Originally posted by Kost

Originally posted by rdrpappy

Open world is the pariah of twitch gamers who just wont let go of trying to convert rpgs into Halo.

Accurate.

Nice to see that someone around here gets it, props to you friend.

Open world is one of the most rpg elements you can get,  actual factions fighting not in pre designated areas with some pvp toggle.

Oh look my mortal enemy oh wait hes not pvp flagged -  well that didnt just ruin immersion did it.

Anywhoo wasnt that personally that made me unsub just found the whole game rather bland and boring and the combat pretty stale with the exception of 1 class.

Has nothing really to do with twitch gaming I dont really play FPS but I did enjoy open world pvp in the early sandbox MMO's and would like to see a game do it right again.    If UO, DAOC and hell even SWG to some degree could get it right over a decade ago why cant we now.

Oh yeah the children who play games now,  want everything on  a plate just as they do socially and in work with minimum effort,  lazy generation of spoiled brats.

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

UO may of hit the market before EQ, but it was scrambling to Trammal it up once they saw folks werent interested in forced PVP.

 

PVE rules MMO gaming. PVP is a side show attraction.

I am not disputing this fact, there are more than enough players though to make World PvP work. I am not against PvP, as I said, one of the allures is PvE content with lots of other players.

I am simply arguing against the idea that Open PvP is simply for Halo fans. Judging on his first reply after mine, he has no real argument, and simply spewing crap, like most trolls you find who realize they are wrong ;)

TH

Originally posted by Kost

Originally posted by rdrpappy

Open world is the pariah of twitch gamers who just wont let go of trying to convert rpgs into Halo.

Accurate.

Nice to see that someone around here gets it, props to you friend.

WHAT???

Consumer buys a product

Consumer doesnt like the product.

Consumer complains about the product.

Other consumers try to burn them at the stake for daring to either speak or think differently.

1 consumer is in the right...the rest are Nazi zombies.

Everyone has a right to demand a better product, everyone should demand better, its the consumer that drives the market, and it isnt for you to tell people what they should or should not like and your opinion of what is or is not good does not trump what they think.

So I guess it isnt THE players...its the PLAYERS. think about that one.

Originally posted by musicmann

 

Really, close to 500k subs in the beginning and around 250k subs that was maintained until the NGE. I mean, the Kauri server was always jammed packed at any time of the night or day during the pre-cu and cu era of the game for me. Kinda funny, i seen more people just hanging out in the Coronet cantina for about 30 minutes then i did the whole month and a half i spent in TOR. I guess you have what's called selective amnesia. If TOR has 1.7 million active subs i sure would love to know where they are, cause they are surely not playing the game.

The type of player that is enjoying TOR are out doing quests, warzones and flashpoints. When they are done they log off. They're not going to sit around a cantina and chat. I mean really dude, there's social networking sites for that type of thing and they don't charge a monthly sub.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Consumer buys a product

Consumer doesnt like the product.

Consumer complains about the product.

Other consumers try to burn them at the stake for daring to either speak or think differently.

1 consumer is in the right...the rest are Nazi zombies.

Everyone has a right to demand a better product, everyone should demand better, its the consumer that drives the market, and it isnt for you to tell people what they should or should not like and your opinion of what is or is not good does not trump what they think.

So I guess it isnt THE players...its the PLAYERS. think about that one.

Actually its more like...

Consumer follows development of product for two years

Other consumers tell him that this isn't the game for him

Consumer buys product anyway

As expected, consumer doesn't like it

Consumer then spends every day of his life trashing a product he should have never bought in the first place.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by musicmann

 

Really, close to 500k subs in the beginning and around 250k subs that was maintained until the NGE. I mean, the Kauri server was always jammed packed at any time of the night or day during the pre-cu and cu era of the game for me. Kinda funny, i seen more people just hanging out in the Coronet cantina for about 30 minutes then i did the whole month and a half i spent in TOR. I guess you have what's called selective amnesia. If TOR has 1.7 million active subs i sure would love to know where they are, cause they are surely not playing the game.

The type of player that is enjoying TOR are out doing quests, warzones and flashpoints. When they are done they log off. They're not going to sit around a cantina and chat. I mean really dude, there's social networking sites for that type of thing and they don't charge a monthly sub.

Originally posted by ktanner3

The type of player that is enjoying TOR are out doing quests, warzones and flashpoints. When they are done they log off. They're not going to sit around a cantina and chat. I mean really dude, there's social networking sites for that type of thing and they don't charge a monthly sub.

Way to not understand a thing.

MMORPGs are supposed to provide VARIED forms of gameplay. What you want is a single player game with online capabilities like Quake...oh wait, that is what TOR is. TOR doesnt even have the most basic MMORPG aspects, people standing around chatting, I dont know of any one other MMORPG that didnt have a major hub with a bunch of people just talking, even GW1 which was almost completely instanced still had a main hub jam packed with people talking.

I mean god damn man, you have to group, in mass to earn social points to buy gear meant for you to walk around and role play in!

Thats like rewarding PvP gear to people that stand around town emoting in mass!

its 100% unadulterated DERP!

Originally posted by jtcgs

So I guess it isnt THE players...its the PLAYERS. think about that one.

Publishers run models to see what is profitable in any given market. These models usually contain potential customer purchase history. 

So while I believe the player base is partially to blame for making uninformed purchases, I also believe (in this circumstance) that EA ran the models on old BW games, ie srpg, and figured they had a no brainer for success.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by ktanner3

The type of player that is enjoying TOR are out doing quests, warzones and flashpoints. When they are done they log off. They're not going to sit around a cantina and chat. I mean really dude, there's social networking sites for that type of thing and they don't charge a monthly sub.

Way to not understand a thing.

MMORPGs are supposed to provide VARIED forms of gameplay. What you want is a single player game with online capabilities like Quake...oh wait, that is what TOR is. TOR doesnt even have the most basic MMORPG aspects, people standing around chatting, I dont know of any one other MMORPG that didnt have a major hub with a bunch of people just talking, even GW1 which was almost completely instanced still had a main hub jam packed with people talking.

I mean god damn man, you have to group, in mass to earn social points to buy gear meant for you to walk around and role play in!

Thats like rewarding PvP gear to people that stand around town emoting in mass!

its 100% unadulterated DERP!

Um...it's called FLEETS and there are vast amounts of people using them.  I was just responding to the SWG fanboy that thinks just because there aren't crowds of nerds standing around a cantina that TOR is dead.

Originally posted by Shakes420

Publishers run models to see what is profitable in any given market. These models usually contain potential customer purchase history. 

So while I believe the player base is partially to blame for making uninformed purchases, I also believe (in this circumstance) that EA ran the models on old BW games, ie srpg, and figured they had a no brainer for success.

Which has nothing to do with the fact it was billed as an MMORPG and that MMORPG players expect MMORPG aspects or that fanboys are acting like they and only they get to voice their opinions or that people shouldnt say anything about the game unless its nice.

It was a worthy try though.

Hmm...so how about this...

I enjoy single player, story-driven RPGs like BG, Torment, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, etc.  And as a story-driven RPG, I felt SWTOR was horribly lacking and inferior to almost any decent single player story-driven RPG.

The pacing was terrible due to all the side-quests you get forced through.  The stories were overall mediocre, with only a few classes having interesting stories.  And despite the game taking a long time to beat, you don't really get all that much actual story...most of the game is spent on terrible, cliche side quests.

So...was it my lack of insight as a player that made me not like this game?

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by musicmann

 

Really, close to 500k subs in the beginning and around 250k subs that was maintained until the NGE. I mean, the Kauri server was always jammed packed at any time of the night or day during the pre-cu and cu era of the game for me. Kinda funny, i seen more people just hanging out in the Coronet cantina for about 30 minutes then i did the whole month and a half i spent in TOR. I guess you have what's called selective amnesia. If TOR has 1.7 million active subs i sure would love to know where they are, cause they are surely not playing the game.

The type of player that is enjoying TOR are out doing quests, warzones and flashpoints. When they are done they log off. They're not going to sit around a cantina and chat. I mean really dude, there's social networking sites for that type of thing and they don't charge a monthly sub.

I was making a point about how back in SWG pre NGE days, the servers were full and i seen more people in a 30 min span than in the whole almost 2 months i spent playing TOR. TOR feels like exactly how i think BIoware wanted it to feel. Like one of their SPRPG games with coop features. If that's your thing, there's many SPRPG games that don't charge a monthly sub.

Like i posted before. If Bioware wanted to screw up an IP, they should have used their own ME one. With all intent and purposes, this could very well be the last time LA ventures into the mmo genre. How sad of time this is for SW / mmoprg fans that wanted a deeper and more open/sandpark mmo and got a closed off, wielded on rails SP game. It's easy for mmorpg fans that love the fantasy theme to just move on to the next one that comes around. If you played WOW for any amount of time, you could switch to RIFT and now the upcoming GW2 and get that almost the same themefeeling. There's only been two SW mmo's and the first they screwed up and is shutdown and this new second one is just crap. So, if your a fan of SW and mmo's you should understand the passion and the reason behind the dislike for TOR.

Originally posted by musicmann

Like i posted before. If Bioware wanted to screw up an IP, they should have used their own ME one. With all intent and purposes, this could very well be the last time LA ventures into the mmo genre. How sad of time this is for SW / mmoprg fans that wanted a deeper and more open/sandpark mmo and got a closed off, wielded on rails SP game. It's easy for mmorpg fans that love the fantasy theme to just move on to the next one that comes around. If you played WOW for any amount of time, you could switch to RIFT and now the upcoming GW2 and get that almost the same themefeeling. There's only been two SW mmo's and the first they screwed up and is shutdown and this new second one is just crap. So, if your a fan of SW and mmo's you should understand the passion and the reason behind the dislike for TOR.

 Um, ONLY two SW mmos? Fans of other franchises would love to just have ONE MMO. The first Star Wars MMO was a sandbox set in the Empire Strikes Back era and the second one is a themepark based in the Old Republic Era. When SOE did what they did to SWG and drove my entire city away I didn't whine and moan all over the MMORPG boards like a spoiled brat on a daily basis. I stopped giving them money and moved on. I did that thinking that there was never going to be another SW MMO but then again, this is just entertainment, not a cure for cancer. So no, I don't get the huge "call to arms" attitude that some posters here have over this game and I'm a big fan of Star Wars. Then again we ARE talking about a fan base that went bat shit crazy over greedo shooting first.....

 

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by jtcgs

Consumer buys a product

Consumer doesnt like the product.

Consumer complains about the product.

Other consumers try to burn them at the stake for daring to either speak or think differently.

1 consumer is in the right...the rest are Nazi zombies.

Everyone has a right to demand a better product, everyone should demand better, its the consumer that drives the market, and it isnt for you to tell people what they should or should not like and your opinion of what is or is not good does not trump what they think.

So I guess it isnt THE players...its the PLAYERS. think about that one.

Actually its more like...

Consumer follows development of product for two years

Other consumers tell him that this isn't the game for him

<<< Service provider / manufacturer assures customers that it's the best thing since sliced bread

Consumer buys product on strength of these promises

consumer doesn't like it

Consumer then spends every day of his life trashing a product he should have never bought in the first place.

Let me just correct that a little...

Seems fair now.

Yeah you might argue that the buyer should have listened to other consumers..  but that still doesn;t change the fact that he has a right to be angry with the manufacturer.

(btw: this doesn;t apply to me personally. )

Originally posted by ktanner3

Actually its more like...

Consumer follows development of product for two years

Other consumers tell him that this isn't the game for him

Consumer buys product anyway

As expected, consumer doesn't like it

Consumer then spends every day of his life trashing a product he should have never bought in the first place.

That is such a crock.

This is a product that is under an NDA until near release, long after the pre-order is set up and open to the public. Most consumers must rely on the information being allowed to be made available by the company. In ANY OTHER FIELD this would be false advertising and misleading the public.

And the second WORST thing about it...its the only field where there are consumers DEFENDING the practice and trying to shut down anyone that speaks out...THE worst thing about it, is that the people they are shutting down...are people wanting the product IMPROVED!

Because GOD KNOWS that wanting...oh...options placed into the game is a BAD THING! ITS BAD BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THERE AND ITS A COMPLAINT!

OMG, he wants MORE? BURN HIM!

OMG, he actually dared to say that...oh...the idea of the Legacy system is a good one but the way its being implimented is stupid and could be done in a far better way that that actually isnt pure DERP?!? KILL HIM for not being a good little sheep and STFU and just accepting things the way they are... 

I've seriously never seen a post so far off the mark.  I like the setting, I tried hard to enjoy the story, I didn't rush.  I got bored before level 30.  The game is BORING.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by musicmann

Like i posted before. If Bioware wanted to screw up an IP, they should have used their own ME one. With all intent and purposes, this could very well be the last time LA ventures into the mmo genre. How sad of time this is for SW / mmoprg fans that wanted a deeper and more open/sandpark mmo and got a closed off, wielded on rails SP game. It's easy for mmorpg fans that love the fantasy theme to just move on to the next one that comes around. If you played WOW for any amount of time, you could switch to RIFT and now the upcoming GW2 and get that almost the same themefeeling. There's only been two SW mmo's and the first they screwed up and is shutdown and this new second one is just crap. So, if your a fan of SW and mmo's you should understand the passion and the reason behind the dislike for TOR.

 Um, ONLY two SW mmos? Fans of other franchises would love to just have ONE MMO. The first Star Wars MMO was a sandbox set in the Empire Strikes Back era and the second one is a themepark based in the Old Republic Era. When SOE did what they did to SWG and drove my entire city away I didn't whine and moan all over the MMORPG boards like a spoiled brat on a daily basis. I stopped giving them money and moved on. I did that thinking that there was never going to be another SW MMO but then again, this is just entertainment, not a cure for cancer. So no, I don't get the huge "call to arms" attitude that some posters here have over this game and I'm a big fan of Star Wars. Then again we ARE talking about a fan base that went bat shit crazy over greedo shooting first.....

 

 

You are whining and moaning about it now though. You have been quite a bit over the last week or so. Personally I think you do not like SWTOR but keep saying you do because you do not want to post the truth that you hate it, and admit you were wrong about the game.

You keep saying it is not going to become like SWG, which is quite true but if they do not do anything to ADD (not change) some systems (hopefully similar to what SWG had and other MMOs have) to SWTOR it is just going to remain stagnant and die off.

You also said:

"The type of player that is enjoying TOR are out doing quests, warzones and flashpoints. When they are done they log off. They're not going to sit around a cantina and chat. I mean really dude, there's social networking sites for that type of thing and they don't charge a monthly sub."

If you do not see a problem with this, then you clearly do not care for SWTORs future. social networking sites are fine, but not everybody who uses these sites would be playing SWTOR. If there were social hubs in SWTOR for people to hang out, then everybody there would have access to SWTOR, as they would be logged in to it and running the game.  In SWG people hung out in cantinas, haviing fun and formed grouped and before you knew it were off doing quests and stuff in a group. Now there is not this, and people who play the game have logged off = dead game to those looking for people to play with.

All your comments over the past few weeks have not been positive towards SWTOR at all.

I agree the game feels empty. It is pretty new and even the starting zones are empty as a game that has been out for years. I am a big Star Wars fan but when I only see a couple players in a few hours of play then I am not going to pay to play monthly for an RPG. I also have an issue with modern games having craptastic graphics. I don't expect the best in the graphics department but I don't want to play something that looks like I should be playing it on facebook either (I know it's  stretch but you get the point). The only way I would be willing to play a game that has poor graphics if it has some dynamic that is really unique like Shadowbane. I would still play that game.

However, if you like the game I think that is great and I am in no way trying to insult anyone who enjoys the game. Each person has their own tastes and I do not wish the game to fail. They put a lot of hard work in it and it does have some good qualities as well.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by ktanner3

Actually its more like...

Consumer follows development of product for two years

Other consumers tell him that this isn't the game for him

Consumer buys product anyway

As expected, consumer doesn't like it

Consumer then spends every day of his life trashing a product he should have never bought in the first place.

That is such a crock.

This is a product that is under an NDA until near release, long after the pre-order is set up and open to the public. Most consumers must rely on the information being allowed to be made available by the company. In ANY OTHER FIELD this would be false advertising and misleading the public.

And the second WORST thing about it...its the only field where there are consumers DEFENDING the practice and trying to shut down anyone that speaks out...THE worst thing about it, is that the people they are shutting down...are people wanting the product IMPROVED!

Because GOD KNOWS that wanting...oh...options placed into the game is a BAD THING! ITS BAD BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THERE AND ITS A COMPLAINT!

OMG, he wants MORE? BURN HIM!

OMG, he actually dared to say that...oh...the idea of the Legacy system is a good one but the way its being implimented is stupid and could be done in a far better way that that actually isnt pure DERP?!? KILL HIM for not being a good little sheep and STFU and just accepting things the way they are... 

True +1.  I've been hit with the Status Quo stick so many times over the past week, that I am starting to wonder about the community. This is justification on a grand scale, and it's pretty sad.