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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Am I the only one who wanted an actual 4E D&D game out of Neverwinter?

19 posts found
  Fion

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OP  4/09/12 7:15:24 PM#1

I'm so disappointed with this PAX East reveal. When this game was announced it was to be a true 4th edition D&D game. The FIRST 'true' 4th edition game. We had so many fantastic  1st, 2nd and 3rd edition PC games over the year, some more accurate than others but they all at least resemble the PnP game. But for some reason, the edition of D&D that is perhaps most easy to adapt to a game, from the clearly laid out rules to the heavily tactical combat (it's what 4e does right after all).

Instead we get these blasted action RPGs where the only thing that resembles D&D are the names of the classes and the locations. Everything else has completely been changed. The combat is utterly different, the games mechanics are completely changed.

Some might say 'it's because 'classic' style RPGs just don't sell anymore'. But that is simply not true. Dragon Age: Origin, perhaps the last of the 'classic western RPG' has sold more than any other Bioware game, up to 5 million as of last count. That is nearly TWICE sales of any other game they've ever made.

So come on game developers. Quit screwing around with D&D and make a proper 4th edition game. The LAST thing we need is yet another 'you press a button and something awesome happens' action-RPG. Let alone a damn hackneyed MMO!

  Yuui

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Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

4/09/12 7:45:59 PM#2


Originally posted by Fion
I'm so disappointed with this PAX East reveal. When this game was announced it was to be a true 4th edition D&D game. The FIRST 'true' 4th edition game. We had so many fantastic  1st, 2nd and 3rd edition PC games over the year, some more accurate than others but they all at least resemble the PnP game. But for some reason, the edition of D&D that is perhaps most easy to adapt to a game, from the clearly laid out rules to the heavily tactical combat (it's what 4e does right after all).
Instead we get these blasted action RPGs where the only thing that resembles D&D are the names of the classes and the locations. Everything else has completely been changed. The combat is utterly different, the games mechanics are completely changed.
Some might say 'it's because 'classic' style RPGs just don't sell anymore'. But that is simply not true. Dragon Age: Origin, perhaps the last of the 'classic western RPG' has sold more than any other Bioware game, up to 5 million as of last count. That is nearly TWICE sales of any other game they've ever made.
So come on game developers. Quit screwing around with D&D and make a proper 4th edition game. The LAST thing we need is yet another 'you press a button and something awesome happens' action-RPG. Let alone a damn hackneyed MMO!

the 4th edition combat and skill systems seem to be in place.

The whole DM and dungeon designing seems to be in place.

Levels,while spread out through more, seem to be exactly like in 4th ed.

Everything ELse we do not know enough to judge, but so far it seems pretty damn faithful.

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  HeroEvermore

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4/09/12 8:03:10 PM#3

im not very knowledgable in the DnD pen and paper aspect of what you are refering to.

I just wanted to say i hope you do like the game because i think it looks amazing!

Hero Evermore
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  MadDemon64

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6/06/12 11:32:28 AM#4

Sadly, the conversion of a game from one medium to another is never going to be exact.  There will always be something missing, changed, or added.

So far, we have several 4E races (odds are others will be released eventually, probably in the cash shop), and given my experience with D&D, that's about all I know about 4E D&D.

Maybe its the fact that I am not an avid player of 4E D&D, but as long as they have the races and abilities, it will be enough for me.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Shroom_Mage

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6/07/12 2:20:34 AM#5


Originally posted by MadDemon64
Sadly, the conversion of a game from one medium to another is never going to be exact.  There will always be something missing, changed, or added.

So far, we have several 4E races (odds are others will be released eventually, probably in the cash shop), and given my experience with D&D, that's about all I know about 4E D&D.

Maybe its the fact that I am not an avid player of 4E D&D, but as long as they have the races and abilities, it will be enough for me.


The thing about 4e is that it looks like it was designed to be a video game. The way they formatted the rules, the way they balanced the classes, the precise wording of the powers; it's all ready and waiting to be coded.

Any edition of D&D could be programmed. Look at old translations like Pool of Radiance. The rules are almost verbatim. The things that don't translate well, such as spells or abilities that have unusual effects requiring the judgement of a DM, are almost completely absent from 4e. Even alignment no longer has any effect on gameplay.

When I looked at 4e, my very first thought was how well it would translate into video game form. It's very disappointing that there has never been a single game to actually use its rules.

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  Fion

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OP  6/07/12 3:01:24 PM#6
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

 


Originally posted by MadDemon64
Sadly, the conversion of a game from one medium to another is never going to be exact.  There will always be something missing, changed, or added.

 

So far, we have several 4E races (odds are others will be released eventually, probably in the cash shop), and given my experience with D&D, that's about all I know about 4E D&D.

Maybe its the fact that I am not an avid player of 4E D&D, but as long as they have the races and abilities, it will be enough for me.


 

The thing about 4e is that it looks like it was designed to be a video game. The way they formatted the rules, the way they balanced the classes, the precise wording of the powers; it's all ready and waiting to be coded.

Any edition of D&D could be programmed. Look at old translations like Pool of Radiance. The rules are almost verbatim. The things that don't translate well, such as spells or abilities that have unusual effects requiring the judgement of a DM, are almost completely absent from 4e. Even alignment no longer has any effect on gameplay.

When I looked at 4e, my very first thought was how well it would translate into video game form. It's very disappointing that there has never been a single game to actually use its rules.

 

Exactly. One thing the 4e designers did an amazing job on compared to previous editions was the codifying of the games rules. Everything is clear and concise and would translate better to a video game easier and more accurately than any previous edition.

With this in mind you can only question why no game company has seen this and tried to make a 4e based RPG. We do have two, one in the works and one being made now but the one released so poorly represents 4e that it might as well not even be D&D and the other was essentailly scrapped and turned into another D&D MMOG.

It's frankly pathetic.

  UngoHumungo

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6/07/12 3:43:42 PM#7

I'm not a huge fan of 4e rulle I much prefer 3.5, I just kinda felt everything in 4e got dwarfed down, I loathe the idea of minion status monsters, it just drone on to be glory seekers instead of a group of adventurers overcoming perilous odds to defeat an all encompassing power that haunts the world.  Not a bunch of superheros nuking minions to get to the inevitable  boss encounter of an actual monster....and the classes  seem to break the mold of how I envision each class, not in a good way though.  I find fourth edition as just another way to sell another set of books...

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  jtcgs

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Posts: 1843

6/07/12 3:47:09 PM#8

I personally dont care about the rule set as much as I care about whatever they do put in the game being done well enough to keep the game exciting...and even more so, that the player design tools are enough to make quality content with.

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  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16407

6/07/12 3:49:37 PM#9

Nah, 4th edition just ain't good enough.

If I had to choose I would prefered if it had Pathfinders system (which funny enough the Pathfinder MMO wont have), it is a lot more flexible and fun than both 3rd and 4th.

I played all the editions and 4th is the one I like least.

  jessie360

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/11
Posts: 67

6/07/12 3:51:29 PM#10

I certainly did not want it based on 4th Edition.  I prefer the Pathfinder rule set.  Either way, they don't translate easily into game space.

  AlBQuirky

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7/31/12 11:42:14 PM#11

[edit]
oops... did not mean to necro the thread :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Ramadar

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/19/04
Posts: 166

8/07/12 9:49:25 PM#12
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

 


Originally posted by MadDemon64
Sadly, the conversion of a game from one medium to another is never going to be exact.  There will always be something missing, changed, or added.

 

So far, we have several 4E races (odds are others will be released eventually, probably in the cash shop), and given my experience with D&D, that's about all I know about 4E D&D.

Maybe its the fact that I am not an avid player of 4E D&D, but as long as they have the races and abilities, it will be enough for me.


 

The thing about 4e is that it looks like it was designed to be a video game. The way they formatted the rules, the way they balanced the classes, the precise wording of the powers; it's all ready and waiting to be coded.

Any edition of D&D could be programmed. Look at old translations like Pool of Radiance. The rules are almost verbatim. The things that don't translate well, such as spells or abilities that have unusual effects requiring the judgement of a DM, are almost completely absent from 4e. Even alignment no longer has any effect on gameplay.

When I looked at 4e, my very first thought was how well it would translate into video game form. It's very disappointing that there has never been a single game to actually use its rules.

I thought in the same way aswell and my first thought when I saw Neverwinter was "4E D&D is getting an MMO " then I saw who's developing and knew "nope ain't gonna happen".

Evil will always triumph because good is dumb....

  MadDemon64

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Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1064

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

8/09/12 10:09:59 AM#13

It just occured to me that we shouldn't judge Neverwinter as a video game adaptation of a D&D game, but my its own merits.  If all of the mechanics, story writing, etc. were kept the same, and everything else (races, classes, NPCs, mobs, locations, spells, etc.) was changed so that it wasn't taking place in the D&D universe, would it hold up?  Would Neverwinter still be a good game if it didn't have the D&D license?

Thats what we should be asking.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  blognorg

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Joined: 2/25/11
Posts: 650

8/10/12 5:02:16 AM#14
4th edition sucks, anyway. They should just use Pathfinder.
  MadDemon64

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Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1064

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

8/10/12 6:14:48 AM#15
Originally posted by blognorg
4th edition sucks, anyway. They should just use Pathfinder.

Think they are too far into development to do that (in fact, if what I heard was true, they had just about finished their original design just before PWE gained control and told them to make it an MMO)

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Thillian

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Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3221

8/10/12 6:19:13 AM#16
Yeh the 4E just isn't good enough. The abilities seems identical to each other, the only variables that are changing are usually the keywords, but the effects are basically the same. All classes feel to play the same, the uniqueness from the previos editions disappeared completely. It is also not popular, so no wonder companies aren't implementing the system into their games.

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  anothername

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Joined: 9/12/08
Posts: 116

8/24/12 11:12:24 AM#17

Ain't the strongest point of the 4th ed. ruleset also its strongest weakness? It got reworked so throughout to balance it, streamline it, to make it a perfect fit for a CRPG/MMO that it now lost any strong point against the massive Fantasy MMO presence on the market besides the D&D name?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK it ain't quite possible to create cleric with a few levels of barbarian thrown in anymore. Its either this OR that. And if you take this your role it that; don't bother to try something else.

I can imagine that this takes a lot of headache away from DMing Pen & Paper campaings, but its not quite a strong marketing quote "NWN-O, create a Warrior that is even more restricted than in WoW".

  SwampRob

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Joined: 9/05/07
Posts: 1009

8/29/12 10:55:12 AM#18

Some interesting points-of-view.

I have played a weekly D&D tabletop game since the mid 70's, well before AD&D or D&D 1e existed, and IMO (and my players), 4e is by far the best version.   It's balanced; all classes get to do cool stuff instead of just the spell casters, clerics are more than walking medicine cabinets, etc.   I found 3.0 and especially 3.5 to be the worst by far.

 

*Sorry about the large font, my eyes aren't what they used to be.

  Tedly224

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Posts: 163

8/30/12 4:54:24 PM#19

I've also played AD&D since 1980, and in opposition to the above poster, I preferred the mark that the 3.5 rules reached and felt that was a really fun format of the game. I will agree that Druids and Clerics were a bit overpowered and that non casters felt somewhat underpowered, but that was a matter best resolved through careful adjustments and small house rules agreed upon by DM & Players. Well, that and careful attention to game time passage, rest opprotunities, and magic item availability.

 

Moving on, I didn't like 4th edition a great deal due to what I felt that many, many others felt. Fourth edition removed numerous facets and tools that lent themselves to advancing role play. And there was no sugar coating it.

However, I totally agreed that the rules set DID promote more active play with support classes (cleric, as you mentioned) in addition to the format being Made To Order as a video game. Preferably as turn based (think of the buggy yet fun Temple of Elemental Evil from Troika) but entirely feasible as a real time action game.

It looks like the character races and classes will be largely intact, and I'm seeing both At Will, Encounter, and Daily powers being used in the videos.

The animations sorta blow but I'm looking forward for the finished product and what it offers.