I've read the recent interview translation from the EU fan day and it reminded me of a few things made ArenaNet respectable in my eyes.

They supported Gw1 so much after its initial release with countless updates. You can argue that not much content came out in terms of things to do but I counter with the fact that many systems were introduced or changed throughout the years and players who did not buy the expansion packs also recieved global updates as well. To me this was one of the most important things that may have made Gw1 so good for players who stayed with the game.

I will touch on the business model next. Now Gw1 released major content through expansion packs promised every 6 months, the very idea is ludicrous and some time after they discovered that this was in fact true. I imagine that pushing out such large amounts of content was a monumental task on top of keeping the existing content running. This probably meant the team was under a lot of pressure to release content with little to no money coming in after initial box profits.

Now my thoughts on Gw2 post release. I hope that the cash shop is not evil. I really think they can pull it off if they can manage to do that right. If the cash shop works for them it means they can release better free updates (in theory) and allow them to put the 'cool' smaller ideas into the game AND work on future major expansions without the stress of having no revenue until the next big thing.

If you've played Gw1 from the beginning try to remember what it was like on release. The way that skill points worked, the bank storage, no material storage, no zaishen pvp, no zaishen menagerie, no hero henchmen and I've lost count of the skill balances.

It's kind of exciting to imagine how Gw2 will change over the years. I wonder if there will be as much support? I've read that they are betting their entire company on this game and if it sinks (doesn't seem likely at the moment) it will be a devastating blow to the company. They will not release until the core systems are completely ready but they say that they have content ideas for post release. It seems they understand that the development does not end at release and I hope they will make Gw2 even better than we thought it could be.

I think Blizzard said it best - "Nobody remembers if the game was late, only if the game was great."

Which companies do you respect and why?

Edit - Are there other memorable games you love even more after major patches?

I'm not sure exactly what you're point is, exactly. They are indeed trying to make the game as solid as possible prior to release.

For the first game they had dozens of beta events leading up to launch, where they were constantly tweaking things in game. You also said it right about the support & content updates for the game. They've consistantly been maintaining the game since launch, and there was a lot of content that was added for free.

They did make mistakes (the warrior class), but they owned up to this and are trying to correct some of these with the 2nd game. The cash shop has always been a tertiary means of income for them. It's there to support them, not as a cash grab. Even from the first game, they've managed to get a good amount of income from the cash shop, without forcing it on the players. Nothing I've seen so far leads me to believe that the current outcry is anything valid at this time.

There will be a point in which the CS NDA lifts, and we will hear about it I'm sure. But for now, they are doing what they can to make the game as polished as possible prior to release. They also are preparing to dropping the NDA this month as well, so they've got to be fairly close to a final product.

No real point to it really. Just some thoughts that came to mind. Just for the sake of discussion and stuff.

Perhaps I should ask this. Which companies do you respect and why?

Originally posted by Magnetia

No real point to it really. Just some thoughts that came to mind. Just for the sake of discussion and stuff.

Perhaps I should ask this. Which companies do you respect and why?

Valve/Steam I guess, while they lack a bit in certain areas where they could do more right for their customers, its more than above the average that you see around this days. Bethesda for suporting pc with mod tools, because If a game came with SDK we wouldn't need DLC's for pc, and community could do everything.

Arena net was  kinda on the fence, while I do think GW is a great game, and they managed it well, can't help but being a bit skeptical of GW2, however having seen 1st hand what the ingame shop mixes with the items drops and the game overall, im actually very impressed

Oooh Valve for Half life, Portal 1+2, Team fortress 2. Much agreement there.

Steam is great even though it takes a year to load any game. I have bought many games because of their specials and a fair amount of DLC too.

A lot of respect to the Humble Indie Bundle folks too.

arenanet...and steam a little bit 

Only thing that concerns me post-release, is that like you said, after the box-money has been spents, what income do they have par the cash-shop (and if cash shop gives NO gameplay advantages, what makes people want to buy stuff?)

Cosmetics and boosts only net so much and appeal only to so many people and i don't think that'll be enough revenue...

So i have this fear in the back of my head, that in due time, some advantageous items MIGHT start appearing in the cash-shop sometime after release.. OR they will toss out "Expansion packs" for 30-50€ in short intervals which in other games would be mere patches. (adding perhaps a new class and few zones doesn't in my opinion, warrant a "expansion pack" or its price. Adding a race, a class and a whole new continent and few or more dungeos, now that's an expansion.)

It's one of the things I'm 'worried' about. I mean, we all know how the beginning is of the game, we have all seen the video's. It's the endgame that's pretty vague for me. In particular the PvE bit. Time will tell I guess. I think that ArenaNet will release some content for free. Be that PvE zones/dungeons or new types of PvP/maps. Perhaps once a year an expansion pack.

There aren't many companies I really respect. Bioware kind of lost it with their last few games and the same goes for Blizzard. At the moment I like Riot Games and Paradox. They deliver solid games and their interaction with their respectives communities is pretty good.

Originally posted by MikkelB

It's one of the things I'm 'worried' about. I mean, we all know how the beginning is of the game, we have all seen the video's. It's the endgame that's pretty vague for me. In particular the PvE bit. Time will tell I guess. I think that ArenaNet will release some content for free. Be that PvE zones/dungeons or new types of PvP/maps. Perhaps once a year an expansion pack.

There aren't many companies I really respect. Bioware kind of lost it with their last few games and the same goes for Blizzard. At the moment I like Riot Games and Paradox. They deliver solid games and their interaction with their respectives communities is pretty good.

Pretty much this is my main concern as well. It seems to me that retention of players for the long term could be an issue as well, if the sole motivation for WvWvW is fun, then it will not last forever. Like it or not, people like achievable goals.

I guess for me it all goes back to community building, and for a community to build, you need people who will be around a good, long while.  I played EQ with people I met at level 1-9 for literally years, across three different games. I made real, solid friendships, that persist outside of the game world. I would love it if GW2 could provide that environment, but I am a bit skeptical of it's longevity.

That said, I will play it and have fun.

As for companies that I respect? Pretty much any indie company with the balls enough to try something new. Usually it is a collasal failure, but it took courage.

I think people are being a little unfair to Blizzard. Even though I do not enjoy WoW anymore I would still recommend it to someone who hasn't experienced an MMO. I remember playing it for the first time and getting lost in every nook and cranny of the world. It was a little unfortunate that I could not experience the older content at the intended level I still enjoyed going through them. I started just before ToTc and raided through a bit of Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel and upto Firelands. I left because I got bored of grinding dailies.

Something I feel that is commonly overlooked are their other franchises. I thought Starcraft 2 was as close to a masterpiece as it could be. The singleplayer was one of the most satisfying gameplay experiences I've had and really can't wait for the rest of the story. The new support for custom games is great and they seem to support their competitive multiplayer scene as well. Not really praising them for milking it out into three separate products though. I am unsure if i can say it's worth 3 box prices just yet.

Diablo III for me is about the story. The core gameplay really remains the same with new graphics and some fresh mechanics thrown in so I'm not terribly overwhelmed by that but I desperately want to know what happened after Tyrael destroyed the Worldstone. That single ending cut scene has kept me curious since I finished LOD. The brothers were defeated but we lost what seemed like a pretty important part of the world and surely there had to be consequences. I really can't wait to see what happens between the endless clicking!

I wasn't trying to bash Blizzard or anything, I just don't like them anymore as I used to. Starcraft 2 didn't differ much from Starcraft 1, even though it has been in development for ages. They promised a campaign with a lot of choices (perhaps I can find that powerpoint slide they showed at a Blizzcon event), but in the end it was only two different maps or something like that. Then they even split it up in three boxes. I wouldn't be suprised if they even charged full price for all of them. For me it's the same with Diablo 3. Sure it fun for people that want a dungeon crawler, there aren't many games like that on the market. But to me it looks pretty much like Diablo 2 with a few improvements out of other dungeoncrawlers. Then there is the case that the PvP part is going to be released in a seperate patch post-launch. They say it will be for free, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's going to be DLC.

Now, I enjoyed playin WoW and I never thought I would say this, but that game is getting simpler and easier with every patch. Perhaps I should say 'more accessable'. My experience however went downhill with every new patch. I has mostly to do with pugging though, seeing that I'm not the right person for a hardcore guild. But the raid/dungeon finder has pretty much ruined that game for me. But hey, to each his own I guess.

So from what I can see, Blizzard is getting stale. At least Warcraft 3 had the hero system. Even if you don't like it, it was something new. Starcraft 2 is just Starcraft with some improvements and a new coat of paint. Diablo 3 is kind of doing the same thing. WoW is heading in a direction that I just don't like, so I won't hold that against them :P

I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.

I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.

I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:
- instances everywhere
- delevel/uplevel
- no world pvp/ open conflict
- pve only in hub zones
- solo unfriendly
- lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.
- no raids??

PS. I will not pay in advance a game until i will try it. No free trial, no buy from me anymore. I am tired of lies.

Originally posted by catplay

I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.

I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.

I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:
- instances everywhere
- delevel/uplevel
- no world pvp/ open conflict
- pve only in hub zones
- solo unfriendly
- lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.
- no raids??

PS. I will not pay in advance a game until i will try it. No free trial, no buy from me anymore. I am tired of lies.

i disagree, not many instances except the solo story, some dungeons and the massive battleground/wVw

delevel/uplevel doesnt make the game easy, it gives you more to do

Solo unfriendly... content scales with the number of players.. take down an elite mob on your own is tough, as it is with other players

Combat.. requires thought and non key spams, dodge is only necessary occasionally however keeping out of Aoe etc is essential

---

Originally posted by alanthecelt

---

Originally posted by catplay
I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.
I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.
I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:
- instances everywhere
- delevel/uplevel
- no world pvp/ open conflict
- pve only in hub zones
- solo unfriendly
- lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.
- no raids??
PS. I will not pay in advance a game until i will try it. No free trial, no buy from me anymore. I am tired of lies.

---

i disagree, not many instances except the solo story, some dungeons and the massive battleground/wVw
delevel/uplevel doesnt make the game easy, it gives you more to do
Solo unfriendly... content scales with the number of players.. take down an elite mob on your own is tough, as it is with other players
Combat.. requires thought and non key spams, dodge is only necessary occasionally however keeping out of Aoe etc is essential
 

---

I am not forcing you to agree at all. I just said, what i dont like. And a lot of peoples did not played the game and they expect way to much.

And combat is not relaxing.. I played GW1 years, is kinda the same stuff + dodge. Not next gen at all..

Originally posted by catplay

I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.

I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.

I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:
- instances everywhere
- delevel/uplevel
- no world pvp/ open conflict
- pve only in hub zones
- solo unfriendly
- lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.
- no raids??

PS. I will not pay in advance a game until i will try it. No free trial, no buy from me anymore. I am tired of lies.

It's your loss then really because everything you just listed is either completely untrue (the combat is nothing like GW1 with dodge, not even in the slightest possible way), untested at this stage (not solo friendly?) or simply a matter of opinion. You contradict yourself as well; you want solo friendly but you also want raids, makes little sense.

If you enter new experiences from a negative point of view to start with you will rarely be happy with anything.

"Love like you've never been hurt before" <-- popular phrase yeh? Same thing applies to everything when trying something new or different. Try new things assuming they could be great, not assuming they are going to be bad. It'll make your whole life better.

---

Originally posted by Vannor

---

Originally posted by catplay
I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.
I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.
I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:
- instances everywhere
- delevel/uplevel
- no world pvp/ open conflict
- pve only in hub zones
- solo unfriendly
- lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.
- no raids??
PS. I will not pay in advance a game until i will try it. No free trial, no buy from me anymore. I am tired of lies.

---

It's your loss then really because everything you just listed is either completely untrue (the combat is nothing like GW1 with dodge, not even in the slightest possible way), untested at this stage (not solo friendly?) or simply a matter of opinion. You contradict yourself as well; you want solo friendly but you also want raids, makes little sense.
If you enter new experiences from a negative point of view to start with you will rarely be happy with anything.
"Love like you've never been hurt before" <-- popular phrase yeh? Same thing applies to everything when trying something new or different. Try new things assuming they could be great, not assuming they are going to be bad. It'll make your whole life better.

---

Is not that. The problem is that there are to many things what i dont like, more that i like.

And again, i will not preorder or order the game with out a free trial to see how it is. I dont want to be blind again.

Originally posted by catplay

I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.

I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.

I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:
- instances everywhere
- delevel/uplevel
- no world pvp/ open conflict
- pve only in hub zones
- solo unfriendly
- lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.
- no raids??

PS. I will not pay in advance a game until i will try it. No free trial, no buy from me anymore. I am tired of lies.

I like it that they try something other then the Holy Trinity. Guild Wars 2 system seems more based on player skill then 'oh noes, the tank/healer fucked up' and everyone dies. They need to tone down the particle effects a bit, but from the vid's I've seen, dungeons seem engaging.

I don't really understand why Guild Wars 2 would be solo unfriendly. A lot of the game is scaled to accommodate more players. It also goes the other way, though champion/veteran mobs will still be harder to kill.

Some of your points also don't make sense. You say you've waited for Guild Wars 2, but since the beginning ArenaNet said that PvP and PvE were going to be separated from eachother. Sidekicking and the combat system has been known for a few years too. Same goes for the instancing part. So, what were you exactly expecting in Guild Wars 2, if you were waiting for it?

Originally posted by catplay

I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.

I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.

I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:
- instances everywhere
- delevel/uplevel
- no world pvp/ open conflict
- pve only in hub zones
- solo unfriendly
- lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.
- no raids??

PS. I will not pay in advance a game until i will try it. No free trial, no buy from me anymore. I am tired of lies.

Why do you spread so many lies? These things are simply not true. Please educate yourself on the game sir. 

Here's a thought -

The dynamic events system has the potential to add unlimited horizontal content expansion seemlessly.

Since the DE's branch out and are different based on fail/win conditions and status of Meta events in the area etc, Anet could in theory simply add more possible branches to already established DE chains.

This is super win.

In a "traditional" quest system, each quest is allocated specific areas of the map that are rigidly controlled for quest flow and respawn time and mob density etc etc.

The only way to add to an existing area is to either increase density or do what they did in WoW for Cataclysm, just re-do the zone.

Because the DE's are more "fluid" you can simply add more branches to a DE chain that happen to occupy the same area of the map because they don't exist at the same time as other steps in the chain.

Know what I mean?

That is what I am looking forward to post release - I hope they even do these additions without telling us, the players, so we could be doing some DE's and suddenly find ourselves in a brand new scenario/situation we haven't seen before.

Very cool prospects.

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by catplay

I have waited for GW2. However, i will not buy it because i dont like what i will get. But that's just me.

I think lots of peoples will buy it expecting next gen mmo. But they will be disappointed as soon as they reach max level.

I dont want to turn away fanboys, but for me the game fail because:
- instances everywhere
- delevel/uplevel
- no world pvp/ open conflict
- pve only in hub zones
- solo unfriendly
- lame combat system with active dodge ( dungeon with no tank/healer are just way to chaotic). this will draw many many players away, not just me.
- no raids??

PS. I will not pay in advance a game until i will try it. No free trial, no buy from me anymore. I am tired of lies.

 

Why do you spread so many lies? These things are simply not true. Please educate yourself on the game sir. 

It's hard to believe there is somebody out there so uninformed about GW2 like this guy.

Considering the amount of knowledge and beta footage available all over the internet.