Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Wicoa

Thanks for bunching all the quitters up into one label and pretty much stereotyping you are for sure the better person.  Consumers who leave their game do so for their own reasons if it happens enmass then theres a more serious flaw afoot.  Forgive me personally for wanting to spend my money on a game that provides me with mmorpg features and buttons that work when I press them...... sure sure 1.2 is out soon tm yeh well so is guild wars 2, diablo 3, the secret world and tera. Plus *drumroll* please so is the sunshine and the summer fun.

No doubt you will come back with some smart remark, no matter to me as I choose to spend my money on what I want to and no amount of fanboi drivel (its the player not the game) that I read will change my mind on that.

SWTOR will settle at around 500k subs the players will be story and roleplaying fans and enjoy the heck out of the game but thats all there is everything else is done better by other games.

 

So this leaving on mass do you have a source or like other posters you're getting you "information" from these boards?

Im willing to go with released numbers no matter how botchy EA are fudging them.

They sold 2.2 million boxes

They last stated when I and my friends were subscribed 1.7 million subscribers.

That leaves half a million people.

Now you could say that half a million people forgot to put in their codes or were so disgusted by the current state of the game they hung onto it but then again you'd be plugging evidence out of the sky that you accuse most "haters" of making things up.

I am going to go with this: 10% of half a million people is 50,000 (whey I can do maths) to me that is a "mass" of people. That played the game and didnt like it enough.

"enmass"  is also my personal opinion from what I have witnessed along with this basic crude evidence, its enough for me to present to court at least.  Judge Judy can settle this.

Lets wait for the next figures to be  released Im willing to admit then I was wrong and  I have no problem with that. Everything for now points to a bad loss.

It seems that most posters on these boards are looking for another game a game that ticks all of their personally like boxes and until that day they will not be happy........ And looking into my crystal ball I predict them not being happy for a very long time while the rest of us enjoy the games in the present, shame really, its quite upsetting to see so much angst in the world of gaming but just like a mentally ill person its them and only them that change if they admit they are the problem not the world around them. As this moving from one game to the next expecting something that is not going to happen rather mad OH! yeah this. 

Doing the same thing over and over agin and expecting different results is a sign of madness.

Ever since I starteing reading these boards this has ben happening but the drama is sure entertaining.

Yeah it is the customers fault for not liking the product. 

Originally posted by rdrpappy

I would call it a very good rpg, cutscenes take the place of the old read the wall of text over the npc's head, that's an improvement by any account.

Name me the rpg you like, I have played many and open world aka sandbox never amounts to more than a niche and everyone damn well knows it.

You can trivialize and be sarcastic, but the fact is many people hate rpgs, have never role played, ridicule those that do and yet flock to rpg games with the veiled hopes of making it a hop and pop persistant first person shooter.

Open world is the pariah of twitch gamers who just wont let go of trying to convert rpgs into Halo.

What? That have nothing to do with it.

The whole point of a massive multiplayer roleplaying game is to play with plenty of other people. Far from all open world games are sandboxes, Lineage was open and so were plenty of other games not that long ago that had nothing to do with sandboxes.

I don't mind cutscenes myself, but I think TOR have far too many. Some sets the mode but getting constantly interupted is annoying.

Don't lecture to me about roleplaying, I had play roleplaying games long before the first MMO released (M59, which I also played).

To me it seems like you think that there only are 2 ways to make a game, TORs way and Halos way.

As I see it do roleplay games not tell you how to do stuff all the time. In P&P RPGs you are presented with a problem and solve it yourself. In games like TOR you can choose between a few ways and once you choosed the game tells you exactly what to do. The word for that isn't roleplaying but railroading.

FPS games should be about fast reflexes while RPGs should be about brain power. And the old MMOs actually forced you to think once in a while.

I am not saying that TOR is a bad game, but it could be a lot better.

Originally posted by Wicoa

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Wicoa

Thanks for bunching all the quitters up into one label and pretty much stereotyping you are for sure the better person.  Consumers who leave their game do so for their own reasons if it happens enmass then theres a more serious flaw afoot.  Forgive me personally for wanting to spend my money on a game that provides me with mmorpg features and buttons that work when I press them...... sure sure 1.2 is out soon tm yeh well so is guild wars 2, diablo 3, the secret world and tera. Plus *drumroll* please so is the sunshine and the summer fun.

No doubt you will come back with some smart remark, no matter to me as I choose to spend my money on what I want to and no amount of fanboi drivel (its the player not the game) that I read will change my mind on that.

SWTOR will settle at around 500k subs the players will be story and roleplaying fans and enjoy the heck out of the game but thats all there is everything else is done better by other games.

 

So this leaving on mass do you have a source or like other posters you're getting you "information" from these boards?

 

Im willing to go with released numbers no matter how botchy EA are fudging them.

They sold 2.2 million boxes

They last stated when I and my friends were subscribed 1.7 million subscribers.

That leaves half a million people.

Now you could say that half a million people forgot to put in their codes or were so disgusted by the current state of the game they hung onto it but then again you'd be plugging evidence out of the sky that you accuse most "haters" of making things up.

I am going to go with this: 10% of half a million people is 50,000 (whey I can do maths) to me that is a "mass" of people. That played the game and didnt like it enough.

"enmass"  is also my personal opinion from what I have witnessed along with this basic crude evidence, its enough for me to present to court at least.  Judge Judy can settle this.

Lets wait for the next figures to be  released Im willing to admit then I was wrong and  I have no problem with that. Everything for now points to a bad loss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

See the last bit is sensible and thats what I'm doing, but all else is conjecture until then.

Originally posted by Yamota

Yeah it is the customers fault for not liking the product. 

You still around I thought SW:TOR was not to your liking?

Alright so we are being accused of being mad now too :?

For the record I play a game its another mmorpgI am happy with it I have been playing it for 4 months almost since I stopped TOR mid subscription and I see myself playing this game for the rest of the year and into next.  However I am willing to "try" other ones as they release.

Originally posted by Wicoa

Alright so we are being accused of being mad now too :?

For the record I play a game its another mmorpgI am happy with it I have been playing it for 4 months almost since I stopped TOR mid subscription and I see myself playing this game for the rest of the year and into next.  However I am willing to "try" other ones as they release.

Good for you so thats one of my "they must be mad list" thanks 

Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.

Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.

See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.

Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.

Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.

Originally posted by rdrpappy

Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.

Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.

See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.

Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.

Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.

 

Soooo, RPGs cant have:

open world

no quests

constant war

no instances

"all shooting all the time"

because?

rofl

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by rdrpappy

Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.

Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.

See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.

Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.

Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.

 

Soooo, RPGs cant have:

open world

no quests

constant war

no instances

because?

rofl

Buyers remorse at it's best

Originally posted by rdrpappy

You hear it time and again, people play a little of the starter worlds quests,  they pee vee pee non stop,  the planet quests turn grey, they jam through the personal story and hit 50 in a week or two.

................

Well better if you like role playing games anyway.

You're definitely right, to a point, but I think for this game in particular you are overlooking something.

The game has been out for a few months now, and it's insanely easy to lvl. Most of the people still playing have been playing since launch, and have seen the same planet over & over again. Reused & recycled. The only things that are really 'new' are the class quests, which is why a lot of players are only doing those now, and PvPing to fill in the gaps.

Not only is it faster for lvling, but they've already done the same ol' kill X womprats quest too many times. The story is the only 'new' thing holding their interests.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by rdrpappy

I would call it a very good rpg, cutscenes take the place of the old read the wall of text over the npc's head, that's an improvement by any account.

Name me the rpg you like, I have played many and open world aka sandbox never amounts to more than a niche and everyone damn well knows it.

You can trivialize and be sarcastic, but the fact is many people hate rpgs, have never role played, ridicule those that do and yet flock to rpg games with the veiled hopes of making it a hop and pop persistant first person shooter.

Open world is the pariah of twitch gamers who just wont let go of trying to convert rpgs into Halo.

What? That have nothing to do with it.

The whole point of a massive multiplayer roleplaying game is to play with plenty of other people. Far from all open world games are sandboxes, Lineage was open and so were plenty of other games not that long ago that had nothing to do with sandboxes.  Semantics, some people call them one or the other and dont define which is which. Sometimes people say open world meaning pvp everywhere, others mean no construct, just vast spaces with mobs to grind like Lineage.

I don't mind cutscenes myself, but I think TOR have far too many. Some sets the mode but getting constantly interupted is annoying. Personal preference, I love the dialog and cutscenes, it sells the game over any old text scroller, in my opinion.

Don't lecture to me about roleplaying, I had play roleplaying games long before the first MMO released (M59, which I also played). I'm not lecturing you, dont puff up and play tough guy, no where here do I point you out and say all this applies to you.

To me it seems like you think that there only are 2 ways to make a game, TORs way and Halos way.  Maybe that's because you are interjecting yourself into what I say, no where in this post do I use you as my reference or example. I am overstating to make a point that we both know to be true however, (many people playing mmorpg's hate mmorpg's and just wont admit it), I do hate asian style open world mob grinders though. 

As I see it do roleplay games not tell you how to do stuff all the time. In P&P RPGs you are presented with a problem and solve it yourself. In games like TOR you can choose between a few ways and once you choosed the game tells you exactly what to do. The word for that isn't roleplaying but railroading.  Then I excuse you from playing, you may now go back to your favorite game.

FPS games should be about fast reflexes while RPGs should be about brain power. And the old MMOs actually forced you to think once in a while.

I am not saying that TOR is a bad game, but it could be a lot better. Agreed, I know it's been 3 whole months now but I think they have some irons in the fire to help it along.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by rdrpappy

Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.

Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.

See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.

Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.

Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.

 

Soooo, RPGs cant have:

open world

no quests

constant war

no instances

"all shooting all the time"

because?

rofl

Is that what you got from that, seriously?

Originally posted by franko79

This topic: fail, you are wrong bla bla bla.

Sorry but there are many reasons to quit game if you think that only rushers quit swtor you are very wrong.

It is medicore uninspired mmo thats why people are leaving...

What's your favorite mmorpg?

Let me know how fun those planets are on your forth time through since the game revolves around creating alts.

The stories are mediocre at best but the game was some what entertaining the first time through but as I played it just fight like WoW with some glow sticks and movies thrown in. But they were not trying to reinvent anything so I guess overall they succeeded in createing a run of the mill mmo.

Favourite online games = GW and AoC

Quit SWTOR simply because at best it's a mediocre mmo, with story decisions making little to no impact on progression and distracting from the wider world, the SRPG didn't gel with the multi player aspect and the world feels completely static. I don't PvP and felt the game wasn't worth the sub at all. From my perspective it's just not a very good game.

I can understand your point directed at one particular player base but it's clearly not that simple, very few of my guild of PvE players made it through the first month, probably about 10% and none of them are still playing. I'm glad your enjoying it and other people are but don't lump together all players together who don't like it to fit your agenda.

Some people like the genre Bioware has created......railpark....some like myself can't stand it besides pressing spacebar is tedious.

I think the issue here is a tad more faceted to be fair.

I do accept your argument that people rush to the end and got bored.  I basically have to put aside 6-7 hours to play because I always like to finish a planets story before I move on, in some ways it's pretty hardcore timewise.  It does mean I go days without playing at times.

There are issues with the game and some of them are genuine.  Ability lag, uneven difficulty class quests, VO is great but the quest tasks lack variety, oh and PVP.  Yes the PVP is broken, (although why in a game with apparently 200 hours of content you'd want to farm BGs all day is beyond me, but fundamentally if it's this broken it shouldn't be there), and clearly Biowares admission that it needs a complete refub is damaging.

I do think it's a bit rich to claim anyone who doesn't like the PVP is somehow expecting a FPS style arena game.  Tab targeting PVP in MMOs are popular with a certain crowd, it's not for me, but a PVP system centred around IIum was advertised as a feature at launch.  It doesn't work correctly, so people will complain.

On the other hand, this game will always get a rough ride on these forums for a few reasons.  The first is it's not SWG or more precisely SWG 2.0.  

Yes there are still people who hang around here and tell everyone that if you can't build a moisture vaporator in a Star Wars game it's vaporware.  The bitter pre-NGE vets have found someone else to rat on.  SOE must be thrilled for the break, frankly.

Another reason is that it's published by EA, people hate EA with good reason.  

But of course on these boards it extends to 'conspricacy' theories about how good reviews were bribed and other such nonsense.  The irony is these people are trying to supposedly reveal the, 'truth', while imposing their own, 'reality', that the games dying.  This reached even newer heights after the 1.7 million figure came out and the same haters claimed it was a lie, even though that would technically be illegal.

The last reason is the setup isn't radically different.  

Yes SWTOR is innovative, it has done things differently, (VO, crewskills, companions etc), but it's essentially a dungeon/raid grinder game. A style of game that has few supporters on these forums, well those who claim they don't support that sort of thing...unless you put the word, 'dynamic', in front of everything then it's all good, sorry couldn't help it :P

That's my view anyway, I still enjoy the game and it was what I expected it to be.  In my opinion, Bioware did tell me what style of game they were going for and it's lived up to that mostly.  For some that'll never be enough though, for various reasons stated above and there are problems with it that are worthy of criticism.

EDIT: Terrible spelling, punctuation, grammar and to clarify position

Originally posted by Xthos

Originally posted by rdrpappy

If you bought pong and didn't like it, it's your fault, that's the point. Stop playing rpg's if you want fps pvp.

 I wanted a good MMO, so I stopped playing TOR...I got the quit playing it down.

 

LOL!  This is sooo true of most of us I think :)

Steps:

1. quit playing the games you hate

2. stop buying them before they are released

3. stop buying them

4. decide what you want to play other than "MMO"

5. buy that game (MMO or not)

People like MMOs because of the community and the carrot and stick. . . the community is gone, they took the stick out and that same old carrot is getting moldy and starting to upset your stomach when you get a nibble.. even if they paint it purple :)