Originally posted by historybuff4

I've almost quit the game.  At the peak times only 6 people on a planet or on the fleet on my server I just wanted to be able to us the features  they have now but can't.

It's like they think they will take more of a PR hit by merging servers now over how many subs they are losing solely because people are stuck on dead servers and don't want to regrind if they roll to more populated ones.

Originally posted by ignore_me

 

1) So your assertion is that a very insignificant minority uses the forums, and are thus over-represented as if they are important. I'll agree that my original statement (in red) was sarcastic, but it was a reaction to this "Populist" argument concerning community opinions on games. This is a sample of a population, which for all intensive purposes includes people who tried SWG, played it short term, played it long term, heard about it, pretend they played it, etc. You can't realistically quantify that. The variation means that only a very loose approximation can be applied. I keep seeing this argument pop up that the game was so small that these little people with their little argument should stop opposing the big harmonious world of game production and design. Be a good citizen and shut up SWG fans.

2) It's true that only people who are active about an issue tend to participate in polling activities, but it's odd the way no one gets on and says, "I like the game, it's good." Dissenting posts are attacked, which means that on the pro side of the argument, you only write because your pissed that someone disagrees with you.

3) You equate dissenting opinion with disruption. I started this thread not you. The "I love SWTOR thread" must be in here somewhere, and I'm sure that there are people in there "disrupting it" by saying they don't tlike the game. But by your definition you just disrupted this thread with immature behavior.

 

Give me a break.

I have made several threads talking about things pertaining to game, only to watch them get bumped for the latest bitch session. I post in threads in favor of game. When you guys carry on about "online SP RPG", I am thinking "whatever ya deem it, it fits my playstyle".

Unless your thread is a game, it doesnt conflict with my stance. This is the TOR forum. If you dont like it, no problem, write up your ideas/opinions, and move the fuck on. That is my opinion of the situation. Game forums should be for discussion of what the game entails, future plans, and reasonable ways to adjust in game mechanics. Bitching about what the game isnt, nor ever will be, is simply misery hoping for company.

This thread was about what transpires on the O forums. I gave my opinion on what is transpiring. If you dont like it, then it sucks to be you.  Cause just as you are technically allowed to carry on about this game, I am allowed to give my opinion as well.

So to bring it back to your OP....the O forums are a reflection of the TOR forums here. There are a number of former SWG players that cant let the topic go. This is besides several PVP folks that BW should of never thought to invite to the party, in the first place, if they werent going to get a seat at the table. The PVP stuff is fully on BW.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by ignore_me

 

1) So your assertion is that a very insignificant minority uses the forums, and are thus over-represented as if they are important. I'll agree that my original statement (in red) was sarcastic, but it was a reaction to this "Populist" argument concerning community opinions on games. This is a sample of a population, which for all intensive purposes includes people who tried SWG, played it short term, played it long term, heard about it, pretend they played it, etc. You can't realistically quantify that. The variation means that only a very loose approximation can be applied. I keep seeing this argument pop up that the game was so small that these little people with their little argument should stop opposing the big harmonious world of game production and design. Be a good citizen and shut up SWG fans.

2) It's true that only people who are active about an issue tend to participate in polling activities, but it's odd the way no one gets on and says, "I like the game, it's good." Dissenting posts are attacked, which means that on the pro side of the argument, you only write because your pissed that someone disagrees with you.

3) You equate dissenting opinion with disruption. I started this thread not you. The "I love SWTOR thread" must be in here somewhere, and I'm sure that there are people in there "disrupting it" by saying they don't tlike the game. But by your definition you just disrupted this thread with immature behavior.

 

Give me a break.

 

I have made several threads talking about things pertaining to game, only to watch them get bumped for the latest bitch session. I post in threads in favor of game. When you guys carry on about "online SP RPG", I am thinking "whatever ya deem it, it fits my playstyle".

 

Unless your thread is a game, it doesnt conflict with my stance. This is the TOR forum. If you dont like it, no problem, write up your ideas/opinions, and move the fuck on. That is my opinion of the situation. Game forums should be for discussion of what the game entails, future plans, and reasonable ways to adjust in game mechanics. Bitching about what I think the game isnt, nor ever will be, is simply misery hoping for company.

 

This thread was about what transpires on the O forums. I gave my opinion on what is transpiring. If you dont like it, then it sucks to be you.  Cause just as you are technically allowed to carry on about this game, I am allowed to give my opinion as well.

 

So to bring it back to your OP....the O forums are a reflection of the TOR forums here. There are a number of former SWG players that cant let the topic go. This is besides several PVP folks that BW should of never thought to invite to the party, in the first place, if they werent going to get a seat at the table. The PVP stuff is fully on BW.

I clarified that (added the red part), becasue that's your point; if people have other opinions than your, they sucks.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by ignore_me

 

1) So your assertion is that a very insignificant minority uses the forums, and are thus over-represented as if they are important. I'll agree that my original statement (in red) was sarcastic, but it was a reaction to this "Populist" argument concerning community opinions on games. This is a sample of a population, which for all intensive purposes includes people who tried SWG, played it short term, played it long term, heard about it, pretend they played it, etc. You can't realistically quantify that. The variation means that only a very loose approximation can be applied. I keep seeing this argument pop up that the game was so small that these little people with their little argument should stop opposing the big harmonious world of game production and design. Be a good citizen and shut up SWG fans.

2) It's true that only people who are active about an issue tend to participate in polling activities, but it's odd the way no one gets on and says, "I like the game, it's good." Dissenting posts are attacked, which means that on the pro side of the argument, you only write because your pissed that someone disagrees with you.

3) You equate dissenting opinion with disruption. I started this thread not you. The "I love SWTOR thread" must be in here somewhere, and I'm sure that there are people in there "disrupting it" by saying they don't tlike the game. But by your definition you just disrupted this thread with immature behavior.

 

Give me a break.

 

I have made several threads talking about things pertaining to game, only to watch them get bumped for the latest bitch session. I post in threads in favor of game. When you guys carry on about "online SP RPG", I am thinking "whatever ya deem it, it fits my playstyle".

 

Unless your thread is a game, it doesnt conflict with my stance. This is the TOR forum. If you dont like it, no problem, write up your ideas/opinions, and move the fuck on. That is my opinion of the situation. Game forums should be for discussion of what the game entails, future plans, and reasonable ways to adjust in game mechanics. Bitching about what the game isnt, nor ever will be, is simply misery hoping for company.

 

This thread was about what transpires on the O forums. I gave my opinion on what is transpiring. If you dont like it, then it sucks to be you.  Cause just as you are technically allowed to carry on about this game, I am allowed to give my opinion as well.

 

So to bring it back to your OP....the O forums are a reflection of the TOR forums here. There are a number of former SWG players that cant let the topic go. This is besides several PVP folks that BW should of never thought to invite to the party, in the first place, if they werent going to get a seat at the table. The PVP stuff is fully on BW.

I'm giving my opinion about why you are wrong.

And thanks for your concern about my mood, but I'm not depressed.

As for the OP, people continue to ask for SWG features on the official SWTOR forums in both general discussion + suggestion box. Let's start a conspiracy theory about who it is.

a) Blizzard Industrial Spies

b) the Chinese

c) Out of Work Grief Counselors

d) The International Brotherhood of Evil Sandbox Autocrats

Or maybe there are people that actually want to see this stuff, and don't think it will hurt anyone to have it in the game.

Originally posted by Sandbox

 

To dismiss peoples opinions with the “it’s a SWG vet”-excuse is not creative if you want to seriously contribute to the discussion.

It’s in pair with people dismissing new games as wow-clones, imo.

 When they carry on about what TOR isnt, nor was ever intended to be, then yeah, their opinion isnt worth much to me. It would be no different than me going into EVE's forum, and telling them how that game should play. Then proceeding to repeat that message 5 gazillion times, with another 32.5 posts per month describing how dumb folks are for enjoying it. 

Some things of course are universal, such as having day/night cycles along with NPCs that act accordingly.  That can fit in a themepark as well as a sandbox. I would enjoy them adding it. That is what I would deem a reasonable request.

Uncle Owen being the loot focus,  world wide FFA PVP, reserving the game space for planting houses/cities, or a slew of other topics have no place here. That is sandbox play, and this game was never intended to be one. The zones get bigger as you progress, and there are folks that bitch about it not being big enough. I mean cmon.Themeparks aren't designed to be endless parking lots. If they cut out all the PVE content, I am sure they could make huge empty worlds as well. Which is why there are different sub genres of MMOs, and it is up to the person to pick the game that suites them....not try to remake the ones that dont.

So excuse me if the disdain shines through.  Sometimes I think I should take part in "forum PVP", and simply spend my time in other game forums running them down. Then I remember I havent been a teenager in nearly 25 yrs,  and there is no way I am going to lower myself to that behaviour. When I visit other game forums, I am going to continue to be respectful towards that game, and the folks that are enjoying themselves playing it currently.  If I do say something negative, it isnt going to be a continual thing for weeks, let alone months, or in some cases years on end.

Anywho the topic is about what is transpiring on the O forums, and like I have stated, it is simply a reflection of what is happening here. Some folks refuse to move on.

This is my last comment on the topic. Feel free to PM me if you wish to continue this discussion.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by ignore_me

The assumption here is that the content would be mutually exclusive. I don't think it's impossible for the Sandpark option to exist and be inclusive for Theme Park/CORPG fans.

Even without mutual exclusion, you're talking about spending the x finite dev hours on Feature A (small audience) when it could be spent on Feature B (large audience.)

It's a bad idea even if we agree it's not mutually exclusive.

I mean I'm not jumping to the conclusion that every single sandbox idea is immediately bad and doesn't make sense for ToR, but I imagine a lot of them fit that category.

The only problem with your theory is you pve guys are not the majority atm ,  the pvp players that wanted swg 2.0 were as many as you pve players like it or not that is fact .  So stop talking like your the majority your not anymore most people on swtor forums are asking for more sandbox elements .

Originally posted by Darklighter1

Let me first state that I was a DIEHARD SWG player....I'd still be playing pre-NGE if they had well enough alone....

 

But do you SERIOUSLY think they would make SWTOR anything like SWG.....now known as one of the biggest FAILURES of MMO history???  REALLY?

 

You fools should stick of PLAYING video games and leave MAKING them to people with a clue.

The 'people with a clue' came up witjh SWTOR.

Now do you get it?

 

The only problem with your theory is you pve guys are not the majority atm ,  the pvp players that wanted swg 2.0 were as many as you pve players like it or not that is fact .  So stop talking like your the majority your not anymore most people on swtor forums are asking for more sandbox elements .

There is also the concept that at any given time the consumers are made up of players who are capable of enjoying more than one style of play, and will cycle through activities in a dynamic fashion. Players polled today might be in a different mood next week, and therefore the characteristic of play might be harder to quantify. This would invalidate the idea of development simply for the perceived larger audience, because the static model might prove too fragile. Instead a more broad-based approach would catch the outlier this week that becomes the statistically significant group next week. And into the next period of time, when the shift on a multi-dimensional level might occur again (% doing quests, % raiding, % soloing, %PvP, etc.)

The argument is that the production line is already set up for content A, so only content A should be produced, because that's what we set it up to produce.

Introduce demand for content B

No sorry we already have it set up for content A.

Can we have both A and B ?

No because we set it up for A, and we really don't want to spend the time or money on B.

Well customers are asking for it.

No they are not asking for B.

Huh?

We only make A, B is too hard to produce (engine), and what everyone wants is really more A.

So ... it's my imagination that there are a lot of posts asking for B?

It's not your imagination, but everyone just wants A because it makes money.

Wouldn't A + B make money too?

No because we like A

Originally posted by minime2

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by ignore_me

The assumption here is that the content would be mutually exclusive. I don't think it's impossible for the Sandpark option to exist and be inclusive for Theme Park/CORPG fans.

Even without mutual exclusion, you're talking about spending the x finite dev hours on Feature A (small audience) when it could be spent on Feature B (large audience.)

It's a bad idea even if we agree it's not mutually exclusive.

I mean I'm not jumping to the conclusion that every single sandbox idea is immediately bad and doesn't make sense for ToR, but I imagine a lot of them fit that category.

The only problem with your theory is you pve guys are not the majority atm ,  the pvp players that wanted swg 2.0 were as many as you pve players like it or not that is fact .  So stop talking like your the majority your not anymore most people on swtor forums are asking for more sandbox elements .

Ack I was done with this thread buuuuuuuuut.......

Bullshit, bullshit, more bullshit, and some bullshit icing. Did I mention bullshit?

North American TOR servers http://www.swtor.com/server-status 

PVE servers 72 by my count

PVP servers 41 by my count

PVE RP servers 9 by my count

PVP RP servers 3 by my count.

PVE could probably use 15 or so servers merged, and PVP could probably use some as well.  55 PVE, and 35 PVP(if not less) sounds about right, and it sure doent favor PVP. Throw in the RP servers, and it is even more skewed.

Next time you wanna pull stuff out of your ass, you should put a little effort into it.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by dubyahite
Actualy, I just followed you link tothe official forums and looked through about 15 pages of threads.

I only saw ONE "SWG" feature requested and it was housing, which isn't just a SWG feature.

I saw plenty of threads askin for improvements to existing systems. I don't see this outcry for SWG 2 that you claim exists.


Nice try.

The threads move down with frequency of posts my man. You would have to do some reading because threads tend to wander, but the features are there in the posts. I spend time reading them so I didn't make the OP until I had seen it quite a bit. The following is a list off the top of my head:

Day/Night cycle

Player Housing

Multi Person speeders

Open Space

Open Worlds

Random Mobs

In Depth Crafting (SWG was mentioned several times by posters)

Entertainment Buffs

Multi World PvP ala GCW

etc.

Going to re-post this as the number of suggestions that fit into parameters of the OP are still happening on official forums. The titles are sometimes unclear on the posts (no day/night cycle, more to do in cantinas, creature mounts) but the suggestions are not hard to find.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by minime2

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by ignore_me

The assumption here is that the content would be mutually exclusive. I don't think it's impossible for the Sandpark option to exist and be inclusive for Theme Park/CORPG fans.

Even without mutual exclusion, you're talking about spending the x finite dev hours on Feature A (small audience) when it could be spent on Feature B (large audience.)

It's a bad idea even if we agree it's not mutually exclusive.

I mean I'm not jumping to the conclusion that every single sandbox idea is immediately bad and doesn't make sense for ToR, but I imagine a lot of them fit that category.

The only problem with your theory is you pve guys are not the majority atm ,  the pvp players that wanted swg 2.0 were as many as you pve players like it or not that is fact .  So stop talking like your the majority your not anymore most people on swtor forums are asking for more sandbox elements .

Ack I was done with this thread buuuuuuuuut.......

 

Bullshit, bullshit, more bullshit, and some bullshit icing. Did I mention bullshit?

 

North American TOR servers http://www.swtor.com/server-status 

PVE servers 72 by my count

PVP servers 41 by my count

PVE RP servers 9 by my count

PVP RP servers 3 by my count.

 

PVE could probably use 15 or so servers merged, and PVP could probably use some as well.  55 PVE, and 35 PVP(if not less) sounds about right, and it sure doent favor PVP. Throw in the RP servers, and it is even more skewed.

 

Next time you wanna pull stuff out of your ass, you should put a little effort into it.

Not that I give a shit one way or the other; but, using the link you posted (at 5:35 PM EST) -

     The PvE servers-  All but one is light, with the one exception being Standard

     The PvP servers- All but one is Standard, with the one exception being Heavy

     The RP-PvE servers -  All light

     The RP-PvP servers - All but one light, the one exception is standard

Now, this information could mean a lot or it could mean bupkis.  Considering I have no clue on what the potential world populations are or what metric they use to determine Light/Standard/Heavy, this could well mean that at the end of the day, the population is 50/50 on PvE/PvP.  But, in most games I've played with that have PvP, the smaller population tends to be more vocal.

Originally posted by Storman1977
(snip)

And now, not five minutes after posting-

Half the PvE are Standard with the other half light

A little less than half the PvP are light with the other half Standard and now two at heavy

And no change on the RP servers

Originally posted by Storman1977

Originally posted by Storman1977
(snip)

And now, not five minutes after posting-

Half the PvE are Standard with the other half light

A little less than half the PvP are light with the other half Standard and now two at heavy

And no change on the RP servers

Which supports what I said about closing 15 PVE servers, and 6 PVP(or more)

Right now at 8:46 PM EST all servers are standard except

20 PVE servers light, and 3 are heavy

7 PVP are light, with 1 full

Which also backs up what I stated. PVP servers are NOT the most played. The poster I was originally replying to was claiming as fact.

It took WoW 8 years and 3 expansions to even thinking of stepping on the brake, and going into another direction. Aka, MoP will be at least, a bit, "different". But The real "crazy" stuff and "experimenting" with features happens only when they got nothing more to lose.

But there is hope, it will likely happen faster with SWTOR.

Originally posted by BrokenSpoon

Firstly they need to break away from EA, their bloody poison.. Secondly they need to do a FFXIV.. propose a 2.0 patch and start development to a new more snazzy SWG/EVE build.. Real space navigation/combat + the lot! 

I think it's pretty cheap to blame the publisher in these situations. The publisher didn't create the game, the developer did. EA tossed all kinds of money at Bioware, gave them more man power, gave them new studios, etc.. It's up to Bioware to put those resources to good use. Bioware is still run by the same people who started it, they haven't left, these guys were put in control of more than just Bioware, they're also running the entire MMO division at EA. They're the John Smedlys of this operation. Blaming EA is like blaming Sony (corp) for SWG.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by BrokenSpoon

Firstly they need to break away from EA, their bloody poison.. Secondly they need to do a FFXIV.. propose a 2.0 patch and start development to a new more snazzy SWG/EVE build.. Real space navigation/combat + the lot! 

I think it's pretty cheap to blame the publisher in these situations. The publisher didn't create the game, the developer did. EA tossed all kinds of money at Bioware, gave them more man power, gave them new studios, etc.. It's up to Bioware to put those resources to good use. Bioware is still run by the same people who started it, they haven't left, these guys were put in control of more than just Bioware, they're also running the entire MMO division at EA. They're the John Smedlys of this operation. Blaming EA is like blaming Sony (corp) for SWG.

Adding John Smedly's name to this isn't helping LOL. I got nauseous when I read that. I don't think EA is as innocent as you think. Don't think for a second their suits aren't constantly looking over everyone's shoulders or they didn't partake in the overall theme of ToR. Between EA and LA poor Bioware doesn't stand a chance even if they are trying to get it right. The two overlords simply are too incompetent and given the fact that the two biggest buzz killers in the industry are working together it's obvious how they made arguably the best IP in history the biggest laughing stock in history of gaming or at least NGEs equel which has LAs name on it too LOL.

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by BrokenSpoon

Firstly they need to break away from EA, their bloody poison.. Secondly they need to do a FFXIV.. propose a 2.0 patch and start development to a new more snazzy SWG/EVE build.. Real space navigation/combat + the lot! 

I think it's pretty cheap to blame the publisher in these situations. The publisher didn't create the game, the developer did. EA tossed all kinds of money at Bioware, gave them more man power, gave them new studios, etc.. It's up to Bioware to put those resources to good use. Bioware is still run by the same people who started it, they haven't left, these guys were put in control of more than just Bioware, they're also running the entire MMO division at EA. They're the John Smedlys of this operation. Blaming EA is like blaming Sony (corp) for SWG.

Adding John Smedly's name to this isn't helping LOL. I got nauseous when I read that. I don't think EA is as innocent as you think. Don't think for a second their suits aren't constantly looking over everyone's shoulders or they didn't partake in the overall theme of ToR. Between EA and LA poor Bioware doesn't stand a chance even if they are trying to get it right. The two overlords simply are too incompetent and given the fact that the two biggest buzz killers in the industry are working together it's obvious how they made arguably the best IP in history the biggest laughing stock in history of gaming or at least NGEs equel which has LAs name on it too LOL.

I don't know, I can't see a squad of minders being positioned like old soviet political officers. I'm sure the creative editing is done much less precisely and is based on treatments delivered as videos etc. Anyone with half a brain can hide things from oversight, you just show them what you want them to see and hide the things you don't.

It's human nature to want a boogeyman, but most of the time its just good old fashion fucking up that goes on.

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by Darklighter1

Let me first state that I was a DIEHARD SWG player....I'd still be playing pre-NGE if they had well enough alone....

 

But do you SERIOUSLY think they would make SWTOR anything like SWG.....now known as one of the biggest FAILURES of MMO history???  REALLY?

 

You fools should stick of PLAYING video games and leave MAKING them to people with a clue.

The 'people with a clue' came up witjh SWTOR.

Now do you get it?

I enjoy SW:TOR.  The game has issues, but I will play as long as I think things will improve.  Why does that bother people like you?  Why do you make a point to belittle people who enjoy a game you do not? 

Originally posted by Darklighter1

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by Darklighter1

Let me first state that I was a DIEHARD SWG player....I'd still be playing pre-NGE if they had well enough alone....

 

But do you SERIOUSLY think they would make SWTOR anything like SWG.....now known as one of the biggest FAILURES of MMO history???  REALLY?

 

You fools should stick of PLAYING video games and leave MAKING them to people with a clue.

The 'people with a clue' came up witjh SWTOR.

Now do you get it?

I enjoy SW:TOR.  The game has issues, but I will play as long as I think things will improve.  Why does that bother people like you?  Why do you make a point to belittle people who enjoy a game you do not? 

Just want to see if I can get the thread back on track a bit. I for one am happy for you that you like the game. To be honest though your first post was bellicose in tone, so I'm not sure how you can attack and then retreat into a Don't be Mean position.

The trials and death of SWG seem to be ineffective as far as keeping poeple from posting suggestions that are either straight from SWG (player bounties), or were a generic feature that SWG had as well.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Darklighter1

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by Darklighter1

Let me first state that I was a DIEHARD SWG player....I'd still be playing pre-NGE if they had well enough alone....

 

But do you SERIOUSLY think they would make SWTOR anything like SWG.....now known as one of the biggest FAILURES of MMO history???  REALLY?

 

You fools should stick of PLAYING video games and leave MAKING them to people with a clue.

The 'people with a clue' came up witjh SWTOR.

Now do you get it?

I enjoy SW:TOR.  The game has issues, but I will play as long as I think things will improve.  Why does that bother people like you?  Why do you make a point to belittle people who enjoy a game you do not? 

Just want to see if I can get the thread back on track a bit. I for one am happy for you that you like the game. To be honest though your first post was bellicose in tone, so I'm not sure how you can attack and then retreat into a Don't be Mean position.

The trials and death of SWG seem to be ineffective as far as keeping poeple from posting suggestions that are either straight from SWG (player bounties), or were a generic feature that SWG had as well.

I wasn't attacking you personally, but you are one of many that are on a mission to destroy this game.  It got old weeks ago.  SWG is gone.  Accept it....I did years ago.  Just because this game has Star Wars in the title, doesn't mean it has to be the same as SWG.  Play/like it....or don't. 

I personally can't stand Star Trek Online.  Do I go on that forum and shove that opinion down people's throats?  Nope.  What would be the point of that?  And why would someone checking that forum for game info or to talk about the game they enjoy want to read about how much I hate that game?

I focus on things I enjoy.  I ignore things I do not.  I guess I am in the "silent majority" of this community...