Originally posted by Loke666

 

How would a good text for a farmer to tell you to kill 10 rats look?

A well written description of the cutscene in Skyrim that ask you to kill all the bandits in a cave?

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Loke666

How would a good text for a farmer to tell you to kill 10 rats look?

A well written description of the cutscene in Skyrim that ask you to kill all the bandits in a cave?

In a none instanced MMO that usually just would be you killing some of the bandits and leaving the rest.

It is a lot harder to write things for a MMO than a singleplayer game unless you instance up the entire game and frankly do that take away the massive part leaving a single player game for you.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Loke666

How would a good text for a farmer to tell you to kill 10 rats look?

A well written description of the cutscene in Skyrim that ask you to kill all the bandits in a cave?

In a none instanced MMO that usually just would be you killing some of the bandits and leaving the rest.

It is a lot harder to write things for a MMO than a singleplayer game unless you instance up the entire game and frankly do that take away the massive part leaving a single player game for you.

Do a multi-player version of that (instanced group quests), or use phasing. The massive part is not conducive to adventure anyway. Small group content is the best.

Originally posted by RefMinor
More background lore, less story, more world.

Agreed.

Players who build a virtual world that evolves don't need a story. The world IS the story. Wher the players have written their own lore by the way they have played their game over time. This is very difficult to achieve in a Theme Park since the whole premise of a TP is "Hey! come play in our world"

The whole concept of "Quest" has been diminished to the point where current games are simply removing the entire concept and embedding them into the game invisible to the user.

But that's what you get when you take what amounts to an errand and label it as a "quest"

Anarchy Online had some of the best quest chains. They were long and difficult and actually done well. And when you were finsihed, it had some real meaning to your game.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by RefMinor
More background lore, less story, more world.

Agreed.

Players who build a virtual world that evolves don't need a story. The world IS the story. Wher the players have written their own lore by the way they have played their game over time. This is very difficult to achieve in a Theme Park since the whole premise of a TP is "Hey! come play in our world"

 

The whole concept of "Quest" has been diminished to the point where current games are simply removing the entire concept and embedding them into the game invisible to the user.

 

But that's what you get when you take what amounts to an errand and label it as a "quest"

 

Anarchy Online had some of the best quest chains. They were long and difficult and actually done well. And when you were finsihed, it had some real meaning to your game.

Not all MMOs are virtual worlds. In fact, there is an increasing trend to go the other way ,... small group content with a lobby .. like in Diablo 3 (which is a ARPG with some MMO elements).

Originally posted by eddieg50

Originally posted by blognorg

I think people, like myself, tend to glaze over the text in MMOs because they are a different kind of game. Let me explain. Most single-player games focus on story and gameplay. MMORPGs are very mechanical. By that, I mean that numbers rule the day. The reason why we go out and kill ten boars isn't for the story, it's to get exp and money for better gear... i.e. rewards. Whereas a single-player RPG, you're killing the ten boars to progress the story. Keep in mind that I'm speaking generally here, and by ten boars, I'm referring to any random quest. Many games try to make an MMO based around a story, but it rubs many the wrong way. Like many, I think that lore is great in an MMO. It establishes atmosphere, and gives depth and purpose to the world. However, making it too much all about your character causes a disconnect, because you know that it's not... it's a massively multilpayer game in a wolrd that doesn't change based on your actions. There's no real end; the "end" in MMOs is guaged on how big your epeen is. It's a victory for mechanics, not plot, or characters, or anything else. That's why I think stories in MMOs never quite set right.

   thats why I like swtor

Admittedly, I've been an advocate against SW:TOR, but I'm not going to go into all of my reasoning now. However, I have no porblem with the people whom enjoy it. I'm glad that there is a variety of games to choose from... more or less. Hopefully, the trend to follow the WoW/EQ formula will die out soon. Personally, I've never really been able to get into most MMO chracter stories, though I haven't really enjoyed a single-player game's story recently, either. I would choose a good linear story over a myrid of shallow "choices" in a game any day. That's just me, though.

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

I'd imagine that creating all these quests with books worth of quest text (paragraph after paragraph of quest text eventually turns into an enormous amount of written work) would be very expensive, very time consuming, and to be honest: very very niche.

The amount of people who actually read the quest text are niche, almost as much so IMO as those who roleplay walk, desire FFA PvP, or seek a permadeath solution. Yet these writers take time, money, and most of all a significant portion of patching, updates, and expansion content.

 

If you do not know what I am talking about or who, you may be unaware of how many people play games like Mass Effect and literally skip through the entire storyline and dialogue just to beat the game...(if you don't know, Mass Effect is a heavily dialogue, story-driven game). Yet this game has voice acting and action in the scenes, making it far easier for the ADHD generation to handle. Now imagine those who actually read quest text...wow.

Even I, a lover of storylines and roleplaying, do not read the majority of quest text (or simply browse through it, often as a requirement to make the quest easier). Simply sad, very very sad.

Try going to any sort of article, such as one I recently read on AOL NEWS which stated "Catholic Priests help to prevent sexual abuse of minors." and there are, no kidding, scores of comments saying something similar to "Wow yet another Article of Catholic Priests molesting innocent kids. This needs to stop!" with comprehension failure with the TITLE itself, let alone the lengthy article painting the priests as GOOD people, not bad. ANother article the same week with two neighbors and the neighbor shot the other man when the man confronted him over the shooter's dog pooping on his lawn. Comments galore failing to comprehend that the dog owner WAS the shooter, and that the man pictured in the article was the murder victim NOT the criminal. Simply amazing, but obviously reading is niche in our society.

Want to mass market to as many people as possible? Get rid of all reading, and the money should flow in much faster.

 

Furthermore, forums across the internet-- plenty of evidence in this forum and the next, clearly shows that a large amount of people simply cannot read. Whether they fail to read or comprehend simple concepts because of laziness, trolling, or outright stupidity: they simply cannot read. Just now there are several threads with people who comment showing clear signs that didn't even read or comprehend past the very first line. A thread about a gay man roleplaying his avatar, in the second sentence of the thread, and someone even responded assuming he was straight and the thread were about a straight man embarassed by a female avatar turning out to be male.

Any argument on the internet seems to have a large majority of people (typically lurkers commenting and then vanishing, not the actual debaters) who seem to be unable to read. I am not even talking about the people who argue back and forth failing to empathize with one another. No, I am talking of the numerous lurkers who post a single short paragraph revealing a complete failure to understand the simple concepts the topic provides to discuss.

 

It is actually the NORM in MMORPG's for people to skip all quest text, no matter how lengthy or in depth the text gets. In fact, they tend to skip it ESPECIALLY when it is too lengthy. Yet quest text is still written.

Why even have quest text if people can't read? Do they really require the illusion of roleplaying to help prevent themselves from coming to terms with the reality that their game is shallow and their progression meaningless? How many gamers would cheer to see a developer say, "We fired 5 of our story writers and hired 3 new PvP developers to give an additional Battleground every major update!" The crowds would cheer in glory.

That would be on you. And it would also be on the people that don't read quest text... In the grand scheme of things I don't think it matters too much. I personally could care less if Gamer X reads the quest text or not. It doesn't affect my playtime in anyway. 

As far as letting developers go because they don't want quest text? I would prefer the text over another PvP map anyday.

Originally posted by Loke666

How would a good text for a farmer to tell you to kill 10 rats look?

If it was well-written, it wouldn't be rats.  Much like how I'm 99% sure that there's not a single "kill 10 rats" quest in WOW, however there are many better-written quests about killing various types of enemies for better-justified reasons.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Loke666

How would a good text for a farmer to tell you to kill 10 rats look?

If it was well-written, it wouldn't be rats.  Much like how I'm 99% sure that there's not a single "kill 10 rats" quest in WOW, however there are many better-written quests about killing various types of enemies for better-justified reasons.

A rat by any other name ...

My problem with quest text is that most quest-based MMOs are written like a glorified comic book.  You aren't actually a participant in the story, you are just a passive consumer of story - albiet with a little more effort required to turn the pages.

I read the quest text when it is relevent, when it actually influences whether or not I accept the quest, when I want to learn the consequences of succeeding or failing.  If there are no consequences and no real choice since it's just the next stop of the ride, then the quest text is really no different than the texture map of the rat's fur - something I'd probably notice if it was really badly done, but otherwise not something I'm going to give much conscious attention.

Personally, I read stories to visit worlds, not visit worlds to read a story.

Wasn't there a time where there were no quests or very little? Where you had to grind for hours?

Yeah, those were so popular! /sarcasm

I can't for the life of me see why people do not like quests/stories.

Originally posted by jpnz

Wasn't there a time where there were no quests or very little? Where you had to grind for hours?

Yeah, those were so popular! /sarcasm

I can't for the life of me see why people do not like quests/stories.

I prefered the social group leveling aspect even if it took "hours". But it sure beats the rage enducing grind through this dungeon 50x so you can get a drop or enough tokens to move onto the next tier so you can grind through it 50x to get enough tokens for the next tier, every time the npc's cursing that you stopped them each and every time you grind through them (And they aren't even really dungeons, they are "gauntlets" as in linear hallways with a start and an end that have no exploration aspect to them and the enemies stand in static spots waiting for you)

I hope you weren't implying that the current method didn't have a massive grind aspect to it. at least with the social group aspect you talked to people who weren't in rush grind mode all the time like the current "dungeon run" aspect, and when interrupted or delayed begin to rage (which is often the only communication you get from them)

Originally posted by Khrymson

 

So those of us that do read the text can answer the lazy fools in general chat later on. 

ROFLMAO. Oh so true.

Originally posted by jpnz

Wasn't there a time where there were no quests or very little? Where you had to grind for hours?

Yeah, those were so popular! /sarcasm

I can't for the life of me see why people do not like quests/stories.

The first few times it's fun.  After the 953,392,186,009,931 time it gets a little boring and repetitive.  It doesn't even seem like they're trying anymore.

Originally posted by RefMinor
More background lore, less story, more world.

I totally agree with that to. When I start playing, I want to create my story. And curently I can only do that in "dungeons" and "raiding" :)

I prefer voice acting. If  I see a lot of text, I just skip it. A book is far better medium for that.

Originally posted by Emrendil

I prefer voice acting. If  I see a lot of text, I just skip it. A book is far better medium for that.

Moving from written words to spoken/animated words doesn't change that it's still an inanimate world behind all the detailed visual simulations.  

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Emrendil

I prefer voice acting. If  I see a lot of text, I just skip it. A book is far better medium for that.

Moving from written words to spoken/animated words doesn't change that it's still an inanimate world behind all the detailed visual simulations.  

Book is a book, computer game is a computer game. Two diffent mediums :)

Originally posted by Emrendil

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Emrendil

I prefer voice acting. If  I see a lot of text, I just skip it. A book is far better medium for that.

Moving from written words to spoken/animated words doesn't change that it's still an inanimate world behind all the detailed visual simulations.  

Book is a book, computer game is a computer game. Two diffent mediums :)

And neither of them is a movie. Did you know early computer games, especially RPGs, were written entirely in text?

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Emrendil

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Emrendil

I prefer voice acting. If  I see a lot of text, I just skip it. A book is far better medium for that.

Moving from written words to spoken/animated words doesn't change that it's still an inanimate world behind all the detailed visual simulations.  

Book is a book, computer game is a computer game. Two diffent mediums :)

And neither of them is a movie. Did you know early computer games, especially RPGs, were written entirely in text?

True, but the computers back then were far less powerfull. It's sad to still read "wall of text" in 2012 with gigabytes of ram and multicore processors :)