Originally posted by someforumguy

Nice, but this interview does not really address my concerns about how the gems can affect player economy.

The gems will dictate the entire economy, encouraging people to buy them, thus making the company money just as they intended.

Originally posted by adam_nox

Originally posted by Ekiim

Man poor people like to whine a lot. Get a friggin job and get off the welfare, geesh.

 

many people against the cash shop would prefer a monthly sub.  truth is, a cash shop is a way to make MORE money than a monthly sub, while allowing many more people to play the game.  They know eventually most people who play long enough will spend money.

 

The thing that's most upsetting to me is how anet said they wouldn't have to do this, that box price was all they needed.  I was skeptical and was shouted down by fanboys.  Now that this happens, I complain and I'm still shouted down by fanboys.  Just can't win.

 

So when was the cash shop not part of the plan?  I seem to remember knowing about it pretty much from when I first started following the game closely a couple of years ago.  Perhaps you should have listened to your panicmongering bretheren and not overhyped yourself.   You clearly can't seem to handle it.

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by someforumguy

Nice, but this interview does not really address my concerns about how the gems can affect player economy.

The gems will dictate the entire economy, encouraging people to buy them, thus making the company money just as they intended.

I believe this too NMStudio. I don't think people realise this but they will in the end. Would feel better about the whole thing if the gems weren't a part of the game at all but there ya go, they are.  I'll watch from afar on this one and see how it turns out before dipping my toes in.

Originally posted by NMStudio

you can buy gems, and then use those to buy gold...  so, they're selling gold.  And if you're able to convince yourself that in-game gold buys nothing that gives you any kind of advantage, then how can anyone possibly prove otherwise?

XP potions are an advantage, are they not?  Having better gear NOW is an advantage over having better gear later, is it not?

Maybe you're fine with the advantages, but that doesn't stop them from being just that...

They aren't selling gold, they are selling Gems for cash shop items.  However, if you want to trade with a player and give them cash shop items for what they earned in game, then you can.  There is a big difference.

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by heartless

 

Some people's hate for microtransactions is so irrational at times that no matter how trivial the cash shop is, the rage will continue.

What's funny is that most of these people who hate cash shop are probably pay a subscription fee to an MMO which has a cash shop as well. It's OK for Blizzard, EA, Funcom and Turbine to have one but as soon as ANet does it, GW2 is pay2win.

 

I've noticed that the opposite is true.  Many people have bashed EA, Funcom, Turbine, PWE, Cryptic, etc relentlessly as being greedy and pay to win because of their cash shops.

Suddenly, many of those same people are now singing the praises of cash shops, and how they have no impact on the game, simply because, well, now it's GW2.

In short, the mantra here appears to be: if another game does it, it's horrible, but if GW2 does the exact same thing, it's awesome.  It's plain, flat-out dishonest.

Welcome to GW2 forums where Anet gets free pass on everything. if you spend some time checking post history of these CS defenders you will find out how they bashed other companies for doing the same. Most of them are either bi polar or have very weak memories.

The difference is that ANet's cash shop does not offer any pay2win items and most of those items will be attainable just by playing the game. Personaly, I don't see any harm in a cash shop like that, especially when there is no subscription fee involved.

Now if ANet starts selling items that actually give an unfair advantage, then that would be a different story.

you can buy gems, and then use those to buy gold...  so, they're selling gold.  And if you're able to convince yourself that in-game gold buys nothing that gives you any kind of advantage, then how can anyone possibly prove otherwise?

XP potions are an advantage, are they not?  Having better gear NOW is an advantage over having better gear later, is it not?

Maybe you're fine with the advantages, but that doesn't stop them from being just that...

Leveling doesn't mean much in GW2. If you're level 80 and visit a level 20 zone, you get scaled to level 20. You get weapon skills by fighting and other skills via skill points that are attainable by perfoming various tasks in the game and you can't buy those. In PvP, everyone get's scaled to level 80, so your XP potion means zilch.

As far as gold goes, you get the best items in the game via karma you get by completing events and quests, not gold. So you can sell the gems to other players (not NPCs) for gold but being isanely rich won't mean much, since you still can't get the best items with gold and you can't trade/sell karma.

You cannot buy gear in the cash shop.

Any other issues you have?

Edit: most importantly, virtually everything in the cash shop can be acquired in the game via normal means, drops, vendors, etc.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

 

---

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

 

Better do your research.  RvRvR advantages can be increased by $$$ spent.  But the pay2win aspects aren't necessarily the worst part.  I think the "mystic key" is the most crass thing in my opinion.

---

 

Hmmm, if that's the case. Maybe I WILL make this game P2P.

heheh.

Many people don't understand...In many games, the power to be had is in fact NOT in the cash shop.

It's in the game. Everyone has access to the same stuff.

But it's in the "Items of convenience" that help Cash Shop players use the items of power more conveniently.

 

Please do make it P2W, or whatever you feel that equates to according to the rules you make up for it.  Please, spend $1000 or more.  It will have no affect on my enjoyment of the game.  In WvW, you'll just be another nameless invader to be ground into the dust.  Unless you're on my server, in which case, I'll be happy to bring you supply.  If we meet anywhere else, your purchased superiority becomes utterly irrelevant, instead of just mostly so.  Your contribution to the shop will be appreciated though.  Thanks for contributing funding for more content for me.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by heartless

 

Some people's hate for microtransactions is so irrational at times that no matter how trivial the cash shop is, the rage will continue.

What's funny is that most of these people who hate cash shop are probably pay a subscription fee to an MMO which has a cash shop as well. It's OK for Blizzard, EA, Funcom and Turbine to have one but as soon as ANet does it, GW2 is pay2win.

 

I've noticed that the opposite is true.  Many people have bashed EA, Funcom, Turbine, PWE, Cryptic, etc relentlessly as being greedy and pay to win because of their cash shops.

Suddenly, many of those same people are now singing the praises of cash shops, and how they have no impact on the game, simply because, well, now it's GW2.

In short, the mantra here appears to be: if another game does it, it's horrible, but if GW2 does the exact same thing, it's awesome.  It's plain, flat-out dishonest.

Welcome to GW2 forums where Anet gets free pass on everything. if you spend some time checking post history of these CS defenders you will find out how they bashed other companies for doing the same. Most of them are either bi polar or have very weak memories.

The difference is that ANet's cash shop does not offer any pay2win items and most of those items will be attainable just by playing the game. Personaly, I don't see any harm in a cash shop like that, especially when there is no subscription fee involved.

Now if ANet starts selling items that actually give an unfair advantage, then that would be a different story.

you can buy gems, and then use those to buy gold...  so, they're selling gold.  And if you're able to convince yourself that in-game gold buys nothing that gives you any kind of advantage, then how can anyone possibly prove otherwise?

XP potions are an advantage, are they not?  Having better gear NOW is an advantage over having better gear later, is it not?

Maybe you're fine with the advantages, but that doesn't stop them from being just that...

Leveling doesn't mean much in GW2. If you're level 80 and visit a level 20 zone, you get scaled to level 20. You get weapon skills by fighting and other skills via skill points that are attainable by perfoming various tasks in the game and you can't buy those. In PvP, everyone get's scaled to level 80, so your XP potion means zilch.

As far as gold goes, you get the best items in the game via karma you get by completing events and quests, not gold. So you can sell the gems to other players (not NPCs) for gold but being isanely rich won't mean much, since you still can't get the best items with gold and you can't trade/sell karma.

You cannot buy gear in the cash shop.

Any other issues you have?

You can buy gems in the cash shop, which you can use to buy gold, which you can use to buy gear... which means you can buy gear in the cash shop.

Now you want to argue that only the BEST items in the game can't be bought with gold... but all of the rest can?  And buying these items will help you to EARN the best gear, thus still giving you an advantage.

And if you refuse to see how an XP potion is an advantage, no amount of common sense will get through to you.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by heartless

 

Some people's hate for microtransactions is so irrational at times that no matter how trivial the cash shop is, the rage will continue.

What's funny is that most of these people who hate cash shop are probably pay a subscription fee to an MMO which has a cash shop as well. It's OK for Blizzard, EA, Funcom and Turbine to have one but as soon as ANet does it, GW2 is pay2win.

 

Edit: most importantly, virtually everything in the cash shop can be acquired in the game via normal means, drops, vendors, etc.

The cash shop lets you get them FASTER and EASIER, and the last time I checked, FASTER and EASIER were generally considered to be ADVANTAGES...

Originally posted by NMStudio

 

You can buy gems in the cash shop, which you can use to buy gold, which you can use to buy gear... which means you can buy gear in the cash shop.

Now you want to argue that only the BEST items in the game can't be bought with gold... but all of the rest can?  And buying these items will help you to EARN the best gear, thus still giving you an advantage.

And if you refuse to see how an XP potion is an advantage, no amount of common sense will get through to you.

You can quit your job, which will give you more time, which you can use to farm gold, which you can use to buy gear... which means you can buy gear by being unemployed.

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by someforumguy

Nice, but this interview does not really address my concerns about how the gems can affect player economy.

The gems will dictate the entire economy, encouraging people to buy them, thus making the company money just as they intended.

This may even be true. But my question is: So?

Let's look at a few facts.

1) Yes, kids, Anet wants to make money. Holy crap, a business wanting to make money! What a terrible thing! This by itself is not bad. It's how they choose to go about it that will make all the difference.

2) OK, so gems may become the backbone of the economy. But with "free" players buying gems with gold, they can essentially earn anything in the cash shop without spending a single rl dollar. And "cash shop" players can earn gold...which is only as effective as the playet market makes it. The players buying gems on the market- that is the "free" players...will be the ones determining the flow of the economy. So the "cash shop" players won't rule the game economy that easily.

3) The cash shop items will not signifigantly impact play. Yes you can earn XP a little faster. Let's say it takes you 30 days normally to hit cap. And let's say a player uses xp boost potions the ENTIRE time. The boost is what, 20% That means that player will cap 6 days faster. I've heard some arguments that imply that player has 6 days to farm up millions of gold and gain utter supremacy of the in game market, but I don't buy it. Yes you can earn karma faster, but Anet has told us time and again gear will not rule gameplay the way it does in, say, wow. If they are telling the truth a player who gets a full set of top end karma gear a day or two ahead of others will not, very likely, rule the game forever.

Allow me to reiterate these are both temporary bonuses. Once the rest of the server catches up, they lose whatever they gained from this. It just helps them get there a little faster. Nothing more. It saves time, and therefore its value is only the worth of your time. It does not impact the game.

4) I will make the excepting for the chest keys and loot bags. Depending on theirdrop tables, these COULD have a signifcant impact on play. We will have to wait and see what they offer, and judge from there. 

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by heartless

 

Some people's hate for microtransactions is so irrational at times that no matter how trivial the cash shop is, the rage will continue.

What's funny is that most of these people who hate cash shop are probably pay a subscription fee to an MMO which has a cash shop as well. It's OK for Blizzard, EA, Funcom and Turbine to have one but as soon as ANet does it, GW2 is pay2win.

 

Edit: most importantly, virtually everything in the cash shop can be acquired in the game via normal means, drops, vendors, etc.

The cash shop lets you get them FASTER and EASIER, and the last time I checked, FASTER and EASIER were generally considered to be ADVANTAGES...

Sooo, the fact that the things in the cash shop are pretty things, then i get an advantage to looking seksier than you? oooo wait no you think that if i'm lvl 80 in an instanced BG and you are lvl 40 and i used xp scrolls that im going to insta own you yeah? wrong, one, you get scaled up, 2 it's more about SKILL than GEAR, get this i-have-higher-gear-than-you-cause-i-raided-more-so-i-am-entitled-to-win mentality out of your head, this is NOT WoW, there is NOOOOO gear grind, it's based on SKILL, what you use and HOW you use it, i can tell you this all day long, but you will go back to, but it's the "best gear", there isnt a BEST suit of armor or a "best" weapon, gosh dang people why don't you freaking read into the game, rather than try and learn about it by forums actually look into them. I'm not even for the cash shop and i understand this.

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by heartless

 

Some people's hate for microtransactions is so irrational at times that no matter how trivial the cash shop is, the rage will continue.

What's funny is that most of these people who hate cash shop are probably pay a subscription fee to an MMO which has a cash shop as well. It's OK for Blizzard, EA, Funcom and Turbine to have one but as soon as ANet does it, GW2 is pay2win.

 

I've noticed that the opposite is true.  Many people have bashed EA, Funcom, Turbine, PWE, Cryptic, etc relentlessly as being greedy and pay to win because of their cash shops.

Suddenly, many of those same people are now singing the praises of cash shops, and how they have no impact on the game, simply because, well, now it's GW2.

In short, the mantra here appears to be: if another game does it, it's horrible, but if GW2 does the exact same thing, it's awesome.  It's plain, flat-out dishonest.

Welcome to GW2 forums where Anet gets free pass on everything. if you spend some time checking post history of these CS defenders you will find out how they bashed other companies for doing the same. Most of them are either bi polar or have very weak memories.

The difference is that ANet's cash shop does not offer any pay2win items and most of those items will be attainable just by playing the game. Personaly, I don't see any harm in a cash shop like that, especially when there is no subscription fee involved.

Now if ANet starts selling items that actually give an unfair advantage, then that would be a different story.

you can buy gems, and then use those to buy gold...  so, they're selling gold.  And if you're able to convince yourself that in-game gold buys nothing that gives you any kind of advantage, then how can anyone possibly prove otherwise?

XP potions are an advantage, are they not?  Having better gear NOW is an advantage over having better gear later, is it not?

Maybe you're fine with the advantages, but that doesn't stop them from being just that...

Leveling doesn't mean much in GW2. If you're level 80 and visit a level 20 zone, you get scaled to level 20. You get weapon skills by fighting and other skills via skill points that are attainable by perfoming various tasks in the game and you can't buy those. In PvP, everyone get's scaled to level 80, so your XP potion means zilch.

As far as gold goes, you get the best items in the game via karma you get by completing events and quests, not gold. So you can sell the gems to other players (not NPCs) for gold but being isanely rich won't mean much, since you still can't get the best items with gold and you can't trade/sell karma.

You cannot buy gear in the cash shop.

Any other issues you have?

You can buy gems in the cash shop, which you can use to buy gold, which you can use to buy gear... which means you can buy gear in the cash shop.

Now you want to argue that only the BEST items in the game can't be bought with gold... but all of the rest can?  And buying these items will help you to EARN the best gear, thus still giving you an advantage.

And if you refuse to see how an XP potion is an advantage, no amount of common sense will get through to you.

You cannot trade gems directly for gold. You have to trade them to a player. That would require someone actually wanting to buy those gems for the price you want. It's not as simple as selecting an NPC and clicking "buy."

Gear in GW2 does not mean as much as it does in other MMOs. So having slightly better gear won't make you overpowered. Moreover, there is no open world PvP and all PvE is based on cooperation, so if you have a slightly better sword than me, it will benefit me as well, since we're both working together towards the same goal.

GW2 utilizing a shallow leveling curve. You'll be progressing through the levels at the same rate. In other words, it won't take you much longer to go from 79-80 than it did to go from 29-30. With an XP potion you can get there a bit faster but so what? In PvP we're cooperating together, in PvP we're both level 80 regardless of what level you are in PvE.

For those who believe GW2 cash shop, aside from RTM through  geme trading, is about vanity items only:

http://news.mmosite.com/content/q/2012-03-27/guild_wars_2_the_cash_shop_items_get_leaked.shtml

Maybe items (armour/weapons/squirrels... ) are vanity, but the rest are boost, or simply put "p2w".

But dear gw2 fanboys fellas, faith is a personal thing, i won't dig in that, you can as well believe in flying teapots, it is fine to me as long as it makes you feel good and righteous. Amen.

Originally posted by wolvards

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by heartless

 

Some people's hate for microtransactions is so irrational at times that no matter how trivial the cash shop is, the rage will continue.

What's funny is that most of these people who hate cash shop are probably pay a subscription fee to an MMO which has a cash shop as well. It's OK for Blizzard, EA, Funcom and Turbine to have one but as soon as ANet does it, GW2 is pay2win.

 

Edit: most importantly, virtually everything in the cash shop can be acquired in the game via normal means, drops, vendors, etc.

The cash shop lets you get them FASTER and EASIER, and the last time I checked, FASTER and EASIER were generally considered to be ADVANTAGES...

Sooo, the fact that the things in the cash shop are pretty things, then i get an advantage to looking seksier than you? oooo wait no you think that if i'm lvl 80 in an instanced BG and you are lvl 40 and i used xp scrolls that im going to insta own you yeah? wrong, one, you get scaled up, 2 it's more about SKILL than GEAR, get this i-have-higher-gear-than-you-cause-i-raided-more-so-i-am-entitled-to-win mentality out of your head, this is NOT WoW, there is NOOOOO gear grind, it's based on SKILL, what you use and HOW you use it, i can tell you this all day long, but you will go back to, but it's the "best gear", there isnt a BEST suit of armor or a "best" weapon, gosh dang people why don't you freaking read into the game, rather than try and learn about it by forums actually look into them. I'm not even for the cash shop and i understand this.

Have you ever participated in a rational argument?

I said nothing about pretty things.  I simply pointed out the FACT that FASTER and EASIER are ADVANTAGES, and nothing you offered has countered that.

Let me translate what gw2 president said to gw2 comunity:

we are very glad to bring gw2 as p2w game model, you dont need to grind but you need to pay to win.

thats was his statement about gw2.

Originally posted by fivoroth
I dont see why no lifers who spend 30-40 hours a week should have a huge gear advantage on me.

I don't see why workaholics working 30-40 hours a week more than me should have more money than me.

O WAIT they should.

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by wolvards

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by heartless

 

Some people's hate for microtransactions is so irrational at times that no matter how trivial the cash shop is, the rage will continue.

What's funny is that most of these people who hate cash shop are probably pay a subscription fee to an MMO which has a cash shop as well. It's OK for Blizzard, EA, Funcom and Turbine to have one but as soon as ANet does it, GW2 is pay2win.

 

Edit: most importantly, virtually everything in the cash shop can be acquired in the game via normal means, drops, vendors, etc.

The cash shop lets you get them FASTER and EASIER, and the last time I checked, FASTER and EASIER were generally considered to be ADVANTAGES...

Sooo, the fact that the things in the cash shop are pretty things, then i get an advantage to looking seksier than you? oooo wait no you think that if i'm lvl 80 in an instanced BG and you are lvl 40 and i used xp scrolls that im going to insta own you yeah? wrong, one, you get scaled up, 2 it's more about SKILL than GEAR, get this i-have-higher-gear-than-you-cause-i-raided-more-so-i-am-entitled-to-win mentality out of your head, this is NOT WoW, there is NOOOOO gear grind, it's based on SKILL, what you use and HOW you use it, i can tell you this all day long, but you will go back to, but it's the "best gear", there isnt a BEST suit of armor or a "best" weapon, gosh dang people why don't you freaking read into the game, rather than try and learn about it by forums actually look into them. I'm not even for the cash shop and i understand this.

Have you ever participated in a rational argument?

I said nothing about pretty things.  I simply pointed out the FACT that FASTER and EASIER are ADVANTAGES, and nothing you offered has countered that.

So what if it's EASIER AND FASTER? You get the same stuff by playing the game. Some people buy gold from gold farmers, some pay others to level up their characters and some buy maxed out accounts. Most people like to just play the game and get rewarded for doing so.

There is nothing in the ANet's cash shop that will make the game easier for you. No stat boosts, no invulnerability items and no uber gear. So you'll reach level 80 faster than me, so what? I say: good for you!

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

 

I'm older, employed and stable (arguably) as well.

 

However, microtransactions allow ArenaNet to leave the door open for more unscrupulous behavior down the road if their bottom line begins to look more red than black. The "I'm too busy to get things done as much" argument, to me, as a busy, employed person such as yourself, still doesn't hold water. If I'm a gamer, then I'll make time to game and get to where I need to be.

 

Guild Wars 2 isn't being designed as a grind game, so there's no need to speed-level through content to get where your guildies/friends are. The game allows you to side-kick up to your friend's levels. These features of the game completely invalidate ArenaNet's argument.

 

I'm the biggest GW apologist on the boards - but don't try and couch the microtransactions as a feature that supposedly alleviates the common problems of the MMORPG genre that you're arguing your new game design takes care of in the first place. (This is directed at Mike O'Brien's argument - not yours necessarily.)

^^^This, so much, this^^^

This exemplifies perfectly, the problem with the cash shop in GW2. The game doesn't need these suppliments but they're still going to be there, this is one of the most overt forms of exploitation of the (less than smart<-- trying to be nice) I've ever seen, mostly due to the rhetoric being used by this guy interviewed.

The worst part is how many who have so much trust in this company.

Originally posted by fivoroth
I dont see why no lifers who spend 30-40 hours a week should have a huge gear advantage on me.

I don't see how no lifers who spend 30-40 hours a week training Tennis should have a huge advantage in Tennis over me. 

Originally posted by NMStudio

 

Have you ever participated in a rational argument?

I said nothing about pretty things.  I simply pointed out the FACT that FASTER and EASIER are ADVANTAGES, and nothing you offered has countered that.

In a vacuum, your statement is 100% correct. Earning something faster that someone else means you have an advantage that that person. The problem is, you're stopping there and not looking at the whole picture.

An advantage in what? Levelling faster? Is it a race? If you're striving for world first, OK cool I can see your point. And if that's your worry, it's 100% valid and I can't argue with you. It's also not something I personally care about, so it doesn't upset me.

Or perhaps, you have the theory that if Bob gets to cap a day before me, he can spend that day farming stuff he could ONLY access at cap level, and then sell that stuff to other people for SKADILLIONS of gold. I've heard this theory before. I can't buy it. First off, he can only make that money if other people are willing to buy and have the money. Second off, he can only make that money if pople can actually USE the stuff he's selling...which if they haven't reached cap yet, they might not. Third, you're assuming there actually IS some commodity he can get at cap level that no one can get prior to cap, yet is still tradeable. That is an aweful lot of ifs.

Now, if we apply this to a larger picture...IF a particular guild insists on all its players spending enough to always have the xp and karma bonsues running they COULD gear up ahead of other guilds, and could give them an advantage in a guild v guild fight. Right up until the point the other players "catch up", at which point the advantage is lost. The only way this would be a PERMANENT advantage is if there was some way that person/guild could use that window of time when they alone were capped to get something no one else could. In the long scheme of thigns, I haven't seen anything that would fit this bill.

If you can provide concrete proof that the advantages gained by an accelerated levelling experience would actually upset gameplay to where other players would not have any chance to compete with the person that caps before them, please provide it. I agree with you there is AN advantage, I just don't see where it is an unfair one or hurts anyone else. It can be beneficial to one person without being detrimental to another.