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  Nilenya

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 325

3/27/12 6:03:09 AM#121
Originally posted by Banden

I think CCP have used the CSM for a lot of marketing reasons, that makes them a public face, regardless of the player liaison role.

No it doesnt. Sure the CSM is used for marketing to existing customers, but that doesnt make individuel members of the CSM "the official face of CCP", come on. If you see it that way then  thats honestly your own problem.

I just watched the whole thing and its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Im responding to all this hate and rage, because it honestly seems excessive. Have some sense people.

Indeed.

 

But its very interesting in a sociological way, how the pleasent fluffy sheep become ravaging bloodthirsty beasts when they sense weakness in an otherwise unaproachable target.

I personally dont get rocked by this kind of stuff. If I had been at the fan fest I would probably have shouted that he was being an asshat, and to stfu. But then Im a confrontational kind of person and completely unafraid of what other people think of me in a crowd. - why care, if you dont respect them, why care if they "like" you or what you say/do.

I dont believe in bullying the bully, and I dont think a person has to be flogged for his mistakes to the point of them overshadowing everything else about that person. Not to make a point, or make an example. I dont subscribe to that idea, and never will.

 

Im a good person, but I have done crappy things to others. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes out of carelessness and sometimes out of ignorance.

I think of the above mittani was careless, probably because he was drunk. I doubt he would have the success he has with GS if he was a careless person who didnt consider the consequences of his actions in the majority of cases.

 

Carelessness can cause some serious issues - but it doesnt make a person an evil despicable thing. It doesnt even make them a bad person. It just means you found your foot in your mouth and someone somewhere upset or hurt because of your behaviour.

And in this case, if the victim isnt hurt by this, then he has alot of people willing to do the persecution in his place, because everyone gets off on - by proxy- sense of righteouness. - I dont - I find it one of the many shortcommings of man :)

 

But like I said initially, its an interesting sociological play.

 

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3539

Hipster

3/27/12 6:05:32 AM#122
Originally posted by Nilenya
Originally posted by Banden

I think CCP have used the CSM for a lot of marketing reasons, that makes them a public face, regardless of the player liaison role.

No it doesnt. Sure the CSM is used for marketing to existing customers, but that doesnt make individuel members of the CSM "the official face of CCP", come on. If you see it that way then  thats honestly your own problem.

I just watched the whole thing and its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Im responding to all this hate and rage, because it honestly seems excessive. Have some sense people.

Indeed.

 

But its very interesting in a sociological way, how the pleasent fluffy sheep become ravaging bloodthirsty beasts when they sense weakness in an otherwise unaproachable target.

I personally dont get rocked by this kind of stuff. If I had been at the fan fest I would probably have shouted that he was being an asshat, and to stfu. But then Im a confrontational kind of person and completely unafraid of what other people think of me in a crowd. - why care, if you dont respect them, why care if they "like" you or what you say/do.

I dont believe in bullying the bully, and I dont think a person has to be flogged for his mistakes to the point of them overshadowing everything else about that person. Not to make a point, or make an example. I dont subscribe to that idea, and never will.

 

Im a good person, but I have done crappy things to others. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes out of carelessness and sometimes out of ignorance.

I think of the above mittani was careless, probably because he was drunk. I doubt he would have the success he has with GS if he was a careless person who didnt consider the consequences of his actions in the majority of cases.

 

Carelessness can cause some serious issues - but it doesnt make a person an evil despicable thing. It doesnt even make them a bad person. It just means you found your foot in your mouth and someone somewhere upset or hurt because of your behaviour.

And in this case, if the victim isnt hurt by this, then he has alot of people willing to do the persecution in his place, because everyone gets off on - by proxy- sense of righteouness. - I dont - I find it one of the many shortcommings of man :)

 

But like I said initially, its an interesting sociological play.

 

 

I do not believe he should be persecuted, in a previous post I said he should go back to being the biggest villain in New Eden, however life has consequences, he needs to resign from the CSM and put an end to it.
  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

3/27/12 6:08:54 AM#123

Can't believe I read all that, but very good observations above post. (@Mustupha)

I believe the main issue here is that these internet tough guys are blurring the line between in-game behavior, and what you should do in public. Let me throw out an example;

If one of these guys were to mouth off at a rival while *at* the fanfest, only to be reminded that he is now within strangling distance, his reaction would be "calm down, it just a game, tard!"... though, it stopped being a game once you walked away from the PC.

It's like they feel secure enough with their buddies being present to carry the weight of an asshole with them wherever they go, and the kind of actions made by this Mitanni guy are enough to get him shitcanned from whatever real job he may have. Though, I highly doubt any GS higher-up actually works. The whole organization is a pyramid scheme.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Banden

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/11
Posts: 85

3/27/12 6:22:53 AM#124
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Banden

I think CCP have used the CSM for a lot of marketing reasons, that makes them a public face, regardless of the player liaison role.

No it doesnt. Sure the CSM is used for marketing to existing customers, but that doesnt make individuel members of the CSM "the official face of CCP", come on. If you see it that way then  thats honestly your own problem.

I just watched the whole thing and its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Im responding to all this hate and rage, because it honestly seems excessive. Have some sense people.

 

"the official face of CCP" please do not make up quotes and attribute them to me. I think you are the one with the problem and it seems the Mittani agrees with me.

Ok again, what? What part did i make up? Oh, you said "a public face of CCP" lol, great distinction.

Im going to quote my own bit again then:

 its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Thats my subjective opinion.

He was there representing his alliance, not representing CCP as CSM chairman and even then the CSM chairman does not represent CCP in any OFFICIAL sense, which is all that matters really. What you are saying is your subjective view on the CSM and I dont see why CCP should react to that.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

3/27/12 6:28:22 AM#125
Originally posted by Banden

 

 its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Thats my subjective opinion.

He was there representing his alliance, not representing CCP as CSM chairman and even then the CSM chairman does not represent CCP in any OFFICIAL sense, which is all that matters really. What you are saying is your subjective view on the CSM and I dont see why CCP should react to that.

Then it's CCPs fault that a live stream let all that juicy goodness out, which can be construed as such.

This is the kind of stuff that American news channels hunger for. It's only a single stretch away to being compared to schoolyard bullying, teen suicide, and surely at some point; teenage pregnancy. Don't question why, it's just how fearmongering and hot topics work.

It will backfire for CCP... shit... it already is.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3539

Hipster

3/27/12 6:31:15 AM#126
Originally posted by Banden
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Banden

I think CCP have used the CSM for a lot of marketing reasons, that makes them a public face, regardless of the player liaison role.

No it doesnt. Sure the CSM is used for marketing to existing customers, but that doesnt make individuel members of the CSM "the official face of CCP", come on. If you see it that way then  thats honestly your own problem.

I just watched the whole thing and its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Im responding to all this hate and rage, because it honestly seems excessive. Have some sense people.

 

"the official face of CCP" please do not make up quotes and attribute them to me. I think you are the one with the problem and it seems the Mittani agrees with me.

Ok again, what? What part did i make up? Oh, you said "a public face of CCP" lol, great distinction.

Im going to quote my own bit again then:

 its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Thats my subjective opinion.

He was there representing his alliance, not representing CCP as CSM chairman and even then the CSM chairman does not represent CCP in any OFFICIAL sense, which is all that matters really. What you are saying is your subjective view on the CSM and I dont see why CCP should react to that.

 

I used the words I used, deliberately, if you put things in quotation marks get it right.

 

He will resign or be sacked, CCP will not want to deal with the fallout from him using their public platform calling for the harassment of someone with mental health problems so he kills himself.
  MustaphaMond

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/09
Posts: 344

"History is bunk."

3/27/12 6:36:11 AM#127
Originally posted by GTwander

Can't believe I read all that, but very good observations above post. (@Mustupha)

I believe the main issue here is that these internet tough guys are blurring the line between in-game behavior, and what you should do in public. Let me throw out an example;

If one of these guys were to mouth off at a rival while *at* the fanfest, only to be reminded that he is now within strangling distance, his reaction would be "calm down, it just a game, tard!"... though, it stopped being a game once you walked away from the PC.

It's like they feel secure enough with their buddies being present to carry the weight of an asshole with them wherever they go, and the kind of actions made by this Mitanni guy are enough to get him shitcanned from whatever real job he may have. Though, I highly doubt any GS higher-up actually works. The whole organization is a pyramid scheme.

Walls of text are what I do. I realize few read them, but it's always nice to see a couple do from time to time. Thanks.

 

RE: your post... yeah, that's what I mean. Online hazing/trolling/whatever is all well and good, but the whole "in the flesh" nature of what happened here is clearly over the line. I believe it also showcases a real danger with any competitive online environment where harassment is normal. We're all living on borrowed time if this kind of stuff keeps happening. I hate "slippery slope" arguments, but I still feel we're only a few suicides away from stuff like this leading to an end to the anonymity parade.

 

@Nilenya -- I generally agree with what you are saying (despite what I said in the mini-novella), but to chalk up his massive ego to too much booze ignores that his comments came from the inclusion of the complaints of the miner in his slides. Even if he was drunk when he made that slide, which I doubt he was, it still shows forethought and a premeditated willingness to mock the miner's suicide comments publicly. The actual "if you want him to kill himself, here's his name...." stuff he said as an afterthought was likely booze + too much ego, but I think certain topics are just off limits for public ridicule (another player mentioning depressions/suicide being one of them, even if that other player is a lamer too).

  Banden

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/11
Posts: 85

3/27/12 6:39:13 AM#128
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by Banden

 

 its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Thats my subjective opinion.

He was there representing his alliance, not representing CCP as CSM chairman and even then the CSM chairman does not represent CCP in any OFFICIAL sense, which is all that matters really. What you are saying is your subjective view on the CSM and I dont see why CCP should react to that.

Then it's CCPs fault that a live stream let all that juicy goodness out, which can be construed as such.

This is the kind of stuff that American news channels hunger for. It's only a single stretch away to being compared to schoolyard bullying, teen suicide, and surely at some point; teenage pregnancy. Don't question why, it's just how fearmongering and hot topics work.

It will backfire for CCP... shit... it already is.

Hey someone making sense! Yeah the media will jump at it like sharks and represent it on par with facebook bullying, suicides and highschools shootings etc etc. Which is bullshit, but then people love this shite because it feeds their prejudice about videogames and violence. WootWoot, all aboard the outrage train. Great.

  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

3/27/12 6:48:38 AM#129

This guy should be permabanned from the game, IMO. Publicly calling upon others to goad a potentially suicidal man into killing himself is completely unacceptable, even if the whole thing is just an elaborate troll (which is probably the case). CCP needs to set an example and show their playerbase that while trash talk is fine, there is definitely a line which shouldn't be crossed.

Online game companies also need to start self-regulating this kind of thing, or else the government will step in... and that is never a good thing.

  MustaphaMond

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/09
Posts: 344

"History is bunk."

3/27/12 6:50:28 AM#130
Originally posted by Banden
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by Banden

 

 its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Thats my subjective opinion.

He was there representing his alliance, not representing CCP as CSM chairman and even then the CSM chairman does not represent CCP in any OFFICIAL sense, which is all that matters really. What you are saying is your subjective view on the CSM and I dont see why CCP should react to that.

Then it's CCPs fault that a live stream let all that juicy goodness out, which can be construed as such.

This is the kind of stuff that American news channels hunger for. It's only a single stretch away to being compared to schoolyard bullying, teen suicide, and surely at some point; teenage pregnancy. Don't question why, it's just how fearmongering and hot topics work.

It will backfire for CCP... shit... it already is.

Hey someone making sense! Yeah the media will jump at it like sharks and represent it on par with facebook bullying, suicides and highschools shootings etc etc. Which is bullshit, but then people love this shite because it feeds their prejudice about videogames and violence. WootWoot, all aboard the outrage train. Great.

^This x's 9001...

 

As dumb as it is, it only takes something like this for a bunch of clueless politicians and "concerned parents" to start beating the drum for "more regulations" this, "greater penalties" that....

 

I'm old enough to remember when people would kill themselves and it was attributed to Ozzy (or was it Alice Cooper?) and they did it because, supposedly, they had been listening to "satanic" heavy metal/rock music... and I remember when the public freaked out after NWA's "F*ck the Police" gained national notoriety... the result? A bunch of clueless politicians (Al Gore being one of them) took advantage of the free publicity and made a bunch of ridiculous speeches demanding more regulation for the recording industry (and even supported censoring lyrics/music).

 

Fortunately, the recording industry convinced the politicians and public that they would police themselves and we got the joke of an "explicit lyrics" label on tapes and CDs (these were always the ones you wanted to buy as a young person, of course). This is the same reason we have ratings on games (outrage over GTA in particular can be thanked for that stupid development).

 

Up until now, it has amounted to little more than stupid little labels and a (sometimes) minor inconvenience for younger gamers who are trying to buy a MA (17+) game. With the way the media works now, though (and the way videos can go viral), the potential fallout is much greater than warning labels and minor inconveniences. Stuff like Mittani's stupid comments are just another example that clueless politicians and moralizing nuts like Nancy Grace can point to as they scream "VIDEO GAMES AND THE INTERNETS NEED TO BE REGULATED MORE HARSHLY!!!"

  Banden

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/11
Posts: 85

3/27/12 6:52:05 AM#131
Originally posted by Rednecksith

This guy should be permabanned from the game, IMO. Publicly calling upon others to goad a potentially suicidal man into killing himself is completely unacceptable, even if the whole thing is just an elaborate troll (which is probably the case). CCP needs to set an example and show their playerbase that while trash talk is fine, there is definitely a line which shouldn't be crossed.

Online game companies also need to start self-regulating this kind of thing, or else the government will step in... and that is never a good thing.

People should probably watch the video before getting the torches and pitchforks... also the government? which one?

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

3/27/12 7:16:14 AM#132
Originally posted by Banden
...also the government? which one?

Um, the one that can't mind it's own business and likes to flex it's muscle in front of other ones.

Oh wait...

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Calfis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/11
Posts: 304

3/27/12 10:08:42 AM#133
Originally posted by Rednecksith

This guy should be permabanned from the game, IMO. Publicly calling upon others to goad a potentially suicidal man into killing himself is completely unacceptable, even if the whole thing is just an elaborate troll (which is probably the case). CCP needs to set an example and show their playerbase that while trash talk is fine, there is definitely a line which shouldn't be crossed.

Online game companies also need to start self-regulating this kind of thing, or else the government will step in... and that is never a good thing.

Probably won't happen since he apologized, he literally heads the most powerful guild-bloc in the game with roughly 20,000 members (Goons + TESTies + Clusterfuck coalition alliances). They also control about a third of the player conquerable game map. Banning him or a large number of his followers (cuz of stupid shit they might do in supporting their CEO) could be seen as intervening in game politics which CCP doesn't like to do. So they might go thru the motions but at the end of the day they will slap him on the wrist.

  Mors.Magne

Elite Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1264

3/27/12 10:09:49 AM#134

The Mittani has written a full unreserved apology.

This is good enough for me. He is deserving of redemption.

Also, my alliance has just been set blue by the Goons. I don't really know why yet!

 

  Baitness

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/06
Posts: 111

3/27/12 10:21:33 AM#135

As someone who voted for mittens, I just wanted to make sure everyone knows that he gets votes because he makes CCP continue to balance the game, not because he does stuff like this.

 

It is worth giving eve a go, the only problem is it is too hard to leave.  Once a game gives you nearly limitless possibilities, it is hard to look back.

  User Deleted
3/27/12 10:48:24 AM#136
Eve scum is Eve scum. Just because he apologizes doesn't mean he's still not Eve scum. It's amazing how people will protest in-game about a "store with vanity items" but won't protest what this jerkwad did... pathetic...
  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3539

Hipster

3/27/12 2:28:28 PM#137
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

The Mittani has written a full unreserved apology.

This is good enough for me. He is deserving of redemption.

Also, my alliance has just been set blue by the Goons. I don't really know why yet!

 

 

It seems the Mittani also sent this message to GS according to the Eve forum thread here, it's somewhere On page 100 and dotted about before then.

 

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86980

 

 

(2:46:27 PM) directorbot: Gentlegoons, I return from the land of ice, snow and stupid media hit pieces. Whilst I'm in transit back to Madison, please follow Vile Rat's lead on the political fallout. This is not a 2007 threadnaught and I will never abandon you so act like men. Jita will still burn! No matter what.

 

***This was a broadcast from the_mittani to all-all, replies are not monitored***

 

 

Hardly sounds like a mail from the truly contrite. Certainly the GS are out in force and unrepentant for 116 pages so far on that thread so I guess Vile Rat has whipped them up.

 

  kcannon

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/07
Posts: 28

3/27/12 2:31:27 PM#138
Originally posted by ronpack
Eve scum is Eve scum. Just because he apologizes doesn't mean he's still not Eve scum. It's amazing how people will protest in-game about a "store with vanity items" but won't protest what this jerkwad did... pathetic...

Because most are old + wise enough to see it as a joke, and actually saw the video before deciding.

EVE's community has some of the smartest playerbase in any game, go look at the websites/programs that have been built to complement this game. Yes theres the people who use the game and its rules to act like kids and redicule other players in-game thats what happens everyday its part of this game and what gives out community an edge, this plus the difficulty of actually starting the game makes us a very unique community that outisders just do not get, we have the points which we want to riot about. I personally didnt like the small part of the community having a hub-ub about the in-game store, however it did not make me dislike the community anymore then I did 3 years ago when I started playing.

The Mitanni (the guy your on about) has done soo mcuh good stuff for this game, that I believe that if he was forced off or even stepped down off the CSM that we will go backwards and I honestly do not know how this game will end up, but with The Mitanni at the helm of the CSM, I can see myself playing this game 1, 2 and even 5 years from now.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3539

Hipster

3/27/12 2:36:28 PM#139
Originally posted by kcannon
Originally posted by ronpack
Eve scum is Eve scum. Just because he apologizes doesn't mean he's still not Eve scum. It's amazing how people will protest in-game about a "store with vanity items" but won't protest what this jerkwad did... pathetic...

Because most are old + wise enough to see it as a joke, and actually saw the video before deciding.

EVE's community has some of the smartest playerbase in any game, go look at the websites/programs that have been built to complement this game. Yes theres the people who use the game and its rules to act like kids and redicule other players in-game thats what happens everyday its part of this game and what gives out community an edge, this plus the difficulty of actually starting the game makes us a very unique community that outisders just do not get, we have the points which we want to riot about. I personally didnt like the small part of the community having a hub-ub about the in-game store, however it did not make me dislike the community anymore then I did 3 years ago when I started playing.

The Mitanni (the guy your on about) has done soo mcuh good stuff for this game, that I believe that if he was forced off or even stepped down off the CSM that we will go backwards and I honestly do not know how this game will end up, but with The Mitanni at the helm of the CSM, I can see myself playing this game 1, 2 and even 5 years from now.

 

Step Up and Step Down needs to be the message going out to the Mittani.
  Dragonantis

Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/10
Posts: 967

3/27/12 2:39:31 PM#140

Im suprised he wasnt just banned outright for saying that stuff on a live broadcast. Or was he banned, I dont read much into Eve News?

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