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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I miss playing an MMo with a fully open world and no loading screens..

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97 posts found
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

3/31/12 10:06:57 AM#61
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Fargol

Regarding dungeons - honestly, I can't see how non-instanced dungeons could work. Wouldn't there be piles of players/parties standing around waiting for the boss to spawn, everyone's fingers on the targetting key so their group would be the first to tag him?

Stop thinking in terms of WOW. That's not the only way to make MMO content. :)

Log into L2, UO or AC and you can see players picking a section of the dungeon and doing their own thing - plenty of dungeon to go around with plenty of different levels of content so you can throttle your challenge and adjust for group size even within the same dungeon.

Given that many games only have 5000 players on a server, if everyone is in the same dungeon that is a failure of game design. I agree that some people haven't played enough non WoW MMOs to understand how things can be different. Although I would be interested to see a dungeon which could intentionally host 5000 players. Well, maybe less because lag.

 

That's a rather extreme situation you present and I'm not even sure there is more than maybe one or two MMOs that would apply to.

Most MMO servers only hold about 2,500 and few come near that cap after the first month.  Even then, if a developer has 2.5k players logged into their server and everyone on the server is all piled into one dungeon, then I'd say something went horribly wrong in either game design or world building. :)

 

  gu357u53r

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 117

3/31/12 10:07:56 AM#62

Isn't a good chunk of Vanguard Saga of Heroes open world?  Don't they also have world dungeons?  I never really got to immerse myself in the game as by the time I got to it the population was gone.

  OberanMiM

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 237

3/31/12 10:12:36 AM#63
Originally posted by gu357u53r

Isn't a good chunk of Vanguard Saga of Heroes open world?  Don't they also have world dungeons?  I never really got to immerse myself in the game as by the time I got to it the population was gone.

 

All of vanguard is pretty much open world. I guess you could "almost" call the "Ancient Port Warehouse" an instanced zone (but it really isn't instanced as it is big enough for several raids at a time & there are 4 copies of it (basically 4 zones which are exact copies of eachother but no restrictions on entering them aside from having one leveling sphere at 50+ and having completed an open world roaming boss mob quest)

The only times you really see loading screens in vanguard is if you teleport, goto a different continent or go into the "Ancient Port Warehouse" (as it puts you into one of the 4 but you can always zone out and back in to get into a different one)

  nateslo

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/09
Posts: 43

3/31/12 10:31:46 AM#64

@ BartDaCat

I understand the points you raise about open world content, but I think the "problems" were what made the game fun. The risk of a ninja looter coming and stealing your mob might have made you mad, but they made it EXCITING and kept you on your guard. ( A solution to this it to have open pvp and kill that ******). I've camped mobs for days on end and it's been some of the most memorable experiences I've ever had in a game. 

The long and arduous corpse runs associated with non instanced dungeons meant that you had better not mess up because if you do, it's probably going to break up the group.  These unpleasantries gave the game consequences. They gave more depth to the game, giving people more to do than just zone into a dungeon and clear it. You had to think and plan and work together. It was more about the dungeon running experience than quickly getting to the loot at the end. Most of the times in an EQ dungeon you wouldn't get any loot at all and you were just there for the experience because reaching max level took YEARS. 

It's just a different type of experience. If people want a regulated, controlled experience free from struggle and conflict with other players then they will get a game that is instanced and safe but it definetly won't feel alive and dynamic. 

 

  deathangell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 86

3/31/12 10:34:34 AM#65

Well maybe with the release of stronger servers this will become possible again but the issue was that graphics wer ebeing pushed farther then servers could take the load. Thus causing them to run instances aka a way to be able to put the load on a seperate server to help with the strain. We know this is the case cause sometimes games liek wow a side of the world goes down but not the entire game.

  Comaf

Elite Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1090

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

3/31/12 10:35:00 AM#66

I could be wrong but I believe Vanguard Saga of Heroes (SIgil, Sony) had a seamless world.

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

3/31/12 10:37:52 AM#67
Originally posted by Sarariel

Does anyone else miss that?

Like the old WoW.. No loading screens for the inn's or zone changes. Just a change of weather and music.

Really Vanilla WoW had no loading screens? There has never been a MMO without some kind of loading screen but WoW had a lot of loading screens at launch. I thought you would have atleast mentioned AC, EQ, Shadowbane or something with very minor loading screens.

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

3/31/12 10:40:09 AM#68
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Fargol

Regarding dungeons - honestly, I can't see how non-instanced dungeons could work. Wouldn't there be piles of players/parties standing around waiting for the boss to spawn, everyone's fingers on the targetting key so their group would be the first to tag him?

Stop thinking in terms of WOW. That's not the only way to make MMO content. :)

Log into L2, UO or AC and you can see players picking a section of the dungeon and doing their own thing - plenty of dungeon to go around with plenty of different levels of content so you can throttle your challenge and adjust for group size even within the same dungeon.

Given that many games only have 5000 players on a server, if everyone is in the same dungeon that is a failure of game design. I agree that some people haven't played enough non WoW MMOs to understand how things can be different. Although I would be interested to see a dungeon which could intentionally host 5000 players. Well, maybe less because lag.

 

That's a rather extreme situation you present and I'm not even sure there is more than maybe one or two MMOs that would apply to.

Most MMO servers only hold about 2,500 and few come near that cap after the first month.  Even then, if a developer has 2.5k players logged into their server and everyone on the server is all piled into one dungeon, then I'd say something went horribly wrong in either game design or world building. :)

 

You know I said intentionally host that many players right? EvE has some 3000 person battles.

Maybe a Hell Gate spawned in a cavern system from a random event and all the players have to go there to fight off the demon hordes.

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 982

3/31/12 10:47:22 AM#69
Originally posted by DarkPony
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by DarkPony

Yeah, I miss that as well. One of the reasons SWTOR didn't stuck with me. Every loading screen is like a pair of scissors snipping your umbilical cord of immersion. V_V

Do you think of elevators as loading screens in the real world?

j/k.

No :) At least elevators move physically and actually save you time from walking stairs.

Long queues at grocery stores or traffic jams are much worse V_V

 

 Just want to say Pony thanks for helping me shoot beer out of my nose. i allways loved your sigs and this is the first time i have seen this one. made me lol

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

3/31/12 11:01:58 AM#70
Originally posted by Cuathon

Maybe a Hell Gate spawned in a cavern system from a random event and all the players have to go there to fight off the demon hordes.

In a scenario such as that - Hellgate opens and, well, all hell breaks loose - it is far better to have multiple staging points for the event as the goal would be to balance 'epic' with the ability to participate. Resource issues aside, when there are too many mobs and players it often becomes to chaotic for the players to meaningfully participate or to feel genuinely engaged.

I don't know how many games have tried it, but it seems that having dev characters either leading or aiding the leaders of the players would bring more structure to the experience, at which point events or occurrences where you have 1k or more players together would probably be a lot more engaging and fun.

  FrostWyrm

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1028

3/31/12 11:04:41 AM#71
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Cuathon

Maybe a Hell Gate spawned in a cavern system from a random event and all the players have to go there to fight off the demon hordes.

In a scenario such as that - Hellgate opens and, well, all hell breaks loose - it is far better to have multiple staging points for the event as the goal would be to balance 'epic' with the ability to participate. Resource issues aside, when there are too many mobs and players it often becomes to chaotic for the players to meaningfully participate or to feel genuinely engaged.

I don't know how many games have tried it, but it seems that having dev characters either leading or aiding the leaders of the players would bring more structure to the experience, at which point events or occurrences where you have 1k or more players together would probably be a lot more engaging and fun.

Reminds me of the giant Xmas treant from FFXI. Wandered around different zones, and anyone could attack it at any time. Every server that managed to kill one unlocked something...I forget what. Some kind of teleports I think.

  Sarariel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 209

 
OP  3/31/12 11:12:35 AM#72
Originally posted by Keogh

If you are serious about a large zone-less MMO, and can pull yourselves away from lighting bolts, dragons and elves for a moment, go look at WWIIOL.

 
http://www.battlegroundeurope.com/
 
Set in World War II Western Europe, WWII Online: Battleground Europe is a realistic MMO featuring a zone-less map (a ½ scale map of Western Europe with 30000 km2 or 11583 sq mi ).  where battles rage for days and campaigns for weeks. Over 100 weapons and vehicles accurately modeled and utilizing military-grade physics.
 
Not  another arcade-style WWII shooter. The advanced physics and ballistics systems create a military-grade WWII simulation.
 
A proprietary physics engine powers an advanced, component-based damage model for vehicles that simulates the actual components found in WWII units. In addition, we accurately model armor thickness down to the millimeter and flight models for aircraft down to every surface and control for a true-to-life simulation. Even the ballistics are precisely and accurately modeled for each type of round in the game. All of these elements provide realism, creating a skill-based simulation where players must learn to properly employ the weapons and equipment available.

 

WWIIOL is ten years old. I played this for the first five years it was out.

 

The map is large, and your actions do make a real diffrence in the outcome of campaigns that can last for weeks or even months. It's all on one server and played 24/7 by people from all over the world.

 

 

The game was too glitchy and the company that owns it is terrible. I'll be trying planetside 2 though :3 exactly the same but set in the future 6-^

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

3/31/12 11:14:11 AM#73
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Cuathon

Maybe a Hell Gate spawned in a cavern system from a random event and all the players have to go there to fight off the demon hordes.

In a scenario such as that - Hellgate opens and, well, all hell breaks loose - it is far better to have multiple staging points for the event as the goal would be to balance 'epic' with the ability to participate. Resource issues aside, when there are too many mobs and players it often becomes to chaotic for the players to meaningfully participate or to feel genuinely engaged.

I don't know how many games have tried it, but it seems that having dev characters either leading or aiding the leaders of the players would bring more structure to the experience, at which point events or occurrences where you have 1k or more players together would probably be a lot more engaging and fun.

Reminds me of the giant Xmas treant from FFXI. Wandered around different zones, and anyone could attack it at any time. Every server that managed to kill one unlocked something...I forget what. Some kind of teleports I think.

Well I said a cavern system didn't I? That could allow for say a surface to center, multiple underground chokepoints, reserves and so forth.

Functioning as an army defending the world from hell it would be pretty good to have a political structure formed during less instense parts of the game. Guild leaders and kingdom leaders would organize a hierarchy after early reports of demons, then you might assign various guilds or kingdoms to various tasks.

  Jockan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 3992

3/31/12 11:17:47 AM#74
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by Mannish

Lineage 2 still has the best I have seen. Just recently went back and started over from scratch. Its a grind type game so if you into those try it.

Well.. maybe my memories betray me here, but if i remember right, you got a loading screen for any city/dungeon, it wasnt really any different as the most mmorpg at this time, and not really better or even outstanding. But hell, it is a long time ago i played that.. and i am not 100% sure of it.

 

I think you probaly talking about the wrong game. Cities, towns and dungeons never had loading screens in Lineage 2. They are free for anybody on the server to come and go as they wish. 

  Thunderheart

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 9

3/31/12 11:18:14 AM#75
Originally posted by Dolmong

Oh man, I really miss Asheron's Call !!!!!!

The best open world no loading times and no specific class MMO back in the days!

I agree completely with you!

  UtukuMoon

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1103

3/31/12 11:26:08 AM#76
Originally posted by punkrock

Vanguard saga of heros and AC are the only two i can think of that is not insta*or heavy insta*  i tell ya i was in a cave in vanguard today and it felt so real and alive. It was awesome.  The exit of the cave going into thhe world just made it feel so real and the fact that the cave monsters kept running after me when i was out was funny to lol.

What cave were you in or dungeon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ymgFyzbDo

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

3/31/12 1:50:45 PM#77
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Cuathon

Maybe a Hell Gate spawned in a cavern system from a random event and all the players have to go there to fight off the demon hordes.

In a scenario such as that - Hellgate opens and, well, all hell breaks loose - it is far better to have multiple staging points for the event as the goal would be to balance 'epic' with the ability to participate. Resource issues aside, when there are too many mobs and players it often becomes to chaotic for the players to meaningfully participate or to feel genuinely engaged.

I don't know how many games have tried it, but it seems that having dev characters either leading or aiding the leaders of the players would bring more structure to the experience, at which point events or occurrences where you have 1k or more players together would probably be a lot more engaging and fun.

Reminds me of the giant Xmas treant from FFXI. Wandered around different zones, and anyone could attack it at any time. Every server that managed to kill one unlocked something...I forget what. Some kind of teleports I think.

Was the tree dev  controlled  or an NPC? Free Realms has a 'Cakenstein' NPC and AC's dev-played Baelzheron(sp?) both draw large crowds and they each counter the lag/chaos issue differently. Cakenstein is rather quickly defeatable and respawns again rather quickly as well. BaelZheron is usually scheduled but not widely advertised prior so as to limit the crowd. The open worlds of both games really contribute a lot to the roaming/travel experience as it allows for a broader playing field for events and encounters.

  Goll25

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/10
Posts: 183

3/31/12 1:54:46 PM#78
Originally posted by Sarariel

Does anyone else miss that?

Like the old WoW.. No loading screens for the inn's or zone changes. Just a change of weather and music.

Wow is still like this but no one takes advantage of it, and blizz gives no incentive. Last night me and a few pals went causing havok around the world on my server, and also taking in the beauty of some of the zone (especially in northerend). The only time you need loading screens in changing continents or to the outlands really. You can still explore on your own. 

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3663

RIP City of Heroes!

3/31/12 4:28:38 PM#79
Originally posted by DrunkWolf
Originally posted by DarkPony
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by DarkPony

Yeah, I miss that as well. One of the reasons SWTOR didn't stuck with me. Every loading screen is like a pair of scissors snipping your umbilical cord of immersion. V_V

Do you think of elevators as loading screens in the real world?

j/k.

No :) At least elevators move physically and actually save you time from walking stairs.

Long queues at grocery stores or traffic jams are much worse V_V

 

 Just want to say Pony thanks for helping me shoot beer out of my nose. i allways loved your sigs and this is the first time i have seen this one. made me lol

Dark Pony's Hornets Nest sig is great!

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4036

3/31/12 4:32:40 PM#80

FFXI was an extremely immersive game world to me yet it had loading screens between zones.  It "felt" like an open world to me, more so than any game after it. 

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