I wish there was a "Dislike"  or "Not cool" option, just a way to publicly show my dislike on a "Column"  without so much drama...and/or  writing....

Also I think we should know beforehand when a "column" is written by a mmorpg staff or... let's say somebody else. It took me a while to know that.

Originally posted by Drulisle

Live by the sword; die by the sword. So why are MMORPG staff writers crying over this cyber-psychopath's spilt milk?

 

[Mod Edit] He just made the mistake of speaking in to a microphone on a fanfest. I don't like Mittens myself, but the reactions to what he said is mostly faked and "political". Because in truth, no one really gave a damn about W. or his/her problems. They just saw an opportunity to go after Mittens. And that's all they cared about.

Originally posted by phatleet

Also I think we should know beforehand when a "column" is written by a mmorpg staff or... let's say somebody else. It took me a while to know that.

 

It's pretty easy to figure out.  You can click on the author's name at the top of the page.  The link will bring you to their profile.  If their profile looks like this, Staff, it's safe to assume they are part of the staff.

The author is/was (I don't keep up on current events sorry) part of TNT, or Tactical Narcotics Team which have been suckling at the teet of Goons for quite some time.  They are (or at least were) considered 'pets' of Goons, a rather endearing Eve term heh.  So it's no shock that this article was written from a very pro-Mittani POV. 

Personally, I think this was way overblown.  The guy was definitely a jackass and should have never aired this to the public.  Mocking someone who is seriously suicidal is shameful, to say the least.  I do however get the feeling that most of the people who are attacking the Mattani over this could really give two shits about the supposed guy who was suicidal...and just wanted to see a lynching. 

Originally posted by Thorgald

Originally posted by Drulisle

Live by the sword; die by the sword. So why are MMORPG staff writers crying over this cyber-psychopath's spilt milk?

 

[Mod Edit] He just made the mistake of speaking in to a microphone on a fanfest. I don't like Mittens myself, but the reactions to what he said is mostly faked and "political". Because in truth, no one really gave a damn about W. or his/her problems. They just saw an opportunity to go after Mittens. And that's all they cared about.

Absolutely wrong as I stopped playing Eve years ago and didn't know Mittani then, nor do I care how he acts in-game. As for his actions in public, yes, even at a convention, does not excuse his behavior, drunk induced or not. Go run through an airport yelling "BOMB" and see how people react to your stupidity. Eve Online has a sick and twisted community, we get it, but let's keep it in-game shall we?

If that doesn't work, maybe someone shouldn't drink in public.

Originally posted by Zillen

I see some people saying things like "It's EVE; you're supposed to gank and attack random people", and "it's an online PvP game, you're supposed to be mean".

I for one have never attempted to gank someone in an online game who never attacked me to start with. If I see someone who is clearly just trying to have fun in their game and do what they need to do to survive, I leave them alone. If they see me and panic, a well-placed emote is more than enough to convince someone that you've let them off the hook. And you know what happens? When they run into me later and I'm in the middle of a fight, they don't join in and attack me. Weird, huh?

Sometimes, I really think it pays to be nice, even in a PvP game. What The Mittani did may have been claimed to be integral to the EVE community. Ganking, personal attacks, the deconstruction of property that has taken years to build and expand upon. Honestly, EVE, your community is sounding like a very cold and unappealing place. 

 

EVE just seems like a game that you need to be a total sociopath to enjoy. It seems like you basically only make worthwhile successes at the costs of others. Then again, I think that's basically a trend in all sandbox MMOs. Ultima Online/Darkfall were all games that your most profitable moments came at the ruination of other people's hard work. UO, it was all about finding ways to loot their houses. Darkfall was all about destroying weeks/months worth of enemy guild's labor for a simple epeen boost. 

I stopped enjoying shit like that when I grew up... at age 15. 

Here, we have one of the community leaders of this game basically saying: "I fucked you in game. Glad your crying. Kill yourself while you're at it - here's the name of the whiner. Go encourage him to."

I think that's pretty telling of the kind of people who enjoy these games. 

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Zaltark

Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.

 

The game is the game, when you confuse it with life you have a problem.

 

Sigh.  Are you awake?

"The game is the game" . . . . who's principal component is RL people.  Not NPCs.

As such, it is a component of RL given the primary dynamic is interaction with RL people.

Just sayin.

Originally posted by umcorian

Originally posted by Zillen

I see some people saying things like "It's EVE; you're supposed to gank and attack random people", and "it's an online PvP game, you're supposed to be mean".

I for one have never attempted to gank someone in an online game who never attacked me to start with. If I see someone who is clearly just trying to have fun in their game and do what they need to do to survive, I leave them alone. If they see me and panic, a well-placed emote is more than enough to convince someone that you've let them off the hook. And you know what happens? When they run into me later and I'm in the middle of a fight, they don't join in and attack me. Weird, huh?

Sometimes, I really think it pays to be nice, even in a PvP game. What The Mittani did may have been claimed to be integral to the EVE community. Ganking, personal attacks, the deconstruction of property that has taken years to build and expand upon. Honestly, EVE, your community is sounding like a very cold and unappealing place. 

 

EVE just seems like a game that you need to be a total sociopath to enjoy. It seems like you basically only make worthwhile successes at the costs of others. Then again, I think that's basically a trend in all sandbox MMOs. Ultima Online/Darkfall were all games that your most profitable moments came at the ruination of other people's hard work. UO, it was all about finding ways to loot their houses. Darkfall was all about destroying weeks/months worth of enemy guild's labor for a simple epeen boost. 

I stopped enjoying shit like that when I grew up... at age 15. 

Here, we have one of the community leaders of this game basically saying: "I fucked you in game. Glad your crying. Kill yourself while you're at it - here's the name of the whiner. Go encourage him to."

I think that's pretty telling of the kind of people who enjoy these games. 

no it's not. what's telling is the community backlash. one person was an ass, and then thousands jumped down his throat. that's telling. if you can't see that then you need to learn about statistics.

I've seen what EVE idiots say to each other in game. The rage was overblown, very political and hypocritical.

You can't convince me that people who act like complete retards in MMOs aren't complete retards outside of the game.

This was standard EVE trash talk, and people saw an opportunity to get back at an infamous villian. I say ban anyone in EVE who talks offensively, or reinstate Mittani with an apology. That would be a consistent message.

Jerks exist in ANY MMO.  Literally, every single MMO I have ever played harbors a category of folks I just don't like to associate with.

The difference in EVE is that you have the ability to kill those players in-game.  Someone harrass you?  Do something about it. It's better than other games where you can't do anything about griefing players.  In EVE, there is a risk associated with behaving like that.  Reputation is actually earned due to its single-server architecture.  This is another thing people don't realize when they think EVE has more of these people than other games.  No... other games probably harbor an equal % of players just like this, but EVE's single server architecture means that EVERYONE experiences the same game.  Everyone is aware of those people.  Everyone in the entire game can be alerted to how badly someone acts.  Sure those people probably have their own friends, but long-term, that bad reputation can harm someone's ability to play the game.

That's why it's kind of funny that anyone is shocked by The Mittani's behavior.  He is the face of -Goonswarm-, the most childish, egotistical group in all of EVE.  A group that THRIVES on that reputation.  They WANT to be hated.  I'm always surprised when someone says they were scammed by Goonswarm, because I have to wonder how they didn't know the group's reputation already.  You'd have to be seriously not paying attention to let Goonswarm get under your skin or do something that takes advantage of you.

Edit:  And further, in a space game, I -want- to be afraid when I'm out in unknown territory.  I don't want to undock and travel across the galaxy with no danger.  I want to be afraid that anyone could kill me at any time.  I want to know that sometimes, when I run across another player, he might be just as afraid of me as I am of him.  In outer space, there should be a sense of danger.. the unknown.. lawlessness, where you don't know who your enemies are until you encounter them.  Earning a reputation helps with some of this.. if you get to know other players through how they act in-game, you know what they're capable of.

Originally posted by atticusbc

Originally posted by umcorian

Originally posted by Zillen

I see some people saying things like "It's EVE; you're supposed to gank and attack random people", and "it's an online PvP game, you're supposed to be mean".

I for one have never attempted to gank someone in an online game who never attacked me to start with. If I see someone who is clearly just trying to have fun in their game and do what they need to do to survive, I leave them alone. If they see me and panic, a well-placed emote is more than enough to convince someone that you've let them off the hook. And you know what happens? When they run into me later and I'm in the middle of a fight, they don't join in and attack me. Weird, huh?

Sometimes, I really think it pays to be nice, even in a PvP game. What The Mittani did may have been claimed to be integral to the EVE community. Ganking, personal attacks, the deconstruction of property that has taken years to build and expand upon. Honestly, EVE, your community is sounding like a very cold and unappealing place. 

 

EVE just seems like a game that you need to be a total sociopath to enjoy. It seems like you basically only make worthwhile successes at the costs of others. Then again, I think that's basically a trend in all sandbox MMOs. Ultima Online/Darkfall were all games that your most profitable moments came at the ruination of other people's hard work. UO, it was all about finding ways to loot their houses. Darkfall was all about destroying weeks/months worth of enemy guild's labor for a simple epeen boost. 

I stopped enjoying shit like that when I grew up... at age 15. 

Here, we have one of the community leaders of this game basically saying: "I fucked you in game. Glad your crying. Kill yourself while you're at it - here's the name of the whiner. Go encourage him to."

I think that's pretty telling of the kind of people who enjoy these games. 

no it's not. what's telling is the community backlash. one person was an ass, and then thousands jumped down his throat. that's telling. if you can't see that then you need to learn about statistics.

 

Oh please. Every indication I've seen shows it has nothing to do with moral indigation. They called for his head because they want to deal a blow to Goonsquad. 

It's just sick. 

Originally posted by MMOarQQ

He's lucky to have been spared the rod of the new cyber bullying laws.

Mittens would have made for a cute correctional facility alias.

Not every country has fallen prey to the "progressive" non sense that is expressed in the "cyber bullying" laws.  That phrase is so vague and so easy to abuse, that its already being used to attack those who "offend" the delicate sensitivities of various "progressive" causes.

There is no doubt that Mittens well and truly put his foot down his own throat with this drunken nonsense, but being removed from the CSM should be where it stops.  Banning (temp or other wise) him for out of game activities (no matter how irresponsible and unwise)  is only being done to appease certain hysterics.  But that too is all to typical of the age we find ourselves in.

Reading this article was like reading someone trolling.  I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.

You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable.  Period, end of story.  This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.

In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have.  Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature.  The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.

Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.

In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now.  I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.

...and by the way.  I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are.  I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community.  Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/spymaster/77

Originally posted by Druft

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/spymaster/77

From the Apology:

Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.

From the Incident:

"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.

Completely different from Cyberbullying........

How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............

He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.

Gotta love crap like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SKC00a0ovTA#t=42%202s

7:00-7:40 its stated that the theme was to tell others to kill themselves lol.... "I didn't mean to say it I was just drunk" doesn't work to well....

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by MMOarQQ

He's lucky to have been spared the rod of the new cyber bullying laws.

Mittens would have made for a cute correctional facility alias.

Not every country has fallen prey to the "progressive" non sense that is expressed in the "cyber bullying" laws.  That phrase is so vague and so easy to abuse, that its already being used to attack those who "offend" the delicate sensitivities of various "progressive" causes.

There is no doubt that Mittens well and truly put his foot down his own throat with this drunken nonsense, but being removed from the CSM should be where it stops.  Banning (temp or other wise) him for out of game activities (no matter how irresponsible and unwise)  is only being done to appease certain hysterics.  But that too is all to typical of the age we find ourselves in.

I think the problem is that when he was up on that stage he was not only talking for himself, but he was representing CCP.  I could care less what he said if he said it on his own platform, but he was there at a CCP event.  There to represent the players for CCP.  Thus what he says is public image for CCP.  He did not watch his mouth so CCP has to smack him for their image not so much to punish him to teach him a lesson.  He has to go out in the cold for awhile while CCP shows how they deal with people that say those kind of things and fix their PR.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Druft

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/spymaster/77

From the Apology:

Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.

 

From the Incident:

"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.

 

 

Completely different from Cyberbullying........

 

How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............

He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.

 

Gotta love crap like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SKC00a0ovTA#t=42%202s

7:00-7:40 its stated that the theme was to tell others to kill themselves lol.... "I didn't mean to say it I was just drunk" doesn't work to well....

Got to love it.  So if I convince others to pick on you I am not a bully. 

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by vorpal28

The reason for this is there is no free speech, and never has been, say something thats not agreed by the masses and you'll be censored so fast your feet won't touch the ground.

Upshot being you don't dare say anything thats not mainstream in fear of being flamed to death.

Here's a qoute for those who know and sums it up rather succinctly:

 "...Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do as we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!.."

 

If you believe something say it, you can only be wrong, you might even be right, but it's your right to speak and be heard, right or wrong.

 

That's a great Hick's quote but I don't see this as the same thing. Speech is free but no one is free from the consequences of their words. You can not urge others to  harass a person in obvious need of help with the intent of driving them to kill themselves..without paying a price. We're suppose to be pursuing happiness..not misery.

"Speech is free but no one is free from the consequences of their words." - so lock him up? Then what does freedom of speech even mean. CCP can do whatever it wants they are not us based and a privete company. But there are many calling for more. Yes criminally you should be free to speak, some now claim not if it would possible hurt someone. 

Really have to read any of the writings of people who outline this freedom in the US? Becuase they incited violence. Lets not confuse propaganda with reailty.

And agian he didn't want him to kill themself, he wanted to punish someone threatening him with suicde, anyone who states otherwise is obviously just in it for the outrage/blood, is obviously disingenuous, and/or lacks any semblance of logical and rational thought.

Originally posted by morlock9

Reading this article was like reading someone trolling.  I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.

 

You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable.  Period, end of story.  This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.

 

In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have.  Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature.  The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.

 

Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.

 

In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now.  I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.

 

...and by the way.  I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are.  I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community.  Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.

You say "a line has to draw a line somewhere", by whom? Indviduals for themselves? I'd quite agree. But all too many people seek to get government involved in these issues. They go on some Crusade or another to "right" the worlds "wrongs", using a system ruled for the most part, in most places, by self seeking sociopaths.  Anyone not familiar with that reality, is either naive, or hasn't been paying attention. 

Mittens went well over the top (as far as I'm concerned) with his drunken diatribe, but removal from the CSM should be the extent of any action taken by CCP.  Much more than that is simply appeasing certain hysterics. 

Later on you speak of this being on "60 minutes", and Mittens having "criminal charges filed". Why limit this to America? Perhaps this needs to be broadcast through out the world? Perhaps Mittens needs to be hauled before the International Court at the Hague?  

Or perhaps, some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that just because something is offensive, doesn't require the type of hysterical responses we've been seeing way too much of for the last few years?

Originally posted by Ausare

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Druft

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/spymaster/77

From the Apology:

Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.

 

From the Incident:

"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.

 

 

Completely different from Cyberbullying........

 

How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............

He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.

 

Gotta love crap like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SKC00a0ovTA#t=42%202s

7:00-7:40 its stated that the theme was to tell others to kill themselves lol.... "I didn't mean to say it I was just drunk" doesn't work to well....

Got to love it.  So if I convince others to pick on you I am not a bully. 

Wait, but the agrument is if he had done this himself he wouldn't have been a bully, he is only a bully because he encouraged others to call that persons bluff.

Double speak much

This has to be the most epic grief in all MMO history. Any of you who say awww poor kid are morons. 20 accounts, read the facts checkmate. I pray to god I could grief someone and take all their shit and then find out they had 20 accounts. They would never hear the end of it. I would make fun of them until I could no longer produce words. This is probably the gayest attempt to care bear a bluebie player that I have ever seen. 

It's just a game.

Period the end. If you don't like the outcome go out, get drunk, and bang a fat chick to forget about it.