I wanted to see if there is anyone out there that carries my beliefs about how I wish MMO's were vs how they are today. Here are my opinions.

1) The AAA Themeparks of today carry no risk. You die and you respawn with all your inventory, over, and over, again.

2) Crafting systems should be deep. I dont want a system of having mats in your bag and hit 'create'. I want to mine metal, crush/wash the rocks. Put it in a furnace with a catalyst. etc. And maybe if I dont get killed during the process I will make my set of armor or whatnot.

3) I feel graphics of todays most popular MMO's are cartoony. I love realism, and hate flash and over-coloring, and overexaggeration of weapons, shoulderpads, etc.

4) I get frusterated by MMO developers who continue pushing out the same kind of product with a new gimmick here and there. Because I know that if they just put the PC focus-group crap aside and focused on making a detailed sandbox with all the proper tools that it would be truly epic.

5) RMT's ruin the competiveness in the world, even if its just looking cool because that can be a competition in itself.

6) Instances are retarded. Just open them up and allow other players to attack you in the dungeon you are in. Also dont make a beginning and end to the dungeon- there doesnt need to be that 100% of the time(think EQ1's Guk or even Blackrock Mtn)

7) Companions ruin the challenge. Not every class or skill build doesnt have to be able to solo as well as the other.

8) Players create a level 1 and they are geared already---rediculous. I want underwear or nothing on and a stick. I guess its time to gather materials so I can craft some pants and gather food or else I will go hungry or starve.

---ETC (Could carry this list on and on, and on)

Anyone out there like me? Are we slowing shrinking in number?

PS- A little background on me is I started with EQ1 in 99 and have played many themeparks and sandboxes and the only games that seem challenging and fun because of fantasy setting to me now is Mortal Online and Darkfall.

Money is king and most players are to casual for almost everything on your list.  less casuals = less money.

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Originally posted by xDayx
PS- A little background on me is I started with EQ1 in 99 and have played many themeparks and sandboxes and the only games that seem challenging and fun because of fantasy setting to me now is Mortal Online and Darkfall.

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If you're just now feeling like a minority i wonder where you've been the last 7-8 years.

Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

Originally posted by Banquetto

 

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Originally posted by xDayx
PS- A little background on me is I started with EQ1 in 99 and have played many themeparks and sandboxes and the only games that seem challenging and fun because of fantasy setting to me now is Mortal Online and Darkfall.

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So, are you currently playing Mortal Online and/or Darkfall? If so, what's the problem? Different games for different tastes, and you've got a couple that cater to your taste.

 

No problem, Just feeling like there isnt many people out there like myself and wanted to guage the community.

Originally posted by DannyGlover

Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

because they know that game won't be released. Everything that sounds good on paper either fades into nothingness or arrives with so many flaws it becomes unplayable anyways.

Originally posted by DannyGlover

Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

That's cool.   Just because folks play GW2 doesn't mean they won't play Repop as well. 

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Originally posted by Aori

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Originally posted by DannyGlover
Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

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because they know that game won't be released. Everything that sounds good on paper either fades into nothingness or arrives with so many flaws it becomes unplayable anyways.

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Originally posted by DannyGlover

 

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Originally posted by Aori

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Originally posted by DannyGlover
Its sad because today, we got an amazing video of The Repopulation where you can make a city in a persistant world. And people are falling over themselves about prepurchasing the latest themepark shallow combat fest.

---

because they know that game won't be released. Everything that sounds good on paper either fades into nothingness or arrives with so many flaws it becomes unplayable anyways.

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awww cynicism prevails :(

 

Pssh well how many times has your carrot on a stick had razor blades in it? -.-

1. Most players enjoy challenge (suitable to their skills) but dislike risk.  That's always been true.

2. Crafting being deep is an alright request, although honestly I'm fine with crafting not being a full-on game unto itself as long as the core gameplay is enjoyable.  I'm also fine with pure crafting games.  The mix of game elements must be deep, but that doesn't necessarily mean crafting must always be deep.

3. I don't mind art styles either way.  Anime, realistic, stylized, it's all the same to me as long as it's created with skill and soul.

4. Certainly a developer willing to risk millions on experimenting with new types of core gameplay is the path to being the next WOW...but it's a path strewn with a lot of failed games (because innovating new core gameplay isn't going to magically be awesome; it's very likely to suck, actually.)

5. While I've enjoyed having a cool character in a game, I can't say that it's ever bothered me for a game to sell cosmetic items. That's not really the important form of competition in games.  Players enjoy assembling the perfect outfit to express themselves, but the OP is the first person I've ever heard criticize the selling of cosmetic items because usually you can still look pretty damn awesome without paying extra.

6. Certainly there are ways to solve the many problems with world gameplay, but instanced gameplay just happens to be a very powerful and very easy solution.  I've never played an open world dungeon that wasn't soulless, tedious, and downright boring.

7. Definitely don't see the issue with giving everyone the option to solo.  ToR's issue was the lack of reward or convenience around grouping more than it was about companions.  If grouping was convenient and rewarding, I would've grouped til max level.  But it was incredibly inconvenient to find a group and the act of grouping was also inconvenient (due to conversations.)

8. ...alright that's just weird.  Even a shit-covered peasant has robes (and shit.)

I always thought people complain on forum are the minority.  The majority are actaully playing instead of complaining.

Originally posted by laokoko

I always thought people complain on forum are the minority.  The majority are actaully playing instead of complaining.

Tell that to Tabula Resa and Matrix Online.... oh wait you can't

To the OP

Either get with the times or realize your genre has been destroyed. Then find yourself another hobby

oh please, you have over 300 post, you know damn well what the people on this forum think

Originally posted by xDayx

I wanted to see if there is anyone out there that carries my beliefs about how I wish MMO's were vs how they are today.

You have several hundred posts on this forum, and you're trying to tell me you don't already know the answer to your question?

Just carry on playing MO and darkfall and have fun.. this is what im doing and ignoring all the recent MMOs and ones that are abotu to be released..

I am having a blast in MO at the moment and dont see myself playing anything else, I will check out the secret world but thats the only MMORPG this year that im a tony bit interested in.

Originally posted by Axehilt

1. Most players enjoy challenge (suitable to their skills) but dislike risk.  That's always been true.

2. Crafting being deep is an alright request, although honestly I'm fine with crafting not being a full-on game unto itself as long as the core gameplay is enjoyable.  I'm also fine with pure crafting games.  The mix of game elements must be deep, but that doesn't necessarily mean crafting must always be deep.

3. I don't mind art styles either way.  Anime, realistic, stylized, it's all the same to me as long as it's created with skill and soul.

4. Certainly a developer willing to risk millions on experimenting with new types of core gameplay is the path to being the next WOW...but it's a path strewn with a lot of failed games (because innovating new core gameplay isn't going to magically be awesome; it's very likely to suck, actually.)

5. While I've enjoyed having a cool character in a game, I can't say that it's ever bothered me for a game to sell cosmetic items. That's not really the important form of competition in games.  Players enjoy assembling the perfect outfit to express themselves, but the OP is the first person I've ever heard criticize the selling of cosmetic items because usually you can still look pretty damn awesome without paying extra.

6. Certainly there are ways to solve the many problems with world gameplay, but instanced gameplay just happens to be a very powerful and very easy solution.  I've never played an open world dungeon that wasn't soulless, tedious, and downright boring.

7. Definitely don't see the issue with giving everyone the option to solo.  ToR's issue was the lack of reward or convenience around grouping more than it was about companions.  If grouping was convenient and rewarding, I would've grouped til max level.  But it was incredibly inconvenient to find a group and the act of grouping was also inconvenient (due to conversations.)

8. ...alright that's just weird.  Even a shit-covered peasant has robes (and shit.)

Thank you for typing all this out for me. I feel exactly the same. Plus it came out far more kindly than I probably would have put it.

While I do believe there are many fundamental issues with the core AAA mechanics (themepartks), the OP's post is a perfect itemization things nostalgists see as the 'the end of good games,' that are actually substantial improvements in a vast majority of games.

Ten years from now the genre will be different, and the old timers will be different. We'll have a bunch of people saying stuff like "Why aren't games made like WoW anymore!?!? These new players just don't get it."

It's actually about you not getting it. Your idea of a good game became cemented based off flawed mechanics. There is a market for you and you deserve to have games that cater to yoru wishes, but you are not who gets to determine where this genre goes.

You are not alone, plenty like you here.

While I myself don´t agree with you 100% it is still over 75% and that should be close enough....

I for one thing don´t see why you want people running around in their underwear, peasant clothes or similar would make sense but underwear? AoC start out that way though...

I don´t exactly like the death penalty either, losing gear or XP just add more grinding. Locking you out of your character for a while would be better (anywhere from 5 minutes to a day depending on how the game is made).

As for realistic or cartoony graphics that is just a matter of opinion, I don´t care either way if it is well made.

Crafting, instances, RMT and companions do suck.

Companions is fine if you play a pet class though, a knight can have a squire if the game is balanced for it just like a ranger can have a tiger. And you can surely add customization, dialogue and whatsnot for a companion like that as long as the rest of us can choose to have a none pet class without that junk and it is balanced.

Originally posted by Sythion

Originally posted by Axehilt

1. Most players enjoy challenge (suitable to their skills) but dislike risk.  That's always been true.

2. Crafting being deep is an alright request, although honestly I'm fine with crafting not being a full-on game unto itself as long as the core gameplay is enjoyable.  I'm also fine with pure crafting games.  The mix of game elements must be deep, but that doesn't necessarily mean crafting must always be deep.

3. I don't mind art styles either way.  Anime, realistic, stylized, it's all the same to me as long as it's created with skill and soul.

4. Certainly a developer willing to risk millions on experimenting with new types of core gameplay is the path to being the next WOW...but it's a path strewn with a lot of failed games (because innovating new core gameplay isn't going to magically be awesome; it's very likely to suck, actually.)

5. While I've enjoyed having a cool character in a game, I can't say that it's ever bothered me for a game to sell cosmetic items. That's not really the important form of competition in games.  Players enjoy assembling the perfect outfit to express themselves, but the OP is the first person I've ever heard criticize the selling of cosmetic items because usually you can still look pretty damn awesome without paying extra.

6. Certainly there are ways to solve the many problems with world gameplay, but instanced gameplay just happens to be a very powerful and very easy solution.  I've never played an open world dungeon that wasn't soulless, tedious, and downright boring.

7. Definitely don't see the issue with giving everyone the option to solo.  ToR's issue was the lack of reward or convenience around grouping more than it was about companions.  If grouping was convenient and rewarding, I would've grouped til max level.  But it was incredibly inconvenient to find a group and the act of grouping was also inconvenient (due to conversations.)

8. ...alright that's just weird.  Even a shit-covered peasant has robes (and shit.)

Thank you for typing all this out for me. I feel exactly the same. Plus it came out far more kindly than I probably would have put it.

While I do believe there are many fundamental issues with the core AAA mechanics (themepartks), the OP's post is a perfect itemization things nostalgists see as the 'the end of good games,' that are actually substantial improvements in a vast majority of games.  Improvements being entirely subjective, more accurate to say substanitally more popular, which isn't necessarily the same thing.

Ten years from now the genre will be different, and the old timers will be different. We'll have a bunch of people saying stuff like "Why aren't games made like WoW anymore!?!? These new players just don't get it."

Naw, I'm betting we'll see a whole lot of "goodbye and good riddance"

It's actually about you not getting it. Your idea of a good game became cemented based off flawed mechanics. There is a market for you and you deserve to have games that cater to yoru wishes, but you are not who gets to determine where this genre goes. Again you confused unpopular with the term flawed.  Obviously the market for the current design is vast, and as is so often proven the masses frequently don't recognize what is good for them.

Unfortunately the train left the station a long time ago on many of the ideas the OP is looking for.  FFA PVP with high risk/reward was never popular and never will be, most folks aren't looking for that sort of challenge in their MMO's. (not even me). Same with detailed crafting, SWG was the pinnacle which will likely never be attempted again in a major title, just not popular enough.

There is however probably room for more variety, and as more folks tire of standard theme park mechanics developers will experiment with alternate ideas what will likely bring a bit more variety but never take us to days goneby.

Best thing to do is enjoy what is good about each new title, overlook the bad, and stop playing when they are no longer fun anymore.  It's what I do these days and results in at least 2-3 months of fun in most titles which is a better value than most single player games these days.