Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by colddog04

I love the idea of fast travel.

I like that the game is a persistent world that is mostly open. (unilke GW1)

I feel like it is nearly impossible not to have load screens for personal story instances.

I can accept that there is a load screen between major zone clumps and inner city hubs.

 I'm with you...I just don't think this is that big of a deal.  I know it's my opinion, but well...that's what it is.

IMO, having too much instancing is a HUGE problem...but having a loading screen every now and then isn't a big deal at all unless its too excessive.  I mean in EQ, you had TONS of loading screens and EQ is generally regarded as an immersive game.

Here's the difference and the problem.

In UO, you had to actually work to be able to fast-travel. Not only did you have to discover the locations but you determined where to mark, not the game. You also needed to have reagents, runes, and enough skill to mark the runes. In Guild Wars, you just open the map and PRESTO! There is a difference and although it might be considered a small difference by some, it's the difference between immersion and not. For me, clicking map hubs in Guild Wars breaks immersion.

Too many loading screens suck too as they also break immersion. If you have too many they become similar to commercials breaking up your TV show or movie. AoC is a good example of what NOT to do.

These may seem like nothing to you but for many gamers these are serious immersive issues/problems.

 That's not how I remember it :)!

In UO, you went to a local player vendor that sold runes to popular places.  You bought the runes for a reasonable price.  You could then fast travel to any of those places without ever having to discover them and make copies of your runes just in case you died.

Yes, you could buy them but I always remarked somewhere else. Once again, there IS a difference, that being work.

In GW2, at least you have to actually go to the location first ;).  And as for reagents?  Big deal...if you were a mage, getting reagents was normal for you.  You just bought them from a vendor.  It was only difficult to do this when you were first starting out.

Like I said, it might not be a big deal to you but for many gamers out there it is. Fast travel in Guild Wars is cheesy at best. In UO, someone had to do the work, including finding and buying the marked runes if you so choose. There IS a difference.

Loading screens...sure okay.  But it really is a question of degrees.  If you are getting a loading screen like every 5 minutes, that's terrible.  But if you only get a loading screen like every 4 hours...I wouldn't really care.  It's just too infrequent.  I can't say for certain how many loading screens there will be in GW2...but I don't think they will be all that frequent.

I would agree. I don't mind an occasional loading screen say at start-up but there's a point where it becomes really intrusive. I imagine there will be pretty much the same number of loading screens in GW2 but we'll see.

And as for AoC...I don't really remember that many loading screens.  If I recall correctly...you basically went to a zone (loading screen), stayed in the zone for a long time doing quests or whatever, and then eventually left the zone (loading screen).

Zoning, loading screens...it doesn't matter, the point is they break immersion. AoC was the absolute WORST I've seen for that, just horrible and one of the reasons I quit.

I dunno, maybe I'm just used to loading screens from older games so I accept them as normal.

It's all about personal opinions but there are game mechanics I detest and GW fast travel along with too much zoning or too many loading screens are among them. It makes it difficult to feel like you're actually in the game world when you have these many breaks to the action/game.

I'm hoping ArcheAge will keep these to a minimum because most MMOs out there and on the horizon have these horrid game mechanics.

I guess i will never get it.  In who's game world are you trying to immerse yourself in. because if its not the world created by the people making the game then i think your doing it wrong.  if its written in the lore extensively and a main stape of the world they created how can it be immersion breaking?

Can it be something you dont like about the game, yes.  something you hate about all games, yes.  but i dont get how it can break immersion

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. The days of freedom are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

I know what your talking about in that kind of game, which is completly different from a themepark.  I enjoy open worlds and exploration  with player built towns and all. but we are speaking on a themepark game.

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

there's a personal story that you can follow which would be more of the questing mmo type deal,  but the rest of the game you can pretty much stumble upon DE's and heart around the world, dont ever have to pick up a quest to join in.   however there are people that will point you in the right direction and that you can talk to to get a little more info on the situation of you so choose

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by colddog04

I love the idea of fast travel.

I like that the game is a persistent world that is mostly open. (unilke GW1)

I feel like it is nearly impossible not to have load screens for personal story instances.

I can accept that there is a load screen between major zone clumps and inner city hubs.

 I'm with you...I just don't think this is that big of a deal.  I know it's my opinion, but well...that's what it is.

IMO, having too much instancing is a HUGE problem...but having a loading screen every now and then isn't a big deal at all unless its too excessive.  I mean in EQ, you had TONS of loading screens and EQ is generally regarded as an immersive game.

Here's the difference and the problem.

In UO, you had to actually work to be able to fast-travel. Not only did you have to discover the locations but you determined where to mark, not the game. You also needed to have reagents, runes, and enough skill to mark the runes. In Guild Wars, you just open the map and PRESTO! There is a difference and although it might be considered a small difference by some, it's the difference between immersion and not. For me, clicking map hubs in Guild Wars breaks immersion.

Too many loading screens suck too as they also break immersion. If you have too many they become similar to commercials breaking up your TV show or movie. AoC is a good example of what NOT to do.

These may seem like nothing to you but for many gamers these are serious immersive issues/problems.

 That's not how I remember it :)!

In UO, you went to a local player vendor that sold runes to popular places.  You bought the runes for a reasonable price.  You could then fast travel to any of those places without ever having to discover them and make copies of your runes just in case you died.

Yes, you could buy them but I always remarked somewhere else. Once again, there IS a difference, that being work.

In GW2, at least you have to actually go to the location first ;).  And as for reagents?  Big deal...if you were a mage, getting reagents was normal for you.  You just bought them from a vendor.  It was only difficult to do this when you were first starting out.

Like I said, it might not be a big deal to you but for many gamers out there it is. Fast travel in Guild Wars is cheesy at best. In UO, someone had to do the work, including finding and buying the marked runes if you so choose. There IS a difference.

Loading screens...sure okay.  But it really is a question of degrees.  If you are getting a loading screen like every 5 minutes, that's terrible.  But if you only get a loading screen like every 4 hours...I wouldn't really care.  It's just too infrequent.  I can't say for certain how many loading screens there will be in GW2...but I don't think they will be all that frequent.

I would agree. I don't mind an occasional loading screen say at start-up but there's a point where it becomes really intrusive. I imagine there will be pretty much the same number of loading screens in GW2 but we'll see.

And as for AoC...I don't really remember that many loading screens.  If I recall correctly...you basically went to a zone (loading screen), stayed in the zone for a long time doing quests or whatever, and then eventually left the zone (loading screen).

Zoning, loading screens...it doesn't matter, the point is they break immersion. AoC was the absolute WORST I've seen for that, just horrible and one of the reasons I quit.

I dunno, maybe I'm just used to loading screens from older games so I accept them as normal.

It's all about personal opinions but there are game mechanics I detest and GW fast travel along with too much zoning or too many loading screens are among them. It makes it difficult to feel like you're actually in the game world when you have these many breaks to the action/game.

I'm hoping ArcheAge will keep these to a minimum because most MMOs out there and on the horizon have these horrid game mechanics.

I guess i will never get it.  In who's game world are you trying to immerse yourself in. because if its not the world created by the people making the game then i think your doing it wrong.  if its written in the lore extensively and a main stape of the world they created how can it be immersion breaking?

Can it be something you dont like about the game, yes.  something you hate about all games, yes.  but i dont get how it can break immersion

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. The days of freedom are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

I know what your talking about in that kind of game, which is completly different from a themepark.  I enjoy open worlds and exploration  with player built towns and all. but we are speaking on a themepark game.

Well, they are boasting GW2 as an open world, are they not? But yes, it is a themepark.

The problem is, game companies keep trying to pull in everyone by claiming the game is for everyone because it has everything which is a lie. Gamers may be gullable but they're not stupid, they're starting to figure this whole marketing charade out.

"Fool me once"...or in this case many times. 

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

there's a personal story that you can follow which would be more of the questing mmo type deal,  but the rest of the game you can pretty much stumble upon DE's and heart around the world, dont ever have to pick up a quest to join in.   however there are people that will point you in the right direction and that you can talk to to get a little more info on the situation of you so choose

I would say story mode is more like doing instances from what I've seen. You do talk to people and run around and advance the main story quest, but they seem to lead to dungeons. They certainly aren't quest hubs at all.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.

Actually, there are a some quest givers in the world that ask you to bring them X number of items.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.

That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.

That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.

I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.

Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.

I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.

This whole discussion seems awkward to me. I can think of like maybe 2 games in PC gaming history that did not have loading screens. Loading screens are a normal part of MMORPG gaming not a rarity. Seems to me there is a few people who think that game companies should have moved past the era of load screens and moved foreward but they have an almost ignorant knowledge of game design.

Creating worlds with no load screens severly taxes the resources required to operate a game. Zoneing allows for less load to be placed on tehs erver hardware and lowers the cost of running a MMORPG. There are other concerns that can go along with these thigns like maybe something in a particular zone bugs out, Zone data can be transferred to a backup server and keep running while developers fix the problem with no more then a simple zone crash and not have to bring down a whole server. Again these are just a few concerns and hurdles on the list when a developer debates about adding or dropping zoneing in the game, and there are far more that I dont really feel like trying to explain with my own limited knowledge.

In all fairness some people may really be so anal retentive that they need a zone free world to enjoy a game. But 99.9% of MMORPG gamers dont and have proven that through their loyalty to each individuals game of choice. But I think this is more of a last ditch effort to throw some mud at GW2, because Zoneing didn't seem to be a  issue with releases of  EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift, Aion, WAR, LOTRO, SW:TOR, DCUO, CoH, AoC, STO, DDO, or any of the other countless MMORPGs out there with zoneing.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.

That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.

I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.

 

Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.

 

I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.

So what are you saying, there's no town zoning like in GW1? Towns are instances, no?

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.

That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.

That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc.... 

Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet  to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

In Guild Wars 2 you don't get the quests. The quests get you.

Dynamic events happen in the world whether or not you're there to participate, the world doesn't care. You have the choice, as you come across these 1500+ events, to participate or not.

Originally posted by NeoZcar2

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.

That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.

That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc.... 

 

Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet  to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.

Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?

Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?

Originally posted by Zekiah

Well, they are boasting GW2 as an open world, are they not? But yes, it is a themepark.

The problem is, game companies keep trying to pull in everyone by claiming the game is for everyone because it has everything which is a lie. Gamers may be gullable but they're not stupid, they're starting to figure this whole marketing charade out.

"Fool me once"...or in this case many times. 

Not open world as in sandbox... open world as in persistent world where you're out there with everyone else. They've never tried to falsely claim they're a sandbox. What they are offering is your choice on how to experience the game... there's the PvE side, the WvW side (where you can completely level up, gear up, etc. if  you wish) and the competitive PvP side (where you're boosted to 80, given full skill and gear access and placed on equal footing with all other competitive players).

Originally posted by Zekiah

Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?

Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?

In Skyrim I have to zone to use the bathroom in my house... what's Skyrim have to do with anything?

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Zekiah

Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?

Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?

In Skyrim I have to zone to use the bathroom in my house... what's Skyrim have to do with anything?

Someone tried to compare Skyrim's open world to GW2, that's what. You can't travel the entire map in GW2 without zoning, correct?

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by NeoZcar2

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Zekiah

And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.

Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.

Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs. 

Where do you get the quests?

They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.

That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.

That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc.... 

 

Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet  to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.

Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?

Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?

 Actually in Skyrim you have to zone whenever you enter a city or a dungeon.  So...yeah, it has zoning :).

There is a mod that allows you to go into cities without zoning, but that's a mod and not in the default game.

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by colddog04

I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.

 

Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.

 

I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.

So what are you saying, there's no town zoning like in GW1? Towns are instances, no?

In GW1, when you left town, you were in your own instance (or with your group). In GW2, you are playing with other people when you leave town.  

In GW1, when you entered town, you were with other people. In GW2, you are still playing with other people when you enter town.

So, in Skyrim, you move from the world to the town. There is a loading screen. This is because the area tends to be more populated and there are certain restraints on how much you are able to do without dedicating a zone to it. The same goes for Guild Wars 2 and all the other games that have certain zoning points. 

From what I've seen, these points don't seem to be excessive and actually look to be quite rare. They are in between world and town. They are between major zone and major zone. I saw one video where a guy walked from one setting to the next seemlessly, so it at least appears to me at first glance they were able to keep the zones fairly large.