Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Laughing-man 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

I think it would make more sense, since you made the statement, to provide proof of what you stated.

 

Also, does that mean that SWTOR required the most fixes?

 

I also have to wonder what your statement has to do with the topic or even what it has to do with the post you quoted. Since we have no clue about how much content or patches ArenaNet is going to put out post launch (not to mention whether or not they will need them), there is no way of comparing the two games when it comes to post launch content/patches.

Well, if you read the post I was replying to, which I assume you did.

Poster was claiming SWTOR didn't fix any of its problems and was very slow to make patches.

I was merely pointing out the falseness of that.

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-rift-news/patch-notes/

VS THIS

3 months (SWTOR)

Vs a year and two months (RIFT)

Seems about the same pace, if not faster.

This has to be said... you consider it a bragging point for a game to be released and require so many fixes so often? Just wondering...

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, you found one, on a 22 second loop. Grats. The Divinities Reach tour beat that in the first 22 seconds just randomly.

Yeah, I found one in .2 seconds of searching.

It was SOO HARD because of how rare NPC conversations are in the game.

 

Rather than target one chat, find me a vid where they walk around the city and you hear the chatter around you like the Divinities Reach one does. I did look. YouTubed SWTOR Cities. Watched the walkthroughs of a few. Every one... quiet, dead. Almost... sterile? Yeah... sterile. Apparently your mastery of the Googles is greater than this young padawan, so help me Laughing Man, you're my only hope.

I'd love to, if only I didn't unsub, I'd make one myself.

Yet sorting through hundreds of youtube videos seems a bit tedious, wouldn't you agree?

I mean since you refuse to do it yourself?

OP, though  Im a TOR supporter and think its a very good game (though I took a break for a couple of weeks), the videos in these pages clearly show the ambience and NPCs are a good percentage less static then TOR. Is it Skyrim? No, but its a very good step in the right direction. Also, Bioware recently admitted that it is on their plate to make the world feel less static..so hopefully later this year it will move more in the direction of this game. Maybe you were expecting hundreds of people roaming around the screen like New Years Eve in Manhattan, but I think that would be unrealstic for performance issues alone.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-rift-news/patch-notes/

VS THIS

3 months (SWTOR)

Vs a year and two months (RIFT)

Seems about the same pace, if not faster.

This has to be said... you consider it a bragging point for a game to be released and require so many fixes so often? Just wondering...

I guess rift is a huge failure too?

Ah yes and patch notes are ALWAYS fixes, they never add new content like raids and quests and such.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Laughing-man 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

I think it would make more sense, since you made the statement, to provide proof of what you stated.

 

Also, does that mean that SWTOR required the most fixes?

 

I also have to wonder what your statement has to do with the topic or even what it has to do with the post you quoted. Since we have no clue about how much content or patches ArenaNet is going to put out post launch (not to mention whether or not they will need them), there is no way of comparing the two games when it comes to post launch content/patches.

Well, if you read the post I was replying to, which I assume you did.

Poster was claiming SWTOR didn't fix any of its problems and was very slow to make patches.

I was merely pointing out the falseness of that.

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

No he wasn't.

I'd just go back and read it. It doesn't really matter. It seems like you are implying a lot from him rather than reading without bias.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, you found one, on a 22 second loop. Grats. The Divinities Reach tour beat that in the first 22 seconds just randomly.

Yeah, I found one in .2 seconds of searching.

It was SOO HARD because of how rare NPC conversations are in the game.

 

Rather than target one chat, find me a vid where they walk around the city and you hear the chatter around you like the Divinities Reach one does. I did look. YouTubed SWTOR Cities. Watched the walkthroughs of a few. Every one... quiet, dead. Almost... sterile? Yeah... sterile. Apparently your mastery of the Googles is greater than this young padawan, so help me Laughing Man, you're my only hope.

I'd love to, if only I didn't unsub, I'd make one myself.

Yet sorting through hundreds of youtube videos seems a bit tedious, wouldn't you agree?

I mean since you refuse to do it yourself?

All I did, admittedly, is put "SWTOR cities" in YouTube and start at the top. Which is strange that all that showed up at the top were tours of dead, dried up cities... why wouldn't the lively ones you claim exist be there? Do I need to search hundreds of vids to actually find a lively one?

Strange... GW2 is the opposite. Wonder why that is...

Originally posted by keithian

OP, though  Im a TOR supporter and think its a very good game (though I took a break for a couple of weeks), the videos in these pages clearly show the ambience and NPCs are a good percentage less static then TOR. Is it Skyrim? No, but its a very good step in the right direction. Also, Bioware recently admitted that it is on their plate to make the world feel less static..so hopefully later this year it will move more in the direction of this game. Maybe you were expecting hundreds of people roaming around the screen like New Years Eve in Manhattan, but I think that would be unrealstic for performance issues alone.

I expected what i am seeing, this topic is about movement not overall ambience. The video I linked was a small desert area , the videos others are linking are for capital cities, of course there will be a difference in how many NPC's are around.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Laughing-man 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

I think it would make more sense, since you made the statement, to provide proof of what you stated.

 

Also, does that mean that SWTOR required the most fixes?

 

I also have to wonder what your statement has to do with the topic or even what it has to do with the post you quoted. Since we have no clue about how much content or patches ArenaNet is going to put out post launch (not to mention whether or not they will need them), there is no way of comparing the two games when it comes to post launch content/patches.

Well, if you read the post I was replying to, which I assume you did.

Poster was claiming SWTOR didn't fix any of its problems and was very slow to make patches.

I was merely pointing out the falseness of that.

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

No he wasn't.

 

I'd just go back and read it. It doesn't really matter. It seems like you are implying a lot from him rather than reading without bias.

Here is his quote

"Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. "

Seems like hes saying other games don't address problems fast enough.

I like that even listening in on conversations can lead you to amazing things.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by keithian

OP, though  Im a TOR supporter and think its a very good game (though I took a break for a couple of weeks), the videos in these pages clearly show the ambience and NPCs are a good percentage less static then TOR. Is it Skyrim? No, but its a very good step in the right direction. Also, Bioware recently admitted that it is on their plate to make the world feel less static..so hopefully later this year it will move more in the direction of this game. Maybe you were expecting hundreds of people roaming around the screen like New Years Eve in Manhattan, but I think that would be unrealstic for performance issues alone.

I expected what i am seeing, this topic is about movement not overall ambience. The video I linked was a small desert area , the videos others are linking are for capital cities, of course there will be a difference in how many NPC's are around.

I think part of the problem is that the capital cities in SWTOR look just as bad as that hub you linked earlier. Or at least very similar.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-rift-news/patch-notes/

VS THIS

3 months (SWTOR)

Vs a year and two months (RIFT)

Seems about the same pace, if not faster.

You said content. They have released one dungeon in what is now nearly 4 months and expanded one raid that should have been ready at launch.

Thats lots of patches, but mostly bug fixes or fixing an exploit they created. Half of them are tiny patches or crap like this:

1.1.5b Patch Notes

3/15/2012.

General

• Corrected an issue allowing incorrect access for Weekend Pass players.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, you found one, on a 22 second loop. Grats. The Divinities Reach tour beat that in the first 22 seconds just randomly.

Yeah, I found one in .2 seconds of searching.

It was SOO HARD because of how rare NPC conversations are in the game.

 

Rather than target one chat, find me a vid where they walk around the city and you hear the chatter around you like the Divinities Reach one does. I did look. YouTubed SWTOR Cities. Watched the walkthroughs of a few. Every one... quiet, dead. Almost... sterile? Yeah... sterile. Apparently your mastery of the Googles is greater than this young padawan, so help me Laughing Man, you're my only hope.

I'd love to, if only I didn't unsub, I'd make one myself.

Yet sorting through hundreds of youtube videos seems a bit tedious, wouldn't you agree?

I mean since you refuse to do it yourself?

All I did, admittedly, is put "SWTOR cities" in YouTube and start at the top. Which is strange that all that showed up at the top were tours of dead, dried up cities... why wouldn't the lively ones you claim exist be there? Do I need to search hundreds of vids to actually find a lively one?

 

Strange... GW2 is the opposite. Wonder why that is...

So in the videos of GW2 I've seen a lot of NPC's patrolling around town, this looks a lot like Stormwind.

Why is that progress?

I'm just confused as to how GW2 is "NIGHT AND DAY" to SWTOR's NPC's when clearly they are rather similar, both games have patrolling NPCs that talk to one another, much the way NPC's do in WoW only with text bubbles.

They are both taking something from WoW

There is a bit more movement in the GW2 cities if that is what you are talking about. Now if it is acceptable the level of immersion that you want, only you can say for sure. I will say this, there will never be an mmo that has the activity of an Assassins Creed game for example.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-rift-news/patch-notes/

VS THIS

3 months (SWTOR)

Vs a year and two months (RIFT)

Seems about the same pace, if not faster.

 I am sorry, but Rift/Trion seem a lot more competant, I played both (and I am not playing either atm).  BW seems to let things drag on a lot longer unfixed, where as Trion hot patched and fixed things so much faster than BW, it is ridiculous.  The PvP exploits would not of lasted like they did, if it was Trion.  They would of been fixed probably the same day...

I am not a big fan of Rift, but Trion is a quality company, and I am impressed by them, I wish they would of took more chances, and done some things differently, but given they are a smaller/new company, and the budget/size of the companies, Trion kills BW imo for post product support.  It isn't even close imo....Thats what killed me so much, I mean I am not a fan of TOR's end game vision either, but it killed me that after a month that basic endgame quests that were nothing special were still broken, not spawning things, and problems were not fixed...I mean they had, depending on who you talk to 4-6 times the budget of Rift...Again, i say this as a person that is not a fan of either...

Originally posted by evilastro

You said content. They have released one dungeon in what is now nearly 4 months and expanded one raid that should have been ready at launch.

Thats lots of patches, but mostly bug fixes or fixing an exploit they created. Half of them are tiny patches or crap like this:

1.1.5b Patch Notes

3/15/2012.

General

• Corrected an issue allowing incorrect access for Weekend Pass players.

 

Or this:

 

1.1.3a Patch Notes

2/14/2012

General

• Using mouse button 5 while hovering over the UI will no longer cause the game client to crash.

 

Excuse me while I stand back in awe at the magnificence of these patches.

YEAH!  They shoulda left that stuff broken!

Or maybe lied about it for a long time saying certain crystal colors are in the game and obtainable just "really hard to do so"

cough cough SWG with Jedi's much?

SWTOR's amount of patches and fixes ARE impressive, if you don't think bug fixes are important or that other games launch with bugs...  Can I have your rose colored glasses? I lost mine.

Originally posted by colddog04

 

I think part of the problem is that the capital cities in SWTOR look just as bad as that hub you linked earlier. Or at least very similar.

What do you mean by bad? Idle chatter and noise or actual movement?

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Laughing-man 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

I think it would make more sense, since you made the statement, to provide proof of what you stated.

 

Also, does that mean that SWTOR required the most fixes?

 

I also have to wonder what your statement has to do with the topic or even what it has to do with the post you quoted. Since we have no clue about how much content or patches ArenaNet is going to put out post launch (not to mention whether or not they will need them), there is no way of comparing the two games when it comes to post launch content/patches.

Well, if you read the post I was replying to, which I assume you did.

Poster was claiming SWTOR didn't fix any of its problems and was very slow to make patches.

I was merely pointing out the falseness of that.

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

No he wasn't.

 

I'd just go back and read it. It doesn't really matter. It seems like you are implying a lot from him rather than reading without bias.

Here is his quote

"Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. "

Seems like hes saying other games don't address problems fast enough.

He thinks they are going to have to address things more quickly than other games because they aren't on a subscription model. 

Which I disagree with.

But he never said anything about SWTOR or the amount of patch notes it has compared to SWTOR. He never even mentioned SWTOR once in his post. And then you went of on a tirade about how SWTOR has had the most patch notes of any game in history.

I still don't see how that is relevant, but whatever.

I think GW2 looks more 'alive', but I really don't get into that stuff too much, unless I could listen to things and find out secrets and hidden things, like it was a puzzle of some sorts...I don't follow GW2 enough to know if that is/isn't the case...I don't get hyped, or follow closely, until it is about to launch.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by keithian

OP, though  Im a TOR supporter and think its a very good game (though I took a break for a couple of weeks), the videos in these pages clearly show the ambience and NPCs are a good percentage less static then TOR. Is it Skyrim? No, but its a very good step in the right direction. Also, Bioware recently admitted that it is on their plate to make the world feel less static..so hopefully later this year it will move more in the direction of this game. Maybe you were expecting hundreds of people roaming around the screen like New Years Eve in Manhattan, but I think that would be unrealstic for performance issues alone.

I expected what i am seeing, this topic is about movement not overall ambience. The video I linked was a small desert area , the videos others are linking are for capital cities, of course there will be a difference in how many NPC's are around.

Isn't movement part of ambience? Why would you want to separate it out? I guess I'm wondering if you're trying to argue that 1) based on what you have seen, there is less movement in GW2 than other people have suggested or that you were led to believe, and you are unhappy about this; 2) that there is not enough movement, and this impacts the ambience and therefore reduces the immersiveness of the game; 3) the level of movement is as good as it gets in MMO and people should stop saying how different GW2 is going to be or 4) ???.

If #4, can you clarify exactly what point you're trying to communicate?