Originally posted by DarkPony

Personally I ♥ what they did with the cities.

The chatter and vista's already rate it miles above Swtor's fleet stations (which I absolutely came to despise). Only Holbroek doesn't seem so appealing to me. The rest seems ace in the immersion department. Whether NPC's are standing still in a lot of cases or not.

(This only becomes an issue when 99% of them are standing still; if you have 10% of npc's performing activities your whole perception changes and it seems they have this covered in GW2).

If I had to decribe the cities I'd say "WOW 2.0" in style and atmosphere as there still is this slightly stylized aspect to them with exagerated colors and proportions here and there and that's great. It oozes "fantasy", rather than "forced realism".

In the city department I won't go anal on Anet. It really seems they did a great job there, but ...

I do have one gripe though: they seem huge ... also most streets and walkways are very broad. Running through them time and time again will be a pain eventually. So yeah, those city vids make it clear to me once again that this game could really do with some mounts.

Gimme a damn reason not to use teleports or to limit their use and to not have to flip flop around the entire world and I'll gladly take it!

The infrastructure to support mounts is there already.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there are Anet devs working on mounts at this very moment  ...

 

Although I like the idea of mounts in the game, I would never want to see them turning up in cities.  Brings up too many memories of WoW asshats sitting their fat mounted asses on top of vendors and questgivers and generally making nuisances of themselves.  Maybe just give players a bit of a speed buff in the cities to offset their scale.  Not a big one though.  I don't personally mind the size of them at all and I wouldn't want to trivialize the experience of walking through them.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Well, give us something else to go by then. Post a video of the lively areas, with NPC activitiy and chatter. Show us once and for all that that's simply a misconception with SWTOR... the whole static, dead-world aspect is simply taken out of context. Simple enough to prove yourself correct on this.

Here is two NPC's talking to each other, in the starter area of Nal Hutta.

Hmm seems like a conversation, it took me 2 seconds to find that with google...

Are you guys saying you can't google this yourselves?

Perhaps you don't understand how arguments work.  We don't make your case for you.  We provide GW2 evidence, you provide SWTOR evidence.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Well, give us something else to go by then. Post a video of the lively areas, with NPC activitiy and chatter. Show us once and for all that that's simply a misconception with SWTOR... the whole static, dead-world aspect is simply taken out of context. Simple enough to prove yourself correct on this.

Here is two NPC's talking to each other, in the starter area of Nal Hutta.

Hmm seems like a conversation, it took me 2 seconds to find that with google...

Are you guys saying you can't google this yourselves?

Funny how i found this just as fast. There are five total videos showing the lack of ambience. I experienced this both here in the starter areas AND in the major cities i went to on the max level toons. I suppose you are going to tell me that this guy's evidence has been tampered with in some way because that's usually the next argument by people who can't handle the truth.

OP posted that in HIS favor, then you post it as an arguement against?

um... have you been reading this thread?

Originally posted by MindTrigger

 

The video was just funny.  As for arguing with you, I'm all full up on that trollfest.  Your post is either an outright troll, or the Captain Obvious post of the week.  

"In both games, some NPC's move and some don't."   Is this the sum of your point?  Did I or anyone else here ever think all of the NPCs in GW2 were 100% interactive and autonomous?  Nope.  Apparently you did though.

Now, if you want to compare the two game worlds and put all the cards on the table, let me know.  Most of the arguments I posted and read against TOR's world included the lifeless NPCs, but wasn't limited to that.  There are countless posts and threads all over the internet about how boring the whole game world was, NPCs included.  From what we know of GW2 from media reviews, this isn't the case when looked at on the whole which is what really matters.  Some day maybe all NPCs will have AI and be autonomous, but that day isn't here and ANet never claimed it was.

You can sit here and draw parallels between the NPCs of both games if you want, but that's just an intellectually dishonest jab at those who found SWTOR's world to be lacking in almost every measurable way.

What you don't seem to understand is complaints came from more than just one aspect, there were those who complained about overall ambience, and those who complained about NPC ambience (statues). I'm talking about the latter, you can make your own thread if you want to talk about the former, because I have no argument against that, as I too agree on an overall level GW2 has more going on and a better city atmosphere (seemingly so anyway).

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

Originally posted by cali59

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Well, give us something else to go by then. Post a video of the lively areas, with NPC activitiy and chatter. Show us once and for all that that's simply a misconception with SWTOR... the whole static, dead-world aspect is simply taken out of context. Simple enough to prove yourself correct on this.

Here is two NPC's talking to each other, in the starter area of Nal Hutta.

Hmm seems like a conversation, it took me 2 seconds to find that with google...

Are you guys saying you can't google this yourselves?

Perhaps you don't understand how arguments work.  We don't make your case for you.  We provide GW2 evidence, you provide SWTOR evidence.

Where is the GW2 conversations?

I dont' see any posted in any of these threads.

Please provide sources, I cannot google myself. I'm too lazy.

BTW I'm planning on buying GW2, so don't try and "put me" in a category, I'm on the side of an honest debate, that doesn't attack the person it discusses the topic.

Thats my agenda, always.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by evilastro

I got a Sith Sorceror and Imperial Agent to 50, both had full Rakata raid gear and Battlemaster gear. I also got a Trooper and Jedi Knight up to 50 on the Republic side, but just played them casually.

Several NPCs? Every single hub? Haha do you exaggerate much? Sometimes if I left myself AFK long enough while getting a snack I would hear a conversation, then dead silence for another 5 minutes. Either you were confusing the companion bug for actual NPC chatter or you are just deliberately exaggerating.

If you read my previous posts, I have nothing against SWTOR, its fine for what it is. A story driven combat MMO. It just didnt have enough content to keep me interested, I have no hard feelings towards the game. But pretending that the ambiance is at an acceptable level for a persistant world in the game is just silly and counterproductive. There are hundreds of posts on the official SWTOR forums complaining about it and sticking your head in the sand about it wont resolve the issue.

 

So you spend most of your time in the Space station hub, where there is literally no NPC's talking to each other.

Ok, I already said that.

yes, EVERY quest hub I've been to, from the 1st one outside of Nal Hutta, to the Daily quest areas on Bal Morra, has NPC's talking with audiable ambient sound of them having some pointless conversation, that apparently is VITAL to game play for some people.

Oh so now I played in the wrong areas? While leveling 4 characters to 50? Thats just hilarious.

First we didnt play SWTOR, then when we point out that we did, we didnt play it right.

Theres no point debating with you, you are just being an obvious troll at this point. Anyone with a brain who has played SWTOR can tell you that the NPCs are severely lacking. The quest hubs arent 'buzzing' with activity, and unless you go AFK for long periods of time in the quest hubs you would be lucky to hear 3 conversations while leveling to max level.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Well, give us something else to go by then. Post a video of the lively areas, with NPC activitiy and chatter. Show us once and for all that that's simply a misconception with SWTOR... the whole static, dead-world aspect is simply taken out of context. Simple enough to prove yourself correct on this.

Here is two NPC's talking to each other, in the starter area of Nal Hutta.

Hmm seems like a conversation, it took me 2 seconds to find that with google...

Are you guys saying you can't google this yourselves?

Heh... that was hilarious! The little guy is in a short loop, the big guy just standing there with sound being played over it not even remotely synched to the characters. Amazing all they can say without moving their lips at all. Well... the big guy was easy... Yep. No.

Ah, so you don't like the quality of the content, but you must admit, its there.

And again, if you cannot be bothered to do your own googling, then perhaps you shouldn't bother commenting either :-D

Yes, you found one, on a 22 second loop. Grats. The Divinities Reach tour beat that in the first 22 seconds just randomly.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

The difference i'm seeing between the too is night and day. 

In SWTOR they have children skipping, people walking having conversations that you can actually hear and understand that aren't just random they are either clues about events in the area or they are bits of lore to flesh out the world, there is ambient noises all around, you can interact with almost all of the npcs (i haven't personally seen them all be clicked on 100%) it FEELS alive.

When i played GW2 it felt like a backdrop. A painting that didn't have life but was imitating it.

 see what i did there?  Yep I can make claims that aren't backed up with any evidence too!

Edit: If you think people quit because NPC's weren't talking or skipping, you are sadly very mistaken.

WE WANT CONTENT!  Not meaningless idle chatter, thats already in the game.

Actually no there were pleanty of complaints about the lack of ambience from the RP and pve crowd just because you didn't want to include those types of players in this community doesn't make their claims any less valid nor does it make their complaints any less true. Content includes a living breathing world to the best of the programming and technology available just because you don't care about that part of a game doesn't matter it's everyone's experience with a game that gives it an overall good or bad feel.

Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, you found one, on a 22 second loop. Grats. The Divinities Reach tour beat that in the first 22 seconds just randomly.

Yeah, I found one in .2 seconds of searching.

It was SOO HARD because of how rare NPC conversations are in the game.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

Rift. nuff said

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by cali59

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Well, give us something else to go by then. Post a video of the lively areas, with NPC activitiy and chatter. Show us once and for all that that's simply a misconception with SWTOR... the whole static, dead-world aspect is simply taken out of context. Simple enough to prove yourself correct on this.

Here is two NPC's talking to each other, in the starter area of Nal Hutta.

Hmm seems like a conversation, it took me 2 seconds to find that with google...

Are you guys saying you can't google this yourselves?

Perhaps you don't understand how arguments work.  We don't make your case for you.  We provide GW2 evidence, you provide SWTOR evidence.

Where is the GW2 conversations?

I dont' see any posted in any of these threads.

Please provide sources, I cannot google myself. I'm too lazy.

BTW I'm planning on buying GW2, so don't try and "put me" in a category, I'm on the side of an honest debate, that doesn't attack the person it discusses the topic.

Thats my agenda, always.

The Divinities Reach tour... close your eyes and listen. The conversations, the background noise, it's all in there. Dogs barking, kids laughing. People chatting. Beggars asking for a few coins, a lady trying to make a living. Just listen. You have the link already.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-rift-news/patch-notes/

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

The difference i'm seeing between the too is night and day. 

In SWTOR they have children skipping, people walking having conversations that you can actually hear and understand that aren't just random they are either clues about events in the area or they are bits of lore to flesh out the world, there is ambient noises all around, you can interact with almost all of the npcs (i haven't personally seen them all be clicked on 100%) it FEELS alive.

When i played GW2 it felt like a backdrop. A painting that didn't have life but was imitating it.

 see what i did there?  Yep I can make claims that aren't backed up with any evidence too!

Edit: If you think people quit because NPC's weren't talking or skipping, you are sadly very mistaken.

WE WANT CONTENT!  Not meaningless idle chatter, thats already in the game.

Actually no there were pleanty of complaints about the lack of ambience from the RP and pve crowd just because you didn't want to include those types of players in this community doesn't make their claims any less valid nor does it make their complaints any less true. Content includes a living breathing world to the best of the programming and technology available just because you don't care about that part of a game doesn't matter it's everyone's experience with a game that gives it an overall good or bad feel.

Yep, you are right, I didn't want to include RPers or PVEers, except I am one.

Stop making personal attacks and judgements on posters, debate the topic, not the person.  Please follow forum rules, thank  you.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Well, give us something else to go by then. Post a video of the lively areas, with NPC activitiy and chatter. Show us once and for all that that's simply a misconception with SWTOR... the whole static, dead-world aspect is simply taken out of context. Simple enough to prove yourself correct on this.

Here is two NPC's talking to each other, in the starter area of Nal Hutta.

Hmm seems like a conversation, it took me 2 seconds to find that with google...

Are you guys saying you can't google this yourselves?

Heh... that was hilarious! The little guy is in a short loop, the big guy just standing there with sound being played over it not even remotely synched to the characters. Amazing all they can say without moving their lips at all. Well... the big guy was easy... Yep. No.

Ah, so you don't like the quality of the content, but you must admit, its there.

And again, if you cannot be bothered to do your own googling, then perhaps you shouldn't bother commenting either :-D

Yes, you found one, on a 22 second loop. Grats. The Divinities Reach tour beat that in the first 22 seconds just randomly.

Originally posted by Laughing-man 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

I think it would make more sense, since you made the statement, to provide proof of what you stated.

Also, does that mean that SWTOR required the most fixes?

I also have to wonder what your statement has to do with the topic or even what it has to do with the post you quoted. Since we have no clue about how much content or patches ArenaNet is going to put out post launch (not to mention whether or not they will need them), there is no way of comparing the two games when it comes to post launch content/patches.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Well, give us something else to go by then. Post a video of the lively areas, with NPC activitiy and chatter. Show us once and for all that that's simply a misconception with SWTOR... the whole static, dead-world aspect is simply taken out of context. Simple enough to prove yourself correct on this.

Here is two NPC's talking to each other, in the starter area of Nal Hutta.

Hmm seems like a conversation, it took me 2 seconds to find that with google...

Are you guys saying you can't google this yourselves?

Funny how i found this just as fast. There are five total videos showing the lack of ambience. I experienced this both here in the starter areas AND in the major cities i went to on the max level toons. I suppose you are going to tell me that this guy's evidence has been tampered with in some way because that's usually the next argument by people who can't handle the truth.

OP posted that in HIS favor, then you post it as an arguement against?

um... have you been reading this thread?

yep and i've already made a post to answer his concerns with evidence. did you even read the entire thread? yeah didn't think so. k.thx.bye

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by colddog04

I can tell this thread is just going to end up making SWTOR look really bad in the "lively areas" department instead of detracting from what Guild Wars 2 was able to accomplish in the same department.

 

I keep looking at various videos and it does seem like Arena Net spent a lot more time fleshing out the city ambiance, NPC movement, NPC interaction and just a general city feel.

Exactly since Anet is making a non subscription model, they have to remain more honest in their approach to the gameplay and address problems more quickly. I think with their Devs experience in Blizzard and their experience with mmo's in general this being their second game and all they've actually learned from gaming history on what not to do. We can expect honestly a great experience.

 

SWTOR had the fastest patches and fixes, and the most content added the fastest out of any MMO ever.

If this isn't true, please prove me wrong.

 

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-rift-news/patch-notes/

VS THIS

3 months (SWTOR)

Vs a year and two months (RIFT)

Seems about the same pace, if not faster.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, you found one, on a 22 second loop. Grats. The Divinities Reach tour beat that in the first 22 seconds just randomly.

Yeah, I found one in .2 seconds of searching.

It was SOO HARD because of how rare NPC conversations are in the game.

 

Rather than target one chat, find me a vid where they walk around the city and you hear the chatter around you like the Divinities Reach one does. I did look. YouTubed SWTOR Cities. Watched the walkthroughs of a few. Every one... quiet, dead. Almost... sterile? Yeah... sterile. Apparently your mastery of the Googles is greater than this young padawan, so help me Laughing Man, you're my only hope.