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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » In WvW, siege weapons cost gold. Gems buyers have a WvW advantage

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606 posts found
  RelGn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/05
Posts: 515

3/28/12 11:28:10 PM#141

cant wait to see the flames on the forums once this crap is released

  megera23

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/11
Posts: 240

3/28/12 11:28:25 PM#142
Originally posted by Homitu

And once again, gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  It simply transfers gold already generated in game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.

Also, even if this did somehow translate to an advantage (which it doesn't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  

 

I think this needs to be reposted, since not many people here seem to have read it.

  AIMonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2023

3/28/12 11:56:12 PM#143
Originally posted by megera23
Originally posted by Homitu

And once again, gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  It simply transfers gold already generated in game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.

Also, even if this did somehow translate to an advantage (which it doesn't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  

 

I think this needs to be reposted, since not many people here seem to have read it.

I don't think anyone is complaining about it on a realm by realm basis.  The advantage is on a player by player basis.  If gem to gold sellers control the majority of the gold then they control the majority of the seige weapons (especially golems) IF the golems are expensive enough.  It looks like it takes quite a bit of farming (going off just gold from events) to get enough to build a golem too.  If a player also has a choice between buying gems with gold, seige weapons, repair costs, and other gold sinks they are less likely to buy seige weapons where the players who sell gems for gold not only have more gold, but don't have to worry about buying gems for gold too, so they can freely spend gold on these seige weapons.

Player A who uses the cash shop to sell gems for gold doesn't have to worry about the cost of seige weapons as much as Player B who doesn't buys those gems for gold.  Player A will get the full experience of the game being able to use seige weapons as he pleases, where Player B will have to make a serious decision and lose out on SOMETHING in order to afford the seige golem, thus Player A has a clear advantage over Player B.  This is of course assuming seige golems are actually expensive, especially at higher level, but we don't really have enough information about that yet to know.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Skarecrow7

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/10
Posts: 342

3/29/12 12:00:38 AM#144

If I farm enough gold to buy a gem in the market place, and then the person that sold that gem gets a golem blue print with that money, what would be the differnce if I instead of getting that gem, I bought a golem blue print myself with that money?  

  User Deleted
3/29/12 12:12:47 AM#145
Originally posted by romanator0

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supply

Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.

LOL well said.

  Terrorizor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 337

3/29/12 12:14:50 AM#146

So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

3/29/12 12:23:19 AM#147
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by megera23
Originally posted by Homitu

And once again, gem > gold transactions do not cause gold to magically materialize.  It simply transfers gold already generated in game from one player to another.  The overall gold pool for your server does not change at all.  Your server remains no more or less capable of purchasing siege weapons whether or not people on your realm purchase gold via gems.

Also, even if this did somehow translate to an advantage (which it doesn't), there is no reason at all to think that one realm will have a significantly disproportionate number of gem > gold transactors compared to other realms.  There would be no discernable advantage on a realm by realm basis.  

 

I think this needs to be reposted, since not many people here seem to have read it.

I don't think anyone is complaining about it on a realm by realm basis.  The advantage is on a player by player basis.  If gem to gold sellers control the majority of the gold then they control the majority of the seige weapons (especially golems) IF the golems are expensive enough.  It looks like it takes quite a bit of farming (going off just gold from events) to get enough to build a golem too.  If a player also has a choice between buying gems with gold, seige weapons, repair costs, and other gold sinks they are less likely to buy seige weapons where the players who sell gems for gold not only have more gold, but don't have to worry about buying gems for gold too, so they can freely spend gold on these seige weapons.

Player A who uses the cash shop to sell gems for gold doesn't have to worry about the cost of seige weapons as much as Player B who doesn't buys those gems for gold.  Player A will get the full experience of the game being able to use seige weapons as he pleases, where Player B will have to make a serious decision and lose out on SOMETHING in order to afford the seige golem, thus Player A has a clear advantage over Player B.  This is of course assuming seige golems are actually expensive, especially at higher level, but we don't really have enough information about that yet to know.

Personally, it's not really an issue. I'm not competing against players on my realm and if they have an easier time buying siege weapons, more power to them. It will be beneficial for everyone from my realm as we're all working together to win.

One thing to consider about pricing is that most players who participated in WvW were low levels. I think the highest level content was 20 something and there was an NPC who could bump your character up to level 30 if you wanted to run the dungeon.

As brand new characters, they had very limited funds. In WoW, for example 1gold is a lot for a brand new level 20. For a level 85, 1 gold is not even noticable. Once the game is a few months old and a lot of people are at the level cap, 1 gold for a siege golem will become meaningless. It's also important to note that siege weapons are situational and are not an automatic "IWIN" button and since they do require supplies, which can at times better be used to reenforce your keep walls and gates, it really becomes a nonissue.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

3/29/12 12:26:02 AM#148
Originally posted by Terrorizor

So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!

You can only trade gems to other players, not NPCs or any game systems. In other words, if you jump into WvW without making any money, a person who bought gems will not be able to buy that blueprint since there will be no one to trade gems with.

  sk8chalif

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 598

3/29/12 12:33:14 AM#149
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Terrorizor

So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!

You can only trade gems to other players, not NPCs or any game systems. In other words, if you jump into WvW without making any money, a person who bought gems will not be able to buy that blueprint since there will be no one to trade gems with.

The gold have to come from player. so that mean no,

people need to farm gold somehow first , u cant sell gem if no1 have gold,


~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~

  FlawSGI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1426

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

3/29/12 12:34:53 AM#150
Originally posted by reignjuste

cant wait to see the flames on the forums once this crap is released

 Your post history shows you have no love for GW2 yet you frequent our forums with the same opiinion so I guess I should TY for your participation even though you offer nothing to any discussion that I have seen. I also saw that your knowledge on what  agood game is and isn't lead you to buy the SWTOR CE and look how that turned out for you? 

I'll counter your negativity with saying I have played it and I highly doubt it will turn out the way you see it. You seem to think WOW is the greatest in a previouse post yet I can tell you that if you honestly beleive than any game aside from your beloved Titan are going to fail then I feel bad for you.  

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Naral

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 753

3/29/12 12:46:13 AM#151

I did not read through the pages of posts, but I have a point to ask about, or make as the case may be.

First of all, I am not a huge fan of any cash shop, but fail, really, to see where the GW2 cash shop makes any difference to game play. But for argument sake, let's say it did.

Let's say, someone on your server buys a metric fuckton of gems, sells them all and gets stupid rich. He has become the Bill Gates of your server, awash in gold.

Now, he goes to WvWvW and buys every man, woman and child a siege golem, hell, he buys them two. Assuming you can get the supplies (which is pretty much equal on all fronts anyway) you will have a shitload of siege golems, and probably kick some butt.

The thing is, he or she is on your side, not that this unlikely scenario can come to pass. If he is competing on your server, he is still working WITH you. 

Okay, okay, I know what you are thinking. Someone on another server did that, and poor me. Well, two things. First, what is stop anyone on your server from doing the same thing? Second of all, all you have to do to make those blueprints irrelevant is get your side to play better than their side, the superiority of which will keep them from getting the supplies to activate those blueprints. Skills even out in WvWvW, so do equipment. There has never BEEN a game with a more even footing in pvp that still dares to call itself an MMORPG.

That said, all this is kind of a moot point anyway. The supply issue pretty much limits how many siege engines will be running around, not blueprints. IMO blueprints are really just a gold sink to get gold out of the game.

And all this comes from a guy, who if you look at my post history, does not really like the cash shop, and has even been pretty critical of the game. I am no fanboi, but this argument seems silly.

  Mors-Subita

Novice Member

Joined: 7/04/04
Posts: 464

3/29/12 12:50:57 AM#152
Originally posted by Cinge
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Cinge
Originally posted by romanator0

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supply

Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.

Not really roadblock, your side is going to want to hold/keep supply objectivies anyhow(to upgrade keeps, rebuild  doors etc).

 

His point still stands, someone who buys gems with $  and trades to gold can buy more Seige weapons.

 

Its funny watching all the people with GW2 sigs race to white knight any thread/post that may even be a "Slight" negative towards the game.

Blueprints you mean....which are useless by themselves 

It doesn't matter, its still a advantage by using out-of-game means.

 

Example :

 

One side has 2,500 supply but hardly anyone has the money for weapons(which from what i've seen and read can be the case in the early going). So they are just using player damage to kill the door.

 

The other side  has 1000 supply but someone bought a bunch of gems using $ and has a bunch of gold, he can buy a bunch of siege blueprints or give money to guildmates to buy each some and now they will take keeps/objectives infinately faster then the other group.

 

Trying to sweep the entire thing under the rug and say it can't or will not be a problem is retarded. It can obviously be a issue, especially in the early going.

 

Also based on game footage money doesn't seem to just flow in, hell was watching the guy do level 30 DEs and quest and rewards were like 2 silver currency. Now look a the cost of the "Good" siege blueprints 42s and 1g5s.

Not to Interject any unneeded reality to your post, but you say that one side might not have any money because it is early on... Given that, who exactly is providing the gold on the other side, since presumably they are not using time-machines? You do realise that you can't buy gold in the cash shop, you can only sell gems to other players, right? So the gold has to exist before you can buy it... So the best you can say is "say it is early time and one side has 2500 supply, but one person on the server bought out all the gold everyone else on his side had and is the only person who can afford siege equipment". Of course this presupposes that every other person sold him all of their gold(and didn't kill anything or sell anything after that to get more gold)... but even then, who cares?

  palulalula

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 675

3/29/12 12:56:14 AM#153

What did you expected guys? Everything for free or what. You cant make a profit from selling only colored shirts and  dragon milk. Don't pvp to much and spend your money wisely only on things that you really need

  itssantos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/06
Posts: 52

3/29/12 1:03:57 AM#154

Said a few times already but might as well address it again.

The player who bought gems(player A) needs other players(Player B) to trade gold for the gems to have any worth outside the cash shop. Seeing this is not at gun point it was player B's choice to trade their gold for gems. So now player A can  buy blueprints but we need to accept that player B gave up the right to buy a ton of blue prints to get the gems. It was not forced it was player B's decision to put his gold towards Gems and not WvWvW.

As long as you can't trade gems to NPCs for gold I am ok with it. If we find out we can trade with NPCs...I'll just get more satisfaction when a server destroys someone's $5 golem.

 

  Rhianni32

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/10
Posts: 223

3/29/12 8:13:07 AM#155
Originally posted by Terrorizor

So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!

Sir I literally laughed out loud on this one. Well done and you make a great point.

If it has come down to arguing over a lvl 1 or 3 player being taken advantage or not  for 20 minutes of gameplay because the cashshop person bought a blueprint they cannot use until supply is generated.... well the cashshop must be in pretty good shape.

  Arachneus1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/06
Posts: 244

3/29/12 8:23:46 AM#156

At the beginning of the game a gem is going to be worth nothing!  No one will have the gold to buy a gem and therefor gem holders will not make any gold.  Also  If one person has all the gold in the world, then multiple people have all the gems in the world.  One person gains while the rest of everyone is hurting.  There is no issue here, the game is still balanced around this one point that for every blueprint bought with "gems->gold" there is an equal player that cannot and has hurt their server.

This is a team game in WvWvW!  There is no one player that can buy all the equipment and siege a castle on his own with all the siege equipment.  He will need the help of other players to build it with supply, and then needs some to distract other players and guards of a castle/tower.  Seriously who cares about these, if your team was smart you could destroy each blueprint before it was finished being made because they have no supply.

  NeoZcar2

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 137

3/29/12 8:26:05 AM#157

I wasn't going to comment on this because the OP's theory  was pretty much destroyed on page 1 or 2. But I jsut cant let it keep going on. Buying GEMs to trade in game Gold will not change the sway of the game one bit. 

 

So what if newb_ranger_001  buys 25$ worth of Gems and then trades them in game for gold. What does he get. He gets currency that can either be spent to help his servermates in V8, or he can spend it on the market buying armor and weapon sets from his server mates there by spreading the wealth back into the community. Gold in no way makes a player more powerful. Gold in no way gives you an advantage in V8.

 

Seriously there might be upwards of 1500 players spread across 4 maps in V8. Ar eyou telling me one person who bought gems and traded for gold will have any major influence in the swing of battle? Probably not. And anyways what is to say that the other servers dont have a player who did the same thing. The sheer numbers in the battles would makes the odds highly in favor of multiple players from each server being GEM purchasers.

 

But you keep on complaining because I managed to make it all the way through the first Guildwars Trilogy game without ever spending a dime in teh cash shop and I still have a vast wealth of items and currency stored away in my bank along with hundreds of Z keys, Travellers gifts, and like 10 different armor sets for each character. 

 

And while you stand around whining the newb_ranger_001 just sold a bunch of GEMs for gold I will be out playing the game advancing my character and then dominating in PVP. Hopefully I can even find a tiny Violen to play a sad sad song for you as you fall further and further behind because you worry more about the cash shop and less about actually playing the game.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

3/29/12 8:32:27 AM#158
Originally posted by Betakodo

Prices - http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Blueprints-ventor.png

What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).

For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.

 

Then don't play.    When a game has a working-as-intended mechanic I don't like, I deal with it or I don't play.    

  Laughing-man

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3394

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

3/29/12 8:35:22 AM#159

So false premise thread which was proven false on post 5 is still going?

Seige weapons dont' cost gold so this thread is rather invalid, and that's been stated several times already.

an unfair advantage would be not something that gives you a head start, but something that makes you unable to be competed against. 

Gems are not an unfair advantage.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

3/29/12 8:41:39 AM#160
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by wolvards

just curious, once you buy the blueprint is that it? done, now all you need is the materials? or everytime you want 1 treb you have to buy a blueprint? then, how much materials are needed to make that blueprint, i get your point, but i'm just curious as to how the siege system will work.

As others have said, you actually need supplies to build siege equipment, the bueprint is a one-time use to initiate the construction. Don't tell the whiners though, they might be very dissappointed. 

Also don't tell them you don't need to bring any gold into WvW since everything you do there actually earns you gold. They might run out of things to point their fingers at, and then what would we argue about ...?

 

Yeah...    I personally don't see that this is any kind of huge advantage.     Maybe in early game it'll make a difference.   I certainly remember my first year in LOTRO where I was always stuggling for cash...   At the end of year two, and my semi-retiring, I've got over 300 gold and can make 5 gold a day pretty much 'accidently' just because I've got all those high-level guys and I know what to do...   And I not even 'rich,' I know people with thousands of gold and nothing to spend it on...

 

 

 

 

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