Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

"The main new part being the gem-gold exchange"

LOL.  Yeah, that new part that in most MMOs is a bannable offense because it is so blatantly pay2win.  That little new addition to the cash shop LOL.  I mean, thats like saying the guy you just hired for your company is perfectly fine, other than his embezzlement conviction last year...

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

"The main new part being the gem-gold exchange"

LOL.  Yeah, that new part that in most MMOs is a bannable offense because it is so blatantly pay2win.  That little new addition to the cash shop LOL.  I mean, thats like saying the guy you just hired for your company is perfectly fine, other than his embezzlement conviction last year...

the point is even without the gem exchange you and others are making points against whats in the cash shop. 

the cash shop and the gem exchange are 2 different features that are intertwined.  the cash shop in itself is what they always said it would be like gw1.

in there statements that you are quoting and pretty much saying they've been lying to us by changeing however many times, when they didnt.

they eventually added a new feature to the game "gem-gold exchange"  and now your saying they lied to you about the cash shop in the past

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

"The main new part being the gem-gold exchange"

LOL.  Yeah, that new part that in most MMOs is a bannable offense because it is so blatantly pay2win.  That little new addition to the cash shop LOL.  I mean, thats like saying the guy you just hired for your company is perfectly fine, other than his embezzlement conviction last year...

the point is even without the gem exchange you and others are making points against whats in the cash shop. 

the cash shop and the gem exchange are 2 different features that are intertwined.  the cash shop in itself is what they always said it would be like gw1.

in there statements that you are quoting and pretty much saying they've been lying to us by changeing however many times, when they didnt.

they eventually added a new feature to the game "gem-gold exchange"  and now your saying they lied to you about the cash shop in the past

They changed their cash shop philosophy twice from what I've read.  For years it was "cosmetic items as well as items that don't affect gameplay or balance" or something similar.  Then it was "items that can otherwise be obtained in game through the investment of time" and most recently "Can't beat the gold sellers so we will sell gold" (paraphrasing obviously).  that is how I read their shifting views, you can disagree but there are quotes that exist which support my view.

Also, as much as everybody says "no big deal with being able to buy gold" I 100% guarantee not one poster on this board a year ago thought Anet would do that.

But all of the above is just "what did they know and when did they know it" type arguments.  The true crimes, in my opinion, are the items in the cash shop.  My biggest two issues with it are:

1) Clear pay2win with the ability to purchase influence with gold/gems which affects RvRvR PVP

2) Obnoxious in-game advertisements for the cash shop via the "mystic chests."  Not sure what is in those chests but it doesn't matter.  It is crass and having those advertisements to the cash shop sitting in my inventory would piss me off big time.

I think there are some other items in the cash shop that are in the gray area (grind reducers) but really it is the two I listed above which are most egregious.  Most who have issues with the cash shop don't really care about the EXP boosters although defenders of the cash shop keep trying to turn the argument to them.  EXP boosters, although in a gray area, are not even close to the biggest issue with the cash shop.

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

"The main new part being the gem-gold exchange"

LOL.  Yeah, that new part that in most MMOs is a bannable offense because it is so blatantly pay2win.  That little new addition to the cash shop LOL.  I mean, thats like saying the guy you just hired for your company is perfectly fine, other than his embezzlement conviction last year...

the point is even without the gem exchange you and others are making points against whats in the cash shop. 

the cash shop and the gem exchange are 2 different features that are intertwined.  the cash shop in itself is what they always said it would be like gw1.

in there statements that you are quoting and pretty much saying they've been lying to us by changeing however many times, when they didnt.

they eventually added a new feature to the game "gem-gold exchange"  and now your saying they lied to you about the cash shop in the past

Is like saying "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, How was the play?"

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

"The main new part being the gem-gold exchange"

LOL.  Yeah, that new part that in most MMOs is a bannable offense because it is so blatantly pay2win.  That little new addition to the cash shop LOL.  I mean, thats like saying the guy you just hired for your company is perfectly fine, other than his embezzlement conviction last year...

the point is even without the gem exchange you and others are making points against whats in the cash shop. 

the cash shop and the gem exchange are 2 different features that are intertwined.  the cash shop in itself is what they always said it would be like gw1.

in there statements that you are quoting and pretty much saying they've been lying to us by changeing however many times, when they didnt.

they eventually added a new feature to the game "gem-gold exchange"  and now your saying they lied to you about the cash shop in the past

They changed their cash shop philosophy twice from what I've read.  For years it was "cosmetic items as well as items that don't affect gameplay or balance" or something similar.  Then it was "items that can otherwise be obtained in game through the investment of time" and most recently "Can't beat the gold sellers so we will sell gold" (paraphrasing obviously).  that is how I read their shifting views, you can disagree but there are quotes that exist which support my view.

Also, as much as everybody says "no big deal with being able to buy gold" I 100% guarantee not one poster on this board a year ago thought Anet would do that.

But all of the above is just "what did they know and when did they know it" type arguments.  The true crimes, in my opinion, are the items in the cash shop.  My biggest two issues with it are:

1) Clear pay2win with the ability to purchase influence with gold/gems which affects RvRvR PVP

2) Obnoxious in-game advertisements for the cash shop via the "mystic chests."  Not sure what is in those chests but it doesn't matter.  It is crass and having those advertisements to the cash shop sitting in my inventory would piss me off big time.

I think there are some other items in the cash shop that are in the gray area (grind reducers) but really it is the two I listed above which are most egregious.  Most who have issues with the cash shop don't really care about the EXP boosters although defenders of the cash shop keep trying to turn the argument to them.  EXP boosters, although in a gray area, are not even close to the biggest issue with the cash shop.

I'm simply saying they are 2 different features

i agree with your point 1 and can see where you have a problem with that.

point 2 i dont really get.  maybe if you got a chest and there was no other way to open it or get rid of it besides the cash shop then ok.  but the fact that you can find keys, you can throw it away, and you can put it in the trading post i dont get how it ties you straight to the cash shop.  not sure if you can sell it off to an npc or not

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

"The main new part being the gem-gold exchange"

LOL.  Yeah, that new part that in most MMOs is a bannable offense because it is so blatantly pay2win.  That little new addition to the cash shop LOL.  I mean, thats like saying the guy you just hired for your company is perfectly fine, other than his embezzlement conviction last year...

the point is even without the gem exchange you and others are making points against whats in the cash shop. 

the cash shop and the gem exchange are 2 different features that are intertwined.  the cash shop in itself is what they always said it would be like gw1.

in there statements that you are quoting and pretty much saying they've been lying to us by changeing however many times, when they didnt.

they eventually added a new feature to the game "gem-gold exchange"  and now your saying they lied to you about the cash shop in the past

Is like saying "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, How was the play?"

im not saying you dont have legit points about the gem->gold exchange. I'm merley stating that they are seperate entities that a lot of people are lumping together.  and i dont disregard some of the things about the cash shop being negative either although i do disagree with alot of the things being said by people against it

GW2 cash shop = P2W

diamonds for gold is unacceptable, regardless of your excuse USING REAL MONEY TO TRADE FOR INGAME GOLD IS WRONG

If you think the shareholders and owners of Anet will back off when they find out the cash cow that is pay to win gaming you are wrong.  I predict even more pay to win items will begin to appear in the cash shop.

Originally posted by 123443211234

GW2 cash shop = P2W

 

diamonds for gold is unacceptable, regardless of your excuse USING REAL MONEY TO TRADE FOR INGAME GOLD IS WRONG

 

If you think the shareholders and owners of Anet will back off when they find out the cash cow that is pay to win gaming you are wrong.  I predict even more pay to win items will begin to appear in the cash shop.

This is what happens when companies make pay to win games.

http://www.perfectworld.com/ (one title in 2007, 13 titles in 2012)

They paid to win

and Oh yeah, NCSoft wants a piece of that. They've only been after it for how long trying with a bunch of failed titels?

Tabula Rasa comes to mind. I can only imagine how that one set them back.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by heartless

...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

Now tha tsuch a basic arguemnt has been so severly forked, back to t eh real issue.

I agree, the fact that the CS is still under NDA speaks very loudly.

The whole game is actually under the NDA. The press got permission to post impressions of the 1-20 content.

No game drops their NDA this early in development, don't blow this out of proportion.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by heartless

...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

Now tha tsuch a basic arguemnt has been so severly forked, back to t eh real issue.

I agree, the fact that the CS is still under NDA speaks very loudly.

The whole game is actually under the NDA. The press got permission to post impressions of the 1-20 content.

No game drops their NDA this early in development, don't blow this out of proportion.

You are right!

it's beta (This time, it works in your favor)

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing that this talk of advantages in WvW has clouded the issue, but it's really no different than anything else being sold.

What ArenaNet is saying that people can use money to replace a reasonable amount of time in game.  That's it.

Buying XP boosts replaces time spent leveling.

Buying gold or karma/crafting/magical drop rate boosts replaces time spent trying to look the way you want to look.

Buying gold for use in WvW replaces time spent farming gold for use in WvW.

There is no Pay to Win here.  There is only Pay to Skip.  It's the same kind of thing that's been in their cash shop since 2008.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by heartless

...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

Now tha tsuch a basic arguemnt has been so severly forked, back to t eh real issue.

I agree, the fact that the CS is still under NDA speaks very loudly.

The whole game is actually under the NDA. The press got permission to post impressions of the 1-20 content.

No game drops their NDA this early in development, don't blow this out of proportion.

You are right!

it's beta

It's beta and they are not dropping NDA?! They must have something to hide! Those sneaky sobs...

Originally posted by cali59

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing that this talk of advantages in WvW has clouded the issue, but it's really no different than anything else being sold.

 

What ArenaNet is saying that people can use money to replace a reasonable amount of time in game.  That's it.

Buying XP boosts replaces time spent leveling.

Buying gold or karma/crafting/magical drop rate boosts replaces time spent trying to look the way you want to look.

Buying gold for use in WvW replaces time spent farming gold for use in WvW.

 

There is no Pay to Win here.  There is only Pay to Skip.  It's the same kind of thing that's been in their cash shop since 2008.

That's reasonable. And I can only hope that is what they will do. But the mechaincs of GW2 aren't really set up where that make a lot of sense.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by heartless

...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

Now tha tsuch a basic arguemnt has been so severly forked, back to t eh real issue.

I agree, the fact that the CS is still under NDA speaks very loudly.

The whole game is actually under the NDA. The press got permission to post impressions of the 1-20 content.

No game drops their NDA this early in development, don't blow this out of proportion.

You are right!

it's beta

It's beta and they are not dropping NDA?! They must have something to hide! Those sneaky sobs...

You and I have come to an understanding. That is, we will not see eye to eye, so before this really does get into personal mud slining, I am not responding to these posts any more, But go back and reread my post, I edited it after you posted this and gave you credit.

Originally posted by Betakodo

Prices - http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Blueprints-ventor.png

What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).

For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.

And Wow players who paid real money for the guardian mini pet get an unfair advantage buying vendor water!?!

ZOMG!?!?!?!?!one11!

Seriously, look at the price of the damn blueprints.

Arrow Cart Blueprints  10 silver 40 copper.
Siege golem blueprints  1 gold 4 silver 0 copper

Ask yourself how long it's going to take to make that much money in game. Even if each mob only dropped 1 copper, how long in an mmo does it take to kill 140 mobs?

I think the OP is only interested in QQing about something that's not even finished yet. The gems have no in game value because the players set that value, the games not released yet so there are no market prices.


I also can't believe people are still viewing this game in the same light as other mmo's (namely WoW). If I build a war golem and tell it to go bash down that gate, if your on my server than your benefiting from it. There will be someone doing the exact same on the other 2 servers so tell me, who's actually losing out? All rewards are based on your participation, all server rewards are blanket rewards affecting everyone on the winning server.
This game isn't about me me me me me, it's about us us us us us.

Your crying bloody murder about a non-issue. the question here is why?

Do you want GW2 to fail so you can say "I told you so"?
Do you fear the game will live up to it's hype and tempt all your friends away from whatever game your playing?
Or maybe tempt you away?

Whatever your reasons, I suggest you use a little more common sense before trying to provoke a flame war with an ill informed assumption based on a screenshot without any character reference...i.e. you can enter wvwvw at level 2...how much silver did you have at level 2 in wow?


TL;DR - Your attempt at trolling is fail, common sense will prevail!

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by heartless

...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

Now tha tsuch a basic arguemnt has been so severly forked, back to t eh real issue.

I agree, the fact that the CS is still under NDA speaks very loudly.

The whole game is actually under the NDA. The press got permission to post impressions of the 1-20 content.

No game drops their NDA this early in development, don't blow this out of proportion.

You are right!

it's beta

It's beta and they are not dropping NDA?! They must have something to hide! Those sneaky sobs...

You and I have come to an understanding. That is, we will not see eye to eye, so before this really does get into personal mud slining, I am not responding to these posts any more, But go back and reread my post, I edited it after you posted this and gave you credit.

I meant my comment as a lighthearted remark. Nothing personal against you. But if it did insult you in any way, I appologize.

Originally posted by heartless

 

I meant my comment as a lighthearted remark. Nothing personal against you. But if it did insult you in any way, I appologize.

Nope, it's good, I just didnt want to go that way. Its all, Coulda been me, just started to detect a barb in the message.

I had given you credit because I had just done the same thing I had been pointing out not to do.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by 123443211234

GW2 cash shop = P2W

 

diamonds for gold is unacceptable, regardless of your excuse USING REAL MONEY TO TRADE FOR INGAME GOLD IS WRONG

 

If you think the shareholders and owners of Anet will back off when they find out the cash cow that is pay to win gaming you are wrong.  I predict even more pay to win items will begin to appear in the cash shop.

This is what happens when companies make pay to win games.

http://www.perfectworld.com/ (one title in 2007, 13 titles in 2012)

They paid to win

and Oh yeah, NCSoft wants a piece of that. They've only been after it for how long trying with a bunch of failed titels?

Tabula Rasa comes to mind. I can only imagine how that one set them back.

Not really. Look at Guild Wars 1. It will be fine:)

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

That's reasonable. And I can only hope that is what they will do. But the mechaincs of GW2 aren't really set up where that make a lot of sense.

Sure they are. What most people don't get (because they were not heavily into Guild Wars) is that its not difficult getting the best gear in the game.

So what's going to happen most likely, is that there will be prestigious armor sets and weapons in the game that will cost outragously much. these will be massive massive time commitments and money sinks. And it's fine. they wont be needed, but it will be something for the person who needs a reason to play 16 hours a day.

fact of the matter is that the end game of GW2 is the entire game in its entirety. this game is not about getting to lvl 80 and then your ready to play a different game. side kicking and down scaling. 

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

That's reasonable. And I can only hope that is what they will do. But the mechaincs of GW2 aren't really set up where that make a lot of sense.

Sure they are. What most people don't get (because they were not heavily into Guild Wars) is that its not difficult getting the best gear in the game.

 

So what's going to happen most likely, is that there will be prestigious armor sets and weapons in the game that will cost outragously much. these will be massive massive time commitments and money sinks. And it's fine. they wont be needed, but it will be something for the person who needs a reason to play 16 hours a day.

 

fact of the matter is that the end game of GW2 is the entire game in its entirety. this game is not about getting to lvl 80 and then your ready to play a different game. side kicking and down scaling. 

Which is one of the reasons I want to play the game so much. It's very different.