Carebear? No... Lacking any real pve insentive? Yes...

So far its really shaping into a disapointment. Its one thing maybe doing pvp and having some ranking to go against others, it makes up for me over gear. When it comes to pve though, you need SOMETHING. Cosmetics doesn't do anything at all for me. I want some progress, even if its such a minor bit of progress it makes me feel like I accomplished something. With the 'pay' system as it is, it seems like anyone with money has the power to instantly catch up with any bit of 'gear' they need (weapons having certain damage being what i heard is the only factor) which leads me to wonder... why even play?

It really makes me wonder about this games longevity. Sure, we can say we play games cause we enjoy it, but in the end its all about earning something. When all you can really earn is credits (money) which can just as easily be bought through real money, what are you really working to achieve? Theres just nothing... absolutely nothing.Why even invest a lot of time into a game that there really isn't much for me? I'm really not that hardcore into pvp and outside that just nothing really has a purpose behind it. I don't think care bears even want a game where you earn nothing from it. Everyone wants to gain something and it just looks like you really earn absolutely nothing out of your work... zip... zilch... nada...

PvP to me is just a side note that is fun sometimes but ultimately not something i can invest 5 hours of my day on and enjoy it. I need more and really I have yet to see what will keep me drawn in. 

Sorry rant... in short, no its not for care bears... I have no clue who it is for besides maybe those hardcore maybe wanting to be top pvp? *shrug*

Originally posted by Ezekel

Originally posted by karmath

Can we please for once, stop the fanboi crap, personal attacks and hurrr go back to wow hurrr nonsense.

If you feel the OP is wrong in his observations post FACTS in an CONSTRUCTIVE way to disprove him.

How can we prove him wrong when he has not made any real claim? The only thing he is saying is that progression = Hardcore, and that Level playing field = Carebear.

We can hardly point to PvP progression to show him he is wrong, and there is little point in trying to show that having a level playing field means better competition.

If thats the way you think, explain your point and give examples as to why you think it will work in an MMO and not be boring, too easy or carebear. Like in my post I said the WvWvW would seeem to me whoever has the biggest zerg will win everytime. 

I found a video featuring Monorojo.

Originally posted by karmath

Can we please for once, stop the fanboi crap, personal attacks and hurrr go back to wow hurrr nonsense.

If you feel the OP is wrong in his observations post FACTS in an CONSTRUCTIVE way to disprove him.

Carebear, bads, failed. Yeah, the OP created a very constructive post. With my reaction I tried to show that if there is something that isn't carebear in GW or GW2, it is PVP. If you lack skill, you lose. There is no gear to get an advantage over players with.

PVE is not all carebear in GW2 either. While the main pve lvling content is fairly easy just like in any other MMO, The challenge is in the mega events and dungeons in exploration mode.

Anyway, the OP either misunderstood the working together part in events in GW2 PVE or is just baiting.

Originally posted by Purutzil

Carebear? No... Lacking any real pve insentive? Yes...

 

So far its really shaping into a disapointment. Its one thing maybe doing pvp and having some ranking to go against others, it makes up for me over gear. When it comes to pve though, you need SOMETHING. Cosmetics doesn't do anything at all for me. I want some progress, even if its such a minor bit of progress it makes me feel like I accomplished something. With the 'pay' system as it is, it seems like anyone with money has the power to instantly catch up with any bit of 'gear' they need (weapons having certain damage being what i heard is the only factor) which leads me to wonder... why even play?

 

It really makes me wonder about this games longevity. Sure, we can say we play games cause we enjoy it, but in the end its all about earning something. When all you can really earn is credits (money) which can just as easily be bought through real money, what are you really working to achieve? Theres just nothing... absolutely nothing.Why even invest a lot of time into a game that there really isn't much for me? I'm really not that hardcore into pvp and outside that just nothing really has a purpose behind it. I don't think care bears even want a game where you earn nothing from it. Everyone wants to gain something and it just looks like you really earn absolutely nothing out of your work... zip... zilch... nada...

 

PvP to me is just a side note that is fun sometimes but ultimately not something i can invest 5 hours of my day on and enjoy it. I need more and really I have yet to see what will keep me drawn in. 

Very well put sir.

So what if you don't PvP? Once you have run the end game dungeons in story mode and finished your story, you quit? Or Keep playing just to get literally shinier armor that has no tangible benefit whatsoever in game? I think the vast majority will quit and fast.

Originally posted by Purutzil

Carebear? No... Lacking any real pve insentive? Yes...

 

So far its really shaping into a disapointment. Its one thing maybe doing pvp and having some ranking to go against others, it makes up for me over gear. When it comes to pve though, you need SOMETHING. Cosmetics doesn't do anything at all for me. I want some progress, even if its such a minor bit of progress it makes me feel like I accomplished something. With the 'pay' system as it is, it seems like anyone with money has the power to instantly catch up with any bit of 'gear' they need (weapons having certain damage being what i heard is the only factor) which leads me to wonder... why even play?

 

It really makes me wonder about this games longevity. Sure, we can say we play games cause we enjoy it, but in the end its all about earning something. When all you can really earn is credits (money) which can just as easily be bought through real money, what are you really working to achieve? Theres just nothing... absolutely nothing.Why even invest a lot of time into a game that there really isn't much for me? I'm really not that hardcore into pvp and outside that just nothing really has a purpose behind it. I don't think care bears even want a game where you earn nothing from it. Everyone wants to gain something and it just looks like you really earn absolutely nothing out of your work... zip... zilch... nada...

 

PvP to me is just a side note that is fun sometimes but ultimately not something i can invest 5 hours of my day on and enjoy it. I need more and really I have yet to see what will keep me drawn in. 

 

Sorry rant... in short, no its not for care bears... I have no clue who it is for besides maybe those hardcore maybe wanting to be top pvp? *shrug*

^^Take a note OP, this is how its done. You ATTEMPT to make it sound credible by putting something that is somewhat sane. You're not informed enough to provide us an opinion, so just give us your guess.

The whole hater thing is nonsense and so is the fanboi BS. What we have are these types:

Misinformed people who still spew opinions as facts, informed people who form opinions, and those who believe something regardless of the facts.They are the agenda driven.

Here is a history lesson, opinion and argument have somehow switched definitions over the centuries. Opinion used to be when someone who was well versed in the facts or was someone with intimate experience to what was needed to be known, explained it to others. Arguments was when you just said things for the sake of creating conflict. As in a court room, you argue the facts. But the witnesses were giving opinions. ie expert credible  testimony.

If someone states an opinion, and is truthful, factually correct, and well reasoned. Whether I agree with it or not, it's not fair to call them a hater or a fanboi. That's not an argument, it is an explanation.

If someone states a prediction, its based on a guess. You can laugh at it or you can agree with it. Some people are better at it than others (fact). Don't see why anyone would label this person either way.

If someone states an opinion, and it's based on nothing that is known at that point, you can laugh at it or you can call it what it is, a troll, a sh!t stirrer, or even a malcontent. These are what mods should be banning or deleting. Not this ludicrous paradigm that was invented by internet evolution of, don't attack others or you will be banned BS. When these threads get posted they are based on nothing but agenda driven nonsense, that in and of itself is an attack, a personal attack on all of us.

I dont give two craps of some lame mod banning me, but for the love of god , why the hell don't they ban people like yourself what the fk is wrong with this site?

im pretty sure any MMO can be casual. it is just how much time is invested into playing. not hard to understand.

and if the OP actualy read into the game the developers aim is to make it an easy to pick up and play game and offer technical customisation for those who would like to play the way they choose.  just wait for ZOMG WTF BBQ! NO DEDICATED HEALERS OR TANKS calls to be made. news flash the dev team were inspired by team fortress (not trolling). they are breaking away from traditional jobs in the fights. whether it works out....well it is up to those who play i guess. (FLAME SUIT ON!)

The pve will be lacking with 5man dungeons as endgame.

The competitive pvp has less depth than warsong gulch.

I knew this game would not be very good as a pvp mmo when they made it clear they weren't going to have pvp servers.  That to me is a clear indication that the game doesn't want to allocate resources to making the game good for pvp. 

I predicted this game would be easier than WoW 2 years ago, based on what anet was giving us... and unless the game undergoes major changes from now to release, i won't be wrong. 

They didn't want to put the MMO back in MMORPG because their world isn't fully persistent, and they didn't want to put the RPG back in MMORPG, because their game is super watered down and there is no challenge or real role to play when everyone is a hybrid and everything is easy in general. 

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by Purutzil

Carebear? No... Lacking any real pve insentive? Yes...

 

So far its really shaping into a disapointment. Its one thing maybe doing pvp and having some ranking to go against others, it makes up for me over gear. When it comes to pve though, you need SOMETHING. Cosmetics doesn't do anything at all for me. I want some progress, even if its such a minor bit of progress it makes me feel like I accomplished something. With the 'pay' system as it is, it seems like anyone with money has the power to instantly catch up with any bit of 'gear' they need (weapons having certain damage being what i heard is the only factor) which leads me to wonder... why even play?

 

It really makes me wonder about this games longevity. Sure, we can say we play games cause we enjoy it, but in the end its all about earning something. When all you can really earn is credits (money) which can just as easily be bought through real money, what are you really working to achieve? Theres just nothing... absolutely nothing.Why even invest a lot of time into a game that there really isn't much for me? I'm really not that hardcore into pvp and outside that just nothing really has a purpose behind it. I don't think care bears even want a game where you earn nothing from it. Everyone wants to gain something and it just looks like you really earn absolutely nothing out of your work... zip... zilch... nada...

 

PvP to me is just a side note that is fun sometimes but ultimately not something i can invest 5 hours of my day on and enjoy it. I need more and really I have yet to see what will keep me drawn in. 

 

Sorry rant... in short, no its not for care bears... I have no clue who it is for besides maybe those hardcore maybe wanting to be top pvp? *shrug*

^^Take a note OP, this is how its done. You ATTEMPT to make it sound credible by putting something that is somewhat sane. You're not informed enough to provide us an opinion, so just give us your guess.

 

The whole hater thing is nonsense and so is the fanboi BS. What we have are these types:

Misinformed people who still spew opinions as facts, informed people who form opinions, and those who believe something regardless of the facts.They are the agenda driven.

Here is a history lesson, opinion and argument have somehow switched definitions over the centuries. Opinion used to be when someone who was well versed in the facts or was someone with intimate experience to what was needed to be known, explained it to others. Arguments was when you just said things for the sake of creating conflict. As in a court room, you argue the facts. But the witnesses were giving opinions. ie expert credible  testimony.

If someone states an opinion, and is truthful, factually correct, and well reasoned. Whether I agree with it or not, it's not fair to call them a hater or a fanboi. That's not an argument, it is an explanation.

If someone states a prediction, its based on a guess. You can laugh at it or you can agree with it. Some people are better at it than others (fact). Don't see why anyone would label this person either way.

If someone states an opinion, and it's based on nothing that is known at that point, you can laugh at it or you can call it what it is, a troll, a sh!t stirrer, or even a malcontent. These are what mods should be banning or deleting. Not this ludicrous paradigm that was invented by internet evolution of, don't attack others or you will be banned BS. When these threads get posted they are based on nothing but agenda driven nonsense, that in and of itself is an attack, a personal attack on all of us.

 

 

What is amazing in this response is that instead of adressing his concerns, you instead go off on some laughable tangent that stereotypes people. And I am the troll? Really?

Originally posted by Monorojo

Yikes the amount of name calling and petty attacks coming from this fanbase just becuase I voiced some concerns is disturbing. It makes me fear that the community for this game is going to be down right awful too IMO

 

I haven't played WoW for a very long time, that game got tiring. That game has nothing to do with th3 fact that this game seems to be better fit for those that couldn't take the progression of other MMO's.

I'm not even following guild wars 2 but the great part of guild wars was the fact that it was about strategy working together, bringing the right build for the right fight.  Basically you are calling people bads because they are against the pointless pvp gear treadmill.  You want leverage over everyone else so you can tell yourself your good, thats not how guild wars pvp works and for good reason.  TIme spent does not equal a good player and games that reward the no lifers are never any good pvp wise.  If you want leverage play a typical gear grind game but for the rest of us removing your "leverage" is the best thing a pvp based mmo can do. 

Originally posted by Monorojo

Originally posted by Purutzil

Carebear? No... Lacking any real pve insentive? Yes...

 

So far its really shaping into a disapointment. Its one thing maybe doing pvp and having some ranking to go against others, it makes up for me over gear. When it comes to pve though, you need SOMETHING. Cosmetics doesn't do anything at all for me. I want some progress, even if its such a minor bit of progress it makes me feel like I accomplished something. With the 'pay' system as it is, it seems like anyone with money has the power to instantly catch up with any bit of 'gear' they need (weapons having certain damage being what i heard is the only factor) which leads me to wonder... why even play?

 

It really makes me wonder about this games longevity. Sure, we can say we play games cause we enjoy it, but in the end its all about earning something. When all you can really earn is credits (money) which can just as easily be bought through real money, what are you really working to achieve? Theres just nothing... absolutely nothing.Why even invest a lot of time into a game that there really isn't much for me? I'm really not that hardcore into pvp and outside that just nothing really has a purpose behind it. I don't think care bears even want a game where you earn nothing from it. Everyone wants to gain something and it just looks like you really earn absolutely nothing out of your work... zip... zilch... nada...

 

PvP to me is just a side note that is fun sometimes but ultimately not something i can invest 5 hours of my day on and enjoy it. I need more and really I have yet to see what will keep me drawn in. 

Very well put sir.

 

So what if you don't PvP? Once you have run the end game dungeons in story mode and finished your story, you quit? Or Keep playing just to get literally shinier armor that has no tangible benefit whatsoever in game? I think the vast majority will quit and fast.

Looking at other games, if you don't PVP, then you are basically talking about the gear progression for raids in PVE. GW2 won't have a gear treadmill no. But if you want crazy grind, then you can also go for titles. You can expect that GW2 will have some very grindy titles to show off, just like in GW.

You might want to look into Zaishen ranks in GW (I'm not asking you to play GW, just look it up to see what that rank is about) This might suit ppl who like some heavy progression treadmill. I expect that they will put several progression paths like these in GW2 too.

Arenanet just doesn't like it if you outlvl or become too strong for content. Either by lvl or gear progression. If you want to become very good, you simply have to learn to play and not just get top rank gear to give you the illusion that you are good because of your overpowered stats.

And words like carebear, bad, failed, is not really a great way too ask for constructive answers :/

Whilst I don't condone the OPs abortion of a posting style, they do have some legitimate concerns re: progression.

There seems to be a lot of people arguing that many will enjoy this game purely because its fun.  I wonder how long that is sustainable in the genre however.  I hate the gear treadmill as much as the next person, but I'm also well aware that I like getting treasure in RPG's, its part of the fun. Call me shallow.  And if my treasure is mostly cosmetic, frankly that wont cut the mustard.

I'm very much in favour of this game, it looks a blast, I just hope they arent neutralizing loot too hard.  Because I know deep down it'll irritate me.

Originally posted by blognorg

I found a video featuring Monorojo.

LOL...priceless.

wooooow you have completed the game? or is your crystal ball super awesomesauce?

Originally posted by karmath

Originally posted by Ezekel

Originally posted by karmath

Can we please for once, stop the fanboi crap, personal attacks and hurrr go back to wow hurrr nonsense.

If you feel the OP is wrong in his observations post FACTS in an CONSTRUCTIVE way to disprove him.

How can we prove him wrong when he has not made any real claim? The only thing he is saying is that progression = Hardcore, and that Level playing field = Carebear.

We can hardly point to PvP progression to show him he is wrong, and there is little point in trying to show that having a level playing field means better competition.

If thats the way you think, explain your point and give examples as to why you think it will work in an MMO and not be boring, too easy or carebear. Like in my post I said the WvWvW would seeem to me whoever has the biggest zerg will win everytime. 

Go watch DAoC and tell me that its all about who has the bigger zerg. Certainly having more numbers will matter but its that way in every single MMO thats ever been created.

Tell me how having to grind gear makes the game more difficult or less boring. I cannot disprove someones personal opinion.

Boring is grinding PvP battlegrounds for 50 hours just to be competitive, Easy is having done that being able to completely stomp anybody who has not done the same. Carebear is whining that the playing field is even and you cannot faceroll other people who can't play for 12 hours a day or started later than you.

Yes you are missing something here.. the game is not for you... is that better?

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by Purutzil

Carebear? No... Lacking any real pve insentive? Yes...

 

So far its really shaping into a disapointment. Its one thing maybe doing pvp and having some ranking to go against others, it makes up for me over gear. When it comes to pve though, you need SOMETHING. Cosmetics doesn't do anything at all for me. I want some progress, even if its such a minor bit of progress it makes me feel like I accomplished something. With the 'pay' system as it is, it seems like anyone with money has the power to instantly catch up with any bit of 'gear' they need (weapons having certain damage being what i heard is the only factor) which leads me to wonder... why even play?

 

It really makes me wonder about this games longevity. Sure, we can say we play games cause we enjoy it, but in the end its all about earning something. When all you can really earn is credits (money) which can just as easily be bought through real money, what are you really working to achieve? Theres just nothing... absolutely nothing.Why even invest a lot of time into a game that there really isn't much for me? I'm really not that hardcore into pvp and outside that just nothing really has a purpose behind it. I don't think care bears even want a game where you earn nothing from it. Everyone wants to gain something and it just looks like you really earn absolutely nothing out of your work... zip... zilch... nada...

 

PvP to me is just a side note that is fun sometimes but ultimately not something i can invest 5 hours of my day on and enjoy it. I need more and really I have yet to see what will keep me drawn in. 

 

Sorry rant... in short, no its not for care bears... I have no clue who it is for besides maybe those hardcore maybe wanting to be top pvp? *shrug*

^^Take a note OP, this is how its done. You ATTEMPT to make it sound credible by putting something that is somewhat sane. You're not informed enough to provide us an opinion, so just give us your guess.

 

The whole hater thing is nonsense and so is the fanboi BS. What we have are these types:

Misinformed people who still spew opinions as facts, informed people who form opinions, and those who believe something regardless of the facts.They are the agenda driven.

Here is a history lesson, opinion and argument have somehow switched definitions over the centuries. Opinion used to be when someone who was well versed in the facts or was someone with intimate experience to what was needed to be known, explained it to others. Arguments was when you just said things for the sake of creating conflict. As in a court room, you argue the facts. But the witnesses were giving opinions. ie expert credible  testimony.

If someone states an opinion, and is truthful, factually correct, and well reasoned. Whether I agree with it or not, it's not fair to call them a hater or a fanboi. That's not an argument, it is an explanation.

If someone states a prediction, its based on a guess. You can laugh at it or you can agree with it. Some people are better at it than others (fact). Don't see why anyone would label this person either way.

If someone states an opinion, and it's based on nothing that is known at that point, you can laugh at it or you can call it what it is, a troll, a sh!t stirrer, or even a malcontent. These are what mods should be banning or deleting. Not this ludicrous paradigm that was invented by internet evolution of, don't attack others or you will be banned BS. When these threads get posted they are based on nothing but agenda driven nonsense, that in and of itself is an attack, a personal attack on all of us.

I dont give two craps of some lame mod banning me, but for the love of god , why the hell don't they ban people like yourself what the fk is wrong with this site?

 

But what about his question?

What are progress driven pve aspects in GW2?

Is there a benefit to running hard mode dungeons, for instance? Or the hardest (dragon) encounters?

Will there be unique rewards to certain Dynamic Event sequences?

I can't for the love of god imagine rewards being flat and similar across the board unless they did away with the entire BoP concept and made everything (the phat epix you'd normally find by raiding) BoE and tradeable, and with that: having an instant way to buy them off the AH through gem for gold trading.

Personally I don't believe there won't be any gear progress. Just look at this vid. Seems you need somekind of currency thingy to unlock all the armor bonusses.

It's not April 1st quite yet you jumped the gun.

Originally posted by Monorojo

The majority of the fans of this game seem to be completely against personal achievement and any osrt of progression that will make any players better than anyone else.

 

This sounds to me like an MMO for all the people who failed horribly in other MMORPGs, whether it be PvP or PvE. You don't have the time to invest in your character and make serious progression? Get Guild Wars 2. This game is ideal for parents, but does not seem like a good fit for the hardcore or even regular mmo player whatsoever. This seems to be a haven for casuals and "bads".

 

Am I missing something here?

It's a new world. The casuals, parents and "bads" are the regular MMO players now.

The age of the hardcore is over. As an EQ1 vet, it took me time to come to grips with this and I fought and fought the change but I've finally seen that the new actually isn't so bad. I've actually gone back to WoW and am enjoying keeping my dungeon finder queued while I quest/craft/collect all sorts of things. Sure, it's not the hardest game, but there's tons to do and they make it where you can normally walk away feeling satisfied with your session's accomplishments.

Save your self the grief and accept it, there will not be another EQ, AC, SB or VG:SoH.

Originally posted by Monorojo

The majority of the fans of this game seem to be completely against personal achievement and any osrt of progression that will make any players better than anyone else.

 

My skill at the game makes me better than you.