Originally posted by Xthos

Just say no, and make a real MMO...Put backstory in or whatever, maybe sprinkle some VO, but I say to the scrap heap with this everything be VO'd...Put that time/money in making the actual 95% of the game you play better.

 

Everything has been VO'd in the Elder Scrolls games since Oblivion. To do an ES MMO right, you would really need to continue that trend I think. That doesn't mean that everything should be linear as it is in SWTOR. The strength of the Elder Scrolls games is that you can literally head in any direction and do whatever you want to progress your character. This can still be done well with full VO.

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Originally posted by Xthos
Just say no, and make a real MMO...Put backstory in or whatever, maybe sprinkle some VO, but I say to the scrap heap with this everything be VO'd...Put that time/money in making the actual 95% of the game you play better. 

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I tend to agree - less over-production and more interesting concepts. Voice acting can be done well (speech pack for early 1990s Ultima was pretty keen), but making that the whole purpose/budget of the game is so Wing Commander III.

Who knows? As other companies have proven before, a single player game and a MMO works really different.

Let´s worry about it when we know more, anything is still possible.

The only company that will do MMO storytelling "right" is the one that will put the tools and systems in the game that allow players to make the story in the gameworld.

Developer generated narratives eventually end, as we saw in SWTOR.  None of them have the manpower to continuously create great story-driven content.  Incorporating systems in a game that allow players to make the stories, and the histories, of their game's world is self-perpetuating, and is a far more organic experience as well.  It actually helps to give meaning to a gameworld.

I used to do MMO story telling until I took that arrow in the knee.  Bethesda knows story telling. Their games may be buggy, but they sure can spin a yarn. I use Skooma so I can work harder and longer, so I can make more money, and buy more Skooma. I don't see a problem with that.

Doing MMO story telling right means not creating pre-scripted linear storyline for characters. MMO story should be limited to the meta-verse the MMO takes place in, and should be presented through story arcs and world events.

I'm sure this will not be the case by any means, but I feel like since TES has always been about sandbox RPG freedom in a single-player world, would it not be too bizarre to give a similar sandbox open world feeling to this new online game in development? Sure there's story involved in TES games but more importantly they give you a rich, developed world where you can imagine your own reasons for mass-murdering wolves, cliff racers or bandits.

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Originally posted by Rohn
The only company that will do MMO storytelling "right" is the one that will put the tools and systems in the game that allow players to make the story in the gameworld...

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That's exactly what Island Forge is all about! (See above) Thanks for this comment - we know there are creative story-oriented players out there, and it's great to hear from them!

That's exactly what Island Forge is all about! (See above) Thanks for this comment - we know there are creative story-oriented players out there, and it's great to hear from them!

Nhym your game looks awesome! And I totally agree with the players creating their own stories. The problem is, with more and more young gamers getting used to the story being told to them a lot of creativity is lost. I do think an IP as huge as Elder Scrolls could make a difference if they tried something new.... but of course that would involve trying something new.

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Originally posted by Tharlog

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That's exactly what Island Forge is all about! (See above) Thanks for this comment - we know there are creative story-oriented players out there, and it's great to hear from them!

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Nhym your game looks awesome! And I totally agree with the players creating their own stories. ...

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Thanks a lot, Tharlog! I'd love to discuss Island Forge further, but I don't want to hijack this thread. Please post to my thread in the open beta forum.

My thoughts about Bethesda:

Skyrim was bad story telling, but they did do something amazing with regards to story that has never been done before. They have shown that a massive, open world does not have to be populated with dung quests. Almost everything in Skyrim was interesting, even if it didn't weave a compelling narrative.

The have also shown (again) that having no restrictions on quests other than doing them destroys narrative and immersion. It absolutely obliterates it. In my book, allowing a player to be the leader of the thieves guild, assassins guild, werewolf-warriors guild, mage guild, bard college, single handedly winning a war, and solving every issue that has came about in every city in the country, while simulatenously (casually) saving the world, is the worst game design sin imaginable. Yet it appears to be the aspiration of every exploration based RPG (including most mmorpgs) that has ever existed.

When you allow people to do everything, you take away the ability to for them to make choices about who their character is. That is, you take away their ability to roleplay. I wish a company would take this into consideration just once. At least make an exploration game about choosing what to do, instead of when to do it.

My thoughts about mmo storytelling:

I think SW:ToR has proven definitively that having a themepark MMO that focuses on story will only provide the advantage of making quest grinds more palatable. No story can really make things revolutionary on its own, even if it wasn't full of dung quests.

However, those who are advocating for a sandbox style storytelling need to keep in mind that sandboxes are unable to provide the epic storytelling that we imagine when we make our character. For the vast majority of players in a sandbox game (exceptions being those who run powerful guilds/orgs/etc.) the game ends up being much like daily life: doing mundane work.

For good narrative to truly exist in a game, it needs to be both dynamic and epic. I've only thought of two ways to make this possible.

1. Create a competitive story-telling game. Some people have commented about Nhym's Island Forge game. This is a good start. Imagine a system where creators were limited by their own progression system on what they can create, a la Dungeon Keeper. Dungeon keepers and heroes would both level up, and the content provided by higher level dk's would be consumable by heroes, all as part of the game.
2. Create a procedurally generated story telling system. If a computer can be made to tell a cohesive story, it can do so on such a scale of grand interconnectivity that we can all have our own journeys, and naturally share those journeys with others around us. Likewise, the branchability of quests can make each of those journeys feel like one we choose, moreso than what a writer could create. Image a world where one players quest choices inadvertantly awakens a Vampire, who terrorizes a village. Several of the inhabitants of the village are NPC friends and family members of players. Now the players are brought together to hunt down the vampire. The consequences of success (or failure) could send ripples across the possible quests of many other players.

I truly believe #2 is possible, and I've been working on a bit of a light-weight, single player option myself.

yeah, i hope that get it right = no personal story at all.  if you want personal story, go to play a singleplayer game.

Since imo it would take an active person/GM to do story telling right, no bethesda or any other MMO company could never get it right. There would always be restrictions of story and what one could or couldnt do. Its not much more then figuring out what the developers want you to do to progress the story.