As a completionist when it come to many games. Obtaining skins trophies and experiencing all of the story and content will likely keep me playing for a long time.

You will have an advantage in that you can play your charatcer better because you play more.  But GW2's design is more fps and not rpg.  The game is geared and targetted more to casual players than MMO veterans and hardcore players.  I am sure many hardcore players wil play GW2 but more as a side game than main game. But the target market is not hardcore or even close. 

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Cromica

snip since the it has nothing to do with what Ankur said =P

GW2 focuses as much as on pve as it does on pvp and imo even more on PVE in some ways.

this and to OP the gear system works very well in GW1. The system in GW2 is more developed than in GW1 to make the gear actually mean more. It forces you to play the game and play it well or move on. If you only want to raid and NEED the new gear to do more damage in a never ending cycle.. not the game for you.

Originally posted by Zippy

You will have an advantage in that you can play your charatcer better because you play more.  But GW2's design is more fps and not rpg.  The game is geared and targetted more to casual players than MMO veterans and hardcore players.  I am sure many hardcore players wil play GW2 but more as a side game than main game. But the target market is not hardcore or even close. 

I think it caters more to PVP players and Roleplaying players which to me seems to be a bigger portion of players than those who only like to pve grind and do none of the above.

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by Cromica

GW2 is a skill based game that features Player vs Player not Player vs Gear.

GW2 focuses as much as on pve as it does on pvp and imo even more on PVE in some ways.

You didn't refute his point at all.

Originally posted by Requiamer

 

---

Originally posted by Khealler
MMOs are for most players also about social interaction.
Time Spend vs Reward is a weird motivation to play a mmo. For example in World of Warcraft I levelled a Holy Priest from 1 to 60, with only a holy spec. It took me about 40 seconds to kill a single mob versus a rogue friend who could sometimes oneshot  the same mob or only spend 6 seconds to kill it. Blizzard ripped me off.  
Another weird motivation is that gear > skill. You really want to be the best because your gear is better? I prefer to be better because I have better skills, better understanding of the mechanics and better teamwork.
Getting back to rewards (items). I cannot count the hours I have spend in Molten Core to help a friend getting a specific drop. Either it was to get that one drop for Thunderfury or just farming mobs for fiery cores to increase reputation, so he could get recipes to craft fire resistance gear. I was not there for myself, nor the other 38 players. We did it to help eachother out. Getting rewarded by gear that dropped was just a bonus.
I'm not in GW2 beta, so I can not tell for sure, but it's hard to imagine that you can only farm nodes as endgame.

---

 

No its not weird, it come from the old rpg where you had to simulate the fact that your character will become better at whatever he do when getting experience. Its just that this simulation isn't very realistically ported in those game, because they follow very simplistic rules. Also the fact player skill become a factor is something that only computer game can afford, in old school rpg and pen& paper, there is no "player skill". So ye this blending between the old school rpg and modern computer game rpg is about this too.

PS: And this also where come from the tab targeting vs fps combat systems debate.

I'm not going to discuss pen and paper versus mmos.

OP was talking about endgame. He was worried about not having a gearwise advantage over someone who didn't spend as much time as him. If it's about statistics you also could play a turnbased game or a real time strategy game. Let the computer calculate the outcome of the battle. We could even start playing text-based mud games again. Or will gamemasters run around ingame and flipping ingame coins when 2 players with the exact same gear duel eachother? Realtime MMOs will be pretty dull when no playerskill is required.

PS : Who's talking about tab-targetting?

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by L0C0Man

Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

Read what I said.

you get the full set of gear and skills for Structured.  you do not get gear or skills for WvW  only a bolstered level

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by L0C0Man

Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

Read what I said.

you get the full set of gear and skills for Structured.  you do not get gear or skills for WvW  only a bolstered level

I dont remember that being mentioned in any of the press releases.

Did you play the beta st4t1ck

Originally posted by Alders

Gear affecting PVP is and will always be stupid. 

As far as PVE goes, i have a sneaky suspicion that the progression is going to be similar in a way to FFXI.  Obviously not to that extreme since gear swaps on the fly are not possible in GW2, but people will be after many different sets of gear for certain specific things.

The whole having 1 set of gear being the best is out the window and i'm really happy about that.  I cannot stress how much i hate tiered sets that have everyone looking exactly the same.

Gear affecting pvp allows player skill to shine through in more ways than merely the actions in combat. I do argue and believe that there should be some sort of progression in gear for pvp. You speak of gear progression in pve and the need for switching to different sets and this same principle matters in pvp. One person may choose to wear gear that is effective at blocking fire damage, another against slash damage, etc, and all of these choices should be ones that make gear matter.

If one were to examine guildwars 2--one flaw that is already present--is that it is not designed for open world pvp where controling mob spawns would equal the ability to both harvest and potentially create "better" pvp gear. What we have instead is the WvW which in my estimation is more akin to  the UO Trammal server with even greater restrictions. None of this bodes well for pvp beyond having it as a esport (arena/WvW) and open world pvp instead--the guild vs guild, player vs player politics are not promoted nor likely to form. 

Gear should matter in pvp if perhaps not as much as choices at least enough to where it is a concern. An example of this that comes to mind is real world combat (e.g., bigger gun wins, better armored wins, tactically geared for the right occasion wins, etc etc etc).

Originally posted by blayugs

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by L0C0Man

Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

Read what I said.

you get the full set of gear and skills for Structured.  you do not get gear or skills for WvW  only a bolstered level

I dont remember that being mentioned in any of the press releases.

Did you play the beta st4t1ck

Nope but the info isnt from the beta, its been fully documented that structured pvp is supposed to be on an even playing field, when you enter everyone has  the weapons, armor, skills, and level of a level 80.

WvW on the other hand everyone is bolstered to the stats of a level 80 but you only have what you came in from pve with weapons armor and skills

If my time isn't rewarded with fun I'm gone. Chasing the carrot only remains fun until it gets repetitive and time consuming, then it becomes a chore. I know other people feel differently, that's fine but I'm happy with the way GW2 is shaping up on that front. The dungeons look intense, a real challenge in explorable mode, I'll have fun playing with my guildies working on different ways to master encounters, team work, social interaction, challenge and a good laugh will be my driving force, not gear.

It's inevitable there will be grind at end game until new content arrives, but that will be for achievements and weapon/armour skins, all purely optional, you're not paying to hang around if none of that suits you.

As much as I want everyone to get in to GW2, if you aren't enjoying what the game has at the beginning and expect the game to start at lvl 80 and not at lvl 1 maybe the game just isn't for you? I'd still encourage you to give it a shot though, you never know you might enjoy it.

Originally posted by blayugs

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by L0C0Man

Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

Read what I said.

you get the full set of gear and skills for Structured.  you do not get gear or skills for WvW  only a bolstered level

I dont remember that being mentioned in any of the press releases.

Did you play the beta st4t1ck

From Arenanet's blog:

"When fighting in the Mists, you’ll be using your regular PvE character and the gear you’ve acquired in your adventures through Tyria. In the Mists, players all fight at the same level. Any character below level 80 will be adjusted so they are roughly equivalent in power to what they would be at level 80. This makes combat among characters of any level not only possible, but actually fun!

Even better, you continue to gain experience and new items while playing in the Mists. Players you kill will drop loot for you just like slain monsters in PvE. The player that was killed doesn’t lose any of their own equipment—that would suck—so you’ll never need to worry about losing your favorite rare weapon if you are defeated in WvW. Even better, any gear that is dropped for you will be level appropriate. You can improve your character’s weapons and armor as you fight!

Character level adjustments have a limit, however. The level-adjustment system won’t let a level 1 character go head-to-head against a level 80 character with much chance of victory—a level 80 character is still going to have more bonuses on their gear and access to a full complement of utility and elite skills that players just don’t have at lower levels. This is not to say that the high-level character will one-shot the level 1 player, but they will have a clear advantage.

So what’s a low-level character to do? Anybody can man a siege weapon, help repair walls, or go hunt down enemy dolyaks, so even new characters can still be useful in the Mists—as long as they pick their fights wisely. Fights are rarely one-on-one affairs, so if you’re just starting out, you’d be wise to find some teammates to fight alongside you as there definitely is strength in numbers."

Source: http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-ferguson-on-guild-wars-2-world-vs-world

Originally posted by hypersan

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by hypersan

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by L0C0Man

Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

No 

gear will be the same. 

only looks will change. 

I would like to see that once the game releases because i doubt that what lvl 1 is wearing will have same stats as what lvl 80 is wearing not to mention the poll of skills avilable to lvl 80 compared to lvl 1 player.

 

 

OK :) we will see I guess.

You're both half right. All gear is relatively the same. Gear has level dependencies, a level 5 piece or armor or weaponry is going to be weaker than a level 50 one. However, all armor/weapon ~of equal level~ is about on-par with each other. For instance, it was shown in a video that gear you get outside of a dungeon might have +20 to stats split between 3 stats, whereas gear inside of a dungeon might have all that +20 focused in one specific area. They're still on par stat-wise, but certain builds will appreciate one piece of gear or the other more. Further, two people with the same exact gear are still differentiated by how that gear gets customized, don't forget there are inscriptions/runes (whatever they're called) that are applied to weapons and armor to add certain stats and abilities. Additionally, full sets of specific runes come with bonus stats, similar to gear set bonuses in other games.

As for the Mists, you are NOT given a full set of equipment. That is structured PvP ONLY. In the Mists, you enter with your actual character, and are boosted to level 80 in terms of overall power. This does NOT take into account someone who is natively level 80, thus has more access to skills, traits and better equipment. The level boost is comparable to sidekicking up to a higher level, for those who have played City of Heroes/Champions/whatever other games do this; you can survive higher level mobs this way, but you're not as strong as someone who is actually that particular level. That's the whole point to the Mists, it gives people who love PvP a way to progress both in exp and gear through pvp, in an open pvp setting, rather than PvE.

Originally posted by Sojhin

Originally posted by Alders

Gear affecting PVP is and will always be stupid. 

As far as PVE goes, i have a sneaky suspicion that the progression is going to be similar in a way to FFXI.  Obviously not to that extreme since gear swaps on the fly are not possible in GW2, but people will be after many different sets of gear for certain specific things.

The whole having 1 set of gear being the best is out the window and i'm really happy about that.  I cannot stress how much i hate tiered sets that have everyone looking exactly the same.

 

 

Gear affecting pvp allows player skill to shine through in more ways than merely the actions in combat. I do argue and believe that there should be some sort of progression in gear for pvp. You speak of gear progression in pve and the need for switching to different sets and this same principle matters in pvp. One person may choose to wear gear that is effective at blocking fire damage, another against slash damage, etc, and all of these choices should be ones that make gear matter.

If one were to examine guildwars 2--one flaw that is already present--is that it is not designed for open world pvp where controling mob spawns would equal the ability to both harvest and potentially create "better" pvp gear. What we have instead is the WvW which in my estimation is more akin to  the UO Trammal server with even greater restrictions. None of this bodes well for pvp beyond having it as a esport (arena/WvW) and open world pvp instead--the guild vs guild, player vs player politics are not promoted nor likely to form. 

Gear should matter in pvp if perhaps not as much as choices at least enough to where it is a concern. An example of this that comes to mind is real world combat (e.g., bigger gun wins, better armored wins, tactically geared for the right occasion wins, etc etc etc).

Some of the points you make in this post are in Gw2,  the part of gear that doesnt mean anything is the plateu of defense.  but with runes and other things that you put on you gear you can have different sets of gear for different situations,  just not more "Powerfull" gear.   5 sets of 80 gear with different runes can be very different from each other

Originally posted by blayugs

The carrot for this game is skill.

The more you play the better you are using your character, there is no gear grind the reward is being better at playing your character.

So its like call of duty? Time spent doesnt matter, a guy who has 400 hours played is equal to the dude who just installed the game the day before?

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by blayugs

The carrot for this game is skill.

The more you play the better you are using your character, there is no gear grind the reward is being better at playing your character.

 

So its like call of duty? Time spent doesnt matter, a guy who has 400 hours played is equal to the dude who just installed the game the day before?

Dont kno the last call of duty you played but you have to get guns and perks unlocked through play.  So fps's are moving more towards the rpg aspects then the other way around

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

From what i understand so far, gear means nothing in Guild wars 2, in both pvp and pve. So that means if you spend hours farming items you wont be better then a dude who say.. just created his character and was boosted to level 80. Gathering nodes are for everyone, so that means everyone can gather from a single node once before it goes away.

So i ask, is time spent playing the game not rewarded? When gear doesnt matter at all, how is it any different then playing call of duty or any other fps game? Why are we doing dungeons if the gear you aquire doesnt matter at all?

Please for the love of fucking christ, stop saying for fun. maybe i am not apart of the generation that find everyone being equal all the time to be fun. I think if i spend 40 hours a week farming dungeons while some guy logs on for 2 hours a day just to explore, /dance on a mail box and maybe pvp for 30minutes before he goes for his dinner with the wife and kids, we should not be equal.

It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks. Im not sure when MMOs became about playing barbie, but i want to do a lot more then just dress of my character to set myself apart from the rest.

Are people really for gear not affecting anything at all besides looks? IN pvp and pve?

First of all, the gear is balanced, not the same. Getting certain gear will still be more or less must for certain builds.

The reason you play without being awarded better gear or stats is however easy: because it is fun (I said it anyways). That is why most people play most games anyways.

I fear that this just isn't a game for you, some people only have fun when they get something that makes them better. You probably would never spend a lot of time playing a regular FPS or RTS game.

As I said, certain gear will be better at certain moments so some hard to get gear will be a priority for many players, just like the latest tier is a top priority for Wow players, but overall is the gear still balanced so even if it is better in certain situations it is still overall at the same powerlevel.

There are runes also however. They are not really balanced and can be put into armor to make it better.

I am all for this, MMOs is to much about gear nowadays. I wish that your character slowly became better all the time though, but then we are talking about stats and skills, not gear.

Not all games are for all players. On the plus side is GW2 just 60 bucks and no monthly fees so if you play it 2 months it is still a good deal.

Originally posted by st4t1ck

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by blayugs

The carrot for this game is skill.

The more you play the better you are using your character, there is no gear grind the reward is being better at playing your character.

 

So its like call of duty? Time spent doesnt matter, a guy who has 400 hours played is equal to the dude who just installed the game the day before?

Dont kno the last call of duty you played but you have to get guns and perks unlocked through play.  So fps's are moving more towards the rpg aspects then the other way around

 

Yeah you do.. but then again, i played codmw3 for a months and i still only use the mp5.. which is a starter weapon...

Which is an example of gear not mattering.

The problem is, fps games are shallow and get stale pretty fast,that was the whole reason i even got started in the MMO genre, i like the idea of taking months to finish a character, not days. I fail to see how getting gear and levels faster is better for the genre.

Once you blow through all the content, then what happens?

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by blayugs

The carrot for this game is skill.

The more you play the better you are using your character, there is no gear grind the reward is being better at playing your character.

 

So its like call of duty? Time spent doesnt matter, a guy who has 400 hours played is equal to the dude who just installed the game the day before?

Of course not. Skill, traits and how you use them are truly what is most important in this game. Yet, do not underestimate your gear. Gear will hold its value to some point, not as much as your skillful play, but still will be one of the factors of success. Also, do not think that getting skills will be piece of cake. It will take time to acquire those skill points and complete skill challenges.

Of course there will be rewards in GW2. In PvE, higher level gear will have increased stat boosts compared to that of low level gear. Equal level gear (ie. epic versus green) will provide more selective stat boosts. The stat difference is minor but the gear skin/model is what makes you stand out from the rest of the pack. What you won't find however, is your traditional gear treadmill.

The fact that some posters have seen few people who actually play MMOs just for fun, speaks volumes about the current state of MMOs and shows, more than anything, how it is time to approach MMOs from a different angle rather than throwing greater gear at your players at an even greater rate, as is the case with your typical gear progression MMO. Whether GW2 will break the current mold remains to be seen but it definitely seems to be a step in the right direction.