Originally posted by Kyelthis

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by bishbosh

*snip*

*snip*

*snip*

*snip*

True, it is clearly my opinion.  You can say it will stay at $60 for the first year I say othewise.  I have no evidence other than the game is "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" and hence could easily support F2P.  I believe when the initial rush of die hards to purchase thier F2P-style game for $60+ is over, Anet will lower the price significantly on the box.

My opinion, yes.

Yes, you have irrefutable evidence that the game is built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind, with all of those xp boosts and keys for chests with buffs in them. Everyone will buy those because honestly, who will even try to play the game without those? Right?

LOL you do know that quote is from Anet not me...

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by RefMinor
Maybe a new term is required rather than P2W, how about GoP, Grind or Pay?

 

Just curious, what are you grinding for?

From what I have read, you get bumped up in WvW, and the PvE has some sort of system for that too. I dont get it.

 

What I don't get is if the game is as optimised against making cash shop purchases as people say then why are ANet going to the trouble and expense of putting the cash shop in?

Time and extra conveince lol.

I shit you not Ref, it's possible to put a cash shop in for those who don't have time and still make what's in it not an actual need and not p2 fucking win or to not get your ass whooped or to exceed those not using it period.

It's possible, but let me guess God didn't really create you to give two shits about the facts, as he didn't create me to shead a tear over this the OP and others shitting out false info.

How can that be possible? You dont know what other players consider a competition or how they are trying to win when they play a MMO. Any advantage can be P2W.

Without advantages a CS will not be very profitable. Thats why most games with a CS sell them.

Oh Lord please tell me what you gonna buy that's gonna set you apart stat wise against other level 80s.

PVE in gw2 is about cooperation

WvWvW, is unbalance, what  are you gonna by xp boosts that only work by killing mobs, would you like to see videos of how much experience you get from killing mobs, the boost don't stack either.

PVP nothing can be bought to even catch up with skills.

Because they infact id say they built the game with microtrasactions in mind, but there is not one single thing, not one, I mean that shit not one, not one, not one, malfunction not one...

damn item in that shop just from leak shit that you will need to fuck someone up who is using it.

I will in fact donate my kidney, after I donate my heart to ANET, I mean I'm already blind as it is, and I must be a fanboy, but I be damn, if I sit here  and watch false shit, it'ss all good to be concerned or skeptic, but I swear to God, thes false ass assumptions, are literaly amusing.

I think while typing, I need some more popcorn and koolaid.

P Diddy said the word himself and no this word does not go to the person I just qouted but it's called bitchassness.

It's flowing through this thread like a river.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by bishbosh

people staunchly defending everything about gw2 is reminding me of all those other fail mmorpgs out there. they all had the same fanboy crowd licking up any crap thrown at them and BAM the game tanks. 

i was intent on prerodering 10th april and now i dont even know if i want to buy the game. i dont want to play a game full of people that will take any crap from the devs/publisher because i know in the long run the game will suck because criticisms will be drowned out with " WOW had the same problems on release", " you havent even played to max level", "go back to WOW" etc etc. 

i dont know if im the only one that gets turned off game by fanboyism, there are probably more people out there so i think its best to take that into consideration and be a bit more welcoming and less aggresive/vile when someone criticises gw2 or questions its "greatness". i would like to see gw2 do well (more compeition=better games for us) but games wont do well if developers cannot hear the players complaints.

I agree with the OP. The GW2 fans are immature and cultish. Every game has these types, some games more so than others. I have followed every major MMORPG on this site since Darkfall. (Darkfall was the reason I actually made an account on this site, not because I wanted to play DF but because its cultish fanbase was absolute morons, and an absolute blast to "troll".) I dont forsee GW2 cultish fans to surpass those of the DF board, but without a doubt they are a close 2nd to DF. Its rather sad.

That being said, nothing that takes place on the forums will deter me from playing a game because when its all said and done forum followers are but a very small fraction of a games player base. I have my reserves about this game, I am not liking what I am hearing, theres been way to many red flags that are just screaming out. I went from definate pre-order to I am going to wait and see what people will say about the game around a month after it launches, especially after the "new game feeling" wears off. Thats where the real reveiws come from. This game isnt going to be the 2nd coming of christ that the cultists make it out to be. But it just makes for free entertainment on the forums when the game launches. 

The wise thing to do if you are on the fence is just wait for it to go F2P.  That is how the game is structured anyway, they just know they can fleece their die hard fans the extra $60+ for the box as well.  The cost of this game will be down to $30 within 3 months, $15 within 6 months, and F2P before their first expansion.

Your crystal ball has a crack in it.

True, it is clearly my opinion.  You can say it will stay at $60 for the first year I say othewise.  I have no evidence other than the game is "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" and hence could easily support F2P.  I believe when the initial rush of die hards to purchase thier F2P-style game for $60+ is over, Anet will lower the price significantly on the box.

My opinion, yes.

Good opinion, but I doubt it will actually go F2P. The price will probably go down in 3-4 months, thats true, but it will not go F2P. GW1 has a stable medium population right now or so I hear, and thats so long after its release and I still hear about people buying it. Not all games which are built with microtransactions in mind are destined to go F2P. (Yes I know GW1 got a cash shop some time after reelease, not from the start. Since it worked out well I think Anet is going to try it again.)

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by RefMinor
Maybe a new term is required rather than P2W, how about GoP, Grind or Pay?

 

Just curious, what are you grinding for?

From what I have read, you get bumped up in WvW, and the PvE has some sort of system for that too. I dont get it.

 

What I don't get is if the game is as optimised against making cash shop purchases as people say then why are ANet going to the trouble and expense of putting the cash shop in?

Time and extra conveince lol.

I shit you not Ref, it's possible to put a cash shop in for those who don't have time and still make what's in it not an actual need and not p2 fucking win or to not get your ass whooped or to exceed those not using it period.

It's possible, but let me guess God didn't really create you to give two shits about the facts, as he didn't create me to shead a tear over this the OP and others shitting out false info.

How can that be possible? You dont know what other players consider a competition or how they are trying to win when they play a MMO. Any advantage can be P2W.

Without advantages a CS will not be very profitable. Thats why most games with a CS sell them.

Oh Lord please tell me what you gonna buy that's gonna set you apart stat wise against other level 80s.

PVE in gw2 is about cooperation

WvWvW, is unbalance, what  are you gonna by xp boosts that only work by killing mobs, would you like to see videos of how much experience you get from killing mobs, the boost don't stack either.

PVP nothing can be bought to even catch up with skills.

Because they infact id say they built the game with microtrasactions in mind, but there is not one single thing, not one, I mean that shit not one, not one, not one, malfunction not one...

damn item in that shop just from leak shit that you will need to fuck someone up who is using it.

I will in fact donate my kidney, after I donate my heart to ANET, I mean I'm already blind as it is, and I must be a fanboy, but I be damn, if I sit here  and watch false shit, it'ss all good to be concerned or skeptic, but I swear to God, thes false ass assumptions, are literaly amusing.

I think while typing, I need some more popcorn and koolaid.

P Diddy said the word himself and no this word does not go to the person I just qouted but it's called bitchassness.

It's flowing through this thread like a river.

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Your "chart" is flawed for the simple fact that the guilds who can actually use RvRvR boosts do not need to buy influence with gold.

Originally posted by Cetra

if you already like GW2, just play the game and enjoy like everyone else fanboy or not.

If you are on the fence or belong to the hate group, it doesnt matter fanboy or not. Because the game doesnt appeal to you in the first place. Using fanboyism as an excuse for hate is weak.

+1 to you Cetra. 

This is what the OP and a few other in this thread should try and understand. If they don't like a certain aspect of the game, in this case the cash shop, then that's fine but using fanboyism as an offensive tool is childish. I don't know if I'm even considered a fanboy of this game since I've been looking at this game with a realistic eye since the reveal. I haven't been all "omg omg arenanet take my money, ect ect". There are a few things that I hope they change myself, but all I can do is hope that they make the right decisions in developing it before launch. That's all any of us can do.

So, to everyone freaking out about the cash shop, chill out a bit, send feedback if you get into the betas, send them an email if you'd like (they do respond to these) community@arena.net.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by RefMinor
 

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Maybe you want to read the preivous pages, as your so called logic had been proved wrong.

Put it short: there is no "boost".

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Your "chart" is flawed for the simple fact that the guilds who can actually use RvRvR boosts do not need to buy influence with gold.

Then why have that mechanic in the game?  They should remove it, as it is the only CLEAR pay2win aspect of the game.  Many people who are diehard GW2 fans think this mechanic should be removed, although they call the advantage "small."

Remove this mechanic if it is not needed.  If it is needed however, then it is clear pay2win.

Originally posted by sapheroith

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by RefMinor
 

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Maybe you want to read the preivous pages, as your so called logic had been proved wrong.

Put it short: there is no "boost".

There most definately are RvRvR boosts with influence.  If you deny this you have no credibility.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by sapheroith

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by RefMinor
 

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Maybe you want to read the preivous pages, as your so called logic had been proved wrong.

Put it short: there is no "boost".

There most definately are RvRvR boosts with influence.  If you deny this you have no credibility.

READ the boosts, REALIZE you are absolutely WRONG, shut up and enjoy a brilliant game.

Peace.

Originally posted by Eir_S

If people could actually put up a good argument, no one would have to defend the game.  But I guess you don't have a problem with all the whiners and trolls.  Too bad for you, don't play the game if you're that one-sided.

Not only that, but the MMORPG community is not even a drop in the bucket of people who will be playing the game.  Miss out on a good game because you read a forum, see if anyone cares.

So let me get this straight. Fanboys fanatically defend games because no one can put up a good argument?

Wow, that has to be one of the most far fetched explanations of fanboyism I have ever heard. Good one! 

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Your "chart" is flawed for the simple fact that the guilds who can actually use RvRvR boosts do not need to buy influence with gold.

Then why have that mechanic in the game?  They should remove it, as it is the only CLEAR pay2win aspect of the game.  Many people who are diehard GW2 fans think this mechanic should be removed, although they call the advantage "small."

Remove this mechanic if it is not needed.  If it is needed however, then it is clear pay2win.

The mechanic is put into place for smaller guilds, those with less than 10 people. Influence doesn't just unlock PvP boosts, it also unlocks guild banks, the ability to buy emblem armor and other stuff like that.

Originally posted by sgel

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by sapheroith

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by RefMinor
 

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Maybe you want to read the preivous pages, as your so called logic had been proved wrong.

Put it short: there is no "boost".

There most definately are RvRvR boosts with influence.  If you deny this you have no credibility.

READ the boosts, REALIZE you are absolutely WRONG, shut up and enjoy a brilliant game.

Peace.

From the GW2 wiki:

Spending influence

Influence can be spent in the guild interface in different categories.:

Art of War

In the Art of War category, guilds may purchase buffs that are useful in WvW.

Summary	Description	Cost	Required Research	Research Time
Research Art of War Level 1	Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 1	500	-	16 hours
+10% Influence for 3 Days	All influence earned in pvp is increased by 10% for 3 days.	100		1 day
Research Art of War Level 2	Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 2	1000		1 day
WvW Fort +10% Experience	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give increased exp to defending allies. Lasts 12 hours.	200		16 hours
WvW Fort +10% Magic Find	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give allies a better chance to discover rare loot. Lasts 12 hours.	200		16 hours
WvW Fort +5 Supply	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Supply to all allies. Lasts 12 hours.	200		16 hours
WvW Fort +5 Karma	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give karma to defending allies for each kill near the fort. Lasts 12 hours.	200		16 hours
Research Art of War Level 3	Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 3	5000		3 days
WvW Fort +40 Vitality	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Vitality to all allies. Lasts 12 hours.	200		1 day
WvW Fort +40 Toughness	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Toughness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours.	200		1 day
WvW Fort +40 Power	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Power to all allies. Lasts 12 hours.	200		1 day
WvW Fort +40 Precision	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Precision to all allies. Lasts 12 hours.	200		1 day
Research Art of War Level 4	Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 4	?		? days
WvW Fort +10% Healing	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Healing to all allies. Lasts 12 hours.	200		1 day
WvW Fort +10% Player Health	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Health to all allies. Lasts 12 hours.	200		1 day
Guild Catapult	Create a Catapult Siege engine that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture)	500		1 day
Research Art of War Level 5	Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 5	?		? days
WvW Fort +5% Swiftness	For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Swiftness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours.	500		1 day
Guild Siege Suit	Create a Siege Suit that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture)	500		1 day

Originally posted by sapheroith

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Hurvart

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by RefMinor
 

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Maybe you want to read the preivous pages, as your so called logic had been proved wrong.

Put it short: there is no "boost".

Play with guild > Earn influence > WvWvW boost = Play to just get boosts.

Cash > gems > Gold from other people who will have enough > Buy drinks that you can get get with silver > get influence > RvRvR Boosts

First you gotta unlock the tiers

You also got to spend huge amounts of cash

You also don't need to unless your iq isn't high because all you need is a decent size guild and just play and you get influence

Can't stack the important ones like stat ones

It only effects a keep for an certaint amount of time

Yes his logic has and will for ever be proved wrong but it's why he has his head deep in the sand, he can't listen even if he wanted to.

You guys will almost be paying for an aprtment and that'f if you get gold for the gems you sale.

People got to have gold to get gems, people will of course have to get gems for gold, how ever things in the cash shop is obtainable or unlockale in game as well.

You'll find boosts scattered in mobs, that don't stack.

XP boosts are only for mobs, so if you sitting there grinding mobs but not DE's someone with no boosts will level up faster than you.

Sieges are cheap by the way, and they require supply, you also need supply to upgrade keeps and defenses and offense.

This is just some extra stuff to get rid of any further claims.

Oh also your guild must capture and defend a keep in orde for those boosts to work

Also no boosts give you a pass from an ass whooping.

For got about that heartless pointed it out.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Your "chart" is flawed for the simple fact that the guilds who can actually use RvRvR boosts do not need to buy influence with gold.

Then why have that mechanic in the game?  They should remove it, as it is the only CLEAR pay2win aspect of the game.  Many people who are diehard GW2 fans think this mechanic should be removed, although they call the advantage "small."

Remove this mechanic if it is not needed.  If it is needed however, then it is clear pay2win.

The mechanic is put into place for smaller guilds, those with less than 10 people. Influence doesn't just unlock PvP boosts, it also unlocks guild banks, the ability to buy emblem armor and other stuff like that.

But the point is, it DOES provide PVP boosts, hence the pay2win aspect:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Your "chart" is flawed for the simple fact that the guilds who can actually use RvRvR boosts do not need to buy influence with gold.

Then why have that mechanic in the game?  They should remove it, as it is the only CLEAR pay2win aspect of the game.  Many people who are diehard GW2 fans think this mechanic should be removed, although they call the advantage "small."

Remove this mechanic if it is not needed.  If it is needed however, then it is clear pay2win.

The mechanic is put into place for smaller guilds, those with less than 10 people. Influence doesn't just unlock PvP boosts, it also unlocks guild banks, the ability to buy emblem armor and other stuff like that.

But the point is, it DOES provide PVP boosts, hence the pay2win aspect:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

It does not. Because in order for RvRvR boosts to work, the guild needs to capture aand defend a keep and that requires a lot of people. In other words, only big guilds will be able to capture and defend keeps and big guilds do not need to purchase influence with gold.

While I certainly wouldn't base my choice on the forums the op's point is not without merit.

My favorite recent one is this.

Cash shop leak shows xp boosts in the cash shop.

Average forum response "Only stupid people will buy those cause of the awesome sidekicking up feature in pve which truly makes GW2 a different kind of game and only people who don't understand how the game works would want to buy those exp boosts'

ANet announces that the side kicking feature will not be implemented in pve.

Average forum response "This is an awesome change..they took the one feature I didn't like in the game and removed it"

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

No not EXP boosts, real actual pay2win boosts in RvRvR:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

Your "chart" is flawed for the simple fact that the guilds who can actually use RvRvR boosts do not need to buy influence with gold.

Then why have that mechanic in the game?  They should remove it, as it is the only CLEAR pay2win aspect of the game.  Many people who are diehard GW2 fans think this mechanic should be removed, although they call the advantage "small."

Remove this mechanic if it is not needed.  If it is needed however, then it is clear pay2win.

The mechanic is put into place for smaller guilds, those with less than 10 people. Influence doesn't just unlock PvP boosts, it also unlocks guild banks, the ability to buy emblem armor and other stuff like that.

But the point is, it DOES provide PVP boosts, hence the pay2win aspect:

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

It does not. Because in order for RvRvR boosts to work, the guild needs to capture aand defend a keep and that requires a lot of people. In other words, only big guilds will be able to capture and defend keeps and big guilds do not need to purchase influence with gold.

Keeps can be captured fairly easily, especially off-hours.  And the pay2win boosts that you can buy will help you defend it once you capture it.  Sure, overwhelming zerg defeats anything but that is true for any game.  Overwhelming zerg defeats an "uber sword of pwnage" as well but that doesn't change the fact that it is pay2win.

cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts = Pay2Win

This is true no matter the contortions you go through to pretend it isn't.

Originally posted by evicton

While I certainly wouldn't base my choice on the forums the op's point is not without merit.

My favorite recent one is this.

 

Cash shop leak shows xp boosts in the cash shop.

 

Average forum response "Only stupid people will buy those cause of the awesome sidekicking up feature in pve which truly makes GW2 a different kind of game and only people who don't understand how the game works would want to buy those exp boosts'

 

ANet announces that the side kicking feature will not be implemented in pve.

Average forum response "This is an awesome change..they took the one feature I didn't like in the game and removed it"

Exactly, the fans with blinders on don't see the tweaking of game mechanics to push people to cash shop is already happening.  They recently added the ability to become a squad commander as well, although as Anet said this will cost "a LOT" of gold.

cash->gems->gold...

Originally posted by bishbosh

people staunchly defending everything about gw2 is reminding me of all those other fail mmorpgs out there. they all had the same fanboy crowd licking up any crap thrown at them and BAM the game tanks. 

i was intent on prerodering 10th april and now i dont even know if i want to buy the game. i dont want to play a game full of people that will take any crap from the devs/publisher because i know in the long run the game will suck because criticisms will be drowned out with " WOW had the same problems on release", " you havent even played to max level", "go back to WOW" etc etc. 

i dont know if im the only one that gets turned off game by fanboyism, there are probably more people out there so i think its best to take that into consideration and be a bit more welcoming and less aggresive/vile when someone criticises gw2 or questions its "greatness". i would like to see gw2 do well (more compeition=better games for us) but games wont do well if developers cannot hear the players complaints.

Man I hate posts like this, usually they are done by someone who thinks there point of view is better and is aggitated that no one seems to agree with them. Due to this percieved wrong they decide that the game is going to fail because there is just an over whelming amount of sheep that just lap up everything with a grin regardless of how bad it is. 

The whole "If you don't agree with me then you are a troll/moron/shill/fanboi or w/e" is just a bad choice if you want to discuss anything or if you simply want people to listen to what you have to say.

It would have helped a lot more if you had given specific examples as well this way we could better judge the validity of this thread.