In all honesty, how many times have most of us complained that once a game is released, it feels like you are paying to beta test it for them because of some irks or outright bugs we find in it... But in GW2 you are ACTUALLY paying in order to beta test it. It's not a PRIVILAGE, it's a service. And I don't know about you, but when I provide a service, I want to be paid, or otherwise compensated for it. But in this case, you are paying THEM in order to test their game out. Just pure ridiculousness...

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Sephastus

Please... just think for a moment. Peer review is one of the best judges of an item, specially when there is no conflict of interest. News sites and some demo tests are NOT a good judgement of the final product.

 

'Peer reviews' on today's internet are as worthless as any game site review, what with all the professional shilling and reputation management that exists.

For someone who is so preachy to others on being clever, I am suprised you didn't know that.

 

So are you saying that if a few hundred thousand people like something, while only a few hundred dislike it, that it is a failed product that you will not like? Chances are you will like it as well.

Forgive me if I sounded preachy, but you sound mighty "Higher than though" with your "I am surprised you didn't know that" comment. Isn't that a bigger sin. :-P

As for the post about my post count, I scoured these forums for years before I made an account, and I mostly read, not comment. Certain things, however, just push my buttons.

It's a small amount of money, if people have the faith to pre-order despite the NDA being up and no launch date set, more power to them, not like there's much on the line to lose, and they can always cancel.

Are you guys for real?  This game only costs four months of WoW play time.

Think what you could do during that four months!  You could play hundreds of AV matches where you would enjoy hours of reporting botters...or you could run around stormwind pulling out your various mounts...or you could join a pug raid and wipe 20 times on the first boss because everyone is in blue pvp gear....so much fun to be had for your $60 instead of buying GW2.

(I bought two copies of DE today :-) )

Originally posted by asrlohz

@Thane Well, let's be fair, you've only made 21 more posts / year than him.

Whilst I am honestly not in a position to argue here considering my low posting rate I would still like to add that you aren't either. However this is kind of irrelevant to the matter so I'll just throw in my opinion about the beta testing.

 

If you want to play GW2 so bad that you'd put up with some bugs and poor graphics (The latest beta did have high settings but the previous ones didn't) I'd say it's quite alright. And it would in any case be better of them to just have press playing their game right now so why would they allow random people who'd most likely just complain about the games flaws because they didn't realise that the game isn't complete. But if these regular people suddenly started paying for it?

Not that everyone would complain, but point is, money is money and if everyone is desperate enough to play a semi-finished game why not make some money out of it. You're not REQUIRED to send in bug reports anyhow.

point being, i am playing mmos for ages now, and every release with preorder it's the same "Mimimimimi".

why do people care how OTHERS spend their money? if we spend it, we obviously have enough to do so ^^

where is the problem??

people went from "i don't like it, i don't play it" over "i don't like it, but my friends do, so i play it" straight to "iu don't like it! YOU MUST NOT LIKE IT EITHER!"

i'll never understand that.

uh and betas changed over the years.

after noticing "open beta" phases with like 10k or 100k people to find bugs did not really work out (since everyone thought it's a preview and no "beta"), devs changed their betas abit lately. they take "internal" testers, have testphases more closed and do a "public" / preorder phase just like everyone expected it, a preview phase for potential costumers.

it's nice that NOW everyone claims to be the perfect beta tester, but seriously... 80% did never ever file a bug report :)

1) Pay to Beta test

I'm paying to play the game.  Being allowed to fool around in the beta is a perq for paying early.  I already know I'm buying the game.

2) Pay Full price BEFORE an NDA has been lifted

I know more about this game, seen more gameplay and read more material than any game I've ever purchased before.  The NDA, which only applies to those accepted into the official beta test, does not frighten me.  Journalists and others who have had the opportunity to play the game over the last couple of years are exempt, and they have had plenty to share with us.

Your fearmongering will only speak to those who already agree with you.  You won't be changing any minds because everyone has had more than enough information already to make a decision.  You are introducing nothing new.

Originally posted by Nasa

Originally posted by Sephastus

Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

And some of us have been burned, but know enough to realize that ArenaNet ain't Funcom.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Sephastus

Please... just think for a moment. Peer review is one of the best judges of an item, specially when there is no conflict of interest. News sites and some demo tests are NOT a good judgement of the final product.

 

'Peer reviews' on today's internet are as worthless as any game site review, what with all the professional shilling and reputation management that exists.

For someone who is so preachy to others on being clever, I am suprised you didn't know that.

 

Those obvious shills get quickly picked apart by other people playing the game.

I think the OP's pretty dead on in his assessment.

A good, long term player impression tells you so much more. Let alone a whole slew of them.

No matter how good the game looks to you, these practices are iffy at best. Some people pulling in examples of similar roll-outs from other companies don't change a thing to that.

Actually this community has been really vocal in the past about games with a "pay2beta" (or at least advertising guaranteed beta access for payers), late NDA drops, lack of full disclosure, lack of release dates, etc. But somehow, ... because its GW2, a lot of people object to any kind of skepticism in this regard and show a remarkable creativity in reasoning their way out of it.

Ah well ... It's what very high expectations do to you I guess.

I think the chance that you will get in atleast ONE of the beta weekends without paying a single dime are pretty big.

Not to mention that you can always cancel pre-orders

Several things to keep in mind.........

- You don't HAVE to pre-purchase to participate in BETA events

- There has been no "end date" set for pre-purchase rewards, so if you want  the 3 day head start but feel paying now is too early, just wait until closer to release

- Those of us wishing to support a company we have built a trusting relationship with over the course of several years are willing to pay now to ensure that there is no pressure to release an unfinished product due cash flow. They know this and are simply allowing people who already wish to help, to do so in BETA testing as well.

I for one, intend to send bug reports because I want a successful game. I'm sure anyone else who has already invested money in the game would feel the same. Who better to test it?

Now is not the time to try and have a discussion with the community no matter how rational you may come across.

Wait 3 months after release and when enough people have played the game extensively.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Originally posted by Kwintpod

Not to mention that you can always cancel pre-orders

Tho I do believe to get "guaranteed" beta weekend access you have to "pre-purchase" which is a slightly different animal than a pre-order.

Part of the FAQ even mentioned that if you were pre-ordering a phsyical copy the approved retailers could convert it to a "pre-purchase".

Tho maybe I misunderstood something.   You can obviously create a new Anet account and do a backcharge even with a pre-purchase (depending on your bank) .. obviously the account would be banned and that credit card may be blocked for future purchases from them... but you can do that I guess.

If regular pre-orders get guaranteed access.. then I just read the FAQ wrong.. which is probably likely.

Just wanted to write my wall for the day.

*.*

*edit*   For reference what I was talking about:

Is Pre-Purchase the only way to get into Guild Wars 2 Beta Weekend Events?

Pre-Purchase is the only guaranteed way to get into all Beta Weekend Events. We will also be running promotions for access to individual Beta Weekend Events.

That's from their FAQ.   So as far as I understand simply pre-ordering would give you no more chance to get into a beta weekend.. than simply applying for beta.

I thought the only difference between pre-purchase and order was the three days headstart, seems I was wrong.

I'm going to also have to point out the poster doesn't seem to address the issue of 'Hobbiest' in this question. In particular, if we're going to discuss Collector's Editions especially. A lot of people enjoy buying Collector's Editions, but not for the game -- for the goodies. But do they put these goodies on display and say, "Look at me, I'm an awesome fanboy"? -- probably a select few. A lot of them actually, at least the many ones I've spoken to say pretty much the same things.

"Collector's Editions are an investment."

Investment?

Well yes. People buy full box sets of games and then toss them into storage for a year. Sort of like buying bonds. After about of a year or more, they gauge the success of the game and turn around and try to re-sale the Collector's Edition at an exploded price. Potentially profitted by as much as 10times their buying price.

People have gauged this based on the previous Collector's Editions, which have managed to sell in the thousands.

Is the pre-purchase price different from the price of the game at launch?

If not, how does that equate to "paying for beta"? I don't see it - unless of course you've accounted for inflation and possible interest gains, had you waited to buy the game at launch but are we that pedantic?

Its only a trap if the company "setting" it intends to do the buyer harm.

If they intended to close the game 3 months after release, for example, then it would be a trap.

Far as I know, their intentions are to give people a game they think will be good. If that turns out not to be the case, then it was just an accident, not a trap.

Anyone unsure should wait until the game is released, it is as simple as that.

And paying to beta tests are not something new. Mortal online did the same thing, STO even sold life time subs for loads of money before launch.

Heck, Blizzard will "give" you Diablo 3 if you sign up for a year of Wow.

I have bought it myself already (I am a huge fan of GW1) but I wouldn't recommend anyone else who isn't 100% sold to do the same.

I'm quite fascinated with GW2 so far but I'm not buying it until the NDA is fully lifted, release date is announced and a comprehensive list of CS items is available. Simple common sense dictates that I should know at least that much before making any decision. Caveat emptor.

Originally posted by komobo

Is the pre-purchase price different from the price of the game at launch?

If not, how does that equate to "paying for beta"? I don't see it - unless of course you've accounted for inflation and possible interest gains, had you waited to buy the game at launch but are we that pedantic?

I am going to sell you a car. its a great car, and it will run well for a long time. It just has no rear window. Don't worry though, you wont notice anything as the car is still being built and the window will be in by its intended sell date. But you can get in the car and drive it now, then bring it back, we put in the rear window and you are set.

Paying up front for a product that is in beta and under NDA sounds just as ridiculous. But don't worry, others have already made some good points. They claim that because there is enough data they are making an informed desicion. Personally, I want to see what server stability will look like with a real load, as well as the effects of lag spikes and such on action combat. In ideal conditions it seems great... but we are not in an ideal world.