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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Will GW2 have any big boss fights with no tank class?

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30 posts found
  IGBT

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/12
Posts: 21

 
OP  4/03/12 9:28:44 AM#1

I am assuming that since everyone can heal and there are no dedicated healers that everyone can tank and there are no dedicated tanks (would be silly to say we want groups to not have to look for healers and then require groups to look for tanks).

 

So...will there never be a monster that can 1 shot a non tank class since everyone can tank?  No longer will we have 5 people chaining heals on one person so they can withstand 30,000 point crits?

Or will a 40 man raid against a world boss just be a free for all with everyone grabbing agro, dying, then getting battle rezzed.

That could be quite interesting actually.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

4/03/12 9:39:40 AM#2

Heheh I think you probably assumed wrong when you assumed that every class can "tank" :).  My understanding is that there is no possible way in GW2 just absorb damage from a MOB for an extended period of time and not die horribly.  In other words, there is no tanking.

There is damage CONTROL, which basically means somehow mitigating damage by things like CC, debuffs, or buffs...but there is no way to "tank" something.  From what I have seen, boss fights in GW2 seem to be about trying to find a way to use your team's abilities in order to overcome a challenge.

So instead of just sending the tank in to take his beating while the healer heals...you may decide that you'll have your mesmer debuff the crap out of the boss, while the warrior uses his knockbacks to keep him away from the squishy casters that are pelting him with damage.  Then, when someone inevitably falls, the Guardian will use his bubble to give your team a chance to rez the fallen.

Stuff like that...there is no one set strategy like the trinity, but there are many different strategies that will work.

 

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  bookworm438

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/10
Posts: 649

4/03/12 9:41:42 AM#3

There are certainly tanky classes, and there are certainly classes (and builds of some classes such as earth ele) that can take more of a beating. However, there are no tanks in the tradition sense of standing in front of a mob and taking hit after hit. You will die quickly if you do that.

  IGBT

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/12
Posts: 21

 
OP  4/03/12 9:42:55 AM#4

So...it won't be like when we took 25 level 1 characters and downed Hogger?  I am kind of dissapointed...

  Arachneus1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/25/06
Posts: 243

4/03/12 9:46:54 AM#5

There is no way to control who holds aggro, so the "tank" class is now the "control" class who needs to keep the enemies away from whoever the mob decides to go after.  If your targeted you better be able to teleport, dodge, do whatever you can to keep your distance if you can't take a decent hit.  If you are an armor heavy class then you can take a few hits before calling your teammates to push him away while you go off and heal for a second.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

4/03/12 9:50:54 AM#6
Originally posted by IGBT

So...it won't be like when we took 25 level 1 characters and downed Hogger?  I am kind of dissapointed...

 Haha, I'm guessing it won't be like that :).  Maybe a mega dynamic event boss will be like that though, who knows!

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  bookworm438

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/10
Posts: 649

4/03/12 9:51:50 AM#7

Well you have to understand healing in this game is not like other games. There are no ally targetted heals. Instead, some of your skills may have a secondary AoE effect in addition to it's initial effect. This could be, damages the enemy, but heals nearby allys.  There are ground targetted heals as well.

 

The idea instead is that you should be more focused on controlling the mob, and proactively trying to prevent taking damage than watching red bars go up and down. If a mob becomes out of control, an ele could throw down a static field, or guardian could throw down a ward to trap a mob.  This will allow people a second to regroup and try a different tactic.

 

Also to answer your question, yes there will be mobs that can kill you in 1-2 shots, especially if you are not at the right level. So therefore, the idea is to not get aggro. (Also note that the aggro system doesn't work like other MMOs. There is no taunting, or artificially creating aggro).

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

4/03/12 9:52:52 AM#8

I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?

  Bhorzo

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/10
Posts: 193

4/03/12 9:58:45 AM#9
Originally posted by Maephisto

I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?

ONE of many things mobs think about when deciding who to attack is proximity/range. The closer you are, the more likely the average mob will attack you. Note that this is only ONE factor out of many, and only applies to SOME mobs, SOME of the time. The Devs do, however, suggest that this is one of the more important factors in determining aggro.

  bazak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/07
Posts: 290

4/03/12 10:00:09 AM#10
Originally posted by Maephisto

I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?

yes they only ever said proximity was a factor in agro not that it was the whole of their agro system.

 

if you believe what they say (i do personaly since i played gw1) its based on who is easyest to kill (squishyest) and who is doing the most dmg and a number of other things that i cant remember atm, but they could have changed that since the last time i read about it.

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

4/03/12 10:02:09 AM#11
Originally posted by Bhorzo
Originally posted by Maephisto

I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?

ONE of many things mobs think about when deciding who to attack is proximity/range. The closer you are, the more likely the average mob will attack you. Note that this is only ONE factor out of many, and only applies to SOME mobs, SOME of the time. The Devs do, however, suggest that this is one of the more important factors in determining aggro.

Thx for the info 

As people have said above, there is no tank, but I dont figure you can let a dungeon boss bounce around unrestricted.  Thats why I thought proximity was the way to control this.  Team mates would have to be swapped out and take turns controlling the boss.

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2528

4/03/12 10:35:43 AM#12


Originally posted by Maephisto


Originally posted by Bhorzo


Originally posted by Maephisto

I remember reading/hearing that aggro can be managed through proximity to the mob.  Am I wrong?


ONE of many things mobs think about when deciding who to attack is proximity/range. The closer you are, the more likely the average mob will attack you. Note that this is only ONE factor out of many, and only applies to SOME mobs, SOME of the time. The Devs do, however, suggest that this is one of the more important factors in determining aggro.


Thx for the info 
As people have said above, there is no tank, but I dont figure you can let a dungeon boss bounce around unrestricted.  Thats why I thought proximity was the way to control this.  Team mates would have to be swapped out and take turns controlling the boss.

Work together and figure out how boss reacts and your ok your all TANK-HEALER-DPS now :)

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  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

4/03/12 10:40:12 AM#13

Use the dodge button!!!

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  IGBT

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/12
Posts: 21

 
OP  4/03/12 10:41:32 AM#14

With those type of game mechanics and no defined tank, I predict there will be some elite players who manage to figure out how to solo content meant for large groups.  I actually like this kind of out of the box playstyle.

  skeaser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 3689

Don't die mad, just die.

4/03/12 10:42:12 AM#15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX8GJcGIVbI

Shatterer boss fight. Looks like a big boss fight to me.


A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

  therez0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/08
Posts: 382

4/04/12 12:41:42 AM#16

So far they have revealed several fairly big boss fights. Three of the revealed ones happen to be at the end of the tutorial sections (Giant earth elemental hand that flings boulders, an Ice Wurm that flings you around, and a possessed statue that frequently knocks people down). While not huge fights (only around 20 people max in the videos of those fights) they are great examples of whats to come.

Plus, theres the videos of the fight vs. the shatterer and another videos of a second sub-dragon fight. These sub-dragon fights are massive and involved.


So basically what everyone else has said above, now summarized:

  • Boss fights are mostly about learning the mechanic of the boss, and timing your counter.
  • Aggro mechanics are fairly involved. Factors include (speculation via extension from GW1):
    • Monster's Health. Low HP monster will try to avoid damage and will not favor attacking high Dmg targets.
    • Low HP/Downed Targets. High dmg monsters will favor attacking weak people to get them out of the fight
    • High Damage Targets. If a monster group is taking large dmg from a single source, the AI will change to that target, to mitigate dmg.
    • Proximity of target to weakened ally. Some of the smarter AI will collapse on targets that are attacking a weak ally (just like what players should do).
    • Targets using a healing skill. This was a big one in GW1, and probably has shifted to 'targets attempting to revive'
  • Larger boss fights will include more than just attacking the boss. Some people will need to man the cannons while others defend those cannon positions from boss-minions.
  • Some bosses will indeed be able to one-shot certain targets. (We saw as much in the video vs the undead dragon lieutenant, Eles and Mesmers were getting squished). The key to these fights will be to coordinate counters (dodge when you must, step behind defenses else).

  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

4/04/12 1:26:24 AM#17
Originally posted by IGBT

I am assuming that since everyone can heal and there are no dedicated healers that everyone can tank and there are no dedicated tanks (would be silly to say we want groups to not have to look for healers and then require groups to look for tanks).

 

So...will there never be a monster that can 1 shot a non tank class since everyone can tank?  No longer will we have 5 people chaining heals on one person so they can withstand 30,000 point crits?

Or will a 40 man raid against a world boss just be a free for all with everyone grabbing agro, dying, then getting battle rezzed.

That could be quite interesting actually.

 The short point is everybody can be 1 shotted, and everybody can ressurrect. So Clearly your option 2

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

4/04/12 4:29:56 AM#18

Giant bosses don't exactly single out players. Sometimes they'll chase one down, but generally they'd do wide, sweeping attacks that hit anyone who doesn't get out of the way.

There's more to removing tanks and healers than simply removing tanks and healers.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  Skuall

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 809

4/04/12 7:26:48 AM#19

well u dont have tank classes but u have options to be more durable

 

melee classes , have a shield option , shield comes with buffs , knockbacks , stuns

caster : necro has the drains(+pets) in order to get some health back , elementalist > earth , slows, shield , knockbacks, debuffs.

ranger for example : the greatsword option comes with some CC and debuffs

 

and u can have further options if u spec it the right way :D

that means u can tank a boss all the time? no , that means i have more surv. nothing more nothing less.

i loss some dmg , or heal in order to have better debuffs , control or be more durable.

options are always welcomed :D

 

 

 

  Nethriil

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/12
Posts: 185

4/04/12 7:42:10 AM#20
Not to be a downer but from what i ve seen boss fights are very static. So the fight will be the same every time you encounter it. I rather like the fights where you actually have to strategies and encounter changes depending on aggro etc. Anyway gw2 is a pure pvp game for me and i am looking forward to that
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