Originally posted by hurriedcorgi

What I don't understand is why players accept questing and levels as the norm in MMO's. It completely destroyed the genre for me. I have personally given up on them all: I stick around here because I am curious to see how archeage plays out and in theory it is still something I'm very passionate about but all I can say to people now is: I didn't leave mmo's, they left me.

 

 

i know what you mean,   SWG  was my ideal MMO,  i doubt we ever get to see games with that much depth and freedom again.

Single player games  aren't any better though,  take a look at the recently released ME3

the questing in Tera does not bother me much,  it does reminds me of the old school MMO, so i can live with it.  it has other things i love,  and not just the combat.  i love the open world enviroments,

  i think we gamers are too spoiled and way too demanding and overly picky.  we have grown a habit of setting expectations way way too high.

Originally posted by Nadya3

to each their own.    i suggest you to play Swtor, or Mass Effect single player game  if you want quests with voice overs and a solid story.    i rather play a MMO,  so questing to me is nothing but a means to an end.

 

i don't ever read quests in a MMO, because basically they are all the same,  and not just in tera but even in Swtor.  go kill this ,

bring that, kill some more, come back etc.

 

if i want good stories, i rather read a book, wich is better than any game,

For years we get the same crap over and over.  For years multitudes respond on forums with the proverbial "acceptance of crappy content" in "its just a means to an end".

Theres a reason why game after game continues to be made with mediocre experiences because kids will buy anything and not demand their game be any better then the next.  Every time I hear the words "its a means to an end" my blood curls and my stomachs knots up.  Those words are free passes to developers to continue to put out uninspiring crap.

An MMO that trys to shirk, dodge, or shortcut content (no matter where it is) is an MMO that is only after your wallet and not trying to put out a proud product.

The average mmorpg gamer is 35+, just saying ... mmorpgs are hardly the realm of kids.

Originally posted by Nadya3

  i think we gamers are too spoiled and way too demanding and overly picky.  we have grown a habit of setting expectations way way too high.

 

is not that our expectations are way too high. Its that as of today. If you want to charge full price + sub + exp (and some even cash shop too) you have to make a game taht actually is worth of that money. Not just the same old games hidden with beautiful graphics and "action" combat. Beautiful graphics and action combat are great deal, but if the progression of your character is all the same you have done for the past 10 years then no, it just not worth the money since mmorpgs are all about progressing and evolving your personal character. I wouldnt complain it they only sell the box though. (not talking about TERA specifically, i tend to include all mmos post WoW in this kind of topics)

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Nadya3

to each their own.    i suggest you to play Swtor, or Mass Effect single player game  if you want quests with voice overs and a solid story.    i rather play a MMO,  so questing to me is nothing but a means to an end.

 

i don't ever read quests in a MMO, because basically they are all the same,  and not just in tera but even in Swtor.  go kill this ,

bring that, kill some more, come back etc.

 

if i want good stories, i rather read a book, wich is better than any game,

For years we get the same crap over and over.  For years multitudes respond on forums with the proverbial "acceptance of crappy content" in "its just a means to an end".

 

Theres a reason why game after game continues to be made with mediocre experiences because kids will buy anything and not demand their game be any better then the next.  Every time I hear the words "its a means to an end" my blood curls and my stomachs knots up.  Those words are free passes to developers to continue to put out uninspiring crap.

 

An MMO that trys to shirk, dodge, or shortcut content (no matter where it is) is an MMO that is only after your wallet and not trying to put out a proud product.

everyone is different,  everyone enjoys different things.  what may be good or fun for you, may not be for someone else,  that's the price we pay for been humans.

to me, questing is in the very bottom of my priorities when it comes to MMO playing.    i rather read a good book

i like to interact with other people, i like to explore a vast and open world, i like to pvp every now and then, i like to craft, i like to raid with small groups of friends,  i like collecting things, new armor sets.

If people don't read quests, why do they want a level system to begin with ?

Originally posted by k-damage

If people don't read quests, why do they want a level system to begin with ?

Out of curiocity, have you ever played an mmorpg without quests? You wouldn't be making that question if you did.

So questing is crap, this is clear. But what is actually good in this game? PvP seems lackluster and I haven't heard much about the end game yet.

So can anyone sell me on this game? Why should I get it, besides the nice GFX and interesting combat system (I can have those in a single player game)?

Originally posted by Yamota

<>

So can anyone sell me on this game? <>

No. Play something else, I would say to you and others in your position.

Originally posted by k-damage

If people don't read quests, why do they want a level system to begin with ?

Quest should not be the only way of progression but definitelly is needed among other options. The quest log should be pretty straightforward without walls of texts just to keep track of your quest location, but quest should be already full voiced in every game. Also no hand holdings from the NPC to the exact target location (just enough info for you to get the idea of what you are looking for and around where)

Originally posted by k-damage

If people don't read quests, why do they want a level system to begin with ?

questing is just an alternative path of progression,  long before it was introduced to us by Eq2 and wow,  there was and has always been a level system. (mostly done  with  grinding) 

I respectfully disagree. Full voiced quests is a nice addition but it's both a resource hog and an impediment if these quests need to be changed in any way down the line. You're thinking voice quests in one language, English. However, try to think that if you sell to EU you need to fully voice in at least four languages, if you sell in Russia another one, China, Korea, Japan etc ...

It basically makes any change in the quest system impossible.

Sure, if you are a AAA developer with tons of money, you can hire an army of voice actors. But unfortunately AAA developers are not innovators. Imho requesting full voice acting from the indy mmorpg makers is too much.

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by k-damage

If people don't read quests, why do they want a level system to begin with ?

<> Also no hand holdings from the NPC to the exact target location (just enough info for you to get the idea of what you are looking for and around where)

I'm afraid what would happen if this was fully implemented in any MMO these days. 

I was shocked, floored, fell off my chair when I saw in area chat people asking for quest objectives in TERA. Like how is that even possible?!

"wheres vekas guyyyz???"

"how do i jump down guyyyz???"

All I kept thinking was: "the little video clip just showed you! How can you miss that?!"  Or "the quest text tells you what to do once you're up there, ugh."

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by k-damage

If people don't read quests, why do they want a level system to begin with ?

Quest should not be the only way of progression but definitelly is needed among other options. The quest log should be pretty straightforward without walls of texts just to keep track of your quest location, but quest should be already full voiced in every game. Also no hand holdings from the NPC to the exact target location (just enough info for you to get the idea of what you are looking for and around where)

some people prefer the simple, more straight forward approach when it comes to questing.

 for instance , Swtor did something truly revolutionary  with questing for the whole MMO genre.  and has proven that questing and great stories.  don't =  a good MMO.

Originally posted by Sythion

I played the beta for about an hour. In that time I encountered:

3 quest hubs

7 kill and turn in quests.

1 main quest that involved going to other quest hubs.

There wasn't even an attempt to justify the quests. NPCs pretty much said "Go do this. It will be good for you."

WHY DO PLAYERS ACCEPT THIS?!?

The worst thing was it took me an hour to do this crap and I encountered nothing redeemable in that time. When I got my most recent quest it provided a reward that was 150% my level, because I skipped the crap quests I didn't want to do. That means I have only two options: grind, or grind and walk back to a quest hub.

It's a shame because it looks like there is a lot of opportunity for interesting combat and gameplay, but I'm never going to be able to experience it because I'm not willing to wade through 50 hours of fecal matter to get there.

I've got 3 accounts that have had access through CBT1 -> until the game launcher, and I can tell you that getting upwards to around level 30 it doesn't change, ever. Even once you hit 30 people start grouping <gasp> for BAMs and instance runs. However, it all boils down to the same repetitive boring crap. You pretty much have three options:

-Go do BAMS

-Go do Instances

-Go do linear-horrid questing

Literally, ALL of my friends quit who I managed to convinced (again) to play with me on the last CBT within the first couple hours. The game's quest system is literally one of the worst systems i've seen in awhile.

The combat however is fairly well done, however can get tedious when classes aren't very well defined apart from each other in terms of what they do & can do differently than other characters of the same class. I hate non-diversity, but that may just be me.

Cheers :)

Originally posted by Nadya3

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by k-damage

If people don't read quests, why do they want a level system to begin with ?

Quest should not be the only way of progression but definitelly is needed among other options. The quest log should be pretty straightforward without walls of texts just to keep track of your quest location, but quest should be already full voiced in every game. Also no hand holdings from the NPC to the exact target location (just enough info for you to get the idea of what you are looking for and around where)

some people prefer the simple, more straight forward approach when it comes to questing.

 

 for instance , Swtor did something truly revolutionary  with questing for the whole MMO genre.  and has proven that questing and great stories.  don't =  a good MMO.

I agree, SWTOR did something truly revolutionary in PROVING that questing & linear design == the worst thing to ever do. I enjoy their only innovative acheivement :D!

Originally posted by Xasapis

OP would probably be happier in SW:TOR or any other single player rpg with coop.

from what i have read/heard TERA is also a singleplayer rpg with CO-OP. it shares the same  dungeon + battleground pvp grind + linear themepark questing.

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by Xasapis

OP would probably be happier in SW:TOR or any other single player rpg with coop.

from what i have read/heard TERA is also a singleplayer rpg with CO-OP. it shares the same  dungeon + battleground pvp grind + linear themepark questing.

Hardly. The main difference is that you have no choice in SW:TOR but to follow the linear path of questing to the T. While in Tera you can skip all quests (with maybe the exception of the storyline one) and play the game like that. Try playing in SW:TOR without doing any quests except your personal story and come tell us how it goes ;)

(Of course we can disregard that everything in SW:TOR is instanced and you hardly meet more than 10 people while adventuring, while in Tera every area is flooded with people. That can be a good or a bad thing of course, depending on the kind of server you're in. Open world PvP is certainly discouraged in SW:TOR. How many people did you kill outside Ilum in a PvP server? My count is zero and when I gave up on the game I was a battlemaster with the old system).

Originally posted by Nadya3

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by k-damage

If people don't read quests, why do they want a level system to begin with ?

Quest should not be the only way of progression but definitelly is needed among other options. The quest log should be pretty straightforward without walls of texts just to keep track of your quest location, but quest should be already full voiced in every game. Also no hand holdings from the NPC to the exact target location (just enough info for you to get the idea of what you are looking for and around where)

some people prefer the simple, more straight forward approach when it comes to questing.

 

 for instance , Swtor did something truly revolutionary  with questing for the whole MMO genre.  and has proven that questing and great stories.  don't =  a good MMO.

you may be right in a way. But, just because Swtor didnt really revolutionized questing doesnt mean other mmos have to stick with the old stuff that is not great anymore. Nor copy swtor... just do it different and provide options to the players. i love to progress through questing, but i dont want to be limited to "talk to that npc. he says kill x things then go back for reward". . .At least Swtors approach was more interactive while still simple. Variety is always good in every aspect, IMO

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Sythion

I played the beta for about an hour. In that time I encountered:

3 quest hubs

7 kill and turn in quests.

1 main quest that involved going to other quest hubs.

There wasn't even an attempt to justify the quests. NPCs pretty much said "Go do this. It will be good for you."

WHY DO PLAYERS ACCEPT THIS?!?

The worst thing was it took me an hour to do this crap and I encountered nothing redeemable in that time. When I got my most recent quest it provided a reward that was 150% my level, because I skipped the crap quests I didn't want to do. That means I have only two options: grind, or grind and walk back to a quest hub.

It's a shame because it looks like there is a lot of opportunity for interesting combat and gameplay, but I'm never going to be able to experience it because I'm not willing to wade through 50 hours of fecal matter to get there.

I've got 3 accounts that have had access through CBT1 -> until the game launcher, and I can tell you that getting upwards to around level 30 it doesn't change, ever. Even once you hit 30 people start grouping for BAMs and instance runs. However, it all boils down to the same repetitive boring crap. You pretty much have three options:

-Go do BAMS

-Go do Instances

-Go do linear-horrid questing

 

Literally, ALL of my friends quit who I managed to convinced (again) to play with me on the last CBT within the first couple hours. The game's quest system is literally one of the worst systems i've seen in awhile.

 

The combat however is fairly well done, however can get tedious when classes aren't very well defined apart from each other in terms of what they do & can do differently than other characters of the same class. I hate non-diversity, but that may just be me.

 

Cheers :)

every MMO is exactly the same or very similar to the things you can do and achieve.   in fact, they are all usually about the same,  20 people raid, 30 people raids,  hardmode raids, instance groups,  5 man dungeon groups, pvp, world pvp, ganking pvp, consentual pvp, free for all pvp.

the questing in Tera is exactly the same, not just same, (identical) to the questing in Wow, the most popular and succesful MMO in the West.     so i really don't see what the big deal is.    what do some people actually want?  some games where you can virtually teleport yourself into a 3D world and live in another dimension with other virtual characters?  i'm afraid is gonna be a very very long time, before we reach the kind of technology that allow us to make games like that.