Originally posted by Tardcore

Actually I am as he is saying only the preceived "hater" populaton is guilty of bad behavior, where as I showed that his argument easily fit BOTH sides of extremists. 

That you did.  I just wanted it noted that you lose the Moral highground when you sling mud too...

Originally posted by iller

Originally posted by Tardcore

Actually I am as he is saying only the preceived "hater" populaton is guilty of bad behavior, where as I showed that his argument easily fit BOTH sides of extremists. 

That you did.  I just wanted it noted that you lose the Moral highground when you sling mud too...

Which I have not done. Slinging mud implies the intent of insult simply for insult's sake. All I've done is to show by example why the OPs post, and subsequent vitriolic posts agreeing, or disagreeing with it, are nothing more than attempts to insult and wound, not enlighten or communicate.

The devotion people have for their game of choice is staggering. Most posters who hate a game will always compare it to their favourite. "This game sux, it's just a copy of WoW" happens to be the most common argument against most games.


  It's almost like there's only one true MMO in some gamers eye's and they're prepared to argue till they're blue in the face to prove themselves. More often than not they cling to unproven rumours or in some cases out right lies about the "target" game. Anyone who expresses interest in said game suddenly needs to be convinced that they shouldn't play it, and they don't pull their punches. (The last post I read before writing this mentioned morals, what do morals have to do with liking a game or not?)


Games aren't the only things that provoke this kind of response, favourite authors, movies, Star Trek V's Star Wars, potter V's hobbits, soap opera's, political parties and religions....to name a few.


It's a game, if you don't like it then why on earth are you even commenting on it.  Sit back and watch the many "fanbois'" hearts break on release day if your so convinced it'll be a flop.


Why do you feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what you believe is the correct way to believe?


Why do you even visit the forums of a game you have no interest in? You may say "I'm interested but...", what your really saying is "I would be interest but...". You have no interest in viewing this game objectively and only wish to 'bash' it with whatever dirt you can find, true or not.


The CS isn't fully revealed yet and people seem convinced it's a P2W game. Please give me next weeks lotto numbers if you truly believe ANet has made a P2W game based on someone’s precognitive prediction, you obviously have a portal into the future. (That's EURO Millions /PM me).


The combat (omg this game looks so frekking easy/boring) difficulty people seem to quote is completely baffling. My only guess is that they watched some of the early alpha video's posted by ANet to showcase the game play mechanics. (They dumbed down the AI so they could kill things easily). All Beta video's I've seen so far have looked amazingly fun and in some instances hard. The only content shown so far has been pvp, levels 1-20 (80 cap) and 1 dungeon, hardly enough content to base a realistic bases on the combat effectiveness or difficulty.


No Raids/endgame QQers are pretty damn obvious about where they come from. Raids in GW2 range from 1 man up to whatever you can fit in a zone. The whole game scales in difficulty dependant on the number of combatants. If the Shatterer lands on your head and you put the call out then you have a guild + everyone else on the scene running a raid. WvWvW is a raid, just like TB/WG was a raid. Instead of having win conditions you have a 2 week battle, at the end whoever has the most points win, WvW has both PVP and PVE elements. Dungeons/Heroics - yep they have those. All dungeons have explorable modes (also called bloody hard modes). The point is, the whole game is end game because you set your own endgame requirements. You like raiding, there's plenty of options. You like exploring, the game is HUGE. You like dungeons...yadda yadda yadda.


Will the game Flop? I'm not an industry professional with a decades worth of experience with this genre, I don't have any access to the beta and have no hands on experience. For me to say anything other than “I Don't Know” would be incredibly presumptuous and pure speculation. However, my opinion is that it will soar.

TL;DR; -  Read it, it's an opinion and deserves the same weight as yours.

Originally posted by Sp1dersbane

Why do you feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what you believe is the correct way to believe?

Why the consipiracy that anyone with a differing opinion is trying to mind control others?

Why the conspiarcy that anyone with a critical outlook on the game both hates and has ZERO interest in it?
 

 

TL;DR; -  Read it, it's an opinion and deserves the same weight as yours.

Completely agree. Funny thing though, if you read the OPs post you'll find it its little more than a rant saying that any person with a differing opinion from the OPs, does NOT deserve the same weight as his. And that only people who hold a CRITICAL outlook on this game, hold opinions which are uneducated and spurious.

 

 

Why the consipiracy that anyone with a differing opinion is trying to mind control others?

Why the conspiarcy that anyone with a critical outlook on the game both hates and has ZERO interest in it?

Sorry, I generalised instead of focusing on the original post. The point is valid though:

Why do people feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what they believe is the correct way to believe?

Hardly a conspiracy, just an observation from ingame chat channels and forums over the years. Saw it in the EQ2 and SWG channels about WoW when it was released and subsequently in the WoW forums/channels about each and every release since. even in new releases it doesn't take much for the conversations to move onto bashing of an old or future game. Some gamers are fanatical about their favoirite game, too the point of hating any other for reasons that are not based on anything other than an opinion (Often not their own and based on incomplete/inaccurate information).

In regards to the OP, my post was more of a opinion of why they hate. I don't think his post deserves the classification of a rant, more of a comment on the current trend of prejudged opinions becoming viral on the forums.

His last line QFT: - "please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs."

Originally posted by Sp1dersbane

Why the consipiracy that anyone with a differing opinion is trying to mind control others?

Why the conspiarcy that anyone with a critical outlook on the game both hates and has ZERO interest in it?

 

Sorry, I generalised instead of focusing on the original post. The point is valid though:

 

Why do people feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what they believe is the correct way to believe?

 

Hardly a conspiracy, just an observation from ingame chat channels and forums over the years. Saw it in the EQ2 and SWG channels about WoW when it was released and subsequently in the WoW forums/channels about each and every release since. even in new releases it doesn't take much for the conversations to move onto bashing of an old or future game. Some gamers are fanatical about their favoirite game, too the point of hating any other for reasons that are not based on anything other than an opinion (Often not their own and based on incomplete/inaccurate information).

 True, its human nature, happens with any idea, from movies, to game to politics. The problem is when you do like the OP and lump educated, and undeducated citicism into one group, you are just immediately gainsaying all opinions other than your own.

 

In regards to the OP, my post was more of a opinion of why they hate. I don't think his post deserves the classification of a rant, more of a comment on the current trend of prejudged opinions becoming viral on the forums.

 

His last line QFT: - "please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs."

 

I do feel it deserves to be designated as a rant. While I agree his last sentence is incredibly logical, and excellent advice, the rest of his post was entirely unnecessary, and actually helped to make sure this good advice was immediatly ignored.

For example, "I ask you good people to review the facts at hand, and make your own judgement." Is good advice.

"I ask you good people to review the facts at hand , and make your own judgement, and not listen to these other assholes." is not. And that is exactly what he did.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs

So what your saying is people should ONLY post good things about GW2? and not to express there opions on a public forum

So how much are they paying you to get there advocate?

Originally posted by Sp1dersbane

Why do people feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what they believe is the correct way to believe?

 

Much of what may appear to be this is debate, brainstorming and opinion. It doesn't mean everyone involved in any sort of discussion who's views may vary from someone else's is out to convince the world of their belief. I am beginning to think some people (note: not EVERYONE)  are lacking in the skills needed to debate or converse on a level that doesn't include outright insults and accusations of foul play.  And that could be true about  people on both sides of an arguement.

The difference between a hater and a fan is a fan just cheers on his/her game and enjoys being excited about it.  They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.  You won't find me in any specific game forum pissing all over their happy.  Sure, I write a blog where I have criticized the industry in general for putting out the same kinds of games over and over, but that's not the same as seeking out people that love X and hosing them down for enjoying their game.

Just because they can't deal with their unmet expectations doesn't mean that if GW2 doesn't live up to mine (which I seriously doubt, seeing as what I want is in the game) that it's going to be a tragedy. I leave others to manage their own expectations and enthusiasm like the adults they are - I don't run around with wet blankets trying to dampen the fires of hype.

IMO, nothing wrong with hype. BTW, the GW2 hype-meter just went up a 10th of a percent.  I really would like to know who comes up with that number and how.

Originally posted by Meleagar

The difference between a hater and a fan is a fan just cheers on his/her game and enjoys being excited about it.  They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.  

Exactly. Fans won't bother anyone who is not a fan, as they're talking about the product between fans only.

That's also why comparing haters extremism with fans extremism is not fair judgement by definition.

That's also why haters coming and trying to ruin fans enthusiasm is often seen as pathetic jealousy.

Originally posted by Meleagar

The difference between a hater and a fan is a fan just cheers on his/her game and enjoys being excited about it.  They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.  You won't find me in any specific game forum pissing all over their happy.  Sure, I write a blog where I have criticized the industry in general for putting out the same kinds of games over and over, but that's not the same as seeking out people that love X and them down for enjoying their game.

Just because they can't deal with their unmet expectations doesn't mean that if GW2 doesn't live up to mine (which I seriously doubt, seeing as what I want is in the game) that it's going to be a tragedy. I leave others to manage their own expectations and enthusiasm like the adults they are - I don't run around with wet blankets trying to dampen the fires of hype.

IMO, nothing wrong with hype. BTW, the GW2 hype-meter just went up a 10th of a percent.  I really would like to know who comes up with that number and how.

Dunno... I've seen plenty of GW2 fans in the TOR boards tearing TOR apart nonstop, since well before it launched.  Can't help but feel a little satisfaction in the fact that GW2 is now getting the same treatment, even though I'm interested in the game.

Personally, I really do wish more fans of games would come to realize your comment highlighted above.  Not everyone wants the same thing from a game, and the reality is that a game that meets your expectations fully, and a game that you're bored sick playing, could very well be the same game; it's just a matter of how long you've played it.

That's why some of the games considered by many here to be best in the genre, are games that were never launched(see MEO).

Hey, I finally figured out that hype-meter thing! Cool. I tried to make it go to 11 but had to be satisfied voting it a 10.

Anyway, I'm not saying that GW2 fans can't be haters too. I'm saying that anyone that goes to a game forum of a game they don't like primarlily to cause drama by dissing the game or player expectations has moved into hater territory. 

Originally posted by Meleagar

They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Meleagar

They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.

 

Really who has been in the ANet head office micturating wildly? Or are you referring to the public areas of MMORPG.com, a general MMORPG gaming site where all subforums are open to the public, If that upsets you maybe going to one of the GW2 only sites might suit your temprament more.

Public place or not, haters are still pissing all over the positive threads, while enthusiasts are just creating them.

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Meleagar

They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.

 

Really who has been in the ANet head office micturating wildly? Or are you referring to the public areas of MMORPG.com, a general MMORPG gaming site where all subforums are open to the public, If that upsets you maybe going to one of the GW2 only sites might suit your temprament more.

Public place or not, haters are still pissing all over the positive threads, while enthusiasts are just creating them.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Meleagar

They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.

 

Really who has been in the ANet head office micturating wildly? Or are you referring to the public areas of MMORPG.com, a general MMORPG gaming site where all subforums are open to the public, If that upsets you maybe going to one of the GW2 only sites might suit your temprament more.

Public place or not, haters are still pissing all over the positive threads, while enthusiasts are just creating them.

 

And fanboys are pissing all over the negative threads, while cynics are just creating them. And your point is?

My point is that you didn't read Meleagar's post entirely ;-)

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Meleagar

They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.

 

Really who has been in the ANet head office micturating wildly? Or are you referring to the public areas of MMORPG.com, a general MMORPG gaming site where all subforums are open to the public, If that upsets you maybe going to one of the GW2 only sites might suit your temprament more.

Public place or not, haters are still pissing all over the positive threads, while enthusiasts are just creating them.

 

And fanboys are pissing all over the negative threads, while cynics are just creating them. And your point is?

My point is that you didn't read Meleagar's post entirely ;-)

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Meleagar

They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.

 

Really who has been in the ANet head office micturating wildly? Or are you referring to the public areas of MMORPG.com, a general MMORPG gaming site where all subforums are open to the public, If that upsets you maybe going to one of the GW2 only sites might suit your temprament more.

Public place or not, haters are still pissing all over the positive threads, while enthusiasts are just creating them.

 

And fanboys are pissing all over the negative threads, while cynics are just creating them. And your point is?

My point is that you didn't read Meleagar's post entirely ;-)

 

No, I did, I just took different things from it and made my opinion, just as you did, opinions are what keeps these forums going, I am happy for there to be positive and negative opinions whilst you would prefer a more Stepford Wives type forum experience, different opinions.

You're trying too hard to argue I guess : Meleagar's post was saying that a Fan is someone who never hates, and stay positive. Therefore, a fan starting to pour some negativism against a hater becomes a hater himself. It was the starting point of my argument.

For you, fans pissing over negative threads are still fans. So not only did you not understand that difference we were mentionning, but you also used its mislook as a counter argument. So if you're really trying to counter-argument with me on that point, at least please try to understand 100% what argument it was from the start.

Originally posted by k-damage

You don't get what Meleagar & I mean it seems : a Fan is someone who never hates, and stay positive. Therefore, a fan starting to pour some negativism against a hater becomes a hater himself. It was the starting point of my argument.

For you, fans pissing over negative threads are still fans. So if you're using that totally different base point of view against my point, I can say that you're completely out of scope in this debate.

I don´t think that is 100% correct. I am a fan of many bands and musicians and still doesn´t like all of their songs and CDs.

And I never meet a Star wars fan that doesn´t hate Jar jar, and few enough that like episode 1.

You can be a fan and still be realistic, what you are talking about is a "Fan-atic".

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Meleagar

They don't go into the house of games they don't like and piss all over the carpet, trying to stink up the fun and enthusiasm; if they do, they've crossed over from fan to hater.

 

Really who has been in the ANet head office micturating wildly? Or are you referring to the public areas of MMORPG.com, a general MMORPG gaming site where all subforums are open to the public, If that upsets you maybe going to one of the GW2 only sites might suit your temprament more.

That's a bit of a bullshit, strawman argument, isn't it?  Just because people are free to post anywhere they want, that it absolves them of their asshole behaviour.  It's also not illegal to fart in a crowded elevator, yet only socially maladjusted jackasses would do that.  What stops the rest of us is simple decency.  No rule is required if you have a modicum of respect for other people. 

Sorry, but there's something fundamentally wrong with people who go out of their way to spread the smell of shit around, whether there's a rule against it or not.  You can identify these people by how much time they spend in forums for games they clearly don't like.  It's not enough for them to express a negative view point and move on, they need to stick around and cover the walls with feces before they can take their leave.  These people are not right in the head and trying to justify their activity is the same as promoting it.