Actually, anyone can see that the link you posted provides advantages and those advantages can still be purchased through in-game currency... so I'm wondering how it feels to never get anywhere in all your months of arguing.

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.

 

Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

 

So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.

I shan't. I'll say what I've been saying from the start.

 

Show me what's in the boxes. Show me the percentile chances of getting x item to be the thing you loot from them. Show me whether that item can be earned in game, and the chances of difficulty to do it.

 

ALL of those factors make a big difference. If the boxes are a 100% chance of dropping something  more powerful than anyone else can ever get to the point where no one else can compete with the owner, you are right. If it's totally random and I mighta wasted x dollars on some crappy uncommon loot I coulda got for 2 seconds running around in the world...then who cares? Yes they're going to make it drop some decent loot as an incentive, but HOW decent, and HOW likely are you to get something you specifically as a -insert class here- can use?

 

Also, are the keys obtainable in game as well?

I read somewhere you can unlock the chests without buying from cash shop aswell, it was somthing on the line of spwning somone that last 5 minutes which can opens chest (and some other things) So you can save up all youre chests and summon the thing and get him to open them all for you.

It's not pay to win evil, it's gambling evil. 

Here's a video explaining the evil. 

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box

I just choose not to gamble XD

Originally posted by Eir_S

Actually, anyone can see that the link you posted provides advantages and those advantages can still be purchased through in-game currency... so I'm wondering how it feels to never get anywhere in all your months of arguing.

You do realize that many of the Korean MMO grinders work the exact same way.  That line of argument doesn't work, unless we want to redefine the Korean grinder as an esport LOL.

You should know by now that any game with a cash shop ends up being pay 2 win later on. The keys to open chests is just the first step in a process, see this happen all the time. They have to put some stuff in the cash shop that has a pay 2 win aspect to it, mostly for the pvptards that will spend 100 bucks just to do 1% more damage than someone else, if you don't believe me look at pvp based f2p with cash shop titles, the stuff that sells the most is anything that gives advantages. But to be honest your prob making a bigger deal of it than you need to, fallen earth for example has these kinds of chests, and the chests really contain nothing you can't get in the game normally, it just has it in one easy to open package, its essentally a time saver, the best one is the red titanium one in fallen earth and it has semi-hard to come by crafting mats usually, but doesn't really offer much of an advantage in the long run.

But as I have said more than once in these forums, GW2 will end up turning into a pay2win title, because thats where the money is if your going to run the game via a cash shop, its just how it is so get used to it. If they allow the cash shop items to be sold for ingame funds, then that really nullifys any advantage they have, since you can just farm gold or whatever for it.

For the Record, WvW is inheritantly imbalanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

WvW is imbalanced. Get over it.

If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

Originally posted by Kreedz

For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

 

Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

 

WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

 

If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

1) Bring more people

2) Avoid that keep

3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

Originally posted by Siveria

You should know by now that any game with a cash shop ends up being pay 2 win later on. The keys to open chests is just the first step in a process, see this happen all the time. They have to put some stuff in the cash shop that has a pay 2 win aspect to it, mostly for the pvptards that will spend 100 bucks just to do 1% more damage than someone else, if you don't believe me look at pvp based f2p with cash shop titles, the stuff that sells the most is anything that gives advantages. But to be honest your prob making a bigger deal of it than you need to, fallen earth for example has these kinds of chests, and the chests really contain nothing you can't get in the game normally, it just has it in one easy to open package, its essentally a time saver, the best one is the red titanium one in fallen earth and it has semi-hard to come by crafting mats usually, but doesn't really offer much of an advantage in the long run.

But as I have said more than once in these forums, GW2 will end up turning into a pay2win title, because thats where the money is if your going to run the game via a cash shop, its just how it is so get used to it. If they allow the cash shop items to be sold for ingame funds, then that really nullifys any advantage they have, since you can just farm gold or whatever for it.

Know all that you do you should've played the Mega Million /sarcasm.

Out of curiousity, has Fallen Earth gone P2W? You said they have the same things as these chests yet don't offer any true advantage, or rather that you can't obtain in-game which isn't in any form P2W. Most games you see that are P2W are your standard F2P games that you just download. So..

Originally posted by Siveria

You should know by now that any game with a cash shop ends up being pay 2 win later on. The keys to open chests is just the first step in a process, see this happen all the time. They have to put some stuff in the cash shop that has a pay 2 win aspect to it, mostly for the pvptards that will spend 100 bucks just to do 1% more damage than someone else, if you don't believe me look at pvp based f2p with cash shop titles, the stuff that sells the most is anything that gives advantages. But to be honest your prob making a bigger deal of it than you need to, fallen earth for example has these kinds of chests, and the chests really contain nothing you can't get in the game normally, it just has it in one easy to open package, its essentally a time saver, the best one is the red titanium one in fallen earth and it has semi-hard to come by crafting mats usually, but doesn't really offer much of an advantage in the long run.

But as I have said more than once in these forums, GW2 will end up turning into a pay2win title, because thats where the money is if your going to run the game via a cash shop, its just how it is so get used to it. If they allow the cash shop items to be sold for ingame funds, then that really nullifys any advantage they have, since you can just farm gold or whatever for it.

LOTR and DDO have both satayed out of the pay to win method as defined in my earlier post.   Pay to win is usually a model for a failing game.  

B

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Kreedz

For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

 

Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

 

WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

 

If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

1) Bring more people

2) Avoid that keep

3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

 

None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

And you don't here so get over it. More influence? Stop them from getting Supply and it won't really matter.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Influence 

Most interesting.

So based on the estimated conversion rates of;

2000 gems = $25

100 gems = 23 silver

100 influence = 1 gold

Then for $10.87 I could buy my guild a buff of +400 life for 12 hours in the vicinity of a keep we claim in a WvW zone.

Of course to unlock this then I would need to first spend $353.26 to raise the art of war to level 3 and claim a keep.

I just told you it is inherently imbalanced.

Read my post again.

You have the option of playing the smaller PvP Scenarios for your dose of balanced PvP.

Originally posted by UOvet

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Kreedz

For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

 

Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

 

WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

 

If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

1) Bring more people

2) Avoid that keep

3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

 

None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

And you don't here so get over it. More influence? Stop them from getting Supply and it won't really matter.

So does influence provide any advantage in RvRvR or not?  I know the answer, why won't you admit it?  Call it "small" or "negligible" or whatever makes you feel better, but if you say influence provides NO advantage I will know what you are.  This is public knowledge and on the GW2 wiki...

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Kreedz

For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

 

Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

 

WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

 

If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

1) Bring more people

2) Avoid that keep

3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

 

None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

Okay, so you will hate this game. Why are you playing it?  Because the balance is is that more than likely someone on the other side has something that negates those 2 or 3 hits.  Of course, this isn't a pvp game. The actual balanced pvp is somewhere else in the game and this can't be used on it.  

Again i ask, why do u care?  You come on here post after post, after thread after thread raving because you believe time advantages equals actual advantages over other players.  

You call folk names and waste your saturday evening whining over something that's not going to change. There is a cash shop, deal with it.  

Originally posted by Kreedz

I just told you it is inherently imbalanced.

 

Read my post again.

 

You have the option of playing the smaller PvP Scenarios for your dose of balanced PvP.

I've got my FPSers for a superior esport battleground.  I play MMO's for either open world PVP or close to it (like the RvRvR instance in GW2).  But I won't play a game tainted by pay2win, even if it is only a "small" advantage.

I have been telling people on this forum that GW2 is pay to win for MONTHS.

All i get in reply is "u troll!1!! go back to WoW go back to *insert random MMO*"

The extent of denial here is incredible. This game is clearly PAY TO WIN. If that is cool with you, then ok. But to deny this fact is the only actual trolling go on right now.

Originally posted by dontadow

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Kreedz

For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

 

Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

 

WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

 

If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

1) Bring more people

2) Avoid that keep

3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

 

None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

Okay, so you will hate this game. Why are you playing it?  Because the balance is is that more than likely someone on the other side has something that negates those 2 or 3 hits.  Of course, this isn't a pvp game. The actual balanced pvp is somewhere else in the game and this can't be used on it.  

Again i ask, why do u care?  You come on here post after post, after thread after thread raving because you believe time advantages equals actual advantages over other players.  

You call folk names and waste your saturday evening whining over something that's not going to change. There is a cash shop, deal with it.  

I care because if they removed this gold->influence mechanic I might actually play GW2.  If enough people show their dissatisfaction they will at least remove it for launch.  Getting a good 3 month of non-pay2win out of GW2 would be enough fo me, even if they add it in later...

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.

 

Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

 

So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.

Because there are ways to unlock them in game without paying any money.

/thread

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Kreedz

I just told you it is inherently imbalanced.

 

Read my post again.

 

You have the option of playing the smaller PvP Scenarios for your dose of balanced PvP.

I've got my FPSers for a superior esport battleground.  I play MMO's for either open world PVP or close to it (like the RvRvR instance in GW2).  But I won't play a game tainted by pay2win, even if it is only a "small" advantage.

Then dont play GW2 and leave the forums.  You wont change anyones mind.  This isnt some 2-bit asian F2P game were talking about, its a AAA development company.  Plus the cash shop offers nothing that you cant get in a game like WoW.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

What RvRvR boosts?

What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

Same information all the detractors have..... their crystal balls.  If they'd stop rubbing them, maybe we wouldn't get so many premature conclusions.

Teehee..