Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

Good luck convincing the majority of gamers im affraid where a long way from reaching that point.
I saw this pax panel and my hope was crushed hearing all these developers reapting the same crap we already have in last 10 years over and over again repeating what next guy next to him already said they have learned almost nothing.
Maybe ARENANET have with Guild Wars 2 i don't know yet, but we have to see and hopefully soon enough?

If you look at a topic where many love dungeon finders i affraid where long way from reaching that point:(

For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

Originally posted by Classicstar

For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Originally posted by Classicstar

For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

Sure you did.

Lech Walensa, an uneducated electrician from Poland, brought about the fall of the Soviet Union, through the power of boycotts and work stoppages. I mean if one average Lech can topple the might of the Soviet Union, you would think we could organize enough to influence a single industry.

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

I somewhat agree with you. But, if others are like me, they are always looking for that feeling they got when they first played their favorite MMO. I have been searching for it for about 2 years now and I buy everything on the market because of it.

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Originally posted by Classicstar

For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

GW2.  Its (and I think I am making a safe assumption here) going to be fairly high quality, fun to play, and going to have a lot of people playing it.  I think what a lot of people really want is an easily accessible game that they can play with friends.  The more friends you have in a game, the harder it is to find yourself quitting.

If the game population and community of a game reaches a certain point, and the population growth remains possitive, I think it would be hard to imagine GW2 NOT effecting the market for the kind of games that come out in the future (4 years from now).  Those are some fairly big ifs, but I anticipate my personal level of enjoyment to be high, as I have many friends eagerly awaiting GW2.

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Originally posted by Classicstar

For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

It is really fun and that is the only requirement a game needs for me, what else is there?

I really dont understand why so many people think devs are responsible and do not have any new ideas. Very few devs, with the exception of the indie developers have a final say so in what direction a project is actually going to go in the terms many of you speak.

They "Develop" what ever the investor agrees to pay for. Albeit they have control the technical aspect of what is being developed, they do not have as much control on what the final product is destined to be. They develop a product that is agreed on and signed off on by the people who are funding the project. Hence the multiple logos for multiple companies on games. X company developed it, X company paid for it. The payng company has more of a say in what direction it will go than the company who developed it because they are technically the grunt in the situation, while the investor is the boss.

The boss is not a gamer, they are just businessmen looking at spreadsheets of whats hot and whats not.

If the majority all stopped playing the latest and greatest and all started playing EVEyou would probably see more EVE clones. They dont though, because the majority of the playerbase likes these themeparks. That is fact. They accomodate the busy casual player who wants to sit down with little or no fuss. The hardcore gamer is the minority target. They try to create games now that reach the hardcore gamer and the casual gamer alike. Simply because its a good business idea. Whats garbage to one is gold to another. Right now, this models is gold.

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

They do listen and make good MMOs. WOW is great and many people give blizz lots of money over the years.

Plus, MOST MMO players do not buy ANY titles (crap or great). They play for free (and this is backed up by research showing that most MMO players do not pay).

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

 

They do listen and make good MMOs. WOW is great and many people give blizz lots of money over the years.

Plus, MOST MMO players do not buy ANY titles (crap or great). They play for free (and this is backed up by research showing that most MMO players do not pay).

Do you have proof of this?

The game you referenced has millions upon millions of subscribers, that's not even taking into account anyone that's ever bought WoW before.

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

Devs DO listen. But devs don't make decisions, devs implement what business people tell them. Business people look at what sells. And the players buy, in droves, more than ever before.

Players buy games that have an NDA, have no announced release date, have had no open beta, have a cash shop. Players buy it by the 10000s and are tripping over their feet to announce that they bought the game on these very forums. :)

It's like asking junkies to stop buying crappy cut-down drugs. 

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Originally posted by Classicstar

For now i give Arenanet a change to proof me wrong. And also have maybe a littlebit hope with bethesda with may annoucement of maybe a Elder scroll MMO and hopefully a sandbox.

Well a few very good MMOs do exist.  EvE online is really really good.

To be honest though I dont think GW2 is gonna change the market... Ive played it and yes it was really fun, but nothing to get as excited about as people say. Alot of the gameplay is the same as Gw1.

Its more fo something you hop min for an hour or two and logg off and find something else to do.

However if people followed your advice EvE would have never had existed, it was crap on release.

Originally posted by Zekiah

It's like asking junkies to stop buying crappy cut-down drugs. 

Originally posted by Dissolution

Originally posted by Zekiah

It's like asking junkies to stop buying crappy cut-down drugs. 

 

LOL. So, Ive been rewatching seasons of "The Wire" and its funny you say that. They were just talking about what you do when you have a shitty product. You rename it and put it in a new container and the fiends will come running back.

Lol yep.

Originally posted by Decadentia

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

 

They do listen and make good MMOs. WOW is great and many people give blizz lots of money over the years.

Plus, MOST MMO players do not buy ANY titles (crap or great). They play for free (and this is backed up by research showing that most MMO players do not pay).

Do you have proof of this?

The game you referenced has millions upon millions of subscribers, that's not even taking into account anyone that's ever bought WoW before.

Related statistics have been posted MANY TIMES before. Am i the only one here who knows how to google?

(copy from an old post .. feel free to post other more updated research).

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27581/Study_US_Gamers_Spent_38_Billion_On_MMOs_in_2009.php

total MMO players in the US: 46M

total MMO players that never pay anything: 25M ~ 54%

Originally posted by Dissolution

Originally posted by Zekiah

It's like asking junkies to stop buying crappy cut-down drugs. 

 

LOL. So, Ive been rewatching seasons of "The Wire" and its funny you say that. They were just talking about what you do when you have a shitty product. You rename it and put it in a new container and the fiends will come running back.

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Then Devs would listen and make a good MMO. Rather than something that makes them some money for about 3 or 4 months then subsides.

True, problem can unfortunately be summarized in two points:

1. people don't really vote with their wallets and instead prefer to just bitch about things
2. they want to both have the cake and eat the cake