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4/09/12 6:15:03 PM#61
Originally posted by NMStudio absolutely rediculous assesment. Especially when you look at indie developers working on games like repopulation with a budget that wouldn't cover biowares launch costs for staff meetings. |
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GeezerGamer
 Advanced Member
Joined: 4/03/12
Who ever said "Familiarity breeds contempt" didn't have an internet connection. |
4/09/12 6:21:32 PM#62
The fundamental difference between Themeparks and Sandboxes boils down to what you are building. With a sandbox, your focus is on your world as much as your own character. With a theme park, "They" have already built your world. You get to play in it. You build your character in it. The extend that you have a hybrid is the extent to whcih the world has already been fashioned vs what needs to be established by players. If the conversation turned "Tit-for-Tat", and I've stopped posting, Consider it your win. |
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4/09/12 6:21:33 PM#63
Originally posted by william0532 We're talking about doing a game RIGHT, not just doing a game... big difference there.
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4/09/12 6:24:33 PM#64
Originally posted by GeezerGamer I came into this world and it was already up and running :) but I still have my chance to make my impact. A game can have (and probably SHOULD have) all of the restrictions that the real world gives us and still be a sandbox.
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DeaconX
 Elite Member
Joined: 2/08/05
Stand up for what you believe; Even if you stand alone. |
4/09/12 6:25:05 PM#65
Originally posted by NMStudio I honestly, foolishly evlieved BioWare were going to create an incredible Star Wars universe in which to not only to play, but to 'exist'. Sadly they went full on single-player heavy, themepark. But just imagine for a moment if they used their supposed 300mil budget and took the best concepts of SWG, the best concepts from KOTOR, and mashed the two together... ah well. They played it very safe and I think it'll burn them in the long run.  Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one. BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward. |
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4/09/12 6:30:39 PM#66
I would love to see a robust crafting system make it in a current gen themepark game. Sadly most crafting nowdays is tacked on. I would play eve if the end game fleet battles were actually interesting but sadly it is not the case.
I want a crafting system like SWG or AC2 in a solid themepark game. Sadly I might be waiting awhile. |
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4/09/12 6:31:08 PM#67
Originally posted by DeaconX How could you possibly have believed that you were going to get anything that resembled a sandbox from BioWare? They were very upfront about the game they were developing, and they delivered on that better than most companies manage to do. Would I have liked more themepark elements? Sure, that would have been great, but that's just not what this game set out to be. Their budget, however, would need to be even higher. They spent 300 million (or whatever it really is) to develop the game that they did... if you wanted a sandbox built within that, you'd need another huge chunk of money on top of that.
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Originally posted by melangel Well from what I know from my game design document, yes this could actually work very well. But right now I don't want to take the time to discuss everything because its.. alot. And just because it screams themepark doesn't negate that there won't be a grind. :) |
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Originally posted by NMStudio Man if I only won that mega millions jackpot by my self.. lol |
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4/09/12 6:36:44 PM#70
Originally posted by Eronakis No problem with not explaining everything. It's past midnight here and my head might explode from info overload :) I wish you luck on your mmo and I hope we've helped you in some way. |
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4/09/12 7:11:04 PM#71
Originally posted by NMStudio No, what your doing is over complicating on what you think both game types are. Worst of all, your using your opinion of what "right" is. Just out of curiousity what game do you believe was done right? |
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Originally posted by melangel Thank you good sir! |
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Originally posted by zekeofev Ah good sir, I would also like to see this as well. Read my thread of old in which your eyes may feast on and prosper! lol Let me know what ya think! "Crafting should not only be an incentive but should be a balanced game design element with combat" |
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Originally posted by melangel I do have a lot of stuff, been working on it on and off for seven years. If you're ever interested, or have any questions shoot me a pm |
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4/10/12 9:58:05 AM#75
Originally posted by NMStudio Bioware's Damian Schubert said it would be somewhere in the middle. “Massively multiplayer games are not new. … One of these questions, still asked today, is whether or not massively multiplayer environments should strive to be games or to be worlds. Advocates of the world philosophy see the space as a simulation or a sandbox. Fans of this viewpoint favor freedom and realism above all else – players have the ability to use and abuse almost anything around them, including other players. In ‘world’ MMOs, players tend to have a wide range of possible actions, most of which have relatively little depth. The depth of the world MMO comes from the interactions – players are urged to explore the world, and to find their own fun. The world MMO hates artificial constraints like classes or level requirements. The game philosophy is quite the opposite, of course. Advocates of this view favor fun and balance more than anything. The game MMO is often described as being more like a theme park than a virtual world – player activity is tightly controlled, in such a way to help maximize the chance the player will have a fun, balanced and interesting combat experience and, in general, not be nasty to each other. The game MMO has no problem with introducing arbitrary rules to provide a tight, visceral gaming experience. Players can perform fewer actions, but these actions tend to have greater depth (such as a deeper, more balanced combat game)… I’ve long advocated that moderation is the way to go, and I believe on The Old Republic we are successfully travelling a middle path, a centrist path that takes the strengths of both: provide a directed and balanced game experience inside a lush, free-form Star Wars world.” "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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4/10/12 10:41:31 AM#76
People don't really "get" themeparks. Not even those who love themepark games. The original pull for them (and I think one that is under-represented in these forums), is the ability to have a great narrative experience (narrative != quests). A themepark focuses on ensuring that all players know they can do something interesting, and provides them, through the world, with a set of challenges to overcome. In this way they are experiencing their story. I will argue very strongly that non of the progression crap that WoW had contributed to its greatness -- it's the quality and narrative of its quests that did so. SW:ToR did not advance this aspect of the genre. Sandboxes have narrative as well, but this narrative comes largely from the player base. You can do stuff, but the only interesting things that can be done involve working with players and creating/destroying stuff. The idea of an epic adventure in a sandbox is far different than that of a themepark. And having a repeatable story of a world ending monster, or something, just does not make sense in a sandbox, which gets its immersion from realism as opposed to story-telling or moment by moment gameplay. All other points aside, that is the fundamental area where these two game types diverge (and I know I'm not the first to say it on this thread, though others used different words). So blending a themepark and a sandbox means taking the narrative style of one, and making sure it is available to the other. Because of this, the only way to truly make a true themepark/sandbox hybrid is to give the players the ability to effect content that is part of the environment. I can see two ways to accomplish this.
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4/10/12 10:47:16 AM#77
Originally posted by Eronakis So you are not trying to marry the two camps, just make a pve game that is less restrictive. As a sandbox player it has no interest for me. I wish you success but it is not, in my opinion, sandbox if it is pve only. Currently bored with MMO's. |
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Originally posted by ElderRat No problem, sorry I wasn't clear on it before. Sometimes I assume everyone knows what I am talking about :P. Don't get me wrong I love pvp as well but pvp won't be implemented first, maybe down the road. I would just like to see a more intricate themepark world with interesting AI PVE interaction. |
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4/10/12 11:54:44 AM#79
It could be done. The hardest part would be agreeing what parts of a sandbox are must haves and which are preferences.
Must haves:
Preferences:
Adding quests and getting rid of linear zone progression are both no brainers.
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