Originally posted by Ceridith

I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

Concern is understandable.  Caution is understandable and advised.  But to paint a Snidely Whiplash moustache on Anet for starting preorders before cash shop content is disclosed is... just silly.  Anybody who cares about what's in the shop will wait.

Originally posted by Fir3line
Why do you care what i do with my money?

No one cares what you do with your money but when MMO players throw money at games like GW2 it only shows other companies that we approve of cash shops and lack of any long term incentives in a game.

When WoW came out, we all jumped on board and look where it took the industry.  I think a lot of us are concerned with what we're seeing with GW2 and would strongly prefer that the industry not follow in ArenaNet's footsteps.

Sure the game will be decent and fun but it's not what many would like to see in an MMO.   Unfortunately, the MMO community has been so beaten down over the past few years that somehow Guild Wars 2 has become the most anticipated game in quite some time.  

Some may praise where the genre is going but I don't really like it.  I put up with it but haven't felt very inspired by a game in quite a long time. 

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Ceridith

I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

 

What reality are you referring? It must be your own special one, because we dont even know whats all in the CS. There is no reason at all to think they will suddenly put P2W items in there.

Yet you say this is a reality, and expect other people to stop what they are doing.

Thats some amazing logic you have there. 

The reality that most of the people drooling over this game are convinced that it's going to be amazing and have no flaws, yet the game is still under NDA and the state of several things, including the cash shop and it's contents, are still up in the air.

I'm not saying that ANet will put P2W in, or that GW2 will suck. What I am saying is that no one will know for certain until the game is released. Yet despite that, there are several people who have not only convinced themselves that the game will be the best thing ever, but are going out of their way to outright attack anyone who doesn't feel the same way as they do.

Originally posted by PieRad

If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

 

After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

 

There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

 

This way they get money from both sides.

 

 

 

 

 

DANGER! DANGER!

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Ceridith

I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

 

What reality are you referring? It must be your own special one, because we dont even know whats all in the CS. There is no reason at all to think they will suddenly put P2W items in there.

Yet you say this is a reality, and expect other people to stop what they are doing.

Thats some amazing logic you have there. 

Better to be cautious and happy later, then pre-purchasing now and bitching later. There is merit in what Ceridith is saying. The problem is what some others also said, Guild Wars 2 is an evolving behemot and the same goes for the cashshop. That they don't put in P2W items now, doesn't mean they won't do it later on. It's all speculation at this point.

I don't believe that ArenaNet will abuse the cashshop and break their Manifesto. But that's just me. I have been a fan of Blizzard and Bioware, but lately I don't enjoy their recent games as much as I did with previous titles. Companies change, strategies change. So while I believe that the cashshop won't impact the competitive side of Guild Wars 2 at the release, who knows what the state of the shop will be in a few years?

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Adalwulff

You dont want GW2 then.

All games are not alike, nor should they be. If you are looking for those type of competitions, there are lots of games out there for that.

Anet has never talked about GW2 that way. It was designed around the idea of esports. In other words teh game is mostly about PvP.

What your doing, is like buying an apple, then complaining it doesnt taste like an orange.

I agree GW2 will have esports but it will offer plenty of PVE in the realms of wealth, vanity, and crafting too

GW2 is *not* primarily a pvp game despite what you think

 

Oh, it is a PVP game.  I can say it is 100% factual by what I actually played hands on.  One thing I noticed while pvping, people are slow at removing conditions and using their heals.    I was using a heal to remove a condition  and also another utility to remove conditions so I constantly broke free of any cripple, bleed, etc  I sacrificed some damage and utility for more survivabilty and it showed during my constant wins against people focused on dps.  It made my GS/Rif Warrior a pain for those folks, while at the same time i was stacking bleeds/vulnerabilty on them since they never cured themselves.  Many an easy fight just because of that.

Originally posted by MikkelB

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Ceridith

I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

 

What reality are you referring? It must be your own special one, because we dont even know whats all in the CS. There is no reason at all to think they will suddenly put P2W items in there.

Yet you say this is a reality, and expect other people to stop what they are doing.

Thats some amazing logic you have there. 

Better to be cautious and happy later, then pre-purchasing now and bitching later. There is merit in what Ceridith is saying. The problem is what some others also said, Guild Wars 2 is an evolving behemot and the same goes for the cashshop. That they don't put in P2W items now, doesn't mean they won't do it later on. It's all speculation at this point.

I don't believe that ArenaNet will abuse the cashshop and break their Manifesto. But that's just me. I have been a fan of Blizzard and Bioware, but lately I don't enjoy their recent games as much as I did with previous titles. Companies change, strategies change. So while I believe that the cashshop won't impact the competitive side of Guild Wars 2 at the release, who knows what the state of the shop will be in a few years?

Your making sweekping assumptions, basically your saying all MMO players are complete idiots. Anybody who has pre-purchased teh game is fully aware of the game, if they are not, then they probably dont care about the CS at all.

Either way, its odd that you guys have taking it apon yourselves to "save" us ....lol

Originally posted by MikkelB

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by PieRad

If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

 

After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

 

There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

 

This way they get money from both sides.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't play then.

Who should not play then? The OP? Although he raves against P2W, perhaps he is one who plays games where he can P2W and is tired of people moaning against that system.

You just can't always use the sentence "Don't play then" to debunke every negative argument.

You don't agree? Don't post then

So if you don't agree with me "Don't Post then". 

Originally posted by PieRad

If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

 

After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

 

There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

 

This way they get money from both sides.

 

so, are you saying that once you make your purchase ANET will get your money forever and strip you from any power?

my friend, when you buy "pre-purchase" something that its not out yet you have all the power to return the deal and get your money back. That is obvious enough to avoid typing posts like you and make yourself look bad. Besides, do i even care about your wallet? no, why should you care about ours? you clearly no nothing about GW2 either. But, it seems GW2 haters are feeling the pressure already.

keep on trolling buddy. Everyone has a right to speech although its only worth sharing wise words.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Ceridith

I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

 

What reality are you referring? It must be your own special one, because we dont even know whats all in the CS. There is no reason at all to think they will suddenly put P2W items in there.

Yet you say this is a reality, and expect other people to stop what they are doing.

Thats some amazing logic you have there. 

The reality that most of the people drooling over this game are convinced that it's going to be amazing and have no flaws, yet the game is still under NDA and the state of several things, including the cash shop and it's contents, are still up in the air.

I'm not saying that ANet will put P2W in, or that GW2 will suck. What I am saying is that no one will know for certain until the game is released. Yet despite that, there are several people who have not only convinced themselves that the game will be the best thing ever, but are going out of their way to outright attack anyone who doesn't feel the same way as they do.

And this keeps you up at night? Seriously!

Just fyi, many MMO players are old guys, been doing this stuff for years, we also have many college students, educated and bright, we can make decisions for ourselves.

Ok, well thanks for the warning, and you take care of yourself, ok?

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Ceridith

I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

 

What reality are you referring? It must be your own special one, because we dont even know whats all in the CS. There is no reason at all to think they will suddenly put P2W items in there.

Yet you say this is a reality, and expect other people to stop what they are doing.

Thats some amazing logic you have there. 

The reality that most of the people drooling over this game are convinced that it's going to be amazing and have no flaws, yet the game is still under NDA and the state of several things, including the cash shop and it's contents, are still up in the air.

I'm not saying that ANet will put P2W in, or that GW2 will suck. What I am saying is that no one will know for certain until the game is released. Yet despite that, there are several people who have not only convinced themselves that the game will be the best thing ever, but are going out of their way to outright attack anyone who doesn't feel the same way as they do.

It seems to me like Guild Wars 2 will be a pretty good game overall based on the press videos I have seen from reviewers that I trust. I am particularly interested in the gameplay aspects and am excited to see a new perspective on the genre.

It also seems to me like you attempt to be an individual with a superior intellect. An intellect so great, you are able to see through all the hype and all the bull that everyone else is completely unable to comprehend. You have this special knack for spotting bullshit that no one else in the world could even come close to comprehending.

I'm just glad you are here to make sure all of us know that we are drooling over the game and actually are just blind fanatics that have no sense of what they are getting themselves into. Without you, GW2 fans just wouldn't know where they stand. Blind suckers might feel awkward without you, but fortunately you are here to make sure they are put in their place.

Thank you Ceridith.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by MikkelB
...

 

Your making sweekping assumptions, basically your saying all MMO players are complete idiots. Anybody who has pre-purchased teh game is fully aware of the game, if they are not, then they probably dont care about the CS at all.

Either way, its odd that you guys have taking it apon yourselves to "save" us ....lol

No, he's saying that the final state of the game is still uncertain, which is what I've been saying.

And I'm sure that the people who pre-purchased would like the believe they're fully aware of the game, yet I'm certain that the vast majority simply don't know all the relevant fact... particularly because the game is still being tweaked and has yet to be finalized, in addition to the fact that the game is still under NDA preventing a lot of player feedback from being dispersed.

As for "saving" you... nope, I'm just tired of the cycle of hype and dissapointment, leading to these forums becomming riddled with complaints when the game inevitably fails to meet the over-inflated expectations of most players. I'm not saying GW2 will be another TOR, but from the looks of the amount of hype surrounding this game, it wouldn't surprise me if it happened... again... for the Nth time in the past seven years...

Originally posted by koira1

What? they got my money already? but i havent bougth the game yet, sneaky bastards..

 

LOL...I love this.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Ceridith

I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

 

What reality are you referring? It must be your own special one, because we dont even know whats all in the CS. There is no reason at all to think they will suddenly put P2W items in there.

Yet you say this is a reality, and expect other people to stop what they are doing.

Thats some amazing logic you have there. 

The reality that most of the people drooling over this game are convinced that it's going to be amazing and have no flaws, yet the game is still under NDA and the state of several things, including the cash shop and it's contents, are still up in the air.

I'm not saying that ANet will put P2W in, or that GW2 will suck. What I am saying is that no one will know for certain until the game is released. Yet despite that, there are several people who have not only convinced themselves that the game will be the best thing ever, but are going out of their way to outright attack anyone who doesn't feel the same way as they do.

 

And this keeps you up at night? Seriously!

Just fyi, many MMO players are old guys, been doing this stuff for years, we also have many college students, educated and bright, we can make decisions for ourselves.

Ok, well thanks for the warning, and you take care of yourself, ok?

Where the hell did you get that from?

I'm just sick of trying to have actual discussions about the game, including both the good and the bad, without being flamed by fanboys who act like I'm insulting their ancestors for having reservations about the game.

What's even more irritating is that the vast majority of these fanboys end up being the same people who end up coming back onto these forums a couple months after release to very vocally bitch about how the game didn't live up to their standards.

I just want to be able to discuss MMOs without wading through endless fanboyism and moaning about games that failed to live up to people's over-inflated expectations.

Originally posted by Ceridith

I just want to be able to discuss MMOs without wading through endless fanboyism and moaning about games that failed to live up to people's over-inflated expectations.

And many of us want to be able to discuss MMOs without wading through endless haterism and moaning about games that other people are excited about while being told how stupid we are for enjoying something different.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

 Your making sweekping assumptions, basically your saying all MMO players are complete idiots. Anybody who has pre-purchased teh game is fully aware of the game, if they are not, then they probably dont care about the CS at all.

Either way, its odd that you guys have taking it apon yourselves to "save" us ....lol

Worse even, most people are idiots. In particulair ones that can't think for themselves. Be assured though, I'm not out to "safe" you. While there are people who know what they purchased, there is also a group of people who don't. Talking about sweeping assumptions, define "fully aware of the game". My knowledge of Guild Wars 2 comes from what ArenaNet posted on their blogs and the vid's on youtube plus some reviewsites. I haven't touch the game myself, neither do I believe some randoms poster on some random forum who claims that he/she did.

While I do know some of the basic concepts of the game, there is probably a lot more that I don't know till I experience it myself. That is as "aware of the game" as I can possible get at this moment. My guess is there is also a significant group that pre-purchsed the game after reading some articles on IGN or something, which may not even touched the subject of the cashshop.

Anyway, to claim that everyone that pre-purchased the game knows what they purchased is nonesense. The amount of people in this forum alone that thinks that it's the same as a pre-order is already larger then what I expected. So know, people are not "fully aware".

Besides, what so bad about saying that both sides in the cashshop argument are right in some ways? Are you that narrowminded and quick to offend? The sceptics just say that even if the cashshop is harmless now, you don't know what the state will be in a year or so. The other side believes that ArenaNet will not use the cashshop to make Guild Wars 2 a P2W game (ArenaNet's manifesto, etc.). Both sides can be right and it will not harm anyone if they think before they decide to buy/not buy the game, let alone pre-purchase it.

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by PieRad

If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

 

After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

 

There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

 

This way they get money from both sides.

 

so, are you saying that once you make your purchase ANET will get your money forever and strip you from any power?

my friend, when you buy "pre-purchase" something that its not out yet you have all the power to return the deal and get your money back. That is obvious enough to avoid typing posts like you and make yourself look bad. Besides, do i even care about your wallet? no, why should you care about ours? you clearly no nothing about GW2 either. But, it seems GW2 haters are feeling the pressure already.

keep on trolling buddy. Everyone has a right to speech although its only worth sharing wise words.

You should read the terms before you buy something..

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Ceridith

I just want to be able to discuss MMOs without wading through endless fanboyism and moaning about games that failed to live up to people's over-inflated expectations.

And many of us want to be able to discuss MMOs without wading through endless haterism and moaning about games that other people are excited about while being told how stupid we are for enjoying something different.

Who's telling you that you're stupid for enjoying something different?

The only thing I see in this thread is the implication that pre-purchasing a game that is still under NDA and yet to be finalized, as being a very foolish thing to do.

The true irony of your statement is that a lot of the things being labeled as hatred, are nothing more than legitimate concerns or criticism by people actually trying to discuss the game.

Originally posted by PieRad

If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

 

After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

 

There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

 

This way they get money from both sides.

 

 

 

 

 

So let me get this right, After the nda drop, after the bwe's, and post launch the cash shop will never change?  The way you think you should just never buy this game and move on.  There is always a chance that the game will change, that things will go in the cash shop that you dont like no matter how long you wait and see.   If you fear change and what can happen to a game give up mmo's in general because none of them stay the same.  Not one of them is the game you bought so long ago

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Ceridith

I just want to be able to discuss MMOs without wading through endless fanboyism and moaning about games that failed to live up to people's over-inflated expectations.

And many of us want to be able to discuss MMOs without wading through endless haterism and moaning about games that other people are excited about while being told how stupid we are for enjoying something different.

It's sad to see you resort to these silly tactics, you used to provide good discussion and debate.