Originally posted by sketchy_

Weird and I always thought PvP was about killing other players. Who gives a shit if it's a "fair" fight or not.

If you're really into e-sport... ehm well you picked the wrong game genre.

 

Counter-Strike, Quake, Starcraft, Street Fighter etc <- e-sport games

Let role-playing games be what they are.

Which is exactly what GW2 is going for. :)

Originally posted by Deron_Barak
Wait, what?

When did GW2 become the place for "hardcore" PvPers? Laugh out loud. Because all they have is battlegrounds? Wow.

One, PvP in TERA will probably look different a month from now when Outlaw mode is more structured.

Two, although released late battlegrounds will likely be coming out the same time as GW2 and maybe server vs. server which blows anything GW2 might have out of the water. Oh, I might have to take that back since they have siege weapons...

I'm not going to get into the actual combat mechanics as it's even more hilarious than the PvP comment. GW2 might have a better quest delivery method and will be really fun to play but let's not get delusional

I will address your sentences one at a time.

Apart from a minor comment by badspock about being a GW2 fan, no one else in this thread brought up GW2, so your first sentence seems kind of weird. The confusion may come because there is a type of fighting in Tera that they referred to as "Guild Wars" which is guild vs. guild structured combat.

If Outlaw mode is restructured a month from now, we can revisit it then. Meanwhile, it is what it is.

BGs will be coming out the same time as GW2 which has BGs.. ok. Server vs. Server MAY be coming out the same time as GW2 which already has server vs. server (with real objectives), including full on sieges(that actually matter), open world objectives, PvP incentives, etc. Or it may not come out till later, or it may not see light of day. *shrug

GW2 has a hybrid system that allows for both methods. You can tab target, but you can also use positional and twitch without tab targetting. Some things I can see the need for tab targetting(like extremely long shots with the long bow. someone above mentioned how to be shot with a bow he would have to be relatively close to you... in GW2 that is not the case.. and doesn't make sense for a bow imo anyways) but for the most part, tab targetting will make you less effective than not in PvP.

Originally posted by indojabijin

Originally posted by sketchy_

Weird and I always thought PvP was about killing other players. Who gives a shit if it's a "fair" fight or not.

If you're really into e-sport... ehm well you picked the wrong game genre.

 

Counter-Strike, Quake, Starcraft, Street Fighter etc <- e-sport games

Let role-playing games be what they are.

Which is exactly what GW2 is going for. :)

GW2 won't have open world pvp. Which is the main reason I'm not going to play it.

Some of the people in this forum need to cut back on the caffiene...and maybe take a nap.  the guy was just stating his opinion, politely too & you guys attack him like he said something nasty about your mother

Well, it's kind of the same as the "no gear progression" comments regarding GW2 PvP. You see people who basically have no clue on how this game will evolve in PvP (PvP in Lineage 2 was awesome, even without the presence of castles), trying to defend (or attack) the game.

Personally I'm more annoyed by the "Just because you can, you do" mentality of western PvPers. I rather prefer how easterners are solving their issues in a PvP game. It even makes for less convolted game mechanics. Time will tell I guess.

Originally posted by drakes821

How do other PvPers feel about this?

Lineage 2, which is in my opinion a great pvp game, didn't have sieges until several months after launch. And it worked out "fine".

I'm not concerned.

Originally posted by BigBadWolfe

You my friend are not a PvPer at all, you're a just a skill-less PKer crying that you want rewards for being a bad player like every other MMO gives you.  I'm proud to say that Tera does not cater to the likes of you at all.  You have to gull to come into this forum talking about how broken Tera is when you came from Mortal Online which should probably win an award for having the most unbalanced, buggy PvP for an online game.

You come in here complaining, TEARS, that Tera is unbalanced because you lost to a player 5 levels above you.  And then you turn around crying that you don't get exp for constantly ganking players, which by your logic would contribute even MORE to the imbalance.

Yes, the game gets more balanced when you level up and actually get your hands on PvP gear that you can get from rewards by not being a complete anti-social player and participating in GvG.  Guess what smart people are going to be doing at launch?  They are going to spend that first month getting into guilds, forming alliances, learning their class mechanics through PvE, and participating in full on Guild Wars.  While you and your friends(?)  run around in Outlaw trolling each other in low level PvP with clear level differences and wonder why Tera doesn't reward you for your bad playstyle, and eventually end up getting beat up by the REAL PvPers.

And please don't take it as an insult when I keep saying how bad your playstyle is.  In fact I'm super happy that you posted how much you despise Tera's PvP mechanics as it validates Tera as an anti-noob-gankfest. Tera will be the game that caters to large scale open world PvP where you have to learn to actively dodge/block attacks and work-together as a team to progress in both PvP and PvE.

About the Battle Grounds, that is going to hurt Tera's launch especially on the PvE servers, and they really need to get it fixed before GW2 comes out.  But at the same time I have to grudgingly agree with En Masse's decision as poorly implemented instanced PvP has ruined more than one MMO's World PvP, and that's where Tera's bread and butter is.  Tera does have truly epic PvE boss fights thanks to the action combat and BAM designs, but I do think that the Open World PvP and PvP community is really is where Tera is going to shine.

Oh wow...I'm a bit awstruck how you managed to muster up this reply based on my posts...but have come to the conclusion you lack the ability to have a discussion and as a result I will not be replying to anything you post on the forums. Have a good life!

And thank you everyone else who did reply, lots of good insight. I think the OWPvP will be enough to hold us over a while (all we did in the beta was level different classes to 12-14 and pvp around lumbertown so we enjoy it), and we'll look into getting involved in some GvG wars when we have money. If we get bored in the first month we'll just wait till more PvP features are added like suggested.

Thanks.

After Tera, I'm definitely not going back to any form of tab targetting based PvP.  If you want to kill someone you need to earn it, and as much as people who haven't gotten past level 20 will tell you otherwise, you do have to earn all your kills in Tera.  And you don't have to believe me, I know every WoW player in the world will tell you that WoW takes skill, even though that's nonsense.  They stack gear and mash their macros and their become PvP heroes until the next FotM patch.  And clearly a lot of people like that playstyle, you can even say the majority of players do considering how popular WoW, Rift, and SW:TOR is sub-wise.

Then on the other side of the spectrum you have your gankers.  Ultima online players who consider preying on players that can't fight back as their ideal form of PvP.  EVE probably does it the best as it turns Space piracy and griefing into a legitimate gameplay mechanic.  And that's fine as well, people want to be the bad guy.  Playing the good guy all the time isn't fun, people want that option to play the bad guy, and it makes PvP more interesting.

What Tera does right for me is that it really hits that sweet spot for PvP.  You get a nice heavily populated PvP server, so nobody should be asking for incentives to PvP or crying tears if they get ambushed and killed while PvEing.  But at the same time you have to earn those kills.  You're going to see a lot of players trying to stack stats, and run at another player face first and mash buttons trying to win.  But they will find out that Tera combat is completely devoid of win buttons, every arrow you land has to be accurately shot, and even then it's still possible to avoid it with strict timing/blocking.  At the same time Melees that close the gap aren't guaranteed free damage either, they have to time and direct their stuns, or their attacker will get out of range again.

The best part is that there's a whole community of PvP players to hang out and battle each other.  You're going to get to KNOW these dudes that are you are constantly waging war against.  That makes beating them all the more satisfying, and alliances and rivalries will be formed, and your actions in the community for better or worse, will be judged by the community when it's time for your guild to run for Vanarch. 

What I think is genius is that it's all natural, most of the stuff players learn about grouping and combat in PvE will transfer over into PvP, and majority of the PvE content is non-instanced creating tons of potential PvP opportunities.  This makes the translation from PvE to PvP in Tera much smoother then other game, and you will get a lot of PvE players that normally hate World PvP to play Tera's PvP.

Originally posted by drakes821

Oh wow...I'm a bit awstruck how you managed to muster up this reply based on my posts...but have come to the conclusion you lack the ability to have a discussion and as a result I will not be replying to anything you post on the forums. Have a good life!

And thank you everyone else who did reply, lots of good insight. I think the OWPvP will be enough to hold us over a while (all we did in the beta was level different classes to 12-14 and pvp around lumbertown so we enjoy it), and we'll look into getting involved in some GvG wars when we have money. If we get bored in the first month we'll just wait till more PvP features are added like suggested.

Thanks.

 

I'm not going to be made to look like the bad guy here, you come into this forums talking about your a PvP player and you're not getting awards for PvP.  But where you were really saying was that that you weren't getting rewarded for ganking players, and I corrected you, that it's not a problem with the game design's it's working as intended.

As you can see from my post count, I don't spend count a lot of time on the forums, but I'm getting sick of players that only played the game for less than a day making threads here stating their uninformed opinions as fact.

Unlike a lot of people here, I HAVE played K-Tera and W-Tera, both NA and EU versions, and what I say isn't baseless speculation.  Anybody with more knowledges of Tera mechanics then me feel free to call me out on any of my posts.  I'm sorry if feelings get hurt, but someone that actually knows what there talking about needs to step up and defend this game from the constant, unending stream of troll posts.

Now that you've stopped posting we can let another poorly made thread die.

Bigbad, theres just one thing, he does not come off as a troll and he is being pretty polite about it. I think you are being a little too aggressive, it reminds me back when I was making my first posts. I took anything negative as a direct insult to me. But over time you just learn to calm down and try to have reasonable discussions.

He asked for other PvPers opinions about PvP, not opinions on himself or his playstyle.

the level diff sure is stupid, I was like 70-80% hp and lvl 23 and two lvl 20s tried to gank me and I narrowly killed them both. And trust me it wasn't skill, I just logged on that char after 4 weeks off and could barely remember what my skills do. And then you got high levels coming in and just 1 shotting people.

the more I play the game, the more I look forward to gw2 and its non retarded game design. 

Originally posted by BigBadWolfe

Originally posted by drakes821

Oh wow...I'm a bit awstruck how you managed to muster up this reply based on my posts...but have come to the conclusion you lack the ability to have a discussion and as a result I will not be replying to anything you post on the forums. Have a good life!

And thank you everyone else who did reply, lots of good insight. I think the OWPvP will be enough to hold us over a while (all we did in the beta was level different classes to 12-14 and pvp around lumbertown so we enjoy it), and we'll look into getting involved in some GvG wars when we have money. If we get bored in the first month we'll just wait till more PvP features are added like suggested.

Thanks.

 

I'm not going to be made to look like the bad guy here, you come into this forums talking about your a PvP player and you're not getting awards for PvP.  But where you were really saying was that that you weren't getting rewarded for ganking players, and I corrected you, that it's not a problem with the game design's it's working as intended.

As you can see from my post count, I don't spend count a lot of time on the forums, but I'm getting sick of players that only played the game for less than a day making threads here stating their uninformed opinions as fact.

Unlike a lot of people here, I HAVE played K-Tera and W-Tera, both NA and EU versions, and what I say isn't baseless speculation.  Anybody with more knowledges of Tera mechanics then me feel free to call me out on any of my posts.  I'm sorry if feelings get hurt, but someone that actually knows what there talking about needs to step up and defend this game from the constant, unending stream of troll posts.

Now that you've stopped posting we can let another poorly made thread die.

The OP said he's disappointed that the only form of PVP that will make it to live is OWPVP, and that OWPVP in Tera is broken, which it is. PVP in K-Tera is even more broken. Somehow you dreamt up all the other stuff about the OP and you were even able to define him as a player based on one forum post. Your skills as a clairvoyant are unmatched. Your skills as a petulant child are also second to none. If you're an adult, how do you survive in the real world? Is this how you actually communicate with people?

Originally posted by Consensus

the level diff sure is stupid, I was like 70-80% hp and lvl 23 and two lvl 20s tried to gank me and I narrowly killed them both. And trust me it wasn't skill, I just logged on that char after 4 weeks off and could barely remember what my skills do. And then you got high levels coming in and just 1 shotting people.

the more I play the game, the more I look forward to gw2 and its non retarded game design. 

That probably because its Korean, reason i say that is Korean don't OWPvP, they don't pvp unless they are capped so their concept of pvp is completely different from ours. It was never an issue for them because when they PvP it was always on the same lvl. Hopefuly EME will work on changing that for us. Idk how skill required to play the game have to do with you can't remembering what your skills does....

lol well all i can say is good luck and don't set hopes too high.

Originally posted by Mors-Subita

GW2 has a hybrid system that allows for both methods. You can tab target, but you can also use positional and twitch without tab targetting. Some things I can see the need for tab targetting(like extremely long shots with the long bow. someone above mentioned how to be shot with a bow he would have to be relatively close to you... in GW2 that is not the case.. and doesn't make sense for a bow imo anyways) but for the most part, tab targetting will make you less effective than not in PvP.

Although this is off topic a bit but i address it because well i address ti every time it comes up XD

From what I seen in GW2 like you said its a hybrid but ti barely matter because the manual targeting part is only good when you want to fight a specific monster, other wise it pretty much autotargets what your facing. All ranged attacks i seen don't even miss, they all either home or as GW2 fans told me "travel too fast" to be dodged.

And idk how can hit missing be less effective than missing o.o? Maybe you want to expand on that coz i'm confused here.

Originally posted by indojabijin

Originally posted by sketchy_

Weird and I always thought PvP was about killing other players. Who gives a shit if it's a "fair" fight or not.

If you're really into e-sport... ehm well you picked the wrong game genre.

 

Counter-Strike, Quake, Starcraft, Street Fighter etc <- e-sport games

Let role-playing games be what they are.

Which is exactly what GW2 is going for. :)

expect for the way less required skill involved. Just because its fair doesn't means it requires skills, GW2 combat what i seen kills any chance of it been a e-sport. So far all range attacks hom or as other like to say it "too fast" to dodge. The ability to us skill with cast time while moving and also the ability to use instant cash in middle of casting as kill wtf.... I yet to see a e-sport that broken. street fighter all have animiation delay/root, sc well completley different type, fps require aiming and reflex. Cloest thing i can compare GW2 is LoL but even in LoL there is no targeting,  you also get rooted for good amount of skills. Or grandchase although thats more alone the line of street fighter. I yet to see what major skill compent GW2 requires, understanding weapons and skill? Thats every single game, that has class/skills isn't anything major for an e-sport.

Originally posted by drakes821

First off this isn't a complaint about the actual PvP fighting mechanics, I think those are outstanding, this is a complaint about the actual PvP features.

There will be no battle grounds till late in the summer, there's no open world PvP incentives, and currently the level/gear advantage is astounding.

So what does this mean of a PvPer like myself? There will still be Guild wars but I play with a few real life friends in a small guild so it's hard to fight other guilds (though I'm sure we'll still try). I guess deathmatches are also an option but from my beta experience they are hard to set up and it's even hard to find others willing to wager on the outcome.

Basically all me and my friends will be left to do is open world PvP, but OWPvP is almost broken atm with the insane level/gear advantage you get just from 1 level/gear tier. This means that if we want to get to the balanced PvP we're going to need to hit max level...but if we want to level and get good gear we're just going to have to quest grind all and run dungeons a thousand times like PvEers.

It just pains me that the game has such an awesome combat system and PvP mechanics but has absolutly nothing meaningful connected to the PvP.

How do other PvPers feel about this?

Most pvp'rs will tell you straight up the reward for open world pvp is the satisfaction of killing your foe. I know that sounds harsh but I use to be wanting some sort of reward for pvp and people would tell me it is the satisfaction of the kill. Well they were right because even with not gaining a thing I love to pvp and kill people. We are talking people my level too. I would rather open world pvp then be stuck doing glorified kill trading in an instance aka a BG.

Open world is the real deal for pvp in my view. In a BG people know they are going to be attacked and that isn't fun, well it is but it gets old after a while. I prefer the hunt. If I kill you hey I am happy if not oh well that is the name of the game. Although something should be done about open world PVP to a point/ Risk vs reward is fun to have as well. At least look at Aion if you were a rank 1 and got killed you could lose hours of pvp AP points. In all honestly for the PVP servers I think they should get rid of the outlaw system and make everyone flagged when outside of a town. A total FFA that is pvp to me.

PS little drunk atm so I may have just rambled but no biggy hah.

Originally posted by Beacker

Originally posted by drakes821

First off this isn't a complaint about the actual PvP fighting mechanics, I think those are outstanding, this is a complaint about the actual PvP features.

There will be no battle grounds till late in the summer, there's no open world PvP incentives, and currently the level/gear advantage is astounding.

So what does this mean of a PvPer like myself? There will still be Guild wars but I play with a few real life friends in a small guild so it's hard to fight other guilds (though I'm sure we'll still try). I guess deathmatches are also an option but from my beta experience they are hard to set up and it's even hard to find others willing to wager on the outcome.

Basically all me and my friends will be left to do is open world PvP, but OWPvP is almost broken atm with the insane level/gear advantage you get just from 1 level/gear tier. This means that if we want to get to the balanced PvP we're going to need to hit max level...but if we want to level and get good gear we're just going to have to quest grind all and run dungeons a thousand times like PvEers.

It just pains me that the game has such an awesome combat system and PvP mechanics but has absolutly nothing meaningful connected to the PvP.

How do other PvPers feel about this?

Most pvp'rs will tell you straight up the reward for open world pvp is the satisfaction of killing your foe. I know that sounds harsh but I use to be wanting some sort of reward for pvp and people would tell me it is the satisfaction of the kill. Well they were right because even with not gaining a thing I love to pvp and kill people. We are talking people my level too. I would rather open world pvp then be stuck doing glorified kill trading in an instance aka a BG.

Yup. And the guy complaining about BG's not being in. You are the minority with the Tera community. Check the forums...every complaint thread is destroyed by people who actually know what PvP is all about. Keep your instanced trash out of our games.

If you want a fair fight, use the Death Match system. But sorry...your reward driven BG's will probably never see the light of day in Tera. Maybe on PVE servers, but PvP the community of Tera won't have it.

Consensus, I'm glad that you openly admitted your lack of skill and your love of GW2, but I'm afraid you negated your own post.  Nobody that is genuinely interested in Tera's PvP is going to listen to people who don't understand how Tera's PvP works.  To a player with no skill, everything is going to seem broken in a skill-based PvP. Working As Intended!

Frankly you guys need to stop embarrasing yourselves, the major complaint is that people 3-5 levels higher than you  are beating you.  I was playing and I got killed by a guy 8 levels higher than me, but it took me all of 2hrs to get to his level, and since players that run around ganking others don't get exp, it's not hard to catch up to levels with someone that ganked you.

"PvPers" that find this simple concept as learning how to play too much work and hope that with enough QQ EME will change the PvP to cater to them.  But too many MMOs have had their PvP ruined by players like that.  Even the OP who started this argument was able to put 2+2 together that the PvP gets better as you level up, but a lot of people are regurgitating the same argument like there's no simple fix.

If people want to talk PvP and have questions about Tera's PvP, I'm all open for discussion, but if people are going to turn on Outlaw and get beat up, and then cry this is the only PvP Tera has the offer, then your post isn't worth the time it takes to read it.

Edit: @ Beacker & Vunak23.  Finally some voices of reasons!  I can finally be on my way.

This whole debacle has put in question if I will get this game or not. I mean I like the combat system and the GFX looks awesome but one of the main features I am looking for in an MMORPG is PvP and now that I heard that the open world PvP has no point and that there wont be any instanced PvP battlegrounds this game seems to have weaker PvP component than even SW:TOR.

So I think I will take a wait and see approach... maybe even reactivate SW:TOR to get some PvP action.

Originally posted by Yamota

This whole debacle has put in question if I will get this game or not. I mean I like the combat system and the GFX looks awesome but one of the main features I am looking for in an MMORPG is PvP and now that I heard that the open world PvP has no point and that there wont be any instanced PvP battlegrounds this game seems to have weaker PvP component than even SW:TOR.

So I think I will take a wait and see approach... maybe even reactivate SW:TOR to get some PvP action.

Yes it is true that open world PvP does not reward tokens or grant exp.  Instead they free the players of that grind and replace it with just having fun,  nothing more nothing less.

But like you I would like to see some sort of objectives for owpvp,  seiges or land grabs but that might be too much to ask for.  Instead I will settle for what it will become,  and that will be rivalries between guilds & open war at end game.

@Yamota / all:

I found this two quotes in a recent PvP thread in the official forum:

"We want more people to enjoy the battlegrounds than KTERA and we want the battlegrounds system to be fair to everyone by starting out with the improved system. Something we have to consider carefully especially because there are PvP item rewards from battlegrounds that once earned, will continue to be effective. In the meantime we have duels, deathmatches, Nexus, GvG and open world PvP."

"When we launch the improved battlegrounds system, we want to make sure that the battlegrounds system will be good and fair for everyone. Because there are PvP item rewards, it is especially important to get it right from the beginning.

We are also working to bring GvG on PvE servers as well."

Topic was "No BGs until late summer this year" (German forums)

Edit: The Nexus seems to be PvE content.