It is a valid concern (unlike a lot of junk threads here).

Hopefully will people who are bad stay in the open world, try to actually better themselves or quit the game.

So many games have lost the difficulty I personally prefer so anyone should be able to play them without too much work and that kinda takes away the feeling of achivement I get when I done something hard.

I hope the devs can say that those people just should avoid dungeons and harder zones instead of making the entire game easier but it might happen. On the other hand is it bad to worry about stuff that might happen.

Lol, I'd rather have some content unavailable to me because I'm not good enough player than just because I didn't have the stomach to crawl up the ass of some no-lifer l33t guild hitler.

Case in point.

Never again. Never!

... but seriously. The content that could concievably be unavailable to you because of your ubstandard skills is really limited. We're talking about explorable mode dungeons here and nothing else... and you will be able to see the dungeons themselves in the story mode anyway so... All the rest is open, regardless of your skill - Dynamic Events in the open world, WvW, Structured PvP (in your own league).. It's not like there is nothing to do after 80 unless you suck up to some disgusting l33t guild which will kindly take you to see what the game is really about.

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Lol, I'd rather have some content unavailable to me because I'm not good enough player than just because I didn't have the stomach to crawl up the ass of some no-lifer l33t guild hitler.

Case in point.

Never again. Never!

It is not that tough to quit the guild you know? not all guild leaders are leet no lifers. Leetness comes in different flavor. Just wait till GW2 launches you will see plenty of it.

I can see the concern here but look at how many MMOs in beta where challenging yet they made it easy at launch because of that. See it a number of times the last few years, great games in beta - easy mode at launch. Let's hope they don't do that here.

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Lol, I'd rather have some content unavailable to me because I'm not good enough player than just because I didn't have the stomach to crawl up the ass of some no-lifer l33t guild hitler.

Case in point.

Never again. Never!

It is not that tough to quit the guild you know? not all guild leaders are leet no lifers. Leetness comes in different flavor. Just wait till GW2 launches you will see plenty of it.

Yeah, of course. I expect pretty much the same players in GW2 as in WoW (gasp, yes, I said it). However, there won't be any requirement to suck up to people I don't like and organize my whole life around the game just because I want to experience the dungeons, which are pretty much the only content in WoW after max lvl.

In WoW I had a great guild made of RL friends and a bunch of cool, funny people we picked up on the way . It was loads of fun.. And then we realized that most of us A) had RL and B) are not that great players. However, there was nothing to do except "raid or die" as some nice Bliz dev once put it, and this great little guild eventually broke up. We had to choose between playing WoW as an expensive chat-room with nothing else to do, or play with no-lifer rude strangers just to be able to experience new content that we were actually paying money for. Disgusting situation and terrible game design that led to it. I grew to despise WoW and raiding because of it. I know this sounds melodramatic, but yes, I would love to spit on WoW's grave one day.

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Lol, I'd rather have some content unavailable to me because I'm not good enough player than just because I didn't have the stomach to crawl up the ass of some no-lifer l33t guild hitler.

Case in point.

Never again. Never!

... but seriously. The content that could concievably be unavailable to you because of your ubstandard skills is really limited. We're talking about explorable mode dungeons here and nothing else... and you will be able to see the dungeons themselves in the story mode anyway so... All the rest is open, regardless of your skill - Dynamic Events in the open world, WvW, Structured PvP (in your own league).. It's not like there is nothing to do after 80 unless you suck up to some disgusting l33t guild which will kindly take you to see what the game is really about.

I am pretty sure there will be some elite zones as well, GW1 have plenty of them but they might not be in from launch.

As much as I dislike not being able to 'progress' in gear and all, its also an issue that comes up on here. I am completely fine myself at games. On a game (won't mention, and no its not THAT big one) I main tank and yet with lesser gear I still am able to out damage others of my class that have far better gear. Its just something that has happened and I know full well (get ready for cockiness) I am just good at games in general. Could I use improvements? Sure. Is gear everything? No. 

GW2 will have issues with the skill gap associated with its content, primarily that of its 'harder' areas. That being said, I really don't see content beign too difficult in the game. None the less, people are notable for being terrible. Even with gear, those bad players still shine (or perhaps rust) at how they lack skill to play the game and gear is never an all saving factor. As much as people cry about gear making bad players do stuff they shouldn't be able to do, it only happens when the itemization curve is to insane. So long as the game doesn't make such an upward curve and the boosts stuff have is minor at best, it allows for improvement to a persons abilities while not serving to carry bad players.

Thats just me though inserting my "I dislike not having better gear obtainable' rant in. Either way, with or without it, bad players will be around and they will complain. No matter the handicap you give, it will never be enough to save bad players. I'd rather have the population dwindle to a small but steady number rather then have a mass influx of bad players crowding around and making stuff unnessisarily difficult for myself.

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Lol, I'd rather have some content unavailable to me because I'm not good enough player than just because I didn't have the stomach to crawl up the ass of some no-lifer l33t guild hitler.

Case in point.

Never again. Never!

It is not that tough to quit the guild you know? not all guild leaders are leet no lifers. Leetness comes in different flavor. Just wait till GW2 launches you will see plenty of it.

Yeah, of course. I expect pretty much the same players in GW2 as in WoW (gasp, yes, I said it). However, there won't be any requirement to suck up to people I don't like and organize my whole life around the game just because I want to experience the dungeons, which are pretty much the only content in WoW after max lvl.

In WoW I had a great guild made of RL friends and a bunch of cool, funny people we picked up on the way . It was loads of fun.. And then we realized that most of us A) had RL and B) are not that great players. However, there was nothing to do except "raid or die" as some nice Bliz dev once put it, and this great little guild eventually broke up. We had to choose between playing WoW as an expensive chat-room with nothing else to do, or play with no-lifer rude strangers just to be able to experience new content that we were actually paying money for. Disgusting situation and terrible game design that led to it. I grew to despise WoW and raiding because of it. I know this sounds melodramatic, but yes, I would love to spit on WoW's grave one day.

All i am saying is that leet and rude people are found in ever MMO. yes GW2 ha sno raids but what is stopping GL's from being an ass regardless? IMO its going to be even worse in 5 man dungeon groups when certain classes / builds would be preferred over others and people will be abused for not being skilled enough.

If you let these things get to you, there is not a single MMO you wouldn't hate.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Lol, I'd rather have some content unavailable to me because I'm not good enough player than just because I didn't have the stomach to crawl up the ass of some no-lifer l33t guild hitler.

Case in point.

Never again. Never!

... but seriously. The content that could concievably be unavailable to you because of your ubstandard skills is really limited. We're talking about explorable mode dungeons here and nothing else... and you will be able to see the dungeons themselves in the story mode anyway so... All the rest is open, regardless of your skill - Dynamic Events in the open world, WvW, Structured PvP (in your own league).. It's not like there is nothing to do after 80 unless you suck up to some disgusting l33t guild which will kindly take you to see what the game is really about.

I am pretty sure there will be some elite zones as well, GW1 have plenty of them but they might not be in from launch.

Well, the thing is that in those elite zones you'll be able to join other players and no one will ostracize you for it. If there is a l33t guild going off to kill Shaitan, my small guild of funny-men and  jokers will be able hop along for a ride and have fun... I won't have to suck up and kowtow to them so i can get "invited." There won't be some pimply 15-yo dictator telling me what I can or cannot play.

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Well, the thing is that in those elite zones you'll be able to join other players and no one will ostracize you for it. If there is a l33t guild going off to kill Shaitan, my small guild of funny-men and  jokers will be able hop along for a ride and have fun... I won't have to suck up and kowtow to them so i can get "invited." There won't be some pimply 15-yo dictator telling me what I can or cannot play.

True. And even if a zone or 2 are too hard for me I don't see that as a problem but as a challenge.

I actually want to have something to aim for, if I can complete everything in the game fast it loses it´s charm.

"Will Anet have to dumb down the game so everyone can complete the content?" 

Why would they do that? What are the unskilled going to do, cancel their account? It seems pretty clear to me that Anet is intent on a certain design philosophy for GW2. If some players can't learn, evolve, or just don't have the perseverance necessary to get through the content, so what? There's plenty of gear-grind games available.

I seriously doubt that just pure perserverance won't pretty much (eventually) win the day in most cases, as the luck of the draw will eventually end up with you and enough skillful players to get the job done. There's lots of players that even enjoy that sort of thing - you know, helping other people out who are having a hard time.

sigh posting it AGAIN so people might actually listen to it this time

HERE

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Originally posted by Ankur

snip...

Yeah, of course. I expect pretty much the same players in GW2 as in WoW (gasp, yes, I said it). However, there won't be any requirement to suck up to people I don't like and organize my whole life around the game just because I want to experience the dungeons, which are pretty much the only content in WoW after max lvl.

In WoW I had a great guild made of RL friends and a bunch of cool, funny people we picked up on the way . It was loads of fun.. And then we realized that most of us A) had RL and B) are not that great players. However, there was nothing to do except "raid or die" as some nice Bliz dev once put it, and this great little guild eventually broke up. We had to choose between playing WoW as an expensive chat-room with nothing else to do, or play with no-lifer rude strangers just to be able to experience new content that we were actually paying money for. Disgusting situation and terrible game design that led to it. I grew to despise WoW and raiding because of it. I know this sounds melodramatic, but yes, I would love to spit on WoW's grave one day.

All i am saying is that leet and rude people are found in ever MMO. yes GW2 ha sno raids but what is stopping GL's from being an ass regardless? IMO its going to be even worse in 5 man dungeon groups when certain classes / builds would be preferred over others and people will be abused for not being skilled enough.

If you start these things get to you, there is not a single MMO you wouldn't hate.

Well the only portion of the game where l33tism can rear its ugly head in a way that is restrictive to casual players is in explorable mode dungeons. And that's really not a big deal considering how much more endgame content this game has to offer, and the fact that story mode versions of these same dungeons are pretty easy, as I hear.

And it's ok, let the l33tists have their ball - they have the right to have fun as anybody else. The point I'm trying to make is that while there are going to be asshats in GW2 as in all mmos and RL actually, the game's design is not forcing you to suck up to them, unlike in WoW. In WoW you had no choice - if you said "no guys, i don't like this" you had nowhere else to go except out because there was nothing else. From what I gather, all gameplay modes in GW2 are completely optional - if you don't like to run around with "noobs" you can play explorable dungeons till your nose bleeds. If you don't like PvP, there's plenty of PvE to go around, etc, etc...

Originally posted by Dragonantis

Agreed, because of that, GW2 wont have the playerbase of the other hand holding MMO's.

But thats isnt a bad thing.

I disagree with you.  Because GW2 is not reliant on a one-trick-pony (Raiding) as the sole source of endgame I think GW2 will have an even bigger playerbase compared to a non-WoW MMO.

It look and sound quite hard on the Explorable Dungeon.

Here is 35 mins of GW2 Beta - Explorable Dungeon.

Also, they need to keep it skill based and challenging if they really want this game to make it as a Esport. Easy mode themepark gear games will never be a Esport at the level to be considered a Esport world wide.

Originally posted by Meleagar

"Will Anet have to dumb down the game so everyone can complete the content?" 

Why would they do that? What are the unskilled going to do, cancel their account? It seems pretty clear to me that Anet is intent on a certain design philosophy for GW2. If some players can't learn, evolve, or just don't have the perseverance necessary to get through the content, so what? There's plenty of gear-grind games available.

I seriously doubt that just pure perserverance won't pretty much (eventually) win the day in most cases, as the luck of the draw will eventually end up with you and enough skillful players to get the job done. There's lots of players that even enjoy that sort of thing - you know, helping other people out who are having a hard time.

It has happened before in other game so the concern is legitimate.

Heck, GW is easier now than a few years ago. That doesn't mean it will happen but it mean that we should protest on the official forum when cry-babies complain that the game is too hard.

The reasonit usually happen is that almost all people complain while the people who like it are content and don't say much. We should be careful with that both here and in other games.

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Originally posted by Ankur

snip...

Yeah, of course. I expect pretty much the same players in GW2 as in WoW (gasp, yes, I said it). However, there won't be any requirement to suck up to people I don't like and organize my whole life around the game just because I want to experience the dungeons, which are pretty much the only content in WoW after max lvl.

In WoW I had a great guild made of RL friends and a bunch of cool, funny people we picked up on the way . It was loads of fun.. And then we realized that most of us A) had RL and B) are not that great players. However, there was nothing to do except "raid or die" as some nice Bliz dev once put it, and this great little guild eventually broke up. We had to choose between playing WoW as an expensive chat-room with nothing else to do, or play with no-lifer rude strangers just to be able to experience new content that we were actually paying money for. Disgusting situation and terrible game design that led to it. I grew to despise WoW and raiding because of it. I know this sounds melodramatic, but yes, I would love to spit on WoW's grave one day.

All i am saying is that leet and rude people are found in ever MMO. yes GW2 ha sno raids but what is stopping GL's from being an ass regardless? IMO its going to be even worse in 5 man dungeon groups when certain classes / builds would be preferred over others and people will be abused for not being skilled enough.

If you start these things get to you, there is not a single MMO you wouldn't hate.

Well the only portion of the game where l33tism can rear its ugly head in a way that is restrictive to casual players is in explorable mode dungeons. And that's really not a big deal considering how much more endgame content this game has to offer, and the fact that story mode versions of these same dungeons are pretty easy, as I hear.

And it's ok, let the l33tists have their ball - they have the right to have fun as anybody else. The point I'm trying to make is that while there are going to be asshats in GW2 as in all mmos and RL actually, the game's design is not forcing you to suck up to them, unlike in WoW. In WoW you had no choice - if you said "no guys, i don't like this" you had nowhere else to go except out because there was nothing else. From what I gather, all gameplay modes in GW2 are completely optional - if you don't like to run around with "noobs" you can play explorable dungeons till your nose bleeds. If you don't like PvP, there's plenty of PvE to go around, etc, etc...

My bet is you wont see the bad attitudes in GW2 itself when they realize the gear wont carry them anymore. What you will see however, is those people coming out of the game and posting trash on every internet forum they see, trying to convince everyone how terrible that game is. 

There are going to be those people who have gotten used to being special based on thier gear alone. Even on these forums now we have people discussing how bad it is for any level to compete equally in the WvWvW. There are those, we all have seen them, who rush to cap as fast as they can, then farm everyone else in PvP for months, just because they have the gear before anyone else. Those people are already starting the rants on how GW2 system works, and it will only get worse as time goes on.

You will see this same thing coming soon on the PvE side as well.

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Also, they need to keep it skill based and challenging if they really want this game to make it as a Esport. Easy mode themepark gear games will never be a Esport at the level to be considered a Esport world wide.

Nah, I don't see that happen. But making the dungeons and DEs easier is not as unlikely.