Originally posted by Matt_UK

Originally posted by Drakxii

Kotor = good

Bioware = good (or did)

So Kotor + bioware + $200 million + 5 years + pre made engine + years of mmo data out there of what fails and what doesn't  = shit game...  uhh how?

 

That's the million dollar question. One of the best IPs around, loved by millions, plus easily the best solo RPG maker around (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Planescape etc.. etc...) plus plenty of time, plus lots of money.

 

What the hell went wrong?

My wild guess is that the answer contains the letters e and a

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by evilastro

Main reasons:

- SW fans are very demanding, although most SW games end up being terrible.

This is so true. The majority of games with the Star Wars license are pure crap. That's why my expectations of any upcoming Star Wars game is never high.

- SWG was closed just before SWTOR opened, so SWTOR got more hate than usual from the sandbox crowd.

The sandbox crowd hated the current incarnation of SWG. Their hate for this game started the moment it was announced that TOR would not be about the story of Uncle Owen, which was announced almost a year before TOR's release. SWG closing brought about the hate from the small club size group of people that was still playing that game, most of whom frequent this forum and try to convince people that SWG was more popular than it really was.

- Higher expectations of the game than Bioware promised.

This is obvious from the many hate threads started by people who were expecting something other than a storybased Bioware type game. Despite the cries of WOW Clone, NO other MMO out there focuses on story to the point that Bioware does. Not one and Bioware stated this would be the case from the very beginning. Obviously something that different isn't goijng to appeal to people use to blowing through content without a second thought to lore or why you're doing it. . But for players  like myself who never liked boring and monotonous  MMO style leveling, this was a refreshing change.

Bioware was pretty open and honest about what the game would be like, but people had unrealistic expectations. I am with you on this and fairly indifferent to the game. Its not great, its not bad, its just a bit of mindless fun. Is that enough for me to stick around longer than a few months? No. But I dont feel the need to bash it for what it is.

Wish more posters around here were like you. For some reason, if a game isn't pleasing enough for some people here they take it as a personal insult. I'm a huge Star Wars fan as well as a Star Trek fan. Neither SWG or STO appealed to me and I had no expectation that either one of those franchises would get a MMO do over. Yet, life still carries on and the world will continue to spin for me regardless.  I also don't hope that STO dies a horrible death, because even though that game wasn't for me there are still many who do enjoy it and I don't get my jollies off by seeing other gamers fun ruined.

 

SWG was more popular after SOEs security breach. It could have been the fre 45 days, but because they announced the closure before people had the chance to resub.

If they announced the game closure before the breach or if they announced it a few months later, and the populations did indeed drop after the 45 days had all exprired, still giving 2-3 months notice of closure, then I would not be here posting that the game was popular. The timing of the closure announcement was lousy.

We will never know whether SWG would have shrunk or not after June, but all I know is that the game was getting better, more people were joining, and because I liked the game that is what I choose to believe, but because you did not like the game you choose to believe that that it was not popular and would have dropped.

Even after 4 months from SWGs release on Valcyn (a low populated server that got shut down in 2009) I was taking missions from terminals in Anchorhead, and within seconds people would have destroyed them, I got credits but no XP though. I stood there for about an hour just taking missions and getting credits. People were everywhere getting in your face. I can not say the same for SWTOR. I played SWTOR last week and spent an hour just killing mobs on Tython, and I did not get in the way of one person. I was alone the entire time.

 

As for STO, that game is pathetic compared to SWG, but it is still better than SWTOR as is more of a MMO and the devs keep doing some event each week, and the game just feels alive, and space is far better than SWTOR - single player experience in a MMO is just dumb. Cryptic had a very small budget to work with whereas EA/Bioware had millions, more than any MMO has ever had, and come up with a single player space experience in a MMO? Pathetic. SWTOR is just dead, people have abandoned it, as was not to the liking to lots of people. SWTOR may get better once they do a merge / reduce servers / free transfers, and the remaining people can enjoy it to the fullest, and more will return too. This will never be a problem in STO, as it only has one server.

Trying to do the Starfleet Academy event gets annoying (although good to see loads of people) as people are all over it, you run to an anomly to scan it, then out of nowhere someone else comes along and scans it, then I have to go and find another one. I've even tried playing the game at off peak hours like midday GMT during the weekday, and there are still tonnes of players around. STO is not going to be getting shut down any time soon. I can not say the same for SWTOR.

The other good thing with STO is that it does not cost anything, unless you want it to, and if it shuts down it will not bother me so much, as I would have spent little on it, because with SWG I lost $1440 per account, and if I carry on playing SWTOR I will evntually incur the same loss, when they close down the servers (that is assuming it lasts for at least 8 years)

The shutdown of SWG has left me jaded about playing any P2P MMO, especially one where LA is concerned.

 

You could have replaced all that dialogue with this one line....

<---------- Look at my avatar and what's written underneath it.

Would have saved you mucho time and effort.

I still think its a bit silly to get angry over a game. I do completely understand disapointment though. I CAN understand people being angry about the custom service bioware offers.. not that Im willing to go as far as actually DO calling that customerservice.

But I think its more along the lines that people now start to realise lucas is trying to milk star wars for every penny there's left for it.

Its painfully obvious the only constant factor in the entire star wars francise, the iron fist hs been wielding a wrecking ball bending and changing the game in hope to draw the same kind of player base and more important revenue's from it. He failed to do so in SWG and now with SwToR. Even the last 3 movies made, where they did have a great story, the execution was very disapointing. Not debating the entertainment lvl of them but the end result was disapointing non the less.

I think the bottom line is, that people arent so much angry at the game, I think people are more angry at themselves to let Bioware/lucasart against better knowing.. let them slip them a mickey.

People expected the game and their characters to feel like this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEMNyy4nS1k

But instead Bioware/lucasart made the game and players feel like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRLmetB5Sbo

(while still amusing, not what you hoped for.. by a long shot)

Originally posted by TROLL_HARD

Originally posted by Creslin321

When I look at older games like the Ultima series, older Final Fantasies, and even Bioware's Baldur's Gate...I see passion and artistry that is missing from the mega-blockbusters of today.  These games wanted to be something special, when you play them, it's clear that their developers weren't just trying to make a buck...they were trying to create a piece of art.  Was it messy sometimes?  Absolutely, but even the buggy old-school PC games just had that special something that made it more than just a "product."

I also find it comical that the only real innovation we have in today's market more or less comes from indie developers.  It's sad when all the innovation and art in a billion dollar industry comes from guys making games in their garages and basements.

I have to agree.

 

The part I highlighted in yellow, I agree, but I find it inspiring that there are still indies out there, still trying against the odds. It's just like music and film as well. Artists aren't going to be happy at big corps. They will strike out on their own to realize their vision. They won't be mass market successes, but that's not what we want, is it? 

 

I just don't want to become an art snob...lol....hopefully we can all find something creative to do in our own lives, and hope that some of us are going to bring a new game out. I'm not a game designer, so I can't do that. Maybe there are writers, musicians, artists out there who will inspire game designers. And people who are good at business can help them make that a reality through getting the funding they need. [Edit: Oh, I'm rambling.]

 

I just don' t see these huge mega-corps putting out anything of lasting value or inspiration. They put out McGames.

 Yeah I am completely with you about indie developers.  I try to support them frequently through Kickstarter, and always keep an eye on the indie section of Steam.  And I love your "McGames" term lol...fits perfectly.

I guess I just think it's sad that the video game industry finally has all of the resources that were so desperately needed back in the early days, but these resources are just being used to churn out...McGames as you call them :).

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by evilastro

Main reasons:

- SW fans are very demanding, although most SW games end up being terrible.

This is so true. The majority of games with the Star Wars license are pure crap. That's why my expectations of any upcoming Star Wars game is never high.

- SWG was closed just before SWTOR opened, so SWTOR got more hate than usual from the sandbox crowd.

The sandbox crowd hated the current incarnation of SWG. Their hate for this game started the moment it was announced that TOR would not be about the story of Uncle Owen, which was announced almost a year before TOR's release. SWG closing brought about the hate from the small club size group of people that was still playing that game, most of whom frequent this forum and try to convince people that SWG was more popular than it really was.

- Higher expectations of the game than Bioware promised.

This is obvious from the many hate threads started by people who were expecting something other than a storybased Bioware type game. Despite the cries of WOW Clone, NO other MMO out there focuses on story to the point that Bioware does. Not one and Bioware stated this would be the case from the very beginning. Obviously something that different isn't goijng to appeal to people use to blowing through content without a second thought to lore or why you're doing it. . But for players  like myself who never liked boring and monotonous  MMO style leveling, this was a refreshing change.

Bioware was pretty open and honest about what the game would be like, but people had unrealistic expectations. I am with you on this and fairly indifferent to the game. Its not great, its not bad, its just a bit of mindless fun. Is that enough for me to stick around longer than a few months? No. But I dont feel the need to bash it for what it is.

Wish more posters around here were like you. For some reason, if a game isn't pleasing enough for some people here they take it as a personal insult. I'm a huge Star Wars fan as well as a Star Trek fan. Neither SWG or STO appealed to me and I had no expectation that either one of those franchises would get a MMO do over. Yet, life still carries on and the world will continue to spin for me regardless.  I also don't hope that STO dies a horrible death, because even though that game wasn't for me there are still many who do enjoy it and I don't get my jollies off by seeing other gamers fun ruined.

 

SWG was more popular after SOEs security breach. It could have been the fre 45 days, but because they announced the closure before people had the chance to resub.

If they announced the game closure before the breach or if they announced it a few months later, and the populations did indeed drop after the 45 days had all exprired, still giving 2-3 months notice of closure, then I would not be here posting that the game was popular. The timing of the closure announcement was lousy.

We will never know whether SWG would have shrunk or not after June, but all I know is that the game was getting better, more people were joining, and because I liked the game that is what I choose to believe, but because you did not like the game you choose to believe that that it was not popular and would have dropped.

Even after 4 months from SWGs release on Valcyn (a low populated server that got shut down in 2009) I was taking missions from terminals in Anchorhead, and within seconds people would have destroyed them, I got credits but no XP though. I stood there for about an hour just taking missions and getting credits. People were everywhere getting in your face. I can not say the same for SWTOR. I played SWTOR last week and spent an hour just killing mobs on Tython, and I did not get in the way of one person. I was alone the entire time.

 

As for STO, that game is pathetic compared to SWG, but it is still better than SWTOR as is more of a MMO and the devs keep doing some event each week, and the game just feels alive, and space is far better than SWTOR - single player experience in a MMO is just dumb. Cryptic had a very small budget to work with whereas EA/Bioware had millions, more than any MMO has ever had, and come up with a single player space experience in a MMO? Pathetic. SWTOR is just dead, people have abandoned it, as was not to the liking to lots of people. SWTOR may get better once they do a merge / reduce servers / free transfers, and the remaining people can enjoy it to the fullest, and more will return too. This will never be a problem in STO, as it only has one server.

Trying to do the Starfleet Academy event gets annoying (although good to see loads of people) as people are all over it, you run to an anomly to scan it, then out of nowhere someone else comes along and scans it, then I have to go and find another one. I've even tried playing the game at off peak hours like midday GMT during the weekday, and there are still tonnes of players around. STO is not going to be getting shut down any time soon. I can not say the same for SWTOR.

The other good thing with STO is that it does not cost anything, unless you want it to, and if it shuts down it will not bother me so much, as I would have spent little on it, because with SWG I lost $1440 per account, and if I carry on playing SWTOR I will evntually incur the same loss, when they close down the servers (that is assuming it lasts for at least 8 years)

The shutdown of SWG has left me jaded about playing any P2P MMO, especially one where LA is concerned.

 

 

 

You could have replaced all that dialogue with this one line....

 

 

<---------- Look at my avatar and what's written underneath it.

 

 

 

Would have saved you mucho time and effort.

LOL. I stopped reading after the  "SWG was more popular after the SOE security breach."  I mean......WOW.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by evilastro

Main reasons:

- SW fans are very demanding, although most SW games end up being terrible.

This is so true. The majority of games with the Star Wars license are pure crap. That's why my expectations of any upcoming Star Wars game is never high.

- SWG was closed just before SWTOR opened, so SWTOR got more hate than usual from the sandbox crowd.

The sandbox crowd hated the current incarnation of SWG. Their hate for this game started the moment it was announced that TOR would not be about the story of Uncle Owen, which was announced almost a year before TOR's release. SWG closing brought about the hate from the small club size group of people that was still playing that game, most of whom frequent this forum and try to convince people that SWG was more popular than it really was.

- Higher expectations of the game than Bioware promised.

This is obvious from the many hate threads started by people who were expecting something other than a storybased Bioware type game. Despite the cries of WOW Clone, NO other MMO out there focuses on story to the point that Bioware does. Not one and Bioware stated this would be the case from the very beginning. Obviously something that different isn't goijng to appeal to people use to blowing through content without a second thought to lore or why you're doing it. . But for players  like myself who never liked boring and monotonous  MMO style leveling, this was a refreshing change.

Bioware was pretty open and honest about what the game would be like, but people had unrealistic expectations. I am with you on this and fairly indifferent to the game. Its not great, its not bad, its just a bit of mindless fun. Is that enough for me to stick around longer than a few months? No. But I dont feel the need to bash it for what it is.

Wish more posters around here were like you. For some reason, if a game isn't pleasing enough for some people here they take it as a personal insult. I'm a huge Star Wars fan as well as a Star Trek fan. Neither SWG or STO appealed to me and I had no expectation that either one of those franchises would get a MMO do over. Yet, life still carries on and the world will continue to spin for me regardless.  I also don't hope that STO dies a horrible death, because even though that game wasn't for me there are still many who do enjoy it and I don't get my jollies off by seeing other gamers fun ruined.

 

SWG was more popular after SOEs security breach. It could have been the fre 45 days, but because they announced the closure before people had the chance to resub.

If they announced the game closure before the breach or if they announced it a few months later, and the populations did indeed drop after the 45 days had all exprired, still giving 2-3 months notice of closure, then I would not be here posting that the game was popular. The timing of the closure announcement was lousy.

We will never know whether SWG would have shrunk or not after June, but all I know is that the game was getting better, more people were joining, and because I liked the game that is what I choose to believe, but because you did not like the game you choose to believe that that it was not popular and would have dropped.

Even after 4 months from SWGs release on Valcyn (a low populated server that got shut down in 2009) I was taking missions from terminals in Anchorhead, and within seconds people would have destroyed them, I got credits but no XP though. I stood there for about an hour just taking missions and getting credits. People were everywhere getting in your face. I can not say the same for SWTOR. I played SWTOR last week and spent an hour just killing mobs on Tython, and I did not get in the way of one person. I was alone the entire time.

 

As for STO, that game is pathetic compared to SWG, but it is still better than SWTOR as is more of a MMO and the devs keep doing some event each week, and the game just feels alive, and space is far better than SWTOR - single player experience in a MMO is just dumb. Cryptic had a very small budget to work with whereas EA/Bioware had millions, more than any MMO has ever had, and come up with a single player space experience in a MMO? Pathetic. SWTOR is just dead, people have abandoned it, as was not to the liking to lots of people. SWTOR may get better once they do a merge / reduce servers / free transfers, and the remaining people can enjoy it to the fullest, and more will return too. This will never be a problem in STO, as it only has one server.

Trying to do the Starfleet Academy event gets annoying (although good to see loads of people) as people are all over it, you run to an anomly to scan it, then out of nowhere someone else comes along and scans it, then I have to go and find another one. I've even tried playing the game at off peak hours like midday GMT during the weekday, and there are still tonnes of players around. STO is not going to be getting shut down any time soon. I can not say the same for SWTOR.

The other good thing with STO is that it does not cost anything, unless you want it to, and if it shuts down it will not bother me so much, as I would have spent little on it, because with SWG I lost $1440 per account, and if I carry on playing SWTOR I will evntually incur the same loss, when they close down the servers (that is assuming it lasts for at least 8 years)

The shutdown of SWG has left me jaded about playing any P2P MMO, especially one where LA is concerned.

 

 

 

You could have replaced all that dialogue with this one line....

 

 

<---------- Look at my avatar and what's written underneath it.

 

 

 

Would have saved you mucho time and effort.

LOL. I stopped reading after the  "SWG was more popular after the SOE security breach."  I mean......WOW.

The remaining players didnt really leave during and after the breach andalot of players took the oppertunity to return to it when they offered the free 45 days, a portion of the returners actually re-sub'd.

WHY ? I feel mislead about what the game was.Mislead because I thought the company had the knowlege, interest and capability to complete Illum rvr. Mislead because I thought having to have a  "relationship" with same sex companions was NOT going to happen.

Originally posted by Paithan

Originally posted by ktanner3

 

 

LOL. I stopped reading after the  "SWG was more popular after the SOE security breach."  I mean......WOW.

The remaining players didnt really leave during and after the breach andalot of players took the oppertunity to return to it when they offered the free 45 days, a portion of the returners actually re-sub'd.

 I'm sure that anyone who was still around that ignored SOE 's screwing over the original games fans along with all their lies  was willing to ignore almost anything at that point. I just doubt the amount was as large as fans of that game are claiming. I knew no one who still played that game and even on this site the forum activity was non existent. When that security breach happened, the biggest response I saw on the internet was "That game is still going?" The only talk about SWG was by fans of the old version who wanted their game back.

But I'm willing to be proved wrong. Show me some numbers or show me some other type of proof that SWG was thriving when SOE and LA decided to shut down that "popular" game. And no,"I saw people" isn't proof.

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

WHY ? I feel mislead about what the game was.MisRead because I thought the company had the knowlege, interest and capability to complete Illum rvr. MisRead because I thought having to have a  "relationship" with same sex companions was NOT going to happen.

Just a minor details, the ilum story line to complete was interesting. The RvR part despite some flaws "can"be fun and interesting, its the players chosing not to do it, they cant really force people to do it.

From what I saw in the trailers and game play videos, as well as taking both lucasarts and bioware's track record into acount the game really was precisely what I expected it to be.  people should have known considering did offer beta weekends getting everyone who DID apply to try it. So people COULD have gone and look for them selves.

As for the same sex, the only real promise about that was they said the game wont be released with that option and at the time they have no plans to add it, they never ruled out it may be implimented in the future.

So Im not seeing where you felt misslead.

Originally posted by LadyNoh

Most people feel that SWTOR took their childhood dreams and wiped their ass with it.

Hahaha so true...

SWTOR is hated due to a perfect storm of hatred. 

First, you have the Star Wars fan.  The Star Wars fan loves the original trilogy, but after many many nights of conflicting emotions, finally realizes that the prequel trilogy was horrible.  The Star Wars fan was excited about SWTOR due to the amount of money being spent and that it was being made by Bioware, a company known for good story telling.  Instead, they get a WoW clone with way too much crowd control and instancing.  And in one terrible moment, this group merged with another.

Second,  you have the standard mmorpg gamer.  The gamer loves Bioware for Dragonage, Mass Effect, Kotor ect.  The gamer hears about Bioware developing an mmorpg with huge financial backing.  Suddenly the possibility for an excellent mmorpg gets in their head and they fantasize about it.  Then the Hype machine hits and they are defenseless.  They get in the game and realize it's just another WoW clone except for with too much crowd control and instancing.  They may like the voice acting, but get tired of a voice actor trying to convince them why they need to kill 10 lizards.

Third, you have the sanbox mmorpg fan.  This type of gamer is sick of all the WoW clones and longs for the old days of Ultima Online, Asheron's Call ect.  They recognize the possibilities for a truly great virtual world but all that ever releases are WoW clones.  A huge big budget WoW clone is released and it just one WoW clone too many.  So they attack.  Luckily for them, this new big budget WoW clone is actually a lot worse than WoW, and has already upset a lot of gamers in it's crappyiness.  They smell blood and decide to help send the gaming industry a message.  "NO MORE WOW CLONES!!! SEE HOW MUCH MONEY YOU WILL LOSE?"  They shout it from the rooftops. 

The disenfranchised Star Wars fan and the jaded standard mmorpg gamer add their voices.  It is the perfect storm.

its true ^^¨they did mess up the mighty IP that star wars is. well its not that bad, but retextured humans and call them species?

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by evilastro

Main reasons:

- SW fans are very demanding, although most SW games end up being terrible.

This is so true. The majority of games with the Star Wars license are pure crap. That's why my expectations of any upcoming Star Wars game is never high.

- SWG was closed just before SWTOR opened, so SWTOR got more hate than usual from the sandbox crowd.

The sandbox crowd hated the current incarnation of SWG. Their hate for this game started the moment it was announced that TOR would not be about the story of Uncle Owen, which was announced almost a year before TOR's release. SWG closing brought about the hate from the small club size group of people that was still playing that game, most of whom frequent this forum and try to convince people that SWG was more popular than it really was.

- Higher expectations of the game than Bioware promised.

This is obvious from the many hate threads started by people who were expecting something other than a storybased Bioware type game. Despite the cries of WOW Clone, NO other MMO out there focuses on story to the point that Bioware does. Not one and Bioware stated this would be the case from the very beginning. Obviously something that different isn't goijng to appeal to people use to blowing through content without a second thought to lore or why you're doing it. . But for players  like myself who never liked boring and monotonous  MMO style leveling, this was a refreshing change.

Bioware was pretty open and honest about what the game would be like, but people had unrealistic expectations. I am with you on this and fairly indifferent to the game. Its not great, its not bad, its just a bit of mindless fun. Is that enough for me to stick around longer than a few months? No. But I dont feel the need to bash it for what it is.

Wish more posters around here were like you. For some reason, if a game isn't pleasing enough for some people here they take it as a personal insult. I'm a huge Star Wars fan as well as a Star Trek fan. Neither SWG or STO appealed to me and I had no expectation that either one of those franchises would get a MMO do over. Yet, life still carries on and the world will continue to spin for me regardless.  I also don't hope that STO dies a horrible death, because even though that game wasn't for me there are still many who do enjoy it and I don't get my jollies off by seeing other gamers fun ruined.

 

SWG was more popular after SOEs security breach. It could have been the fre 45 days, but because they announced the closure before people had the chance to resub.

If they announced the game closure before the breach or if they announced it a few months later, and the populations did indeed drop after the 45 days had all exprired, still giving 2-3 months notice of closure, then I would not be here posting that the game was popular. The timing of the closure announcement was lousy.

We will never know whether SWG would have shrunk or not after June, but all I know is that the game was getting better, more people were joining, and because I liked the game that is what I choose to believe, but because you did not like the game you choose to believe that that it was not popular and would have dropped.

Even after 4 months from SWGs release on Valcyn (a low populated server that got shut down in 2009) I was taking missions from terminals in Anchorhead, and within seconds people would have destroyed them, I got credits but no XP though. I stood there for about an hour just taking missions and getting credits. People were everywhere getting in your face. I can not say the same for SWTOR. I played SWTOR last week and spent an hour just killing mobs on Tython, and I did not get in the way of one person. I was alone the entire time.

 

As for STO, that game is pathetic compared to SWG, but it is still better than SWTOR as is more of a MMO and the devs keep doing some event each week, and the game just feels alive, and space is far better than SWTOR - single player experience in a MMO is just dumb. Cryptic had a very small budget to work with whereas EA/Bioware had millions, more than any MMO has ever had, and come up with a single player space experience in a MMO? Pathetic. SWTOR is just dead, people have abandoned it, as was not to the liking to lots of people. SWTOR may get better once they do a merge / reduce servers / free transfers, and the remaining people can enjoy it to the fullest, and more will return too. This will never be a problem in STO, as it only has one server.

Trying to do the Starfleet Academy event gets annoying (although good to see loads of people) as people are all over it, you run to an anomly to scan it, then out of nowhere someone else comes along and scans it, then I have to go and find another one. I've even tried playing the game at off peak hours like midday GMT during the weekday, and there are still tonnes of players around. STO is not going to be getting shut down any time soon. I can not say the same for SWTOR.

The other good thing with STO is that it does not cost anything, unless you want it to, and if it shuts down it will not bother me so much, as I would have spent little on it, because with SWG I lost $1440 per account, and if I carry on playing SWTOR I will evntually incur the same loss, when they close down the servers (that is assuming it lasts for at least 8 years)

The shutdown of SWG has left me jaded about playing any P2P MMO, especially one where LA is concerned.

 

 

 

You could have replaced all that dialogue with this one line....

 

 

<---------- Look at my avatar and what's written underneath it.

 

 

 

Would have saved you mucho time and effort.

LOL. I stopped reading after the  "SWG was more popular after the SOE security breach."  I mean......WOW.

It was.

Before the breach there was only 1 full server (Starsider), then after, populations grew, and 2 more servers (Farstar and Chilastra) became full, and SOE had to lock them out from transfers too, which was done just a week before they announced the closure of SWG. Starsider was still full, I was expecting it to drop and then open up to transfers again, but it did not, it was quite amazing, I could not believe my eyes, it was a miracle. Flurry was getting to be next to be full, then the announcement of its closure came, and populations plummeted.

Also there was the free transfers, so people came back and moved to other servers, and were loving the game again. This is what SWTOR needs now, otherwise it will just die faster, especially with 200 servers and the majority all dead. If people quit STO then it is because they do not like it, if people quit SWTOR then it is not just because they do not like it, but also because the server they are on is dead.

Originally posted by MurlockDance

Originally posted by TROLL_HARD

This game has way many more threads than you would think for a mediocre game launched back in December.

 

I went to the original Star Wars movie when it launched in the summer of 1977. Star Wars has been a part of our culture for 35 years. That's a long time  in relation to pop culture and media. 

 

In my opinion, this IP goes beyond Lucas Arts and EA's legal rights to it, in the public mind at least, if not legally. It has become a part of the popular culture.  A lot of people don't like what's been done to it and how it's been exploited. So people are responding to SWTOR as something beyond the genre of mmorpgs.

 

If this was just a shoddy game issue, people would be done with it by now and move on to other games to talk about. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

Why do you think people are responding so strongly to SWTOR, either positively or negatively? How do you feel about the way Lucas Arts and EA have dealt with this IP?

It is really not a bad game at all. As an RPG, it is fairly good... it is better than the DA series in my opinion, and on par with ME1 actually. There is some routine "cut-and-paste" side quests, but the main story quests are great. And for a Star Wars title, ToR is actually quite respectable. I have played some real Star Wars drek before.

However, as an MMORPG, it is not really that good. I met some nice people in the game so it is not an issue of community... even though I have grouped up and done some things, I don't feel that inclined to group up in general. I actually prefer solo play, which is not really the point of an MMO.. almost in every other MMO I prefer to group up if there is a group available. Not only do I not care to group up, but I do not care to get involved in PvP, the AH, or crafting. Even in WoW, I feel more involved in the community, and it is because there is just so much more to do in it that is actually interesting with a group. I played a few flashpoints and I played a few of the heroic quests, but I didn't feel hooked. The only thing in ToR that has hooked me is the storyline for my class.

Add to that no real current longetivity and a subscription fee. If other people feel like me in that they enjoy the storyline but not really the "MMO" side of ToR, then they are probably wondering why on earth they should pay a subscription fee on top of the original 60$ to get the game? They are probably wondering why the game cost so much money to make but the results are so lacklustre: with all of the money spent, it should have been omg uber, right?

I think the complainers go over the top though. I mean, ToR is not really that different in the way it is set up as compared to LotRO, which many players seem to love. Both are story heavy, on-rail themeparks, and both are pretty superficial. In that sense, some of the hate might be unwarranted. Even though I am currently enjoying the game, I can see its many flaws. It does not make me hate, but I also never felt hooked... in that sense this game is a cool burn, not a passionate hate or love affair

  I do agree with most of what you say although I was and still am hooked by the game and it is a good mmo for just starting out, I expect them to make improvements as time goes on especially to the space game,     Now if a year goes by and they dont make improvements my comments might and prob will change

Originally posted by Zorgo

Why such strong feelings?

Because lightsabers are involved.

Yes and the Latin for Lightsabers is Penideselectrixsama which when distilled down to its essence means my Pen-- is mightier than yours!!!!!

I've come to the conclusion that gamers these days aren't really sure what they want, they want to wow'd and they want something they can sink their teeth into, yet they don't want to let go of the past, even though most say they want innovation i.e. SWG fans who cannot let go.

George Lucas made a wonderful IP, Star Wars. He continued to build on it with the prequels, which I personally thought weren't that bad. I never expected a cerebral work of art like some people. Lucas has always been about entertaining his audience, he does that and does it well. Bioware does a fantastic job of entertaining their audiences as well.

Together, these two entertainment giants, yea I said it, combined their creative talents to create an MMO that feels like your playing a movie, exactly what Lucas wanted. There is innovation in the level of story telling, whether gamers choose to see it or not.

I played SWG for a long time. It was fun in it's own way, but never did it feel like it came from the movies. That game literally broke the canon in so many ways it was unbelievable. There were many ways to play that game and I had fun doing most of them. However even I realize it was not Star Wars, not even close. SWG could have been placed in just about any Sci-Fi IP and still played the same, especially in the beginning before the Hologrind and then Jedi Village.

I play SWTOR and I still have fun with it. If that makes me a Fanboy, so be it. I won't defend it like it's the next coming of whatever religion you adhere to though as I am smart enough to see it's flaws.

In the end though, it is entertaining and does have it's strong points, it also has it's weaknesses just like every game that has been released to date. It didn't ruin your childhood and it did not piss on anyones dreams. If it did, then you have some pretty pathetic dreams.

Bottom line, it's a game, a freakin video game. If it's fun, play it, if not, don't. Simpe concept eh? Too bad many people find it hard to grasp that.

Originally posted by agnostic4eve

I've come to the conclusion that gamers these days aren't really sure what they want, they want to wow'd and they want something they can sink their teeth into, yet they don't want to let go of the past, even though most say they want innovation i.e. SWG fans who cannot let go.

George Lucas made a wonderful IP, Star Wars. He continued to build on it with the prequels, which I personally thought weren't that bad. I never expected a cerebral work of art like some people. Lucas has always been about entertaining his audience, he does that and does it well. Bioware does a fantastic job of entertaining their audiences as well.

 I grew up on the original trilogy and I enjoyed the prequals. A lot of fans have a very romanticized view of the Original Trilogy. Star Wars was NEVER a cerebral story liike Star Trek. It had some of the worst dialogue ever put to film and stole from so many genres, yet it entertained many people and that is all that matters.   If I weddddrddggggggggg

Together, these two entertainment giants, yea I said it, combined their creative talents to create an MMO that feels like your playing a movie, exactly what Lucas wanted. There is innovation in the level of story telling, whether gamers choose to see it or not.

That is the way I see it. I've always had a hard time with MMOs because players are expected to do these long and boring grinds with the promise that end game is where it is at. I usually don't make it to end game because I'v e always felt that I shouldn't have to pay for weeks or months of boring gameplay just to get to the good part. Clearly, people on this site are fine with doing that, but I refuse to reward a company for having that mindset. This is by far the best leveling MMO I have ever played.

I played SWG for a long time. It was fun in it's own way, but never did it feel like it came from the movies. That game literally broke the canon in so many ways it was unbelievable. There were many ways to play that game and I had fun doing most of them. However even I realize it was not Star Wars, not even close. SWG could have been placed in just about any Sci-Fi IP and still played the same, especially in the beginning before the Hologrind and then Jedi Village.

I still remember popping on Mos Eisley for the first time and watching a couple of TKMs beating up hordes of Stormtroopers and thinking "What the heck is this?"  It got even more canon breaking with each patch because they always went out of their way to make getting jedi more easy.

I play SWTOR and I still have fun with it. If that makes me a Fanboy, so be it. I won't defend it like it's the next coming of whatever religion you adhere to though as I am smart enough to see it's flaws.

In the end though, it is entertaining and does have it's strong points, it also has it's weaknesses just like every game that has been released to date. It didn't ruin your childhood and it did not piss on anyones dreams. If it did, then you have some pretty pathetic dreams.

Bottom line, it's a game, a freakin video game. If it's fun, play it, if not, don't. Simpe concept eh? Too bad many people find it hard to grasp that.

Well put. But if there's one thing I've learning from  SWG fanatics, you''ve just committed heresy so get ready for the blow back.  ;)

Originally posted by agnostic4eve

I've come to the conclusion that gamers these days aren't really sure what they want, they want to wow'd and they want something they can sink their teeth into, yet they don't want to let go of the past, even though most say they want innovation i.e. SWG fans who cannot let go.

George Lucas made a wonderful IP, Star Wars. He continued to build on it with the prequels, which I personally thought weren't that bad. I never expected a cerebral work of art like some people. Lucas has always been about entertaining his audience, he does that and does it well. Bioware does a fantastic job of entertaining their audiences as well.

Together, these two entertainment giants, yea I said it, combined their creative talents to create an MMO that feels like your playing a movie, exactly what Lucas wanted. There is innovation in the level of story telling, whether gamers choose to see it or not.

I played SWG for a long time. It was fun in it's own way, but never did it feel like it came from the movies. That game literally broke the canon in so many ways it was unbelievable. There were many ways to play that game and I had fun doing most of them. However even I realize it was not Star Wars, not even close. SWG could have been placed in just about any Sci-Fi IP and still played the same, especially in the beginning before the Hologrind and then Jedi Village.

I play SWTOR and I still have fun with it. If that makes me a Fanboy, so be it. I won't defend it like it's the next coming of whatever religion you adhere to though as I am smart enough to see it's flaws.

In the end though, it is entertaining and does have it's strong points, it also has it's weaknesses just like every game that has been released to date. It didn't ruin your childhood and it did not piss on anyones dreams. If it did, then you have some pretty pathetic dreams.

Bottom line, it's a game, a freakin video game. If it's fun, play it, if not, don't. Simpe concept eh? Too bad many people find it hard to grasp that.

The fact that the battle between absolute good and evil and the demonstration that neither good nor evil are absolute is above your comprehension level does not mean that it is not cerebral. It simply means you suck at story comprehension. The fact it is entertaining only means that the producer is skilled in illustrating his thoughts.

Now TOR considers absolute evil to be on the same level of a 15 yo attention whore. Thats when I uinstalled. There is also no risk for a jedi to fall to the dark side and become hunted by the others, which makes the story, whatever it is, of 0 moral interest.  That pretty much stops being a story and starts being a playthrough, like all other MMOs. Therefor, there is no innovation what so ever.

Not wanting to burst your bubble, but I want to do you a favor: Bioware is dead, its an EA studio now. Stop kidding to yourself.

The reality of TOR is that although not a terrible game by 2004 standards, it is a game that is graphically Star Wars, but it is not Star Wars. Star Wars fans will simply continue to wait, along with the Stargate and Star Trek fans, for a videogame worthy of their business.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Calerxes

SNIP!

 

 

 

You could have replaced all that dialogue with this one line....

 

 

<---------- Look at my avatar and what's written underneath it.

 

 

 

Would have saved you mucho time and effort.

LOL. I stopped reading after the  "SWG was more popular after the SOE security breach."  I mean......WOW.

It was.

Before the breach there was only 1 full server (Starsider), then after, populations grew, and 2 more servers (Farstar and Chilastra) became full, and SOE had to lock them out from transfers too, which was done just a week before they announced the closure of SWG. Starsider was still full, I was expecting it to drop and then open up to transfers again, but it did not, it was quite amazing, I could not believe my eyes, it was a miracle. Flurry was getting to be next to be full, then the announcement of its closure came, and populations plummeted.

Also there was the free transfers, so people came back and moved to other servers, and were loving the game again. This is what SWTOR needs now, otherwise it will just die faster, especially with 200 servers and the majority all dead. If people quit STO then it is because they do not like it, if people quit SWTOR then it is not just because they do not like it, but also because the server they are on is dead.

I think what you have observed there is people love FREE and people always slow down to observe a car crash. When you put those two together with an MMO you get  a temporary rise in population.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by evilastro

Main reasons:

- SW fans are very demanding, although most SW games end up being terrible.

This is so true. The majority of games with the Star Wars license are pure crap. That's why my expectations of any upcoming Star Wars game is never high.

- SWG was closed just before SWTOR opened, so SWTOR got more hate than usual from the sandbox crowd.

The sandbox crowd hated the current incarnation of SWG. Their hate for this game started the moment it was announced that TOR would not be about the story of Uncle Owen, which was announced almost a year before TOR's release. SWG closing brought about the hate from the small club size group of people that was still playing that game, most of whom frequent this forum and try to convince people that SWG was more popular than it really was.

- Higher expectations of the game than Bioware promised.

This is obvious from the many hate threads started by people who were expecting something other than a storybased Bioware type game. Despite the cries of WOW Clone, NO other MMO out there focuses on story to the point that Bioware does. Not one and Bioware stated this would be the case from the very beginning. Obviously something that different isn't goijng to appeal to people use to blowing through content without a second thought to lore or why you're doing it. . But for players  like myself who never liked boring and monotonous  MMO style leveling, this was a refreshing change.

Bioware was pretty open and honest about what the game would be like, but people had unrealistic expectations. I am with you on this and fairly indifferent to the game. Its not great, its not bad, its just a bit of mindless fun. Is that enough for me to stick around longer than a few months? No. But I dont feel the need to bash it for what it is.

Wish more posters around here were like you. For some reason, if a game isn't pleasing enough for some people here they take it as a personal insult. I'm a huge Star Wars fan as well as a Star Trek fan. Neither SWG or STO appealed to me and I had no expectation that either one of those franchises would get a MMO do over. Yet, life still carries on and the world will continue to spin for me regardless.  I also don't hope that STO dies a horrible death, because even though that game wasn't for me there are still many who do enjoy it and I don't get my jollies off by seeing other gamers fun ruined.

 

SWG was more popular after SOEs security breach. It could have been the fre 45 days, but because they announced the closure before people had the chance to resub.

If they announced the game closure before the breach or if they announced it a few months later, and the populations did indeed drop after the 45 days had all exprired, still giving 2-3 months notice of closure, then I would not be here posting that the game was popular. The timing of the closure announcement was lousy.

We will never know whether SWG would have shrunk or not after June, but all I know is that the game was getting better, more people were joining, and because I liked the game that is what I choose to believe, but because you did not like the game you choose to believe that that it was not popular and would have dropped.

Even after 4 months from SWGs release on Valcyn (a low populated server that got shut down in 2009) I was taking missions from terminals in Anchorhead, and within seconds people would have destroyed them, I got credits but no XP though. I stood there for about an hour just taking missions and getting credits. People were everywhere getting in your face. I can not say the same for SWTOR. I played SWTOR last week and spent an hour just killing mobs on Tython, and I did not get in the way of one person. I was alone the entire time.

 

As for STO, that game is pathetic compared to SWG, but it is still better than SWTOR as is more of a MMO and the devs keep doing some event each week, and the game just feels alive, and space is far better than SWTOR - single player experience in a MMO is just dumb. Cryptic had a very small budget to work with whereas EA/Bioware had millions, more than any MMO has ever had, and come up with a single player space experience in a MMO? Pathetic. SWTOR is just dead, people have abandoned it, as was not to the liking to lots of people. SWTOR may get better once they do a merge / reduce servers / free transfers, and the remaining people can enjoy it to the fullest, and more will return too. This will never be a problem in STO, as it only has one server.

Trying to do the Starfleet Academy event gets annoying (although good to see loads of people) as people are all over it, you run to an anomly to scan it, then out of nowhere someone else comes along and scans it, then I have to go and find another one. I've even tried playing the game at off peak hours like midday GMT during the weekday, and there are still tonnes of players around. STO is not going to be getting shut down any time soon. I can not say the same for SWTOR.

The other good thing with STO is that it does not cost anything, unless you want it to, and if it shuts down it will not bother me so much, as I would have spent little on it, because with SWG I lost $1440 per account, and if I carry on playing SWTOR I will evntually incur the same loss, when they close down the servers (that is assuming it lasts for at least 8 years)

The shutdown of SWG has left me jaded about playing any P2P MMO, especially one where LA is concerned.

 

 

 

You could have replaced all that dialogue with this one line....

 

 

<---------- Look at my avatar and what's written underneath it.

 

 

 

Would have saved you mucho time and effort.

LOL. I stopped reading after the  "SWG was more popular after the SOE security breach."  I mean......WOW.

It was.

Before the breach there was only 1 full server (Starsider), then after, populations grew, and 2 more servers (Farstar and Chilastra) became full, and SOE had to lock them out from transfers too, which was done just a week before they announced the closure of SWG. Starsider was still full, I was expecting it to drop and then open up to transfers again, but it did not, it was quite amazing, I could not believe my eyes, it was a miracle. Flurry was getting to be next to be full, then the announcement of its closure came, and populations plummeted.

Also there was the free transfers, so people came back and moved to other servers, and were loving the game again. This is what SWTOR needs now, otherwise it will just die faster, especially with 200 servers and the majority all dead. If people quit STO then it is because they do not like it, if people quit SWTOR then it is not just because they do not like it, but also because the server they are on is dead.

 

 

I think what you have observed their is people love FREE and people always slow down to observe a car crash. When you put those two together with an MMO you get  a temporary rise in population.

It was not just the free 45 days, they also just brought in the the permanent free transfers, so came back and moved to a populated server. The two things together brought people back. The free 45 days did not boost DCUO or Vanguard populations.

It also showed that if the game went F2P, it would have done great. People were playing knowing that what they were doing would all be gone after 45 days. If people played it that long term I and still playing it, then they would have subbed. SOE did not lock down free transfers on 2 more servers on a brief spurt.

In SWTOR people have shown they do not want to play it even within its first free 30 days, and after paying for the game. SWTOR has shown that even if the game is free, they will not play it long term if is a load of rubbish. If there was population boost for a week or two, that would have proved that people love FREE, but they stayed and sustanined playing from when servers were back online until the game was announced to close, otherwise if they did not plan to resub, then those 45 days would have been a waste of time.