See thread title.

So deep...

To be honest i think the whole pay to win slogan is skewing the cash shop debate.  

Exactly. Given the pretty limited selection of items in the cash shop, when compared to all the items available in game, I don't think ongoing demand for Gems is going to be as high as some seem to think. I've gone over this in the main Gem/Cash shop thread more than once in a lot of detail.

Supply/Demand will dictate Gem for Gold pricing. To assume limitless demand, which would make selling Gems for Gold consistantly quick, easy and economical, is just silly. People aren't going to spend Gold for Gems on the marketplace just for the heck of it. You buy Gems, either with Cash or with Gold, because you want something from the cash shop and for most players, purchases are going to be few and far between,

The exchange rate is further influenced by the value people place on their time. If $10 worth of Gems are selling for an amount of gold that would take 10 hours of game time to earn, for someone to make that trade they would have to value their time at only $1/hour. Not many takers at that exchange rate. It's possible that the game may be able to connect some buyers at that price level, those with a lot of disposable income and those who have no money but tons of free time, but there still has to be enough items on the cash shop the person flush with free time actually will want to buy for them to even want to support the Gem trade on an ongoing basis.

A lot of these P2W arguements rely on the assumption that Gold has a lot of value in the game. "See? You can buy influence for your guild with Gold. Gold really matters"! However, this doesn't support the P2W fears, it shoots holes in it. Why? Because the more uses and value gold has in game, the less likely players are to farm and trade Gold for Gems, which aside from some worthwhile one time purchases for things like Character Slots or Bank slots, or the occasional vanity purchase of armor skins, just doesn't buy you much via the Cash Shop!

If Gold is so useful in game, why the heck am I going to trade that gold, in any kind of volume, for Gems? It certainly won't be for the Cash Shop buffs!

Na.. buying gems with gold is Grind 2 Win

I always play to win.

What does that make me?

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Originally posted by BTrayaL
So deep...

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Originally posted by stragen001

Na.. buying gems with gold is Grind 2 Win

So playing GW2 will be an automatic win by your 'logic'  lol

Originally posted by stragen001

Na.. buying gems with gold is Grind 2 Win

And what exactly would those Gems you bought with your gold be buying you that help you "win"? If Gold is so valuable in game that allowing a Cash to Gems to Gold trade is imbalancing, then who the heck is going to trade that precious Gold for Gems, which buy them the occassional account services, cosmetic gear or painfully uneconomical buffs?

There is a circular logic that the "Chicken Little" crowd grumbling about "Gems for Gold = Win" just don't seem to grasp. Stop chasing your own tails for a minute, catch your breath and maybe understand that you are expending a lot of effort but not actually getting any where.

Why would there be a cash shop with things people didn't want in it? They want money, which is why they made it in the first place. Gems will be liquid (VALUABLE) for this reason, regardless of what the heavily biased lovers of GW2 will say. Buying gems with gold is "Have no cash and be forced to grind to get good stuff that should be in game".

Originally posted by Betakodo

 "Have no cash and be forced to grind to get good stuff that should be in game".

Forced to grind as opposed to... just having everything given to you for free?

Man, people are such carebears these days ;)

Time and Money

Those with more Time to play= less Money spent

Those with more Money to spend = less Time needed to play

Those with a lot of both = lucky/spoiled bastards!

Originally posted by Quizzical

See thread title.

Because I am a full time gamer I will be "Play 2 Win" Giving me an advantage over nearly the majority of most gamers.

Does that make it so others will stop playing because they wont ever put in more time of game play then me which means they wont be able to compete in the market or 1vs1 in PVP?  lol nope

The guild members I play with are full time gamers and all of us put in some serious time each week which puts us at a HIGH advantage over those who don't play half as much as we do.   We have more gold coming in, we have more experience with the game, we also get more open availablility if KEEPS or Castles are available.   This will give us such an advantage that it even might cause some to be so jealous they wont play the game.   That is how silly the argument about the p2w is in the cash shop currently.     I'll have more gold so I'll be able to buy more gems then most and possible corner the market on gem prices, when I see them dropping in price I can buy up the market and then resell at higher prices to determine the prices I want them in the market.   I will be the new meaning of P2W = Play 2 Win.  

Nothing in the cash shop will be needed for me to compete aggresively in any form of PVP within GW2.  And the fact that I'll have so much time spent in the game I'll have more gold available to me and there for more gems and it will equal out my guild vs others who just spend the money straight out.

I represent this post if "get paid to lose" = using my gold I get from the amount of game play I have and my guild members have who'll lose?  I think this will equal out my guild vs those who just spend money to get gems to get gold.  Seems like my version wins more then using my wallet to win. :D

If i'm totally off topic I apologize but I tried my best to stay on topic. >_<  

Fiontar can has a good point. Though it remains to be seen how much need there will be for stuff like boosts, bags, keys, transmutation stones and gambler bags. I think those could very well guarantee a steady demand for gems. But yeah, the need for gold seems much greater from what I've seen as well.

Might mean we haven't seen all of the CS yet at this time?

Might also mean that they keep the gold value of gems low, on purpose, so that people need to buy and sell more Gems to get the amount gold they need. Which isn't such a bad thing for them either, eh? Though too much supply could make them virtually worthless, ruining their cash shop ...

Hmm, yes ... I'm going with rapid cash shop expansion when the demand for gems ends up being too low compared to the need for gold.

Originally posted by stragen001

Na.. buying gems with gold is Grind 2 Win

So your argument is that participating in the gems market makes you win, regardless of whether you're buying or selling them?  What about people who don't use the gems market?  Do they win, too?

Originally posted by Betakodo

Why would there be a cash shop with things people didn't want in it? They want money, which is why they made it in the first place. Gems will be liquid (VALUABLE) for this reason, regardless of what the heavily biased lovers of GW2 will say. Buying gems with gold is "Have no cash and be forced to grind to get good stuff that should be in game".

That makes no sense. Which games sell character slots or account services in game for Gold? This system allows the person with spare Gold to make the occassional account services, (or even cosmetic item) purchase from the cash shop with out paying Cash, but this will hardly create enough demand for Gems on the in-game Marketplace to drive a high demand for Gems.

Even people with more free time will have a direct metric to decide on the value of such a trade. If I played twenty hours to earn enough Gold to purchase enough Gems for a $10 character slot, I have to really ask myself "Is my time really only worth 50 cents an hour"?

This is why prices are likely to balance out some where at or below the median determination of X Hours = Y Dollars. I say "at or below", because the actual demand for Gems should be limited enough that Gem sellers will need to sell for less than the translated value of "X Hours = Y Dollars" in order to entice people to buy.

All these threads are super duper pointless because gold means nothing. Does gold mean anything in WoW? No. Can you get epiczorz with goldz? No. The same thing is true here. In GW2 you will buy the epicz with karma. So automatically gold and gems suckZorZ?

There are already threads discussing this topic.

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