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Good video from Wooden Potatoes explaining why the cash shop is great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEknPR-l-is&feature=related
He highlights:
1) why gems is a gold sink, and wont cause inflation 2) why karma is in there to prevent people buying their way into greatness 3) why the game natively supports tons of boosters not related to the cash shop 4) why the game is not about creating a fair playing field for everyone 5) why nothing in the shop adds theoretical power 6) why and how players can get anything in the cash shop without using real money < even character slots and bank storage, unlike gw1
Seeing it really puts things further into perspective I think. There is no real argument against it unless you honestly believe that the point or purpose of the game is getting to lvl 80 as fast as possible, which totally defeats the purpose of what guild wars has always been about.
I was really surprised about this video. These Brits are getting good at this type of content!:)
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4/01/12 5:13:07 PM#2
That was a nice video, thanks for showing it. He pointed out eveyrthing pretty clearly, although I didn't have a bad opinion about this whole cash shop idea. I knew (trusted, if you want to read it that way) that arenanet wouldn't allow paying for win when they chose this kind of payment system. Also this video showed nice skill point. Haven't thought that you had to jump around stuff to get one) |
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4/01/12 5:16:27 PM#3
The video was done before the latest beta test which actually had the cash shop in it including the prices both in terms of gems, and real world currency so its pretty mute.
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4/01/12 6:37:39 PM#4
Good video. |
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4/01/12 6:49:23 PM#5
"I find it funny that I record this before realising about the leak which has people talking about a whole bunch of different stuff.. Guess that'll be for next time." For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson If you can't argue the point don't say anything at all. |
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Originally posted by DOGMA1138 Did you see the actual video?
Don't sweat over prices that are not set in stone yet. those are just placeholders. Getting upset over something like that, is like getting upset over the fact that the wind is blowing in the east. that was one of his main points. thats the entire reason why it was under NDA. it's not finalized. :) |
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4/02/12 7:28:05 AM#7
Originally posted by Kalfer
He's not an accountant, obviously. Because he has it completely wrong. Trading gold for gems then buying things with gems doesn't destroy gold. It moves gold from your pocket to someone else's pocket. That gold can be? destroyed in-game by using the in-game vendors. Which you could have? done yourself. Though you didn't because you bought gems. The other person will have to use that gold with an NPC to destroy it. A gold sink is where currency is permanently removed from the economy. That comes from accounts going inactive or NPC vendors. |
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Originally posted by MosesZD I don't understand your use of question marks - Are you asking yourself if what you say is right, or are you asking me? <- now I am asking you!
Yes, it removes gold between users. What he was talking about, was the fear that people had, that this would create a lot more gold. Which It won't. Gold farming is prone to happen in these games, and just like what Blizzard have done with Diablo 3, is to make themselves the middle-man, and not the gold farmers.
What happens is this: Scenario A) A player can spend real life money, give them to arenanet and get gems. This is good, because this means that ArenaNet get money and not some chinese sweatshop guys who farm everything. This is important because GW2 rewards experience/karma/gold to anyone who is just participating. It's not going to be difficult to aquire these things.
Scenario B) A player gets to lvl 80 and gets a lot of money. Though he does not want to spend real life money on more bank storage, character slots or boosts, so he takes his gold, and trades them for gems. these gems gets absorbed by cash shop or npc vendor that rewards vanity items, that makes the player look good - the end result = Player has lost both his gold AND his gems. Byt the introduction of a second currency he looses everything. There for it's a gold sink. This player will need to go aquire new gold that he can then turn into gems, and start over.
It's true that in scenario B, that another person has that gold that was used for getting gems. but that can be used in many ways. The whole point is that they introduced a system, that let both players get stuff. those that would get it through playing, and those that would get it faster, but in return fork up money for ArenaNet to further fund development of the game.
I get the feeling that people don't know the back story to what happened in GW1. You see, as people kept playing GW1 people got untold amount of gold. This created crazy inflation, so they had to make a new form of currency called Ectoplasm. It was just a resource of tremendous wealth. Kind of like having gold and diamonds that have value, next to world money. The reason is of course that real life gold is a long lasting material, that unlike steal, iron and other materials don't break down. In fact, if the world perished, 200 years from now, the earth would have absorbed most of the materials that we use to build our cities. except for gold. That's why gold is such a great currency and why it has continued to be so for thousands of years.
Gems is that new currency. it will have tremendous value regardless of inflation because it offers something you cant get by other means. if the game launches with 4-5 character slots, you can be your butt on that many will want gems so they can get a character slot for free. but some people are lazy and dont want to work for that. fine. let them pay. let them pay extra "taxes" to fund the next content. you dont have to. your enjoying the game and getting real stuff that other people are paying for free, by just playing. and your not doing it in a way were yopu have to farm battlegrounds or kill mobs in the same area. To me this system sounds like win-win, and I honestly think it will work.
Cash shop have a bad name, but mostly because every game that resorts to cash shop sort of suck. most subscription MMOs suck. that is why you see the bittersweet state of affairs in the MMO community. Just a bunch of lousy games, that are fun for a while but not worth it. Developers are waking up, and League of Legends is really one of the first ones to be massively succesful at giving stuff for real money, that does not make them more powerful. This was ArenaNets plan all along.
If you were on mmorpg.com anno 2003-2004 you will remember the predictions people had. On was that guild wars expansions would be forced on players. But they didnt. you could still pvp competitively without owning the guild wars expansions. They are not going to move away from that. So don't worry about it. Changes are scary, but this system sounds great. People just have to accept that everyone is different and want different things. ArenaNet needs an income and people need to be realistic about that. The cash shop is not an end to all means for further development - Obviously thats the paid expansions/campaigns, however the cash shop will help fund the live team, the forums, the gms, the admins, the technical support, the 5 years of contious development with no income with a 200+ staff team, all the marketing, it helps fund the servers, the server tech teams, the it supports. Guild Wars 2 is a massive service, and the arguments against the cash shop, frankly to me sounds like little kids complaining that it's not xmas every single day.
Regardless if your scenario A or B you won't have a tipping power. thats all they promised. And thats the only thing thats important. You can't win by paying. you can spend 500 dollars in that store, and you dont got an edge in the game. you wont have an edge in dungeons or in pvp. all you can get is some cool looking items, and speed up your levelling process and thats fine. thats okay, if thats how you want to play. just like its okay to play the game for longer than others. "it's unfair that i can play 1 hour a day but he can play 10 hours". or that it's unfair that his server always gets WvW favor. why does his server always get the server wide boosts to experience? or why does the guys who are in guilds always get the favor. These things can be considered unfair, but by realistic eyes, that's just how the world is. And I think you will be more happy if you just comes to terms with that.
People forget that, some players like to lvl efficent and fast, and they are allowed to do that. This video talks about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYj2QMEPRT0&feature=channel < Basically TotalBiscuit, is saying that after having been through the content lots of times, some people simply might be interested in thar aspect. It doesnt make them more powerful, but just makes them level through that faster.
if your impatient, and dont want to spend real life money, just manage your in-game gold, and boost your way to lvl 80 (like it would make a difference). case closed. it will also make your finance skillz sharper. |
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4/02/12 8:20:04 AM#9
I don't see the need to mislead people about the cash shop contents or what is and isn't buying an advantage (or power if you prefer that label). This is the way games are going, and I'm already aboard the RMT train. I'm looking forward to leveling faster with experience boosts, getting karma faster with karma boosts, hoarding mystic chest buffs for WvW, and manipulating the in-game gold and gem markets with my bank account. I'll enjoy the edge I'll have in WvW (we keep our normal gear for WvW unlike the 5v5 arenas) over other less fortunate players. Sure, everyone will catch up eventually, but I'll have my fun and my mystic chest buffs until then, and the latter should serve me well even after we're evenly geared level 80s. What the developers really need to do is add in more items that reward players who spend money in significant ways. The boosts and such are a nice start, but I want to see some armor and weapons with higher stats than the standard level 80 items found in the game. I won't always have the time to play that I do this week (Easter recess makes the city a lot quieter) so I'm hoping I'll be able to buy my way into better gear with future updates. Players should not have an advantage over other players simply because they have put more time into their characters. We are in the new age of capitalism in gaming! |
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4/02/12 8:22:21 AM#10
Originally posted by MosesZD Pretty much the only flaw I saw too... gems don't remove gold, they redistribute it. So when you're trading gems to someone for gold the end result is that you have their gold and they have access to the cash shop. Which, of course, will still beg the question regarding what other cash sinks will be in game. Oderint, dum metuant. |
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Adalwulff
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/18/10
"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between" |
4/02/12 8:38:28 AM#11
Originally posted by Volkon
I saw that too, so Im thinking.... Gold + supply is the way to upgrade/build/repair ect, so in order for this to work, there needs to be some heavy gold sinks in there, and more. Meaning, we might be repariing A LOT! We might be paying enormous amounts of gold for upgrads to keeps, or personal items. Guild upgrades will also be insane. We might see fees all over the place. Its the only way I can see this too work. But Im no economists at all...lol  |
Originally posted by McMoneybags nah. getting max stat armors is not going to be a problem at all. By the time a person is lvl 80, they will most likely have the best stat-wise gear they can. This is Guild Wars, not World of Warcraft.
The manipulation will be the same as other games. arenaNet just took it out of the hands of the gold farmers, and into their own. mo money for them.
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Originally posted by Volkon
How is this so hard to understand?
gold > gems > gold sink.
Just because the gold can be used for a higher material/currency/system does not make it less of a gold sink. everyone is going to want character slots, just lik gw1. believe that. |
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4/02/12 8:58:08 AM#14
Is that link NDA breaking?
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4/02/12 9:02:59 AM#15
Originally posted by MosesZD
Very true. To be fair tho, he did correct his mistake in a follow-up video and mentioned the necessity of proper gold sinks in order to prevent inflation and the consequent impact on server economy. * Waves at Pushkina * |
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4/02/12 9:07:10 AM#16
That video could be about most games with a cash shop. There is nothing that makes it different in any significant way compared to other cash shop games. People that have played such games should know what to expect. |
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DeaconX
 Elite Member
Joined: 2/08/05
Stand up for what you believe; Even if you stand alone. |
4/02/12 9:09:22 AM#17
Originally posted by Hurvart I have to disagree... it's pretty specific to how ANet is doing Guild Wars 2, covering gold/gems/karma. Definitely worth the watch for anyone confused about it.
Good video.  Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one. BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward. |
Originally posted by Hurvart I've never played a game with a cash shop were I could get anything in the cash shop just by PLAYING the game. I can get anything there is in there without spending a dime.
Thats better than in GW1 and WoW. In WoW a character slot was 20 Dollars! In GW2 I will be able to buy that just by playing.
THATS AWESOME! |
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4/02/12 9:27:56 AM#19
Originally posted by Kalfer This does not constitute a gold sink, which refers to the destruction of gold from the game world. WoodenPotatoes noted this error and corrected himself in the video with a pop-up around 5:15. Unless there is a small gold tax imposed on the gold > gem exchange, no gold will be lost from the in-game enconomy, meaning no gold sink. Gold sinks are generally necessary in MMOs to combat what would otherwise be infinite, endless inflation, which would make it ever more difficult for new players to enter and compete in the economy. As you said though, the important point is that no gold is created through these exchanges. Relative to someone who participates in no such transactions, all other players become no more or less wealthy. That person's place in the economy would be so minimally impacted so as to be utterly unnoticable, which, I think, is what most people fear. |
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4/02/12 9:43:48 AM#20
Originally posted by Hurvart
I guess it is true that the video could be about any game cash shop similar in nature to the one implemented in GW2, unfortunately most cash shops are not. People who have played such games would know.
However, there is no denying the fact that GW2 does have a cash shop as do many free-to-play games. And since they share such characteristics, a rational individual would of course have no problem pretending that the cash shop in GW2 is no different from the many cash shops before it.
It is much easier to put all your eggs in one basket after all.
* Waves at Pushkina * |
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