Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by sammyeli

You can only carry 10 supply, seige weapon blueprint only costs 10 silver, which you can make by the time you are level 3 and you can purchase more than 5 blue prints by the time you are level 8 if you are doing this solo and not with a guild.

 

You can purchage the most expensive blueprint which is 1 gold and some odd silver by the time you are level 13 or 14 if you are solo that is and not with a guild that is supporting you. 

 

Now for the rest of you please check posting history before you get trolled and lets gtfo out of this thread.

ive heard similar stuff like this before in pay2win game forums. "oh you can always farm in game blah blah etc etc"

ask yourself this

does RMT in anyway improve the game?

no it doesnt. 

developers spent your money to develop the RMT system that could have been used to make the game better.

the RMT system will only make it easier for gold farmers to function if it doesnt then gold farmer will fucntion underground like the normally do.

RMT system is a strong base for implementation of pay2win gameplay

RMT was a big lie, they said only cosmetic items. no in game advantage no matter how small

Gems allow any person to buy anything they want in the cash shop with in-game gold. Want more character slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want more bank slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want to change your character's look? Buy some gems with gold.

The biggest argument against the cash shop right now is that it is pay-to-win and so far nobody has proven that it is.

And this view was EXACTLY my point I made a few posts ago how RMT is now being used to pretty much justify anything.  Now if Anet added the "Uber sword of pwnage" into the cash shop many would say "Hey just buy some gems with gold that isn't pay2win"

I'm sorry it is so hard for you all to see how you are twisting everything to avoid the pay2win stamp on GW2.  By your definition, any game that has this cash->gems->gold->gems type mechanic can not EVER be pay2win no matter how egregious the items are or how much gold a gem is worth.  You have pretty much now removed the pay2win label off of 95% of those games that were once considered pay2win prior to GW2...

 

If ArenaNet did that then the game would truly be Pay-to-win and I doubt that people would try to justify it. As it is now, people like you are using sketchy and close-minded logic to try to justify your own views that happen to be completely wrong.

 

Yea but they would never need to put an "Uber Sword of Pwnage" into the cash shop.  They'd just put it into the game.  You could still buy it with real life money.  You just buy gems, sell them at auction, get enough gold, and buy it in game no problem.   And yes, the reverse works too even if they put it in the cash shop. 

 

Regardless, the real issue here is how that would affect Realm VS Realm PVP.  Because as far as I know you can take your gear and all into the Realm VS Realm.   Which could potentially unbalance it. 

 

That is what the people fussing about the cash shop need to center in on.  Its the valid argument here.  Everything else is gravy since in PVE some guy who has bought all sorts of wonderful armor is just an asset to you.  He or she will be a huge help so the more the merrier. 

 

However in Realm VS Realm yes, it could potentially be a problem.   Maybe.  We'll just have to see.  But in no other way does it affect competition.  Thats it.  So for those of you gripping about the cash shop hone in properly on its potential problem.  And as far as I know, Ive just told you what it is.  Then we can discuss the potentials of that.  Not this over generalized stuff that leads nowhere.  REALM VS REALM is the only real potential problem here.  That is all. 

Part of your issue in understanding the problem is that there will not be an uber sword of pwnage. Gear does not work like that. As far as I can see, everyone will pretty much be in equivalent gear given level 80. It is a major reason why their cash shop might actually have a thread of solid decency.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by sammyeli

You can only carry 10 supply, seige weapon blueprint only costs 10 silver, which you can make by the time you are level 3 and you can purchase more than 5 blue prints by the time you are level 8 if you are doing this solo and not with a guild.

 

You can purchage the most expensive blueprint which is 1 gold and some odd silver by the time you are level 13 or 14 if you are solo that is and not with a guild that is supporting you. 

 

Now for the rest of you please check posting history before you get trolled and lets gtfo out of this thread.

ive heard similar stuff like this before in pay2win game forums. "oh you can always farm in game blah blah etc etc"

ask yourself this

does RMT in anyway improve the game?

no it doesnt. 

developers spent your money to develop the RMT system that could have been used to make the game better.

the RMT system will only make it easier for gold farmers to function if it doesnt then gold farmer will fucntion underground like the normally do.

RMT system is a strong base for implementation of pay2win gameplay

RMT was a big lie, they said only cosmetic items. no in game advantage no matter how small

Gems allow any person to buy anything they want in the cash shop with in-game gold. Want more character slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want more bank slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want to change your character's look? Buy some gems with gold.

The biggest argument against the cash shop right now is that it is pay-to-win and so far nobody has proven that it is.

And this view was EXACTLY my point I made a few posts ago how RMT is now being used to pretty much justify anything.  Now if Anet added the "Uber sword of pwnage" into the cash shop many would say "Hey just buy some gems with gold that isn't pay2win"

I'm sorry it is so hard for you all to see how you are twisting everything to avoid the pay2win stamp on GW2.  By your definition, any game that has this cash->gems->gold->gems type mechanic can not EVER be pay2win no matter how egregious the items are or how much gold a gem is worth.  You have pretty much now removed the pay2win label off of 95% of those games that were once considered pay2win prior to GW2...

 

If ArenaNet did that then the game would truly be Pay-to-win and I doubt that people would try to justify it. As it is now, people like you are using sketchy and close-minded logic to try to justify your own views that happen to be completely wrong.

But how could the "uber sword of pwnage" be pay2win by your logic?  It is obtainable in-game via grinding for gold and buying gems is it not?  I'm just extending Anet's and its fans argument to its logical conclusion.  That "Nothing will be in the cash shop that cannot otherwise be obtained through the investment of time."  Now that Anet has deviously added this gems->gold->gems equivalency, ANYTHING they put in the cash shop fits their new cash shop philosophy.  Even an "uber sword of pwnage."

It hasn't. And that is why you sound ridiculous.

But they HAVE added RvRvR boosts that can be purchased with gold.  They have made the ability to be a squad commander require "lots" of gold.  They have reimplemented the repair mechanic.  They removed the sidekicking up feature to make EXP boosters more valuable.

You act as if they have done nothing but cosmetic items, when they clearly are going down a very dangerous path already.  At best the Anet defenders say "well it is a small advantage" but that is MUCH different than saying "no advantage"

Wow, so something can be bought in-game with in-game currency?! That is SOOOOOOO pay2win! You've totally made me see the light of your impeccable logic. I will grovel before you and decry ArenaNet as the foul criminals they are.

/end sarcasm

You should go take a nap. Come back when you have an example that might come anywhere near pay2win and then maybe I can take you seriously.

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by sammyeli

You can only carry 10 supply, seige weapon blueprint only costs 10 silver, which you can make by the time you are level 3 and you can purchase more than 5 blue prints by the time you are level 8 if you are doing this solo and not with a guild.

 

You can purchage the most expensive blueprint which is 1 gold and some odd silver by the time you are level 13 or 14 if you are solo that is and not with a guild that is supporting you. 

 

Now for the rest of you please check posting history before you get trolled and lets gtfo out of this thread.

ive heard similar stuff like this before in pay2win game forums. "oh you can always farm in game blah blah etc etc"

ask yourself this

does RMT in anyway improve the game?

no it doesnt. 

developers spent your money to develop the RMT system that could have been used to make the game better.

the RMT system will only make it easier for gold farmers to function if it doesnt then gold farmer will fucntion underground like the normally do.

RMT system is a strong base for implementation of pay2win gameplay

RMT was a big lie, they said only cosmetic items. no in game advantage no matter how small

Gems allow any person to buy anything they want in the cash shop with in-game gold. Want more character slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want more bank slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want to change your character's look? Buy some gems with gold.

The biggest argument against the cash shop right now is that it is pay-to-win and so far nobody has proven that it is.

And this view was EXACTLY my point I made a few posts ago how RMT is now being used to pretty much justify anything.  Now if Anet added the "Uber sword of pwnage" into the cash shop many would say "Hey just buy some gems with gold that isn't pay2win"

I'm sorry it is so hard for you all to see how you are twisting everything to avoid the pay2win stamp on GW2.  By your definition, any game that has this cash->gems->gold->gems type mechanic can not EVER be pay2win no matter how egregious the items are or how much gold a gem is worth.  You have pretty much now removed the pay2win label off of 95% of those games that were once considered pay2win prior to GW2...

 

If ArenaNet did that then the game would truly be Pay-to-win and I doubt that people would try to justify it. As it is now, people like you are using sketchy and close-minded logic to try to justify your own views that happen to be completely wrong.

 

Yea but they would never need to put an "Uber Sword of Pwnage" into the cash shop.  They'd just put it into the game.  You could still buy it with real life money.  You just buy gems, sell them at auction, get enough gold, and buy it in game no problem.   And yes, the reverse works too even if they put it in the cash shop. 

 

Regardless, the real issue here is how that would affect Realm VS Realm PVP.  Because as far as I know you can take your gear and all into the Realm VS Realm.   Which could potentially unbalance it. 

 

That is what the people fussing about the cash shop need to center in on.  Its the valid argument here.  Everything else is gravy since in PVE some guy who has bought all sorts of wonderful armor is just an asset to you.  He or she will be a huge help so the more the merrier. 

 

However in Realm VS Realm yes, it could potentially be a problem.   Maybe.  We'll just have to see.  But in no other way does it affect competition.  Thats it.  So for those of you gripping about the cash shop hone in properly on its potential problem.  And as far as I know, Ive just told you what it is.  Then we can discuss the potentials of that.  Not this over generalized stuff that leads nowhere.  REALM VS REALM is the only real potential problem here.  That is all. 

I have identified TWO major issues with the cash shop.  The first is the RvRvR pay2win aspect you have just described.  That is by far my biggest gripe.  But I have a second gripe as well that has nothing to do with pay2win.  It is the annoyingly crass mystic chests that will be clogging my inventory, in essence clogging my inventory with advertisements to the cash shop.  I find that distasteful as well (but not pay2win).

My own opinion hasn't been changed, its just made me amazingly more skeptical of this game. Whenever a game sets out to destroy some old facet of MMO gaming they usually fail miserably, and just recreate said facet but in a more pretty way (hence not getting rid of it at all).

Pre-MMO launches is like psychological warfare. I've made a conscious effort not to be excited about Guild Wars in an effort to  be "suprised" if it really says what its going to do, yet I don't really feel I've achieved this, lol.

In any case, all the fanboyism has made me cynical.

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by sammyeli

You can only carry 10 supply, seige weapon blueprint only costs 10 silver, which you can make by the time you are level 3 and you can purchase more than 5 blue prints by the time you are level 8 if you are doing this solo and not with a guild.

 

You can purchage the most expensive blueprint which is 1 gold and some odd silver by the time you are level 13 or 14 if you are solo that is and not with a guild that is supporting you. 

 

Now for the rest of you please check posting history before you get trolled and lets gtfo out of this thread.

ive heard similar stuff like this before in pay2win game forums. "oh you can always farm in game blah blah etc etc"

ask yourself this

does RMT in anyway improve the game?

no it doesnt. 

developers spent your money to develop the RMT system that could have been used to make the game better.

the RMT system will only make it easier for gold farmers to function if it doesnt then gold farmer will fucntion underground like the normally do.

RMT system is a strong base for implementation of pay2win gameplay

RMT was a big lie, they said only cosmetic items. no in game advantage no matter how small

Gems allow any person to buy anything they want in the cash shop with in-game gold. Want more character slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want more bank slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want to change your character's look? Buy some gems with gold.

The biggest argument against the cash shop right now is that it is pay-to-win and so far nobody has proven that it is.

And this view was EXACTLY my point I made a few posts ago how RMT is now being used to pretty much justify anything.  Now if Anet added the "Uber sword of pwnage" into the cash shop many would say "Hey just buy some gems with gold that isn't pay2win"

I'm sorry it is so hard for you all to see how you are twisting everything to avoid the pay2win stamp on GW2.  By your definition, any game that has this cash->gems->gold->gems type mechanic can not EVER be pay2win no matter how egregious the items are or how much gold a gem is worth.  You have pretty much now removed the pay2win label off of 95% of those games that were once considered pay2win prior to GW2...

 

If ArenaNet did that then the game would truly be Pay-to-win and I doubt that people would try to justify it. As it is now, people like you are using sketchy and close-minded logic to try to justify your own views that happen to be completely wrong.

But how could the "uber sword of pwnage" be pay2win by your logic?  It is obtainable in-game via grinding for gold and buying gems is it not?  I'm just extending Anet's and its fans argument to its logical conclusion.  That "Nothing will be in the cash shop that cannot otherwise be obtained through the investment of time."  Now that Anet has deviously added this gems->gold->gems equivalency, ANYTHING they put in the cash shop fits their new cash shop philosophy.  Even an "uber sword of pwnage."

It hasn't. And that is why you sound ridiculous.

But they HAVE added RvRvR boosts that can be purchased with gold.  They have made the ability to be a squad commander require "lots" of gold.  They have reimplemented the repair mechanic.  They removed the sidekicking up feature to make EXP boosters more valuable.

You act as if they have done nothing but cosmetic items, when they clearly are going down a very dangerous path already.  At best the Anet defenders say "well it is a small advantage" but that is MUCH different than saying "no advantage"

Wow, so something can be bought in-game with in-game currency?! That is SOOOOOOO pay2win! You've totally made me see the light of your impeccable logic. I will grovel before you and decry ArenaNet as the foul criminals they are.

/end sarcasm

You should go take a nap. Come back when you have an example that might come anywhere near pay2win and then maybe I can take you seriously.

Ok, we are getting somewhere now.  You admit you can buy advantage with gold.  Now, wait for it, you can buy gems for real life cash and sell them in game for gold.

Understand now?  Or do I have to continue repeating my cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts flow chart?

I just dont get why these people here devote countless hours of their time to defend ArenaNet's decision to make GW2 a cash shop focused Pay 2 Win game. Anyone with half a brain can read between the lines with this game but they cant or wont accept the facts. This leads me to 3 conclusions.

1. They are so emotionally invested in the game that they cant accept that it isnt perfect and gaming nirvana so it makes them angry and they ravenously post on here and attack other people with valid concerns about the game because deep down they feel cheated and lied too and wanna lash out at someone.

2. They are forum trolls and know what the score is so they come here to stir up shit and cause trouble by pretending the game isnt P2W. They know that there are still lots of naive fanboys left who havent been able to accept the truth so they get them all worked up.

3. They are paid ANet employeers here to act as interference and they want to shout down those MMO gamers who attempt to tell the truth about their game and how it is actually pay 2 win when they dont want people realizing this truth.

Its pretty sad that we cant get truthful, constuctive, and helpful feedback on this game with all 3 of these types of people doing whatever they can to drown out the truth and facts about GW2. The mods here should be more observant and punish/ban these forum parasites so MMORPG.com can be a more healthy and helpful place for true MMO gamers.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

I have identified TWO major issues with the cash shop.  The first is the RvRvR pay2win aspect you have just described.  That is by far my biggest gripe.  But I have a second gripe as well that has nothing to do with pay2win.  It is the annoyingly crass mystic chests that will be clogging my inventory, in essence clogging my inventory with advertisements to the cash shop.  I find that distasteful as well (but not pay2win).

I agree both issues are entirely valid.   Might be some of the only truly valid points I've seen. 

The Realm Vs Realm is the major issue of the cash shop which most, even the ones that complain seem to rarely hit upon and I wish they would more often if they're going to make the effort to raise concern. 

As far as the chests, who knows how thats going to go.  If I see them dropping entirely often and all the time, thats going to REALLY suck and aggitate me.   I have no ideas if the keys can be found in the world and they might could be I guess.  Thought I read somewhere that they did.  But you damn well know the chests are going to out do key drops if thats the case.  There's going to be more chests than drops that are keys.  Otherwise it just makes no sense. 

Can keys be sold at Auction.  Guess if so that could help some.  Can the chests be sold at auction if you dont want to mess with it?  I suppose that could help some too. 

All I can hope is that they arent annoying and very over abundant or I'll flip my wig. 

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Ok, we are getting somewhere now.  You admit you can buy advantage with gold.  Now, wait for it, you can buy gems for real life cash and sell them in game for gold.

Understand now?  Or do I have to continue repeating my cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts flow chart?

Your "chart" is flawed for the simple fact that the guilds who can actually use RvRvR boosts do not need to buy influence with gold.

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I just dont get why these people here devote countless hours of their time to defend ArenaNet's decision to make GW2 a cash shop focused Pay 2 Win game. Anyone with half a brain can read between the lines with this game but they cant or wont accept the facts. This leads me to 3 conclusions.

1. They are so emotionally invested in the game that they cant accept that it isnt perfect and gaming nirvana so it makes them angry and they ravenously post on here and attack other people with valid concerns about the game because deep down they feel cheated and lied too and wanna lash out at someone.

2. They are forum trolls and know what the score is so they come here to stir up shit and cause trouble by pretending the game isnt P2W. They know that there are still lots of naive fanboys left who havent been able to accept the truth so they get them all worked up.

3. They are paid ANet employeers here to act as interference and they want to shout down those MMO gamers who attempt to tell the truth about their game and how it is actually pay 2 win when they dont want people realizing this truth.

 

Its pretty sad that we cant get truthful, constuctive, and helpful feedback on this game with all 3 of these types of people doing whatever they can to drown out the truth and facts about GW2. The mods here should be more observant and punish/ban these forum parasites so MMORPG.com can be a more healthy and helpful place for true MMO gamers.

Likely you arent raising the right concerns, or making valid arguments.  Which yes, will get you laughed at. 

The post you just made is entirely non constructive, contains no real decent information, and just insults members of the community.  Its entirely worthless and you just wasted time writing it.  Pointless. 

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by sammyeli

You can only carry 10 supply, seige weapon blueprint only costs 10 silver, which you can make by the time you are level 3 and you can purchase more than 5 blue prints by the time you are level 8 if you are doing this solo and not with a guild.

 

You can purchage the most expensive blueprint which is 1 gold and some odd silver by the time you are level 13 or 14 if you are solo that is and not with a guild that is supporting you. 

 

Now for the rest of you please check posting history before you get trolled and lets gtfo out of this thread.

ive heard similar stuff like this before in pay2win game forums. "oh you can always farm in game blah blah etc etc"

ask yourself this

does RMT in anyway improve the game?

no it doesnt. 

developers spent your money to develop the RMT system that could have been used to make the game better.

the RMT system will only make it easier for gold farmers to function if it doesnt then gold farmer will fucntion underground like the normally do.

RMT system is a strong base for implementation of pay2win gameplay

RMT was a big lie, they said only cosmetic items. no in game advantage no matter how small

Gems allow any person to buy anything they want in the cash shop with in-game gold. Want more character slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want more bank slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want to change your character's look? Buy some gems with gold.

The biggest argument against the cash shop right now is that it is pay-to-win and so far nobody has proven that it is.

And this view was EXACTLY my point I made a few posts ago how RMT is now being used to pretty much justify anything.  Now if Anet added the "Uber sword of pwnage" into the cash shop many would say "Hey just buy some gems with gold that isn't pay2win"

I'm sorry it is so hard for you all to see how you are twisting everything to avoid the pay2win stamp on GW2.  By your definition, any game that has this cash->gems->gold->gems type mechanic can not EVER be pay2win no matter how egregious the items are or how much gold a gem is worth.  You have pretty much now removed the pay2win label off of 95% of those games that were once considered pay2win prior to GW2...

 

If ArenaNet did that then the game would truly be Pay-to-win and I doubt that people would try to justify it. As it is now, people like you are using sketchy and close-minded logic to try to justify your own views that happen to be completely wrong.

But how could the "uber sword of pwnage" be pay2win by your logic?  It is obtainable in-game via grinding for gold and buying gems is it not?  I'm just extending Anet's and its fans argument to its logical conclusion.  That "Nothing will be in the cash shop that cannot otherwise be obtained through the investment of time."  Now that Anet has deviously added this gems->gold->gems equivalency, ANYTHING they put in the cash shop fits their new cash shop philosophy.  Even an "uber sword of pwnage."

It hasn't. And that is why you sound ridiculous.

But they HAVE added RvRvR boosts that can be purchased with gold.  They have made the ability to be a squad commander require "lots" of gold.  They have reimplemented the repair mechanic.  They removed the sidekicking up feature to make EXP boosters more valuable.

You act as if they have done nothing but cosmetic items, when they clearly are going down a very dangerous path already.  At best the Anet defenders say "well it is a small advantage" but that is MUCH different than saying "no advantage"

Wow, so something can be bought in-game with in-game currency?! That is SOOOOOOO pay2win! You've totally made me see the light of your impeccable logic. I will grovel before you and decry ArenaNet as the foul criminals they are.

/end sarcasm

You should go take a nap. Come back when you have an example that might come anywhere near pay2win and then maybe I can take you seriously.

Ok, we are getting somewhere now.  You admit you can buy advantage with gold.  Now, wait for it, you can buy gems for real life cash and sell them in game for gold.

Understand now?  Or do I have to continue repeating my cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts flow chart?

Your logic is comical. I buy a piece of armor on the AH with gold and suddenly im labeled as "pay2win". Its like i cant spent my gold however i want ingame.

Is very likely that this game will go the way of SWTOR. There really is no depth in this game. Everything here we have pretty much seen before. Massive sandboxes backed by creative companies are the future.

I do love ANET but i do not hype GW2 to other people

after the game is released..  and I like it..  I'll hype it up

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by sammyeli

You can only carry 10 supply, seige weapon blueprint only costs 10 silver, which you can make by the time you are level 3 and you can purchase more than 5 blue prints by the time you are level 8 if you are doing this solo and not with a guild.

 

You can purchage the most expensive blueprint which is 1 gold and some odd silver by the time you are level 13 or 14 if you are solo that is and not with a guild that is supporting you. 

 

Now for the rest of you please check posting history before you get trolled and lets gtfo out of this thread.

ive heard similar stuff like this before in pay2win game forums. "oh you can always farm in game blah blah etc etc"

ask yourself this

does RMT in anyway improve the game?

no it doesnt. 

developers spent your money to develop the RMT system that could have been used to make the game better.

the RMT system will only make it easier for gold farmers to function if it doesnt then gold farmer will fucntion underground like the normally do.

RMT system is a strong base for implementation of pay2win gameplay

RMT was a big lie, they said only cosmetic items. no in game advantage no matter how small

Gems allow any person to buy anything they want in the cash shop with in-game gold. Want more character slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want more bank slots? Buy some gems with gold. Want to change your character's look? Buy some gems with gold.

The biggest argument against the cash shop right now is that it is pay-to-win and so far nobody has proven that it is.

And this view was EXACTLY my point I made a few posts ago how RMT is now being used to pretty much justify anything.  Now if Anet added the "Uber sword of pwnage" into the cash shop many would say "Hey just buy some gems with gold that isn't pay2win"

I'm sorry it is so hard for you all to see how you are twisting everything to avoid the pay2win stamp on GW2.  By your definition, any game that has this cash->gems->gold->gems type mechanic can not EVER be pay2win no matter how egregious the items are or how much gold a gem is worth.  You have pretty much now removed the pay2win label off of 95% of those games that were once considered pay2win prior to GW2...

 

If ArenaNet did that then the game would truly be Pay-to-win and I doubt that people would try to justify it. As it is now, people like you are using sketchy and close-minded logic to try to justify your own views that happen to be completely wrong.

But how could the "uber sword of pwnage" be pay2win by your logic?  It is obtainable in-game via grinding for gold and buying gems is it not?  I'm just extending Anet's and its fans argument to its logical conclusion.  That "Nothing will be in the cash shop that cannot otherwise be obtained through the investment of time."  Now that Anet has deviously added this gems->gold->gems equivalency, ANYTHING they put in the cash shop fits their new cash shop philosophy.  Even an "uber sword of pwnage."

It hasn't. And that is why you sound ridiculous.

But they HAVE added RvRvR boosts that can be purchased with gold.  They have made the ability to be a squad commander require "lots" of gold.  They have reimplemented the repair mechanic.  They removed the sidekicking up feature to make EXP boosters more valuable.

You act as if they have done nothing but cosmetic items, when they clearly are going down a very dangerous path already.  At best the Anet defenders say "well it is a small advantage" but that is MUCH different than saying "no advantage"

Wow, so something can be bought in-game with in-game currency?! That is SOOOOOOO pay2win! You've totally made me see the light of your impeccable logic. I will grovel before you and decry ArenaNet as the foul criminals they are.

/end sarcasm

You should go take a nap. Come back when you have an example that might come anywhere near pay2win and then maybe I can take you seriously.

Ok, we are getting somewhere now.  You admit you can buy advantage with gold.  Now, wait for it, you can buy gems for real life cash and sell them in game for gold.

Understand now?  Or do I have to continue repeating my cash->gems->gold->influence->RvRvRboosts flow chart?