barely has one except for the fact that you have a long long way to run back sometimes.

My clan brought over 40 people back/into the game this week. More new players have been popping up at the Capital cities as well. Now might be a good time to have another look. The population is not anywhere near as big as what it used to be though. We used to have 800+ man sieges. Althouh honestly since I rolled a new character for the NA server I am happy that the population is less dense. It makes leveling up much easier.

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by Starpower

How about I steal your credit card while you console yourself with the fact you got a skill increase in common sense

if you value game pixels as much as your credit card (large sum of real life money) i think you might have some serious issues that you should attend to immediately....

It's an anology. They don't have to have equal value. Since you had trouble understanding abstract reasoning as in a previous post I commented on, I will gladly help you understand this one

 

Gaining one kind of value doesn't always make up for losing another. Specially if the lose/gain ratio is far from equal. If you still have some trouble I'll gladly expand it some more

I think you'll understand full loot games better once you move away from the concept of epics and 'hard earned' gear. In most full loot MMOs, gear is perceived as a consumable - the expectation is that you will not likely have some or all of it at the end of a battle. Gear is also often very replacable and there is often a reasonable amount of storage space in order to keep various sets of gear and backup gear.  In a game like WOW, where you repeat the same hour-long dungeon run 20 times just to get one particular piece of gear, that is a horrific notion, especially with the limited storage and game mechanics that reinforce that deviating from Your One Role and its ideal equipment set will put you at a disadvantage.

 

Not every MMO is designed like WOW.

 

No idea why you are bringing WoW into the discussion. Your own negative cannonations towards specific games has nothing to do with me. You are probably better off projecting your own feelings towards WoW and it's players somewhere else where it does more good.

Besides that your whole answer is a bit pointless. This isn't about me. Whatever concept loot or gear has is irrelevant and it doesn't make it less of a hardcore mechanic. If it was a casual mechanic you would see it in casual games

I used to lose all my rings in Sonic the Hedgeghog when I got hit. Does that make it a hardcore or casual game?

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by Starpower

 

Btw. you lose also something in games like WoW. Time. How many dungeons raids did you have done without getting anything? You just wasted your time. Or lost your time so to say. Without being even funny. And time is the real value for casuals, and that is also the reason raiding isnt the most favorable thing for casuals neither.

Heh, great observation, which is why I don't enjoy raiding, or even dungeon running repetitively to aquire gear.  Unless you win the luck of the roll (and I almost never do, no luck it seems) you did in fact waste your time.

I much prefer systems where every dungeon run would at least be profitable in terms of cash received which I could then in turn accumulate and spend on items on the market then I don't mind doing them.

Too often when I raided in WOW (pre BC) we'd spend a fortune in pots, repairs and time only to come away empty handed (personally) unless a DKP system was in place to at least make it somewhat worthwhile.

 

ofc, doing WoW type raids without DKP is madness.

Regardless of all those good points, one thing remains, and has always been, those type of games attract the worst kind of players. This comming from a die-hard PvPer, while I love the idea, I cant stand the community.

Its a proven history of, griefing, quest giver harrasment, verbal abuse.

Seriously, thats considered fun?

Originally posted by Charas

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by Starpower

 

Btw. you lose also something in games like WoW. Time. How many dungeons raids did you have done without getting anything? You just wasted your time. Or lost your time so to say. Without being even funny. And time is the real value for casuals, and that is also the reason raiding isnt the most favorable thing for casuals neither.

Heh, great observation, which is why I don't enjoy raiding, or even dungeon running repetitively to aquire gear.  Unless you win the luck of the roll (and I almost never do, no luck it seems) you did in fact waste your time.

I much prefer systems where every dungeon run would at least be profitable in terms of cash received which I could then in turn accumulate and spend on items on the market then I don't mind doing them.

Too often when I raided in WOW (pre BC) we'd spend a fortune in pots, repairs and time only to come away empty handed (personally) unless a DKP system was in place to at least make it somewhat worthwhile.

 

ofc, doing WoW type raids without DKP is madness.

Well, with all the changes they've made with puggable raids and what not I had assumed things were a bit easier now.

(no personal experience however)

Originally posted by Kreedz

So, I just managed to aquire my first set of Plate Armor, and I'm killing rats now... when suddenly, a max level character ganks me and loots my newly aquired armor. 

 

But it's all 'G' bro, because my skill in defense went up. I just need to get myself some new armor and try again.... actually, no I don't... I'll just stand naked and wait for people to gank me to improve my defence points some more.

 

Man, I feel like such a hero getting ganked over and over to skill up.

/sarcasm

 

 

 

Great Idea, let me know how many copies you sell.

This response is exactly the reason why I created this post. I cant talk someone into pvp if they already dont like pvp. With my OP, I am describing a case where eventually you are going to build up enough skill points and awareness when you are playing so that you dont get ganked. And if you do, loosing that plate armor wont mean too much because you have 4 other sets of the armor(that you may have made with your skills) or guns in the bank to replace it with. Items arent the focus, its how proficient your character becomes in whatever skills he is working up and the 'role' you are playing within the world.  

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by Classicstar

Darkfall is very good playable as a casual you don't have to be a hardcore playing that game thats a mis assumption about the game.

doesnt it take years / hours of botting to get your skills maxed in that game?

yes

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by Starpower

How about I steal your credit card while you console yourself with the fact you got a skill increase in common sense

if you value game pixels as much as your credit card (large sum of real life money) i think you might have some serious issues that you should attend to immediately....

It's an anology. They don't have to have equal value. Since you had trouble understanding abstract reasoning as in a previous post I commented on, I will gladly help you understand this one

Gaining one kind of value doesn't always make up for losing another. Specially if the lose/gain ratio is far from equal. If you still have some trouble I'll gladly expand it some more

I think you'll understand full loot games better once you move away from the concept of epics and 'hard earned' gear. In most full loot MMOs, gear is perceived as a consumable - the expectation is that you will not likely have some or all of it at the end of a battle. Gear is also often very replacable and there is often a reasonable amount of storage space in order to keep various sets of gear and backup gear.  In a game like WOW, where you repeat the same hour-long dungeon run 20 times just to get one particular piece of gear, that is a horrific notion, especially with the limited storage and game mechanics that reinforce that deviating from Your One Role and its ideal equipment set will put you at a disadvantage.

 

Not every MMO is designed like WOW.

No idea why you are bringing WoW into the discussion. Your own negative cannonations towards specific games has nothing to do with me. You are probably better off projecting your own feelings towards WoW and it's players somewhere else where it does more good.

Besides that your whole answer is a bit pointless. This isn't about me. Whatever concept loot or gear has is irrelevant and it doesn't make it less of a hardcore mechanic. If it was a casual mechanic you would see it in casual games

I have no issue with WOW. However, your reply is based on an obvious lack of understanding of the key differences between gear-progression games and full-loot PVP games. You can replace 'WOW' with any game based on gear progression. If you don't get it, that's fine. Not everyone does.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by Starpower

How about I steal your credit card while you console yourself with the fact you got a skill increase in common sense

if you value game pixels as much as your credit card (large sum of real life money) i think you might have some serious issues that you should attend to immediately....

It's an anology. They don't have to have equal value. Since you had trouble understanding abstract reasoning as in a previous post I commented on, I will gladly help you understand this one

 

Gaining one kind of value doesn't always make up for losing another. Specially if the lose/gain ratio is far from equal. If you still have some trouble I'll gladly expand it some more

I think you'll understand full loot games better once you move away from the concept of epics and 'hard earned' gear. In most full loot MMOs, gear is perceived as a consumable - the expectation is that you will not likely have some or all of it at the end of a battle. Gear is also often very replacable and there is often a reasonable amount of storage space in order to keep various sets of gear and backup gear.  In a game like WOW, where you repeat the same hour-long dungeon run 20 times just to get one particular piece of gear, that is a horrific notion, especially with the limited storage and game mechanics that reinforce that deviating from Your One Role and its ideal equipment set will put you at a disadvantage.

 

Not every MMO is designed like WOW.

 

No idea why you are bringing WoW into the discussion. Your own negative cannonations towards specific games has nothing to do with me. You are probably better off projecting your own feelings towards WoW and it's players somewhere else where it does more good.

Besides that your whole answer is a bit pointless. This isn't about me. Whatever concept loot or gear has is irrelevant and it doesn't make it less of a hardcore mechanic. If it was a casual mechanic you would see it in casual games

I used to lose all my rings in Sonic the Hedgeghog when I got hit. Does that make it a hardcore or casual game?

Think I've had you on ignore since the time I created this account. Sometimes I check and see if I made a mistake with people. In this case I can see it's business as usual

You should feel honored. There's only two people on it. It's very prestigious

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by Starpower

How about I steal your credit card while you console yourself with the fact you got a skill increase in common sense

if you value game pixels as much as your credit card (large sum of real life money) i think you might have some serious issues that you should attend to immediately....

It's an anology. They don't have to have equal value. Since you had trouble understanding abstract reasoning as in a previous post I commented on, I will gladly help you understand this one

Gaining one kind of value doesn't always make up for losing another. Specially if the lose/gain ratio is far from equal. If you still have some trouble I'll gladly expand it some more

I think you'll understand full loot games better once you move away from the concept of epics and 'hard earned' gear. In most full loot MMOs, gear is perceived as a consumable - the expectation is that you will not likely have some or all of it at the end of a battle. Gear is also often very replacable and there is often a reasonable amount of storage space in order to keep various sets of gear and backup gear.  In a game like WOW, where you repeat the same hour-long dungeon run 20 times just to get one particular piece of gear, that is a horrific notion, especially with the limited storage and game mechanics that reinforce that deviating from Your One Role and its ideal equipment set will put you at a disadvantage.

 

Not every MMO is designed like WOW.

No idea why you are bringing WoW into the discussion. Your own negative cannonations towards specific games has nothing to do with me. You are probably better off projecting your own feelings towards WoW and it's players somewhere else where it does more good.

Besides that your whole answer is a bit pointless. This isn't about me. Whatever concept loot or gear has is irrelevant and it doesn't make it less of a hardcore mechanic. If it was a casual mechanic you would see it in casual games

I have no issue with WOW. However, your reply is based on an obvious lack of understanding of the key differences between gear-progression games and full-loot PVP games. You can replace 'WOW' with any game based on gear progression. If you don't get it, that's fine. Not everyone does.

Why do assume that? have you even read anything I've written or just skimmed. Somebody already explained it better than you did and i agreed with him.

It's not about how things function but the fact it's hardcore. Unless you want to argue about popularity, the word niche or the fact it isn't hardcore at all because it's a revolving echonomy based on consumable gear vs themeparks then your post is still pointless

If there's a discussion to be had here then it would have to be about how "easy" gear is obtained. If it takes half a day to replace then it's a hardcore mechanic. It it takes an hour then i can somewhat agree it can be geared towards casuals too. When i say hour I'm not talking about the travel time between your spawn spot and the bank but actually farming<crafting

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

So getting killed and losing all your stuff isn't an issue because all the stuff is replaceable.

 

The one failing I see in this is that players who died and got their stuff stolen are at least somewhat likely to turn off the game, cancel subscription, and find something else to play.

 

I can't see a game that has basic mechanics encouraging people to quit being described as casual-friendly.

People who play a game fully aware that they can lose all of their gear don't stop playing because they lost their gear or died.

People stop playing for far more reasons than that, including...

1) Lack of progression, which always occurs in a non-decay non-loot non-permadeath game. Eventually you hit max level with max gear. In a loot game you are always getting good gear, always progressing. In a permadeath game, you are NEVER not progressing.

2) Repeated spawn camping, repeated deaths, inability to win, repeated loss, extensive time wasting in repetitive losing.--- all in a short amount of time, or in an accumulating short amount of time many different times until patience disappears. Any game can encourage this, from softcore WoW to hardcore Darkfall. The only game that wouldn't encourage repetition in losing would be a game with permadeath, designed around players not dying easily. This would make losing in a permadeath game a rarity even for bad players, making it the only game that doesn't allow repetitive losing in a short amount of time. Of course, in that game a loss is WORSE so it might have equivalent frustration (dying 3 times in a permadeath might be as frustrating as repeatedly dying 300 times in WoW or losing 30 matches in a row).

3) Boredom. Can happen in any game, no matter what.

4) Performance Issues.

5) Other reasons.

Losing your gear in a game where gear isn't as important? I have actually never heard of, encountered, or even assumed a player would quit because of this. Ultima Online had people lose some of the most valuable things, and that might make them really frustrated to quit for a few days or a week-- but quiting the game ENTIRELY? That requires something completely different: boredom, realization it is a waste of excessive amounts of time for less fun, etc.

If you like a game, you stay despite small frustration.

If you don't really like the game, you will leave for reasons far surpassing a little gear loss, or even permadeath.

The ONLY situation I can see someone rage quitting a video game is if they never realized it was a [FFA Loot, Permadeath, Harsh Death Penalty, whatever etc.] game.  They enter the game and dont realize they can lose their gear, so they quit. They enter the game and dont realize there is permadeath, so they quit upon death. This is based on ignorance, which is the player's own fault.

Any other time, they will quit because the game is boring, time sink requirements, or uninteresting gameplay. If the game takes 1 year to max a character AND is has permadeath, they will quit after death, but not because of permadeath. Because it's a bad video game that requires a RIDICULOUS amount of time sink to progress. If the game loses your gear, and your gear takes a month to get and you cant win PvP without that gear, you will quit bc of bad design. If the game has permadeath and the character creation process and low level gameplay is insanely repetitive and boring, they will quit bc of repetition and boredom. But if a game is fun, addicting, and a quality design-- it doesnt matter if you lose or win, you will keep playing until it gets boring.

Else the MOBA genre wouldn't be so insanely popular, despite it being one of the most frustrating genre of games in existence, with people extremely angry and violent because of the frustration involved with losing. Yet people keep coming back more and more, and instead of quiting they might just take a break.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Charas

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by Starpower

 

Btw. you lose also something in games like WoW. Time. How many dungeons raids did you have done without getting anything? You just wasted your time. Or lost your time so to say. Without being even funny. And time is the real value for casuals, and that is also the reason raiding isnt the most favorable thing for casuals neither.

Heh, great observation, which is why I don't enjoy raiding, or even dungeon running repetitively to aquire gear.  Unless you win the luck of the roll (and I almost never do, no luck it seems) you did in fact waste your time.

I much prefer systems where every dungeon run would at least be profitable in terms of cash received which I could then in turn accumulate and spend on items on the market then I don't mind doing them.

Too often when I raided in WOW (pre BC) we'd spend a fortune in pots, repairs and time only to come away empty handed (personally) unless a DKP system was in place to at least make it somewhat worthwhile.

 

ofc, doing WoW type raids without DKP is madness.

Well, with all the changes they've made with puggable raids and what not I had assumed things were a bit easier now.

(no personal experience however)

You get tokens for every boss kill now which you can use to buy epic gear from vendors.  So even if you get no loot on a run you can come out with 1/5th of an item worth of tokens.  With smaller raid sizes, loot priority is not as big issue so DKP is not really used much anymore in WoW. 

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

So getting killed and losing all your stuff isn't an issue because all the stuff is replaceable.

 

The one failing I see in this is that players who died and got their stuff stolen are at least somewhat likely to turn off the game, cancel subscription, and find something else to play.

 

I can't see a game that has basic mechanics encouraging people to quit being described as casual-friendly.

People who play a game fully aware that they can lose all of their gear don't stop playing because they lost their gear or died.

People familiar with the mechanics won't quit. That's the fanbase and what those games aim towards sales wise. A random player just joined is probably more likely to think said mechanic is too punishing and ragequit. It does happen

Originally posted by Classicstar

Darkfall is very good playable as a casual you don't have to be a hardcore playing that game thats a mis assumption about the game.

Whole problem with free for all and full loot is, firstly people are way to much attached with there pixels on the screen secondly they just dont wanne be disturbed ganked pked and die while running around or hunting mobs and risk losing all these prescious pixels.

99% of gaming community wanne be left alone and only pvp in instance.

Darkfall is great game as long you dont be so damn upset losing some computer generated pixels.

All these fanatic bragging pvpers in most themeparks are pussy's when they ask playing a free for all full loot game they carebarely say no, there are just to many carebears out there im affraid.

This is what keeps me away from the majority of games like the types mentioned in this thread. I am by no means a "carebear", I do enjoy some good PvP, but the community... That is what gets under my skin.

I am hardcore, I am a wolf and you are all sheep... GTFO...

I've become 'carebear' over the years.  If 'hardcore' is the group that is found within games like Eve, Mortal Online and Darkfall (all of which I've played, the last 2 for several months) then no thank you.

I've found hardcore pvpers to be the one's who exploit and outright cheat at every single chance they get (because exploiting and then killing a non-exploiter is real 'hardcore').  The 'hardcore' PvPers are usually the one's that seem to have no life what-so-ever outside of the video game (they are ALWAYS online, ALWAYS powergaming, ALWAYS the first one's to reach max skill level), the hardcore pvpers are usually the one's who talk $%^& to no end.

Lastly, since when did it become a good thing to be considered 'hardcore' in relation to video games?  lol...I highly doubt these people brag about being hardcore in real life?  I have no desire to be called 'hardcore' in relation to online video games.  I'll take my 'carebear' games, I guess I've forced myself down this path since my real life is 'hardcore' in that I have a wife and job and other responsibilities.

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by Classicstar

Darkfall is very good playable as a casual you don't have to be a hardcore playing that game thats a mis assumption about the game.

Whole problem with free for all and full loot is, firstly people are way to much attached with there pixels on the screen secondly they just dont wanne be disturbed ganked pked and die while running around or hunting mobs and risk losing all these prescious pixels.

99% of gaming community wanne be left alone and only pvp in instance.

Darkfall is great game as long you dont be so damn upset losing some computer generated pixels.

All these fanatic bragging pvpers in most themeparks are pussy's when they ask playing a free for all full loot game they carebarely say no, there are just to many carebears out there im affraid.

This is what keeps me away from the majority of games like the types mentioned in this thread. I am by no means a "carebear", I do enjoy some good PvP, but the community... That is what gets under my skin.

 

I am hardcore, I am a wolf and you are all sheep... GTFO...

And I love to imagine the look on their faces when wolves get skinned... welcome to OwnageLand .... GTF(I)n ....XD

Originally posted by xDayx

I consider myself a casual hardcore player. I like what is considered to be hardcore mmo's but only have an hour or two to play at night.  I think there is alot of misconceptions about FFA pvp and loot. Someone who isnt acclimated to it may think....

"You die and you lose all your equipment? Thats dumb. Why work for it?"

When in actually what is happening is...

-Soandso hits you for 25 damage to the torso! (You have gotten better at Defense!).

-You circle around to see how many are attacking you and measure up your enemy. You notice there are 2 people wearing pretty nice armor by the color of it. 1 still far away. You sprint to your horse. (You Running skill has increased!)

-Soandso hits you for 40 damage to the head. (You have died!)

So what happened?

-Your skill points went up and can never go back down unless you want them to. No other player can ever take that away from you. The next time someone tried to damage you they wont do as much because your skills points are higher. 

-Perhaps you were in infamilar territory which in the future you will remember to keep a closer eye out for enemies. Especially people in the guild of your attacker. You may want to scout out shortcuts next time.

-So the next time you can apply what you learned.  Later on when your skill points are capped,and you know your environment, you will have no trouble obtaining more armor, or materials.

In  addition, most FFA-pvp games I know the items have durability on them anyway. So even if you get an item and dont lose it, it will decay away anyway. The trick to becoming leet is to learn the best way to have a steady stream of items or gear to use if you do happen to lose them whether its by crafting or knowing the right player that will make it for you.

So in summary, you may lose your stuff that is going to break anyway but you can never lose the skill points and knowledge you gain.

PS- in addition you dont have to play one 40 hrs a week to enjoy it. Just set yourself a goal and you will eventually achieve it.

The thing is that most MMOs are focused on gear, not stats so most players aren't interested in losing their gear.

And while it is realistic to loot someones stuff you also should have a realistic carrying capacity for it to make sense. You would not loot my 20 pound chainmail if you already wore one and a bunch of other junk. Full loot makes no sense whatsoever when you can carry as much as you can in most MMOs,

I could see a FFA PvP game that actually was close to mainstream but it would have to be a lot better made then the ones on the market right now.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by xDayx

I consider myself a casual hardcore player. I like what is considered to be hardcore mmo's but only have an hour or two to play at night.  I think there is alot of misconceptions about FFA pvp and loot. Someone who isnt acclimated to it may think....

"You die and you lose all your equipment? Thats dumb. Why work for it?"

When in actually what is happening is...

-Soandso hits you for 25 damage to the torso! (You have gotten better at Defense!).

-You circle around to see how many are attacking you and measure up your enemy. You notice there are 2 people wearing pretty nice armor by the color of it. 1 still far away. You sprint to your horse. (You Running skill has increased!)

-Soandso hits you for 40 damage to the head. (You have died!)

So what happened?

-Your skill points went up and can never go back down unless you want them to. No other player can ever take that away from you. The next time someone tried to damage you they wont do as much because your skills points are higher. 

-Perhaps you were in infamilar territory which in the future you will remember to keep a closer eye out for enemies. Especially people in the guild of your attacker. You may want to scout out shortcuts next time.

-So the next time you can apply what you learned.  Later on when your skill points are capped,and you know your environment, you will have no trouble obtaining more armor, or materials.

In  addition, most FFA-pvp games I know the items have durability on them anyway. So even if you get an item and dont lose it, it will decay away anyway. The trick to becoming leet is to learn the best way to have a steady stream of items or gear to use if you do happen to lose them whether its by crafting or knowing the right player that will make it for you.

So in summary, you may lose your stuff that is going to break anyway but you can never lose the skill points and knowledge you gain.

PS- in addition you dont have to play one 40 hrs a week to enjoy it. Just set yourself a goal and you will eventually achieve it.

The thing is that most MMOs are focused on gear, not stats so most players aren't interested in losing their gear.

And while it is realistic to loot someones stuff you also should have a realistic carrying capacity for it to make sense. You would not loot my 20 pound chainmail if you already wore one and a bunch of other junk. Full loot makes no sense whatsoever when you can carry as much as you can in most MMOs,

I could see a FFA PvP game that actually was close to mainstream but it would have to be a lot better made then the ones on the market right now.

I agree.