Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Jason2444

I actually do feel REALLY bad for smugglers.

 

First the new armor set, now a healing nerf? Ouch

I would save your pity for folks buying P2W games like GW2.

 

TOR will be fine. I dont know how many subs they lost to the PVP crowd, or hardcore, but there should be plenty left to keep BW/LA happy.

 

It would be nice if they added a Dev from early EQ, so as to help the world immersion. Other than that, I say continue tuning things, and giving us lots of new content.

A wild Biodrone appears 

Originally posted by aesperus

Except... they DO have the context of the numbers.

They have a log of what you did in each warzone. Whether or not they choose to hang onto it is another matter entirely. They can see exactly how much damage / healing a skill can do, how much damage a player is taking, etc. That is literally all they need to balance the classes. I don't see how context taken from some recollection of a match is somehow more reliable than raw hard facts.

 

Your guy has 10,000 and can heal

An enemy deals 10,000 damage over the course of 2 seconds

Another enemy deals 15,000 damage over the course of 45 seconds

Who wins?

There are more dynamics to consider beside "He hit me hard"

I see the vested interest haters are out in full force still......Your not going to kill the game by badmouthing it....Those who like it have stayed....Those who haven't left.....1.7 million people disagree with you....Wow is set to bleed another 4 million this year...It will still be around for quit awhile so take your hidden agendas  and can it....BTW have you twittered your bowel movements for the day.....someone might care...   *eyeroll  

Despite my misgivings about the game. I played 1.2 on the test server and there wasn't a single addition (that I can remember) I didn't like. I can even live with the commando heal nerf cause the mercs got it too.

Originally posted by Setzer

I've been playing an Operative since launch and I thought the 20% acid blade nerf was a little too much....it was needed but didn't need to be that severe. Now with the latest round of nerfs I've cancelled my sub. It just blows my mind that they continue to nerf this class and we do no where near the top dps.

    Anyone else ever notice that when someone's favorite class gets "nerfed" it is always too much and then they post something like this?

Some minor changes were needed, because certain classes/specs were clearly better than others in both pvp and pve.  Or had a DPS "rotation" of 2 buttons, like arsenal spec merc.  The only odd thing seems to be them nerfing jugg tanks, which are already quite bad.

But they are not making massive class changes, that's what blizzard do and why wow has never been balanced properly.  Most of them will not be that noticable really.

Originally posted by lokiboard

I see the vested interest haters are out in full force still......Your not going to kill the game by badmouthing it....Those who like it have stayed....Those who haven't left.....1.7 million people disagree with you....Wow is set to bleed another 4 million this year...It will still be around for quit awhile so take your hidden agendas  and can it....BTW have you twittered your bowel movements for the day.....someone might care...   *eyeroll  

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by lokiboard

I see the vested interest haters are out in full force still......Your not going to kill the game by badmouthing it....Those who like it have stayed....Those who haven't left.....1.7 million people disagree with you....Wow is set to bleed another 4 million this year...It will still be around for quit awhile so take your hidden agendas  and can it....BTW have you twittered your bowel movements for the day.....someone might care...   *eyeroll  

Hahahahaha, 1.7m

    Hahahahahaha . . . I agree with you RefMinor, but PROVE the number wrong.

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by lokiboard

I see the vested interest haters are out in full force still......Your not going to kill the game by badmouthing it....Those who like it have stayed....Those who haven't left.....1.7 million people disagree with you....Wow is set to bleed another 4 million this year...It will still be around for quit awhile so take your hidden agendas  and can it....BTW have you twittered your bowel movements for the day.....someone might care...   *eyeroll  

Hahahahaha, 1.7m

    Hahahahahaha . . . I agree with you RefMinor, but PROVE otherwise.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by lokiboard

I see the vested interest haters are out in full force still......Your not going to kill the game by badmouthing it....Those who like it have stayed....Those who haven't left.....1.7 million people disagree with you....Wow is set to bleed another 4 million this year...It will still be around for quit awhile so take your hidden agendas  and can it....BTW have you twittered your bowel movements for the day.....someone might care...   *eyeroll  

Hahahahaha, 1.7m

    Hahahahahaha . . . I agree with you RefMinor, but PROVE the number wrong. 

I cannot PROVE only EA can do that in a few weeks, but the reason you agree with my comment is all indicators point downwards, the only real debate is the level of the fall, my personal view will be they will be very happy to have retained 7 figures.

    Uhm . . . No.  I agree with you because EVERY SINGLE MMO ever released, other than WoW has lost players for a while after launch.  Not only is this nothing new, it is expected by most people, including the developers and players.  It is only people with some sort of strange agenda that try to make it out to be anything other than what it really is . . . normal.

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Setzer

I've been playing an Operative since launch and I thought the 20% acid blade nerf was a little too much....it was needed but didn't need to be that severe. Now with the latest round of nerfs I've cancelled my sub. It just blows my mind that they continue to nerf this class and we do no where near the top dps.

    Anyone else ever notice that when someone's favorite class gets "nerfed" it is always too much and then they post something like this?

Which shows perfectly why you should never try and cater to pvpers. Most of them are never satisfied unless they can be an alpha class.

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by lokiboard

I see the vested interest haters are out in full force still......Your not going to kill the game by badmouthing it....Those who like it have stayed....Those who haven't left.....1.7 million people disagree with you....Wow is set to bleed another 4 million this year...It will still be around for quit awhile so take your hidden agendas  and can it....BTW have you twittered your bowel movements for the day.....someone might care...   *eyeroll  

Hahahahaha, 1.7m

    Hahahahahaha . . . I agree with you RefMinor, but PROVE the number wrong. 

I cannot PROVE only EA can do that in a few weeks, but the reason you agree with my comment is all indicators point downwards, the only real debate is the level of the fall, my personal view will be they will be very happy to have retained 7 figures.

    Uhm . . . No.  I agree with you because EVERY SINGLE MMO ever released, other than WoW has lost players for a while after launch.  Not only is this nothing new, it is expected by most people, including the developers and players.  It is only people with some sort of strange agenda that try to make it out to be anything other than what it really is . . . normal.

---

Originally posted by GMan3

---

Originally posted by Setzer
I've been playing an Operative since launch and I thought the 20% acid blade nerf was a little too much....it was needed but didn't need to be that severe. Now with the latest round of nerfs I've cancelled my sub. It just blows my mind that they continue to nerf this class and we do no where near the top dps.

---

    Anyone else ever notice that when someone's favorite class gets "nerfed" it is always too much and then they post something like this?

---

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by lokiboard

I see the vested interest haters are out in full force still......Your not going to kill the game by badmouthing it....Those who like it have stayed....Those who haven't left.....1.7 million people disagree with you....Wow is set to bleed another 4 million this year...It will still be around for quit awhile so take your hidden agendas  and can it....BTW have you twittered your bowel movements for the day.....someone might care...   *eyeroll  

Hahahahaha, 1.7m

    Hahahahahaha . . . I agree with you RefMinor, but PROVE the number wrong. 

I cannot PROVE only EA can do that in a few weeks, but the reason you agree with my comment is all indicators point downwards, the only real debate is the level of the fall, my personal view will be they will be very happy to have retained 7 figures.

    Uhm . . . No.  I agree with you because EVERY SINGLE MMO ever released, other than WoW has lost players for a while after launch.  Not only is this nothing new, it is expected by most people, including the developers and players.  It is only people with some sort of strange agenda that try to make it out to be anything other than what it really is . . . normal.

 

Eve didn't, nor did Everquest, Final fantasy11, DAOC, SWG, COH, DOFUS,UO, second Life, LOTR, Lineage, Lineage 2. The games into whose company SWTOR belongs are Warhammer and Age of Conan, the failures.

I can't speak for every game mentioned, but I do remember SWG and that game was losing players like mad after launch. I also think it's disengenious to include games like UO and Everquest who had little competition in a marketplace that was much smaller back when they were released. Those games would have killed to have the sub numbers that TOR has.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by lokiboard

I see the vested interest haters are out in full force still......Your not going to kill the game by badmouthing it....Those who like it have stayed....Those who haven't left.....1.7 million people disagree with you....Wow is set to bleed another 4 million this year...It will still be around for quit awhile so take your hidden agendas  and can it....BTW have you twittered your bowel movements for the day.....someone might care...   *eyeroll  

Hahahahaha, 1.7m

    Hahahahahaha . . . I agree with you RefMinor, but PROVE the number wrong. 

I cannot PROVE only EA can do that in a few weeks, but the reason you agree with my comment is all indicators point downwards, the only real debate is the level of the fall, my personal view will be they will be very happy to have retained 7 figures.

    Uhm . . . No.  I agree with you because EVERY SINGLE MMO ever released, other than WoW has lost players for a while after launch.  Not only is this nothing new, it is expected by most people, including the developers and players.  It is only people with some sort of strange agenda that try to make it out to be anything other than what it really is . . . normal.

 

Eve didn't, nor did Everquest, Final fantasy11, DAOC, SWG, COH, DOFUS,UO, second Life, LOTR, Lineage, Lineage 2. The games into whose company SWTOR belongs are Warhammer and Age of Conan, the failures.

I can't speak for every game mentioned, but I do remember SWG and that game was losing players like mad after launch. I also think it's disengenious to include games like UO and Everquest who had little competition in a marketplace that was much smaller back when they were released. Those games would have killed to have the sub numbers that TOR has.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by RefMinor

 

 

Eve didn't, nor did Everquest, Final fantasy11, DAOC, SWG, COH, DOFUS,UO, second Life, LOTR, Lineage, Lineage 2. The games into whose company SWTOR belongs are Warhammer and Age of Conan, the failures.

I can't speak for every game mentioned, but I do remember SWG and that game was losing players like mad after launch. I also think it's disengenious to include games like UO and Everquest who had little competition in a marketplace that was much smaller back when they were released. Those games would have killed to have the sub numbers that TOR has.

 

SWG increased subs for 18 months until the CU was rolled out followed by the NGE,

No it did not. The CU and NGE would never have happened if SWG was increasing subs after launch. I was there when that all went down and there is plenty of statements from the top brass of the time to back me up. The game never had the numbers that it had at launch and when WOW came out the numbers started REALLY dropping.

UO and Everquest increased subs for nearly 4 years,

Yeah,it's easy to thrive in a MMO marketplace when less than a million subs is considered successful. How did those games do again when WOW came out? Where did their sub numbers go and how did they look compared to the rest of the them when more MMOS and more players entered the marketplace? It's easy to say "I was King" when you were the only game in town.

Originally posted by RefMinor
I stand corrected on SWG according to http://www.mmodata.net/ apart form a slight dip after 6months it only increased for 1 year, still that's 11 months more than SWTOR.

Yeah and according to your chart it increased to a whopping 300,000 and never got past that. That's 1.4 million less than TOR at its peak. Great Job .

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by RefMinor
I stand corrected on SWG according to http://www.mmodata.net/ apart form a slight dip after 6months it only increased for 1 year, still that's 11 months more than SWTOR.

Yeah and according to your chart it increased to a whopping 300,000 and never got past that. That's 1.4 million less than TOR at its peak. Great Job .

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by RefMinor
I stand corrected on SWG according to http://www.mmodata.net/ apart form a slight dip after 6months it only increased for 1 year, still that's 11 months more than SWTOR.

Yeah and according to your chart it increased to a whopping 300,000 and never got past that. That's 1.4 million less than TOR at its peak. Great Job .

 

As you said yourself, different times, also didn't help that SOE screwed the pooch trying to chase WoW. But the point remains, many MMO's didn't lose subs straight after release.

I was never arguing with you on that point, that was another poster. I was just bringing an " apples and oranges" to the argument, which I'm glad that you now agree with.

By the way, thanks for the link :)