Originally posted by TemperHoof

 

So far, I admit I’m impressed with the marketing strategy of Guild Wars, for as a consumer, I feel very confident in the investment I intend to make in the pre-purchase. I feel I have the knowledge and the foresight of what to expect, thanks to the hard and eager work of the Game-Press. While the developers over at Arena.Net seem to have a good game on their shoulders, it is the Game-Press who really have knocked this one out of the park with selling the product for the developer. Never before have I seen a company so nimbly dance around a publisher, almost laughing in the face of NCsoft – because Guild Wars 2 is actually selling itself right now in all the right ways.

i haven't been too impressed recently.  pre-purchase without a release date has potential to be a PR nightmare.  it may not be a big deal for the gw2 fanboy, cause they plan to buy anyway. but the casual gamer who is interested in this game could see this as a huge red flag.  A-net has done a great job hypeing/gaining interest from a lot of gamers.  Not all of them follow the game as closely as others.  Some of my friends think i am crazy to pre-purchase without a release date.  A-net seems to have the majority on their side but the majority of gamers do not visit mmo sites.  the majority of gamers who have gained interest are the ones A-net need to target for sales.

from the outside looking in, the cash shop, region lock, and purchase without a release date has the potential to turn gw2 into the butt of quite of few jokes.  That would not be good for A-net.  Couple that with the nda lift.  Not everyone that does pre-purchase is going to like the game.  I would say that most will, but i have no idea, none of us do.  Word of mouth advertising and marketing goes both ways.  So the recent announcements or lack of them is not all good for A-net.  at least imo. 

They had great marketing, not so great as of late.  They need to start targeting the other gamers, not the fans they already have.

Originally posted by brody71 A-net seems to have the majority on their side but the majority of gamers do not visit mmo sites.  the majority of gamers who have gained interest are the ones A-net need to target for sales.

from the outside looking in, the cash shop, region lock, and purchase without a release date has the potential to turn gw2 into the butt of quite of few jokes.  That would not be good for A-net.  Couple that with the nda lift.  Not everyone that does pre-purchase is going to like the game.  I would say that most will, but i have no idea, none of us do.  Word of mouth advertising and marketing goes both ways.  So the recent announcements or lack of them is not all good for A-net.  at least imo. 

They had great marketing, not so great as of late.

 Well you have to keep in mind that "the vast majority of gamers" isn't exactly Arena.Net's target audience. Were it the target audience, you point would have some merit. But you see that Arena.Net is actually aiming at those people who do visit gaming websites. That may not be a vast majority, but it at least 1 million people if we go by Beta Sign Up numbers alone. People may argue that often Beta Signups are often overblown, that perhaps the average person submits 2 applications. If there were the case, that's still a strong 500,000 people!

I've not seen Arena.Net talking about how they wanna be a WoW-Killer. They aren't WAR, they aren't SWOTR either.. who were constantly boasting about how they would be THE death of WoW.

Frankly Arena.Net doesn't give a damn about WoW's throne, and just wants to entertain their target audience.

Edit - I linked a source to support my edited post ending.

Just to be clear, I am pre-purchasing tomorrow. My concerns aren't over whether or not the game has won my $$$, but what Arenanet is doing to market the game to people who aren't already "converts". I also don't think it's fair to expect fans to prosthelytize a game to friends now when we can't even offer them a better launch window than "sometime in 2012". The longer someone has been a fan of the game, the more limbs they have gone out on when trying to narrow down the release window, only to have those limbs collapse behind us as we reach farther and farther up the tree for support!

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by thedarkess

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by thedarkess

Originally posted by fiontar

(Arenanet still have forbidden the Press from releasing non-Arenanet provided screen shots, so there are some real limits on press coverage to date).

That's not really true. NDA for press was there only during the beta. But day after beta weekend (monday) NDA was lifted and press was allowed to post anything they wanted (except things that are not finished, aka cash shop).

 

@OP awesomely written article. Would like to see it spotlighted.

That is not true. In addition to not being able discuss some aspects of their experience or show videos of those things, (we know cash shop is one, but there were apparently others), the press have not been allowed to share their own in game screenshots.

hm.. but why ban screenshots. Videos are worth 10000x more than screenshots..

My question exactly. It would have saved a lot of the arguements over the alledged graphics quality "issue" that resulted from the degradation of the visuals that most of the videos produced due to video compression. Some of the leaked shots were beautiful, but we couldn't use them to defend the visuals.

You do realise that Screenshots are disabled for most BETA's right? I mean... the Printscreen button literally takes a picture of your desktop instead of the game.

It's quite common BETA practice, actually.

Originally posted by TemperHoof

Originally posted by brody71 A-net seems to have the majority on their side but the majority of gamers do not visit mmo sites.  the majority of gamers who have gained interest are the ones A-net need to target for sales.

from the outside looking in, the cash shop, region lock, and purchase without a release date has the potential to turn gw2 into the butt of quite of few jokes.  That would not be good for A-net.  Couple that with the nda lift.  Not everyone that does pre-purchase is going to like the game.  I would say that most will, but i have no idea, none of us do.  Word of mouth advertising and marketing goes both ways.  So the recent announcements or lack of them is not all good for A-net.  at least imo. 

They had great marketing, not so great as of late.

 Well you have to keep in mind that "the vast majority of gamers" isn't exactly Arena.Net's target audience. Were it the target audience, you point would have some merit. But you see that Arena.Net is actually aiming at those people who do visit gaming websites. That may not be a vast majority, but it at least 1 million people if we go by Beta Sign Up numbers alone. People may argue that often Beta Signups are often overblown, that perhaps the average person submits 2 applications. If there were the case, that's still a strong 500,000 people!

I've not seen Arena.Net talking about how they wanna be a WoW-Killer. They aren't WAR, they aren't SWOTR either.. who were constantly boasting about how they would be THE death of WoW.

Frankly I don't think Arena.Net gives a damn about WoW's throne, and just wants to entertain their target audience.

I think GW2 has the potential to sell over six million boxes during the first year. That's a huge potential audience, but marketing failures could cut that number by maybe up to 90%. The first half million will be the easiest, the higher the target beyond that, the better the marketing for the game will need to be. Sometimes I can't help but feel that the marketing dept. is following the strategies that an independant game designer who would be completely ecstatic over selling 100,000 copies might follow.

"I feel I have the knowledge and the foresight of what to expect,"

Even with all the information out there, people are still going to feel ripped off and find blame with A-net.

Originally posted by observer

"I feel I have the knowledge and the foresight of what to expect,"

Even with all the information out there, people are still going to feel ripped off and find blame with A-net.

That may very-well happen. But I won't feel ripped off. I've made and earned my money, and I do my research before I put it into a product. I will not regret my choice to put money into GW2, even if it doesn't turn out wonderful at the start -- I can always return to it later because I'm not obligated by monthly fee.

My Assumptions on the Marketing Plan Overall?

I feel that Arena.Net doesn't want to over-blow their game. They don't want to be another WAR, they don't want to be another SWOTR, and they don't want to be a house-hold name.. Not yet. Why? The game isn't ready yet. I have a feeling they around to start small and build up steam. This is the way that World of Warcraft did it in the first place. When WoW was released, it wasn't a household name.. but gamers KNEW about it. Gamers KNOW about Guild Wars 2. Does Arena.Net care if someone's mother knows that it's coming out soon so they can buy it for their 13-year-old for their Birthday? I highly doubt it.

Originally posted by TemperHoof

 not obligated by monthly fee.

This is a HUGE plus in my book!

Originally posted by Kreedz

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by thedarkess

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by thedarkess

Originally posted by fiontar

(Arenanet still have forbidden the Press from releasing non-Arenanet provided screen shots, so there are some real limits on press coverage to date).

That's not really true. NDA for press was there only during the beta. But day after beta weekend (monday) NDA was lifted and press was allowed to post anything they wanted (except things that are not finished, aka cash shop).

 

@OP awesomely written article. Would like to see it spotlighted.

That is not true. In addition to not being able discuss some aspects of their experience or show videos of those things, (we know cash shop is one, but there were apparently others), the press have not been allowed to share their own in game screenshots.

hm.. but why ban screenshots. Videos are worth 10000x more than screenshots..

My question exactly. It would have saved a lot of the arguements over the alledged graphics quality "issue" that resulted from the degradation of the visuals that most of the videos produced due to video compression. Some of the leaked shots were beautiful, but we couldn't use them to defend the visuals.

You do realise that Screenshots are disabled for most BETA's right? I mean... the Printscreen button literally takes a picture of your desktop instead of the game.

It's quite common BETA practice, actually.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/03/13/ncsoft-aims-to-break-the-static-online-game-mold-with-arenanets-guild-wars-2/

“We expect the public weekend beta people to be some of our strongest evangelists,” said Lye. “They’ll be able to post screenshots, create blogs and create live streaming of the game to share with their friends and the overall community.”

Arenanet banned press beta participants for posting screenshots, so I don't get the point of your post. Even if there was a barrier to easy screen shots being taken by the press, it wasn't a failproof mechanism and the question remains over why they prohibited screenshots from the press, when it would have just better served the game? I'm not going to obssess over the prohibition on screenshots, I brought it up in reply to the nothion that the press had carte blanche on reporting on the press beta weekends after the embargo was lifted. They did not. Even that isn't a big issue for me, just correcting an inaccuracy.

You know what's also different from all those games and GW2?  They're out, and we can now look back at the actual games themselves and see what they did wrong.  We can't do that with GW2.  Yet.

It's easy to sit back and say that enough information about Warhammer and Swtor (I never played FF, but when the boss apologizes for releasing a bad game, I guess enough's said) wasn't released, but it was.  We had gameplay videos all over the place.  But you can't really get a feel for the thing until you play it. 

It's not really fair to compare the marketing departments of these games while using the state of those games to prove your point.  Here's the thing.  Marketing sold me on games like Warhammer and Auto Assault.  Marketing has sold you on GW2.  Because that's all it is.  Good marketing.  And it's JUST hype and marketing until the game hits the shelves. 

Look, I had this same conversation with AmazingAvery when he knew that Age of Conan would be the best game ever.  I get it.  And I'll never convince you that you're affected by anything other than just what has to be the most awesome game ever.  That's fine too.  Just realize that it's all the same sales machine, and this one has your soul.  Just like A Secret World has mine.

That's going to be the best game ever.  I saw videos.

Originally posted by eHero

You know what's also different from all those games and GW2?  They're out, and we can now look back at the actual games themselves and see what they did wrong.  We can't do that with GW2.  Yet.

It's easy to sit back and say that enough information about Warhammer and Swtor (I never played FF, but when the boss apologizes for releasing a bad game, I guess enough's said) wasn't released, but it was.  We had gameplay videos all over the place.  But you can't really get a feel for the thing until you play it. 

It's not really fair to compare the marketing departments of these games while using the state of those games to prove your point.  Here's the thing.  Marketing sold me on games like Warhammer and Auto Assault.  Marketing has sold you on GW2.  Because that's all it is.  Good marketing.  And it's JUST hype and marketing until the game hits the shelves. 

Look, I had this same conversation with AmazingAvery when he knew that Age of Conan would be the best game ever.  I get it.  And I'll never convince you that you're affected by anything other than just what has to be the most awesome game ever.  That's fine too.  Just realize that it's all the same sales machine, and this one has your soul.  Just like A Secret World has mine.

That's going to be the best game ever.  I saw videos.

HAHA! you made perfect sense until, well..............

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by thedarkess

Originally posted by fiontar

(Arenanet still have forbidden the Press from releasing non-Arenanet provided screen shots, so there are some real limits on press coverage to date).

That's not really true. NDA for press was there only during the beta. But day after beta weekend (monday) NDA was lifted and press was allowed to post anything they wanted (except things that are not finished, aka cash shop).

 

@OP awesomely written article. Would like to see it spotlighted.

That is not true. In addition to not being able discuss some aspects of their experience or show videos of those things, (we know cash shop is one, but there were apparently others), the press have not been allowed to share their own in game screenshots.

Agree with Thedarkness, great post OP. Fiontar I believe is correct on limited screenshots.. but think about why. The game is NOT in a finalized nor optimized. It would be like a woman saying sure post up that pic of me without my morning coffee or make up =P She wouldn't let you! And the items still under NDA, like the cash shop that was the first look at it and it was a test group. They don't want it discussed because its not final and we saw the panic that ensued! Which is most likely the case for the other items they cannot dicuss.. also we know that they are withholding certain things. I believe them that its to save them as surprises, its a great marketing strategy!

on this I may be off base as I am trying to remember the larger post while replying to this one.. was there concern on the beta classification? I read today in the Romanian interview that they will NOT have an open beta, they disagree with the term and will not have a beta called "open beta". Instead they are having the BWE's like Rift and Tera had. So basically they have/had alpha, beta with NDA and beta without NDA. We are soon to have our first beta without NDA.

Originally posted by eHero

Look, I had this same conversation with AmazingAvery when he knew that Age of Conan would be the best game ever.  I get it.  And I'll never convince you that you're affected by anything other than just what has to be the most awesome game ever.  That's fine too.  Just realize that it's all the same sales machine, and this one has your soul.  Just like A Secret World has mine.

That's going to be the best game ever.  I saw videos.

The critical flaw in your point of view/response is that you take a bold assumption. No where in my article, or in any of my responses for that matter, do I declare/annoucne/assume that Guild Wars 2 is and will be the best game ever. As a matter of fact, I do not feel that Guild Wars 2 will be the greatest game, and everyone I tell about the game I say this.

"You know, the game looks really solid and polished, looks like plenty to do, and there is a good solid gameplay structure to at least enjoy for a little while. Even if it's not a huge success from the start, you can at least be assured that it will have a positive effect on future games."

You can quote me.

The game will be successful as long as its not a WoW clone b/c ppl are tired of playing WoW clone games.

Originally posted by Games888

The game will be successful as long as its not a WoW clone b/c ppl are tired of playing WoW clone games.

Amen.

Originally posted by eHero

You know what's also different from all those games and GW2?  They're out, and we can now look back at the actual games themselves and see what they did wrong.  We can't do that with GW2.  Yet.

It's easy to sit back and say that enough information about Warhammer and Swtor (I never played FF, but when the boss apologizes for releasing a bad game, I guess enough's said) wasn't released, but it was.  We had gameplay videos all over the place.  But you can't really get a feel for the thing until you play it. 

It's not really fair to compare the marketing departments of these games while using the state of those games to prove your point.  Here's the thing.  Marketing sold me on games like Warhammer and Auto Assault.  Marketing has sold you on GW2.  Because that's all it is.  Good marketing.  And it's JUST hype and marketing until the game hits the shelves. 

Look, I had this same conversation with AmazingAvery when he knew that Age of Conan would be the best game ever.  I get it.  And I'll never convince you that you're affected by anything other than just what has to be the most awesome game ever.  That's fine too.  Just realize that it's all the same sales machine, and this one has your soul.  Just like A Secret World has mine.

That's going to be the best game ever.  I saw videos.

You might want to talk to someone who has played the game for more than a tiny bit at a con before giving it your soul... just sayin. All you have to do is look at the state of the game RIGHT NOW, compare GW2 with TSW. TSW is in no way ready to be release in June... three game companies combined couldn't make it so. *shakes head, sighs and moves on*

Originally posted by ariboersma

Originally posted by eHero

You know what's also different from all those games and GW2?  They're out, and we can now look back at the actual games themselves and see what they did wrong.  We can't do that with GW2.  Yet.

It's easy to sit back and say that enough information about Warhammer and Swtor (I never played FF, but when the boss apologizes for releasing a bad game, I guess enough's said) wasn't released, but it was.  We had gameplay videos all over the place.  But you can't really get a feel for the thing until you play it. 

It's not really fair to compare the marketing departments of these games while using the state of those games to prove your point.  Here's the thing.  Marketing sold me on games like Warhammer and Auto Assault.  Marketing has sold you on GW2.  Because that's all it is.  Good marketing.  And it's JUST hype and marketing until the game hits the shelves. 

Look, I had this same conversation with AmazingAvery when he knew that Age of Conan would be the best game ever.  I get it.  And I'll never convince you that you're affected by anything other than just what has to be the most awesome game ever.  That's fine too.  Just realize that it's all the same sales machine, and this one has your soul.  Just like A Secret World has mine.

That's going to be the best game ever.  I saw videos.

You might want to talk to someone who has played the game for more than a tiny bit at a con before giving it your soul... just sayin. All you have to do is look at the state of the game RIGHT NOW, compare GW2 with TSW. TSW is in no way ready to be release in June... three game companies combined couldn't make it so. *shakes head, sighs and moves on*

how do you know what state TSW is in?  they haven't exactly releasd a slew of videos.  you've been saying you played the beta, but that was months ago.

Originally posted by brody71

how do you know what state TSW is in?  they haven't exactly releasd a slew of videos.  you've been saying you played the beta, but that was months ago.

I think you completely missed the point of what he was stating. He was using TSW as an example of how many MMORPGs have been released in the past 8 years. You hear very little about them and know they haven't been in production very long. Yet, they still have a stupidly soon release date and almost no real information about them -- despite sharing a potential release date with Guild Wars 2. It's an example, and a good use of one.

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ariboersma

Originally posted by eHero

You know what's also different from all those games and GW2?  They're out, and we can now look back at the actual games themselves and see what they did wrong.  We can't do that with GW2.  Yet.

It's easy to sit back and say that enough information about Warhammer and Swtor (I never played FF, but when the boss apologizes for releasing a bad game, I guess enough's said) wasn't released, but it was.  We had gameplay videos all over the place.  But you can't really get a feel for the thing until you play it. 

It's not really fair to compare the marketing departments of these games while using the state of those games to prove your point.  Here's the thing.  Marketing sold me on games like Warhammer and Auto Assault.  Marketing has sold you on GW2.  Because that's all it is.  Good marketing.  And it's JUST hype and marketing until the game hits the shelves. 

Look, I had this same conversation with AmazingAvery when he knew that Age of Conan would be the best game ever.  I get it.  And I'll never convince you that you're affected by anything other than just what has to be the most awesome game ever.  That's fine too.  Just realize that it's all the same sales machine, and this one has your soul.  Just like A Secret World has mine.

That's going to be the best game ever.  I saw videos.

You might want to talk to someone who has played the game for more than a tiny bit at a con before giving it your soul... just sayin. All you have to do is look at the state of the game RIGHT NOW, compare GW2 with TSW. TSW is in no way ready to be release in June... three game companies combined couldn't make it so. *shakes head, sighs and moves on*

how do you know what state TSW is in?  they haven't exactly releasd a slew of videos.  you've been saying you played the beta, but that was months ago.

you aren't following your game of choice very well... its in beta right now. You can see that right now at the TSW forums.

Originally posted by ariboersma

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ariboersma

Originally posted by eHero

You know what's also different from all those games and GW2?  They're out, and we can now look back at the actual games themselves and see what they did wrong.  We can't do that with GW2.  Yet.

It's easy to sit back and say that enough information about Warhammer and Swtor (I never played FF, but when the boss apologizes for releasing a bad game, I guess enough's said) wasn't released, but it was.  We had gameplay videos all over the place.  But you can't really get a feel for the thing until you play it. 

It's not really fair to compare the marketing departments of these games while using the state of those games to prove your point.  Here's the thing.  Marketing sold me on games like Warhammer and Auto Assault.  Marketing has sold you on GW2.  Because that's all it is.  Good marketing.  And it's JUST hype and marketing until the game hits the shelves. 

Look, I had this same conversation with AmazingAvery when he knew that Age of Conan would be the best game ever.  I get it.  And I'll never convince you that you're affected by anything other than just what has to be the most awesome game ever.  That's fine too.  Just realize that it's all the same sales machine, and this one has your soul.  Just like A Secret World has mine.

That's going to be the best game ever.  I saw videos.

You might want to talk to someone who has played the game for more than a tiny bit at a con before giving it your soul... just sayin. All you have to do is look at the state of the game RIGHT NOW, compare GW2 with TSW. TSW is in no way ready to be release in June... three game companies combined couldn't make it so. *shakes head, sighs and moves on*

how do you know what state TSW is in?  they haven't exactly releasd a slew of videos.  you've been saying you played the beta, but that was months ago.

you aren't following your game of choice very well... its in beta right now. You can see that right now at the TSW forums.

i must not bother to visit the forums, cause im so interested in it.  i just hate how people slander games, for no good reason.