March 12 Interview in Venturebeat with Dallas Dickinson:

http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/13/star-wars-the-old-republic-was-built-to-thrive-in-a-wow-world/

Dickinson said that they won some and lost some in trying to scale up to full production with this kind of scope. He believes they did well in the voice over and writing development cycle, as well as outsourcing of art for both character and environment. Where they didn’t do so well, he said, was in the build pipeline (what gets done and by whom), data tables (tracking), and software scripting

If that's what Dickinson things is wrong with the game then I don't think it will ever be 'fixed'.

But then again, does he really want to fix the game. The key quote is here:

Keeping people playing an MMO game is less expensive than acquiring new players, they said.

Note; to the Mod who deleted the last thread because I got the link wrong. Next time let me have a little more than three minutes between putting up a thread and correcting a link before you go and delete it, eh, chuckles? Thanks.

Originally posted by noncley

 

If that's what Dickinson things is wrong with the game then I don't think it will ever be 'fixed'.

But then again, does he really want to fix the game. The key quote is here:

Keeping people playing an MMO game is less expensive than acquiring new players, they said.

 To me that would suggest they know it is important to keep their current customers happy by fixing things rather than lose them and try to get new ones later.  Could go either way I guess.

I think you tend to take a negative perspective on what he said. I don't think he was trying to list all the design decision faults that he might perceive, but instead was discussing the possible production faults of the game during developement.

And the second thing you quote reads more like someone who thinks of things from a marketing perspective. Its not that he doesn't want to fix the game, its that he believes that retaining customers that are already using your product is cheaper than advertising in order to gain new ones.

Anyway, obviously there are multiple ways to take it.

What strikes me as so odd is that all the features the team seemed to want to have in the game - the same kind of features that players are asking for now - were deliberately cut out in order to bring the game to market even faster. And yet the game was in development as far back as the end of 2005? That's seven years ago. Why did the game take so long to make and yet, it seems, still be in such an incredible rush at the end?

Originally posted by noncley

What strikes me as so odd is that all the features the team seemed to want to have in the game - the same kind of features that players are asking for now - were deliberately cut out in order to bring the game to market even faster. And yet the game was in development as far back as the end of 2005? That's seven years ago. Why did the game take so long to make and yet, it seems, still be in such an incredible rush at the end?

200 million dollars tends to put pressure on release.

Here's what I picture having happened.

"Lets build a SW based mmo, test our feet in a guaranteed box sales success, and put the revenue from it into something we'll really care about.  Mass Effect MMORPG .  Meeting ajourned, go go go"

I tried to like the game, but I found it had 0 redeeming qualities.  no replay value once you hit 50 on 2 char's (my wife squeeked out a 3rd 50 but she admits it was "like pulling teeth getting logged in for the grind yet again thru the exact same scripted rails with no chance to do anything else unless you want to grind like it's L2"

I think the main mistake they made with SWToR was lack of any and all choices, alternate branches of class questing, optional areas to do instead of the main yellow brick road they made us follow.

my 2 cents, take it or leave it, I'm not going to reply to flametards on this one so w'ever

Originally posted by blackthornn

Here's what I picture having happened.

 

"Lets build a SW based mmo, test our feet in a guaranteed box sales success, and put the revenue from it into something we'll really care about.  Mass Effect MMORPG .  Meeting ajourned, go go go"

 

 

I tried to like the game, but I found it had 0 redeeming qualities.  no replay value once you hit 50 on 2 char's (my wife squeeked out a 3rd 50 but she admits it was "like pulling teeth getting logged in for the grind yet again thru the exact same scripted rails with no chance to do anything else unless you want to grind like it's L2"

 

I think the main mistake they made with SWToR was lack of any and all choices, alternate branches of class questing, optional areas to do instead of the main yellow brick road they made us follow.

 

my 2 cents, take it or leave it, I'm not going to reply to flametards on this one so w'ever

I tend tio agree with you. There was a major disconnect between Marketing and Development. Marketing was: 'This is YOUR story you define with your CHOICES'  while Development was all: 'It's a linear SRPG with some networking features'. In the end, the choices you made almost anywhere down the line actually changed nothing.

Originally posted by noncley

What strikes me as so odd is that all the features the team seemed to want to have in the game - the same kind of features that players are asking for now - were deliberately cut out in order to bring the game to market even faster. And yet the game was in development as far back as the end of 2005? That's seven years ago. Why did the game take so long to make and yet, it seems, still be in such an incredible rush at the end?

I'm only guessing, but it might have to do with the fact that they were implementing cutscenes, dialogue and dialogue choices for every quest. That includes every character type in game along with the NPCs and every companion.Plus, it was their first MMO.

Originally posted by noncley

 

March 12 Interview in Venturebeat with Dallas Dickinson:

http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/13/star-wars-the-old-republic-was-built-to-thrive-in-a-wow-world/

Dickinson said that they won some and lost some in trying to scale up to full production with this kind of scope. He believes they did well in the voice over and writing development cycle, as well as outsourcing of art for both character and environment. Where they didn’t do so well, he said, was in the build pipeline (what gets done and by whom), data tables (tracking), and software scripting

If that's what Dickinson things is wrong with the game then I don't think it will ever be 'fixed'.

But then again, does he really want to fix the game. The key quote is here:

Keeping people playing an MMO game is less expensive than acquiring new players, they said.

 

Note; to the Mod who deleted the last thread because I got the link wrong. Next time let me have a little more than three minutes between putting up a thread and correcting a link before you go and delete it, eh, chuckles? Thanks.

Your second quote from him isn't an indicator that he may not want to "fix" the game.   Quite the opposite, in fact.  He just states a pretty well-known fact that it is always cheaper to keep the existing customers than to bring in new ones.  That goes for any business.  And you don't keep those existing customers without actually continuing to improve your game.  

The quote that stuck out to me was the one where Bioware classified gamers into one of four categories:  Socializer, Killer, Explorer, and Achiever.  I'd say the main issue in this game is that the've really only catered to two of those 4 types of gamers:  The Killer and the Achiever.  The solid combat/character design, and standard themepark progression system does well enough to hold onto the Killers and Achievers.  However, the overall world design and linearity of the game leaves the Socializer and the Explorer without a home in this MMO, unfortunately.  

I found it particularly telling that Bioware believed that the companion system would be used to cover that "social" aspect instead of incorporating a more open, seamless world and more social features.  The companion system is terrific, and a great addition to the genre, IMO.  But it's not something that can ever replace the need to group with other live players in an mmorpg, unfortunately.  I definitely think BW missed the boat on that one.

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by noncley

 

March 12 Interview in Venturebeat with Dallas Dickinson:

http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/13/star-wars-the-old-republic-was-built-to-thrive-in-a-wow-world/

Dickinson said that they won some and lost some in trying to scale up to full production with this kind of scope. He believes they did well in the voice over and writing development cycle, as well as outsourcing of art for both character and environment. Where they didn’t do so well, he said, was in the build pipeline (what gets done and by whom), data tables (tracking), and software scripting

If that's what Dickinson things is wrong with the game then I don't think it will ever be 'fixed'.

But then again, does he really want to fix the game. The key quote is here:

Keeping people playing an MMO game is less expensive than acquiring new players, they said.

 

Note; to the Mod who deleted the last thread because I got the link wrong. Next time let me have a little more than three minutes between putting up a thread and correcting a link before you go and delete it, eh, chuckles? Thanks.

Your second quote from him isn't an indicator that he may not want to "fix" the game.   Quite the opposite, in fact.  He just states a pretty well-known fact that it is always cheaper to keep the existing customers than to bring in new ones.  That goes for any business.  And you don't keep those existing customers without actually continuing to improve your game.  

The quote that stuck out to me was the one where Bioware classified gamers into one of four categories:  Socializer, Killer, Explorer, and Achiever.  I'd say the main issue in this game is that the've really only catered to two of those 4 types of gamers:  The Killer and the Achiever.  The solid combat/character design, and standard themepark progression system does well enough to hold onto the Killers and Achievers.  However, the overall world design and linearity of the game leaves the Socializer and the Explorer without a home in this MMO, unfortunately.  

I found it particularly telling that Bioware believed that the companion system would be used to cover that "social" aspect instead of incorporating a more open, seamless world and more social features.  The companion system is terrific, and a great addition to the genre, IMO.  But it's not something that can ever replace the need to group with other live players in an mmorpg, unfortunately.  I definitely think BW missed the boat on that one.

 

 

I agree with you. If they had put in features that spoke to the Explored - larger, more open lanscapes - and the Socialiser - crafting, trading, etc - this game might have knocked WoW for six. As it is, they came out with soem thing that, in terms of gameplay experience, was desperately unbalanced and therefore, almost literally, lame.

Originally posted by noncley

 

March 12 Interview in Venturebeat with Dallas Dickinson:

http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/13/star-wars-the-old-republic-was-built-to-thrive-in-a-wow-world/

Dickinson said that they won some and lost some in trying to scale up to full production with this kind of scope. He believes they did well in the voice over and writing development cycle, as well as outsourcing of art for both character and environment. Where they didn’t do so well, he said, was in the build pipeline (what gets done and by whom), data tables (tracking), and software scripting

If that's what Dickinson things is wrong with the game then I don't think it will ever be 'fixed'.

But then again, does he really want to fix the game. The key quote is here:

Keeping people playing an MMO game is less expensive than acquiring new players, they said.

 

Note; to the Mod who deleted the last thread because I got the link wrong. Next time let me have a little more than three minutes between putting up a thread and correcting a link before you go and delete it, eh, chuckles? Thanks.

I think you are taking his comments the wrong way.  I think he is referring to the game development process and not talking about in-game issues and content.  Building a game this big over 6 years would be a coordination nightmare.  I also think the last comment you point out is just him referring to a business strategy of focusing on the current playerbase rather than chase some hypothetical new player base like SOE did in SWG.  I dont really see anything in the interview where he addresses any specific game mechanics or future plans for the game.

Is this a joke?

Yeah, their programming is trash, it always HAS been at Bioware... But SERIOUSLY? That's ALL he could think of?

Does anybody remember how big a deal ability delay was when the game launched?  You see anyone posting about it now?

And you guys say they aren't listening or fixing their game.

Originally posted by Hauvarn

Does anybody remember how big a deal ability delay was when the game launched?  You see anyone posting about it now?

And you guys say they aren't listening or fixing their game.

There's a difference between fixing what people want fixed and fixing what it nessicary for your game to survive.

Originally posted by Jason2444

Originally posted by Hauvarn

Does anybody remember how big a deal ability delay was when the game launched?  You see anyone posting about it now?

And you guys say they aren't listening or fixing their game.

There's a difference between fixing what people want fixed and fixing what it nessicary for your game to survive.

Well the game is surviving quite well right now, despite of some of the critics' claims to the contrary.  And Bioware has shown that they are committed to improving the game and pushing out content.  So you can complain until you are blue in the face, but this game isn't going anywhere, even if its detractors scream louder than in other games.  

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Jason2444

Originally posted by Hauvarn

Does anybody remember how big a deal ability delay was when the game launched?  You see anyone posting about it now?

And you guys say they aren't listening or fixing their game.

There's a difference between fixing what people want fixed and fixing what it nessicary for your game to survive.

Well the game is surviving quite well right now, despite of some of the critics' claims to the contrary.  And Bioware has shown that they are committed to improving the game and pushing out content.  So you can complain until you are blue in the face, but this game isn't going anywhere, even if its detractors scream louder than in other games.  

 

Is it surviving quite well now? It's just announced every subscriber will be given twenty-five trial keys to distribute to their friends while everyone awaits the Jesus 1.2 patch? Why would it be called that?

GAH! When will developers learn! "SWTOR was built to thrive in a WOW world". THAT is why you fail.

I remeber very well how MMOs worked when WOW was launched, and back then, Blizzard purposefully broke at least 50% of MMO conventions. Before WOW most quest givers had no "!", few had radar or did even direct to the quest goal area, bosses had hours or days of respawn rates asf. What made the success of WOW back then was that radical change WOW made in many details and subsystems, and NOT just copying the WOW of it's day, Everquest I, but working on the flaws which had made EQ1 a hardcore niche game. That brough WOW to a mass market audience.

And sorry, SWTOR is just a BAD WOW copy attempty. Many, many things which I liked in WOW were entirely absent in SWTOR. The cool and beloved player hubs, the attention to detail, the mood and atmopshere of the zones, dungeon finder aka no idle waiting, meaningful factions, asf. I am really no WOW fan, but SWTOR missed to add a lot of what made WOW good, and copied only the lame parts. You don't defeat a top MMO just by "making it similar". You have to innovate not imitate, to paraphrase a perfume ad. ;)

"Keeping people playing an MMO game is less expensive than acquiring new players, they said." THIS is SO wrong! They totally failed to keep people.

Blast. They have no understanding that a game also needs soul, heart, something you can feel. This game is so damn cold, technical and sterile in so many areas. That is what they didn't get. I'd say it lacks the "feminine touch". It's a house not a home. All is planned rationally and counted in metrics and statistics. Only that numbers don't make something alive! Bah...

Originally posted by noncley

 

Note; to the Mod who deleted the last thread because I got the link wrong. Next time let me have a little more than three minutes between putting up a thread and correcting a link before you go and delete it, eh, chuckles? Thanks.

If such a standard was used for previews, reviews and articles written by the writers on this site, 90% of them would be removed.  Not to mention all the silly podcasts they have been running by fake gamers would be gone to.  HMM that would not be a bad thing.

I'd like to see the list of features they cut in order to get the release build. The article is really vague and can be interpreted in either direction. To me he is just saying, "I would have liked the project to have been smoother." The article doesn't address the brick wall at 50, and then there are some silly things like talking about having the companions to address Social gamers from the Bartle Index. I guess that means they included the restrictive static worlds especially for the Explorers, identical armor for everyone at end game for the Achievers, and Killers have the whole game as their oyster (that's all there is to do really).  

This and the comments made by the design team on the panel at PAX concerning hardcore gamers have me wanting to piss in the coffee pot at Bioware.

Originally posted by ignore_me

I'd like to see the list of features they cut in order to get the release build. The article is really vague and can be interpreted in either direction. To me he is just saying, "I would have liked the project to have been smoother." The article doesn't address the brick wall at 50, and then there are some silly things like talking about having the companions to address Social gamers from the Bartle Index. I guess that means they included the restrictive static worlds especially for the Explorers, identical armor for everyone at end game for the Achievers, and Killers have the whole game as their oyster (that's all there is to do really).  

This and the comments made by the design team on the panel at PAX concerning hardcore gamers have me wanting to piss in the coffee pot at Bioware.

 

Here you go:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363056