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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » In WvW, siege weapons cost gold. Gems buyers have a WvW advantage

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606 posts found
  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

3/30/12 5:09:41 PM#521
Originally posted by Betakodo
Originally posted by st4t1ck

How are they price gouging for the CE.  Its something extra that if you feel is worth it you buy it, if you dont feel its worth it you dont.

they've always stated cs was similar to gw1 which it is besides the gem -> gold

CE and DE has an elite skill you can only get from those editions. Normal eds, you don't start with an elite skill, again a WvW win conflict. There's also Influence and PvP reward boost in those editions. I don't really care about the price, it's the fact that an elite skill in what was supposed to be a fair PvP focused game series is only obtainable in CE or DE.

The cash shop was not similar to the GW1 cash shop the majority of players had because the cash shop crap was added after the game died.

It has been stated time and time again by the developers that racial elite skills and the CE/DE elite skill will be weaker than class elite skills. The CE/DE skill is mostly flavor and if you're going to use it instead of a class elite, you're probably gimping your character.

The rest of the stuff is one time use abilities. Hardly overpowered.

  st4t1ck

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/10
Posts: 585

3/30/12 6:38:54 PM#522
Originally posted by Betakodo
Originally posted by st4t1ck

How are they price gouging for the CE.  Its something extra that if you feel is worth it you buy it, if you dont feel its worth it you dont.

they've always stated cs was similar to gw1 which it is besides the gem -> gold

CE and DE has an elite skill you can only get from those editions. Normal eds, you don't start with an elite skill, again a WvW win conflict. There's also Influence and PvP reward boost in those editions. I don't really care about the price, it's the fact that an elite skill in what was supposed to be a fair PvP focused game series is only obtainable in CE or DE.

The cash shop was not similar to the GW1 cash shop the majority of players had because the cash shop crap was added after the game died.

In no way or form does it say you can use that elite skill at level 1.  you dont unlock the slot for your elite skill until level 30. and if its anything like "the hounds of bathazar" or however you spell it, or any other racilal elite for that matter it will be for show.  

the other 2 i can see your issue but im fine with them the way the game is set up. if it was like Aion for instance and gave you abyss points, or any other game with PVP gear that has PVP % on them i would be worried

  Betakodo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 339

 
OP  3/31/12 2:56:47 PM#523

Source on the devs repeatedly saying the CE elite skill is an underpowered version of racials please? Never seen that one before.

Wouldn't really trust in their word anymore, considering on the PC gamer interview about microtransactions/gems they try justifying that stuff because GW2 is oh so like a F2P game, except you pay for it and make up various excuses. They don't mention the paying part though. One of their big excuses is that we gotta play together because we're friends, but friend A doesn't play often! What can we do but add gems and microtransactions?! I thought scaling down/sidekicking fixes that.

  User Deleted
3/31/12 3:22:49 PM#524
Originally posted by Betakodo

Source on the devs repeatedly saying the CE elite skill is an underpowered version of racials please? Never seen that one before.

I haven't seen any confirmation that the Deluxe Edition Elite skill is an underpowered version of a racial, it seems a speculation.  It's certainly not going to be more powerful than another elite.  It might just be a modified version of Hounds of Balthazar but to give one wolf. http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/gw2-human-elite-skill-hounds-balthazar/

 

Everyone says racial elites cannot be used in Structured PVP but I can't seem to track down the original quote that says that. If that is the case, it makes sense that the Mistfire Wolf would not be allowed in Structured PVP either.

 

I did find this which speaks to the power level of the racials themselves.

http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/250/guild-wars-2-developer-interview/1

The most recent trailer showed us GW2's five races. Does each race have unique abilities, and how important will they be when choosing a character?

Eric Flannum: Each of the five races has unique skills available to them. Our philosophy behind the design of these racial skills is that they are slightly weaker than equivalent skills determined by profession. While they may be less powerful, the racial skills capture the flavor of each race and provide additional options for the player. For example, a human playing a profession that normally doesn’t have a good way of dealing with conditions could take the “Prayer to Kormyr” racial skill, which removes a condition but is a fair bit weaker than comparable skills provided by a profession specializing in condition removal. By doing this, we hope to give the various races access to skills that make them feel unique without making them overpowered when played as a particular profession.
 

 

  Kalfer

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 791

3/31/12 4:03:31 PM#525
Originally posted by Betakodo

Source on the devs repeatedly saying the CE elite skill is an underpowered version of racials please? Never seen that one before.

Wouldn't really trust in their word anymore, considering on the PC gamer interview about microtransactions/gems they try justifying that stuff because GW2 is oh so like a F2P game, except you pay for it and make up various excuses. They don't mention the paying part though. One of their big excuses is that we gotta play together because we're friends, but friend A doesn't play often! What can we do but add gems and microtransactions?! I thought scaling down/sidekicking fixes that.

side kicking and down scaling does not fix that. It just allows you to play with friends. 

 

The cash shop allows you to buy conveniences. It's just an added luxury.  For most people it defeats the purpose of the game. Fast forwarding through the dynamic events, serves no purpose. Only if all you are about is WvWvW at lvl 80.

But you can level to lvl 80 by strictly doing WvW. 

 

 

 

They are only doing what they did in GW1. You bought skill packs which was took hundreds of hours. Nobody cared, because the fun and challenge of the game, was to collect those skills. Same here. buying experiences boosts, and whatever... it has no hindering on the player.

All this is, is people who care about what other people do with their time and money. If they started focusing on themselves, then maybe they wouldn't sound like such unhappy gamers who complain about the most silly things:(

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

3/31/12 4:09:39 PM#526
Originally posted by Cinge
Originally posted by romanator0

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supply

Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.

Not really roadblock, your side is going to want to hold/keep supply objectivies anyhow(to upgrade keeps, rebuild  doors etc).

 

His point still stands, someone who buys gems with $  and trades to gold can buy more Seige weapons, thus a advantage without any "in-game" progression or play.

 

Its funny watching all the people with GW2 sigs race to white knight any thread/post that may even be a "Slight" negative towards the game.

 

Funny, mostly I see them racing to correct the vast amount of misinformation and the idiots who are spewing it without a thought for doing any research on their own.  /shrug   Guess I just don't perceive the responses the same way you do.  I left my under the bridge dweller goggles on my desk.  Shucks.

 

Guess we'll all just see how it comes out in the wash.  Personally, I'm not convinced that Anet will ruin their game by being less than stringent with their cash shop.  But time will tell.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  Kalfer

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 791

3/31/12 4:12:35 PM#527
Originally posted by VowOfSilence
Originally posted by cali59

Regarding GW2, Mike O'Brien, the founder of the company

 

Btw founder: O'Brian is 1 out of 3 founders. The other 2 founders went to work at NCwest to control the production of GW2, ArenaNet was almost independent at that time. Not even a year later both left the company under mysterious circustances. Jeff Strain, who was the visionary and is generally awesome, took like a dozen employees with him and started a new company, Undead Labs. With a different publisher. 2nd guy left 1 month later and now works on TERA (!). The old PR guy quit at the same time. NCwest was hit by layoffs, and control has been back with NCsoft ever since.

So, yeah... ArenaNet can promise all sorts of things, but the publisher gets to call the shots in the end. Especially when NCsoft owns ArenaNet. Just saying.

NCsoft has not been the best company, but from what I have seen, they left ArenaNet alone during GW1's days. That's impossible to say for sure, because none of us work there, or know the internal interplay between them.

 

But if you look at fiscals from GW1 to lets say 2010 - It's easy to see that in EU/US and most places outside of Korea/China/Japan, (Brazil, India, Taiwan, Phillippines, and several others...) Guild Wars was a steady money stream.

 

NCsoft lost A LOT. A lot. Even before the recession, on failures like Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa. Lineage 2 never got big outside of Asia(or more specifically Korea) and TERA has been run into the ground with legal issues about Lineage 3 code.

 

Another interesting fact - They announced GW2 just when they started working on it. This is very unusual. Normally you announce a game with a trailer or in-game screenshots, but they announced it just as they started working on it. I think it tells you something about about NCsoft really having given them legs to do their thing. 

 

I really don't think it's that different when it comes to Blizzard. Gamers like to cast blame on everyone, but I don't think Acti is anymore greedy than Vivendi was. People want to seperate everything into good and evil and black and white. It ain't that simple. 

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

3/31/12 7:37:33 PM#528
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Cinge
Originally posted by romanator0

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supply

Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.

Not really roadblock, your side is going to want to hold/keep supply objectivies anyhow(to upgrade keeps, rebuild  doors etc).

 

His point still stands, someone who buys gems with $  and trades to gold can buy more Seige weapons, thus a advantage without any "in-game" progression or play.

 

Its funny watching all the people with GW2 sigs race to white knight any thread/post that may even be a "Slight" negative towards the game.

 

Funny, mostly I see them racing to correct the vast amount of misinformation and the idiots who are spewing it without a thought for doing any research on their own.  /shrug   Guess I just don't perceive the responses the same way you do.  I left my under the bridge dweller goggles on my desk.  Shucks.

 

Guess we'll all just see how it comes out in the wash.  Personally, I'm not convinced that Anet will ruin their game by being less than stringent with their cash shop.  But time will tell.

That's the funny thing about life.

Two people can look at the same thing and both see different things. It all depends on your point of view.

  Homitu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2045

3/31/12 7:51:22 PM#529

 

The following is all you need to consider when deciding whether or not this can possibly create an unfair advantage:

A) Gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  They simply transfer gold already generated in-game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.

B) Even if gem > gold transactions did magically infuse gold into the pockets of gold buyers (which they don't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  

C) Gold buyers do and always will exist regardless of this system.  Though they still have nothing to do with creating an advantage in the particular situation of WvW seige weapon purchasing for reasons A and B explained above, this point simply serves to illustrate that GW2's gem > gold system changes nothing in this regard.   

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1144

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

3/31/12 9:03:35 PM#530
Originally posted by Betakodo

Prices - http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Blueprints-ventor.png

What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).

For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.

Ugh, how did I miss this?  I was going to play because it looked like a fun game (not an mmorpg but a fun game) with very little time investment.  But no way, not this.  

  fiontar

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3713

3/31/12 9:17:16 PM#531
Originally posted by Homitu

 

The following is all you need to consider when deciding whether or not this can possibly create an unfair advantage:

A) Gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  They simply transfer gold already generated in-game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.

B) Even if gem > gold transactions did magically infuse gold into the pockets of gold buyers (which they don't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  

C) Gold buyers do and always will exist regardless of this system.  Though they still have nothing to do with creating an advantage in the particular situation of WvW seige weapon purchasing for reasons A and B explained above, this point simply serves to illustrate that GW2's gem > gold system changes nothing in this regard.   

A big clarification on B above. You can only trade Gold for Gems on the in-game Marketplace. The Marketplace is not server wide, it is cross server and global! No server will have an advantage on Gold/Gem trading, (supply,demand or pricing), because all transactions are on a Global Marketplace.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marketplace

The marketplace is the Guild Wars 2 player trading system. It is global, enabling trade between players on different servers.[1] It can be used to sell and buy items without the need to find a buyer or seller first. While items can only be put up for sale when in-game, it is possible to browse, bid, or cancel auctions and offers when out of-game and logged into a web browser. A sale can be completed whilst the seller is offline, with the coin going into an account bank.[2]

The marketplace is capable of displaying the history and trends of item values.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  User Deleted
3/31/12 9:37:33 PM#532


Originally posted by Homitu
 
The following is all you need to consider when deciding whether or not this can possibly create an unfair advantage:
A) Gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  They simply transfer gold already generated in-game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.
B) Even if gem > gold transactions did magically infuse gold into the pockets of gold buyers (which they don't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  
C) Gold buyers do and always will exist regardless of this system.  Though they still have nothing to do with creating an advantage in the particular situation of WvW seige weapon purchasing for reasons A and B explained above, this point simply serves to illustrate that GW2's gem > gold system changes nothing in this regard.   

A) It really doesn't matter though. Every MMO I have ever played has an infinite amount of gold. Every time a mob spawns, is killed and looted, that is gold that is "magically infused" and if people are doing it 10x harder to buy gems...well it kinda does spawn gold. Gems will make people farm it that much harder and faster and sooner than it would otherwise be acquired, GW2 will be flooded with more gold and faster than it would if there was no RMT conversions.

B) In all likelihood, most realms will probably hover around the same number of RMT transactions....or at least maintain a percentage based on server populations. With exceptions being if a particular server gets one of those infamous big spender gamers.

C) The question should not be IF gold farmers/sellers exist. But how many? Yep, they existed in WoW, I never met many. Most of the guys I knew didn't want to risk a ban. But when I played Anarchy Online after they implemented their cash shop with RMT, guess how many People I knew who would buy items and resell in game for RMT currency? Everyone. Yep Everyone was doing it. So there is a HUGE difference on the impact of the economy based on the percentage of people engaging in RMT.

I believe that since A and B were not properly evaluated, I am not sure how it changes nothing.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

3/31/12 10:30:35 PM#533

Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.

The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.

  User Deleted
3/31/12 11:07:25 PM#534


Originally posted by heartless
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.

It's Beta

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/31/12 11:22:03 PM#535
Originally posted by heartless

Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.

The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.

To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them.  It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.

There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious.  It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.

The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys.  That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

3/31/12 11:22:23 PM#536
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

 


Originally posted by heartless
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.


 

It's Beta

That works both ways.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

3/31/12 11:28:22 PM#537
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by heartless

Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.

The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.

To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them.  It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.

There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious.  It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.

The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys.  That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.

The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.

  User Deleted
3/31/12 11:29:17 PM#538


Originally posted by heartless


Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 



Originally posted by heartless
Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.
The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.



 
It's Beta


That works both ways.

You are the one who said what is/isn't in them.
I didn't make any claim

Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?


  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/31/12 11:35:13 PM#539
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by heartless

Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.

The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.

To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them.  It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.

There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious.  It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.

The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys.  That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.

The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.

They really just need to ditch that mechanic in my opinion.  It is the most clear pay2win aspect of the game, no matter how "small" of an effect it is or claimed to be.  It is not hard to see the boosts that inflluence get you in RvRvR.  Having ability to purchase influence with gold, and then allowing purchase of gold with gems, is just too clear of a link of money->advantage.

It is my biggest issue by far with the game regarding pay2win.

My second biggest issue is the mystic keys which I just think are very crass, never said they were pay2win.  Those chests sitting in my inventory would just piss the crap out of me.

If they got rid of the gold->influence and the mystic keys, I might actually reconsider this game.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

3/31/12 11:46:24 PM#540
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by heartless

Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining.

The info can be found in this video at 9:28m.

To be honest that was one of the items where it didn't really matter what was in them.  It was just obnoxious to put these chests in the game, have the keys fall at a slower rate, and then make you go to cash shop to buy more keys in order to see what is in them.

There could be cosmetic pets in them it is still obnoxious.  It is basically an in-game advertisement to go to the cash shop.

The pay2win issue I have has nothing to do with the mystic keys.  That has more to do with the influence you can buy with gold which you can buy with gems.

The influence which can be purchased with gold is limited in use. You can't just spam it. Besides that, you get more influence by simply playing the game as pretty much everything you and your guild members do, earns influence.

They really just need to ditch that mechanic in my opinion.  It is the most clear pay2win aspect of the game, no matter how "small" of an effect it is or claimed to be.  It is not hard to see the boosts that inflluence get you in RvRvR.  Having ability to purchase influence with gold, and then allowing purchase of gold with gems, is just too clear of a link of money->advantage.

It is my biggest issue by far with the game regarding pay2win.

My second biggest issue is the mystic keys which I just think are very crass, never said they were pay2win.  Those chests sitting in my inventory would just piss the crap out of me.

If they got rid of the gold->influence and the mystic keys, I might actually reconsider this game.

It's not going to make a difference in the long run anyway. Any guild that is big enough to capture and defend the keep will be able to generate enough influence on it's own, without the need to resort to RMT.

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