All I see is those who are tweaked at not having any beta time raging but trying to conceal it as "Robin Hood Syndrome".   I'm embarrassed for the OP and those of his ilk.   Conspiracy theories and bad analogies can't conceal the real motivation.  I realize not everyone has strong income but...

If microtransactions are a deal breaker for you, go channel your rage elsewhere.   It's such a bizarre and comical thing this whole feigned concern for the well-being of the gaming world.   Next it'll be expectations that AAA titles are free and the company producing them can be satisfied with write-offs from their lost income prior to filing for CH7/11 bankrutpcy.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Magnetia

Even the company is sick of this.

 

Ok, let me put this straight:

This whole "discussion" is kind of ridiculous. No one is forcing you to pre-purchase the game. If you don't want to - don't do it. Our BWEs will not be under NDA, so there will be a ton of information out there from players so you can make an informed decision if you want to buy the game or not. And then buy it on launch. Or pre-order. Or whatever you want to do. 

It is your choice to pick from the different offers.


You in this case as a general you, not a specific person.

-Martin Kerstein

Let's all put our conspiracy hats away until the BWE. I promise that I will not hold back on the bad of GW2.

Link please?

I wonder what the answers are.

He can be annoyed about it for as much as he wants but he should realize it has been their own decision to roll the game out they way they are doing. i.e. not in the most open and transparent way.

Try looking at it from his perspective Dark... They did this for us (the fans). Most MMOs don't do this sort of thing anymore. They have pre-orders, and if you're lucky you can get into beta, but most people just get an invite to headstart / open beta if they shell out the extra dough.

What Anet did was give players the opportunity to sort of 'put their money where their mouth is'. By showing that htey support they game, players are given the ability to help out in beta. People aren't paying more than they would if they bought it on launch, they are just paying it earlier, to get to play earlier. Furthermore, while this is new for an MMO, on steam games have been doing that for a while.

We are not entitled to get into beta at all, but people are acting like it. The phrase 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' comes to mind.

- Btw, I would also like a link

Look at it this way: GW2 fails => disappointment on a truly massive  and unheard of scale among fans and mmorpgers alike => Anet dies. It is the last scenario the devs want.

So to me personally, it just shows how confident Anet is about their product to pull of these moves. It can only be a good thing :).

Originally posted by aesperus

Try looking at it from his perspective Dark... They did this for us (the fans). Most MMOs don't do this sort of thing anymore. They have pre-orders, and if you're lucky you can get into beta, but most people just get an invite to headstart / open beta if they shell out the extra dough.

What Anet did was give players the opportunity to sort of 'put their money where their mouth is'. By showing that htey support they game, players are given the ability to help out in beta. People aren't paying more than they would if they bought it on launch, they are just paying it earlier, to get to play earlier. Furthermore, while this is new for an MMO, on steam games have been doing that for a while.

 

 

Yeah, I love it when companies let customers throw money at them.  It really shows how much they care :D

Originally posted by Vaultar

 

Look at it this way: GW2 fails => disappointment on a truly massive  and unheard of scale among fans and mmorpgers alike => Anet dies. It is the last scenario the devs want.

So to me personally, it just shows how confident Anet is about their product to pull of these moves. It can only be a good thing :).

You have a fantastic imagination if you think one game would kill Anet.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by aesperus

Try looking at it from his perspective Dark... They did this for us (the fans). Most MMOs don't do this sort of thing anymore. They have pre-orders, and if you're lucky you can get into beta, but most people just get an invite to headstart / open beta if they shell out the extra dough.

What Anet did was give players the opportunity to sort of 'put their money where their mouth is'. By showing that htey support they game, players are given the ability to help out in beta. People aren't paying more than they would if they bought it on launch, they are just paying it earlier, to get to play earlier. Furthermore, while this is new for an MMO, on steam games have been doing that for a while.

 

 

 

Yeah, I love it when companies let customers throw money at them.  It really shows how much they care :D

This is why we can't have nice things.jpg

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Magnetia

Even the company is sick of this.

 

Ok, let me put this straight:

This whole "discussion" is kind of ridiculous. No one is forcing you to pre-purchase the game. If you don't want to - don't do it. Our BWEs will not be under NDA, so there will be a ton of information out there from players so you can make an informed decision if you want to buy the game or not. And then buy it on launch. Or pre-order. Or whatever you want to do. 

It is your choice to pick from the different offers.


You in this case as a general you, not a specific person.

-Martin Kerstein

Let's all put our conspiracy hats away until the BWE. I promise that I will not hold back on the bad of GW2.

Link please?

I wonder what the answers are.

He can be annoyed about it for as much as he wants but he should realize it has been their own decision to roll the game out they way they are doing. i.e. not in the most open and transparent way.

Try looking at it from his perspective Dark... They did this for us (the fans). Most MMOs don't do this sort of thing anymore. They have pre-orders, and if you're lucky you can get into beta, but most people just get an invite to headstart / open beta if they shell out the extra dough.

What Anet did was give players the opportunity to sort of 'put their money where their mouth is'. By showing that htey support they game, players are given the ability to help out in beta. People aren't paying more than they would if they bought it on launch, they are just paying it earlier, to get to play earlier. Furthermore, while this is new for an MMO, on steam games have been doing that for a while.

We are not entitled to get into beta at all, but people are acting like it. The phrase 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' comes to mind.

- Btw, I would also like a link

 

Apart from the bit where the horse in this case, isn't a gift for most people.

The "Giving people the option to put their money where their mouth is (or better: where their hype is)" is much more appropriate though.

Originally posted by Sephastus

I am utterly dumbfounded at what the hype has done to what would otherwise be a smart community. I will try to put things into a little perspective, and you can flame all you want afterwards, but please hear me out:

1) Pay to Beta test

In all honesty, how many times have most of us complained that once a game is released, it feels like you are paying to beta test it for them because of some irks or outright bugs we find in it... But in GW2 you are ACTUALLY paying in order to beta test it. It's not a PRIVILAGE, it's a service. And I don't know about you, but when I provide a service, I want to be paid, or otherwise compensated for it. But in this case, you are paying THEM in order to test their game out. Just pure ridiculousness...

2) Pay Full price BEFORE an NDA has been lifted

My word, who would do such a thing? Please... just think for a moment. Peer review is one of the best judges of an item, specially when there is no conflict of interest. News sites and some demo tests are NOT a good judgement of the final product. The websites that got access to the BETA want traffic, and are also going to attempt to showcase their own talents, either in writing or other aspects. This means they will very much romanticize what they experienced and even without realizing it will sugar coat the experience, which is clear conflict of interests. As for demos, these are the polished versions of a limited scope of the game. I can't tell you how many times I have enjoyed a demo much more than the actual full game. Lets review something: why would you hold something behind your back, and ask people to pay you in full before you give it to them? I will let you draw your own conclusion on that one (even if it does hurt some prides).

I was going to continue adding some more points, but instead of this becoming a warning, it would look like a rant. My sincere advice to my fellow players is to NOT purchase the game outright until the NDA is lifted and the beta crowds give you the real low-down on how things are. You will not loose out on anything since the beta chars get whiped, and you will enjoy your journey much better on launch day. Best case scenerio you will realize the game is not for you and would have saved some cash. Worst case scenario you loose out on some early gameplay, which would get deleted anyways.

This has been a public service announcement :-P

At this point in history of MMO development I would pay twice what I did yesterday to actually see a non WoW/SWTOR/RIFT/WAR/AoC/AION/Tera clone come out.

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by Vaultar

 

Look at it this way: GW2 fails => disappointment on a truly massive  and unheard of scale among fans and mmorpgers alike => Anet dies. It is the last scenario the devs want.

So to me personally, it just shows how confident Anet is about their product to pull of these moves. It can only be a good thing :).

You have a fantastic imagination if you think one game would kill Anet.

If it goes under like Tabula Rasa did, it would all but kill ArenaNet.

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by Vaultar

 

Look at it this way: GW2 fails => disappointment on a truly massive  and unheard of scale among fans and mmorpgers alike => Anet dies. It is the last scenario the devs want.

So to me personally, it just shows how confident Anet is about their product to pull of these moves. It can only be a good thing :).

You have a fantastic imagination if you think one game would kill Anet.

They themselves said they are betting their company on the success of GW2. Makes sense if you think about it. How many other games do they have in development currently? 

Originally posted by Naqaj

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by Vaultar

 

Look at it this way: GW2 fails => disappointment on a truly massive  and unheard of scale among fans and mmorpgers alike => Anet dies. It is the last scenario the devs want.

So to me personally, it just shows how confident Anet is about their product to pull of these moves. It can only be a good thing :).

You have a fantastic imagination if you think one game would kill Anet.

They themselves said they are betting their company on the success of GW2. Makes sense if you think about it. How many other games do they have in development currently? 

None. ArenaNet is not a big developer by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by Naqaj

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by Vaultar

 

Look at it this way: GW2 fails => disappointment on a truly massive  and unheard of scale among fans and mmorpgers alike => Anet dies. It is the last scenario the devs want.

So to me personally, it just shows how confident Anet is about their product to pull of these moves. It can only be a good thing :).

You have a fantastic imagination if you think one game would kill Anet.

They themselves said they are betting their company on the success of GW2. Makes sense if you think about it. How many other games do they have in development currently? 

Does this imply that their backs are against a wall and they will do aything to survive and therefor will pump out the best game the world has ever known?

Or does it imply that their backs are agasint a wall and they will do anything and therefor pump out some unholy union of professional design decisions mixed with too much player feedback?

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Magnetia

Even the company is sick of this.

 

Ok, let me put this straight:

This whole "discussion" is kind of ridiculous. No one is forcing you to pre-purchase the game. If you don't want to - don't do it. Our BWEs will not be under NDA, so there will be a ton of information out there from players so you can make an informed decision if you want to buy the game or not. And then buy it on launch. Or pre-order. Or whatever you want to do. 

It is your choice to pick from the different offers.


You in this case as a general you, not a specific person.

-Martin Kerstein

Let's all put our conspiracy hats away until the BWE. I promise that I will not hold back on the bad of GW2.

Link please?

I wonder what the answers are.

He can be annoyed about it for as much as he wants but he should realize it has been their own decision to roll the game out they way they are doing. i.e. not in the most open and transparent way.

Try looking at it from his perspective Dark... They did this for us (the fans). Most MMOs don't do this sort of thing anymore. They have pre-orders, and if you're lucky you can get into beta, but most people just get an invite to headstart / open beta if they shell out the extra dough.

What Anet did was give players the opportunity to sort of 'put their money where their mouth is'. By showing that htey support they game, players are given the ability to help out in beta. People aren't paying more than they would if they bought it on launch, they are just paying it earlier, to get to play earlier. Furthermore, while this is new for an MMO, on steam games have been doing that for a while.

We are not entitled to get into beta at all, but people are acting like it. The phrase 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' comes to mind.

- Btw, I would also like a link

 

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/gwj-mike-obrien-with-some-t34199p31.html

Here we are. It's a few posts down.

Edit - I should have been clear that this is just one employees feelings. It was wrong for me to say 'the company'.

Originally posted by Naqaj

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by Vaultar

 

Look at it this way: GW2 fails => disappointment on a truly massive  and unheard of scale among fans and mmorpgers alike => Anet dies. It is the last scenario the devs want.

So to me personally, it just shows how confident Anet is about their product to pull of these moves. It can only be a good thing :).

You have a fantastic imagination if you think one game would kill Anet.

They themselves said they are betting their company on the success of GW2. Makes sense if you think about it. How many other games do they have in development currently? 

Moot point. Why? Look at all the crappy F2P MMOs out there that still run. I'm not even an Anet or GW fan (or hater) and I can tell that there's no way that they'll put out a game that would fail so hard as to be shut down. We're not talking Sigil or some indie company where this is everything and they only get one shot or everything's kaput, we're talking about devs that have already put out a successful title with several successful expansions. Even if GW2 doesn't meet expectations, it'll still be fine. The common themepark MMORPG player's standards are in the toilet anyway.

Look at other AAA devs- has Funcom ever had a good launch? When was the last time people were frothing at the mouth with hype over a soon to be released SOE game?

Originally posted by Magnetia

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Magnetia

Even the company is sick of this.

 

Ok, let me put this straight:

This whole "discussion" is kind of ridiculous. No one is forcing you to pre-purchase the game. If you don't want to - don't do it. Our BWEs will not be under NDA, so there will be a ton of information out there from players so you can make an informed decision if you want to buy the game or not. And then buy it on launch. Or pre-order. Or whatever you want to do. 

It is your choice to pick from the different offers.


You in this case as a general you, not a specific person.

-Martin Kerstein

Let's all put our conspiracy hats away until the BWE. I promise that I will not hold back on the bad of GW2.

Link please?

I wonder what the answers are.

He can be annoyed about it for as much as he wants but he should realize it has been their own decision to roll the game out they way they are doing. i.e. not in the most open and transparent way.

Try looking at it from his perspective Dark... They did this for us (the fans). Most MMOs don't do this sort of thing anymore. They have pre-orders, and if you're lucky you can get into beta, but most people just get an invite to headstart / open beta if they shell out the extra dough.

What Anet did was give players the opportunity to sort of 'put their money where their mouth is'. By showing that htey support they game, players are given the ability to help out in beta. People aren't paying more than they would if they bought it on launch, they are just paying it earlier, to get to play earlier. Furthermore, while this is new for an MMO, on steam games have been doing that for a while.

We are not entitled to get into beta at all, but people are acting like it. The phrase 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' comes to mind.

- Btw, I would also like a link

 

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/gwj-mike-obrien-with-some-t34199p31.html

Here we are. It's a few posts down.

Edit - I should have been clear that this is just one employees feelings. It was wrong for me to say 'the company'.

Good to see there have been at least some critical replies on the next page of that discussion.

Originally posted by DarkPony

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/gwj-mike-obrien-with-some-t34199p31.html

Here we are. It's a few posts down.

Edit - I should have been clear that this is just one employees feelings. It was wrong for me to say 'the company'.

Good to see there have been at least some critical replies on the next page of that discussion. 

They're faring a little better than we are lol. 

Originally posted by Magnetia

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/gwj-mike-obrien-with-some-t34199p31.html

Here we are. It's a few posts down.

Edit - I should have been clear that this is just one employees feelings. It was wrong for me to say 'the company'.

Thanks a lot man.

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by Naqaj

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by Vaultar

 

Look at it this way: GW2 fails => disappointment on a truly massive  and unheard of scale among fans and mmorpgers alike => Anet dies. It is the last scenario the devs want.

So to me personally, it just shows how confident Anet is about their product to pull of these moves. It can only be a good thing :).

You have a fantastic imagination if you think one game would kill Anet.

They themselves said they are betting their company on the success of GW2. Makes sense if you think about it. How many other games do they have in development currently? 

Moot point. Why? Look at all the crappy F2P MMOs out there that still run. I'm not even an Anet or GW fan (or hater) and I can tell that there's no way that they'll put out a game that would fail so hard as to be shut down. We're not talking Sigil or some indie company where this is everything and they only get one shot or everything's kaput, we're talking about devs that have already put out a successful title with several successful expansions. Even if GW2 doesn't meet expectations, it'll still be fine. The common themepark MMORPG player's standards are in the toilet anyway.

 

Look at other AAA devs- has Funcom ever had a good launch? When was the last time people were frothing at the mouth with hype over a soon to be released SOE game?

Mate, there are a few obvious points you look over.

1) All those crappy f2p mmos out there are far more cheaper to produce than GW2. Add in a cash shop that 99% of f2p mmos are so heavily reliant on for their income (and hence with the majority having p2w items [no matter how they try to justify that the items are not p2w]) which guarantees many players are going to spend their money in the cash shop and you can how these crappy games can break-even and profit thereafter. It is a known fact that f2p games can actually cost more in the long run than those games with subs due to items in cash shop being so useful to give your character an upper edge (or a chance at the very least) that players need these items to stay competitive or stronger than others in the game. So you can see why these games live on.

2) Guild Wars is the ONLY ip that Anet has. It simply can't fail at any cost. Even if it doesn't meet expectations, it would still not be ok because remember that it is b2p and they won't get 1-3 months worth of subs from those who dislike the game (which btw can already generate a lot in revenue). You can mention GW2's cash shop but then it is kind of irrelevant when players aren't prepared to shell in real money for the game that they bought and that simply failed to live their expectations. Besides, gems can be transfered for gold so that is another factor to consider.

3) Funcom and other AAA companies live on due to their established history in mmo genre with p2p models or just an established history of successful games (such as the case with Bioware).

I know there are many believing it has red flags all over the decisions Anet done with prepurchases but again, at least to me, it just shows how confident Anet is with its product.

Originally posted by JesseBFox

Correction:

Quote from Martin Kerstein of Arena Net " Our BWEs will not be under NDA,"

Source: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/gwj-mike-obrien-with-some-t34199.html?p=1311579#post1311579

I heartily recommend anyone with doubts to wait on prepurchase until they can get their hands on the game or watch someone they know play it live. But it is a decision each person makes on their own.

nuff said. I personally plan on waiting to get a bit more insight about the cash shop. The game itself seem fine and tbh if it weren't for the cash shop i might have already pre-ordered a copy. Hopefully during atleast one of the BWEs they have a finalized cash shop  and I can make my final decision at that time.

Do we seriously need such ridicoulos posts in these forums 24/7 now?

Does the op even use his brain or gets himself informed at all?

I can only say the following:

- the game could be played and tested at gamescom 2010 (I was there) and gamescom 2011 (probably in other places too but I'll leave it to that)

- press beta weekends

- the 48 hours beta access registration people that got selected didn't had to pay anything.

- the standard edition without beta access and only one day headstart costs 49€ and the standard edition with beta access + 3 days headstart costs 49€. SAME PRICE means NO BETA EXTRA COSTS.

- tons of informations about the game were given through the developers, press and tons of videos on youtube and werelse through the years with real footage of all the editors, pve and pvp.

- the game looks for a game that stills does betas VERY polished and totally ready for the launch.

The main reason there are still betas is obviously because they are taking players feedback seriously and tweaking things to make the better.

To your information:

GW1 had some beta access with 3 days headstart packages for around 1 to 5€ (I dont remember the actual price but it was VERY low) for people that wanted to buy them before the game came out and it was totally worth it unlike tons of mmos that went a similar way and dissappointed only.

I'm not trying to hype here, I'm talking facts.

I was in the first preview of Guild Wars (or better yet a Alpha Test) back in 2004 and was amazed.

Was in all the betas, after that in the release and stayed there for 5+ years while I'm still checking in once in a while.

The game was innovative, brought a lot of new things into the world of mmos and was a very refreshing and entertaining experience.

GW2 heads the same way and I have seen and experienced the proof allover the places since 2010.

To me ANet never dissappointed in GW1 nor did so far in GW2.

They don't belong to the companies that say they care while they don't, they belong to the companies that DO CARE because they are fed up themselves to see the same old, same old in each and every mmo 24/7.

No one ever forced anyone to buy the game, it's everyones CHOICE to do so or not.

If you still feel "insecure" to buy because you think you have to "pay" for beta access (which is bullshit since its only a extra in ANets part), then STAY AWAY from the game for now, see how the experiences of the other players are after release and decide then if you wanna buy or not.

You obviously don't believe your own eyes if you watched all the videos as also the press people that previewed everything anyway.

Starting such topics left and right trying to find a "hidden evil" somewhere fills up the forums with unnessecary topics and flame wars upon stupid things only.

EDIT:

Corrected a few typos I found in the beginning of my post. ^_^