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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Playing Mass Effect 3 makes me hate SWTOR even more

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59 posts found
  holdenhamlet

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1178

 
OP  3/26/12 6:21:26 PM#1

So I got Mass Effect 3 and I've been playing it off and on, and am really enjoying what we all love about Bioware: the RPG factor, the action and the story.

None of this is in an MMO.  In Mass Effect 3, your choices can make a huge difference- save or destroy entire species, for example.  The dialogue is great and the characters feel real and distinct.  

In SWTOR, your decisions make no difference, all the characters seem bland, and the excuses for quests are borderline rediculous.

The reason for this is because it's an MMO.  A single player's choice can't change the entire universe because it would be unfair to other players.

But they should've realized this before implementing the choice/voiceover/story model into an MMO.  It's just not compatible.  Suspension of disbelief is thin enough as it is in games like WoW and Rift when you're doing quests and don't have choices and the evil guy you just killed reapears for the next player.

SWTOR was an interesting and incredibly expensive experiment that was flawed from the start.

In brighter news, Mass Effect 3 is great.  I hope Bioware keeps making single player games and if they try another MMO, attempt something different than importing what works for single-player into an MMO.   They're obviously a solid company but man this MMO was a bad idea.

  Cthulhu23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1027

3/26/12 6:24:42 PM#2

Okay, cool.  I'm gonna keep playing it anyway, if that's okay with you.  Since I've never played Mass Effect, and am not a big single player rpg guy, I find TOR's story, flaws and all, to be better than any other MMO I've played.  I'm fully aware that the constraints placed on it by being an MMO don't make it as good as a single player storyline, however.  But I'm cool with that.

  holdenhamlet

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1178

 
OP  3/26/12 6:29:19 PM#3

Yeah that's ok with me.  Obviously lots of people are still playing.  

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

3/26/12 6:38:01 PM#4

I agree.

I have to say big developers still don't understand what's the soul of a good MMORPG, and Bioware made the most un-MMORPG thing they could possibly do by going with a story based MMO

A MMORPG should be player/community driven it doesn't necessarily need a story at all, unlike single player RPGs

In MMORPGs the story/legacy should be made by players

In single player RPGs it's the developer duty to create the story for the player to play.

Lately all MMO developers are adopting the single player approach to their MMORPGs which clearly isn't working on a grand scale.

Online games based on community like Second Life, Farmville, Minecraft have millions of subscribers..............it is time MMORPGs stop being just games and go back to their origin of being virtual words where the players make the content not the developers who should only build the tools for the players.

 

  benasato

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/05
Posts: 203

*stuck in T-pose*

3/26/12 6:58:39 PM#5

Wait till you hit the end of ME3 lol.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

3/26/12 7:38:22 PM#6
Originally posted by benasato

Wait till you hit the end of ME3 lol.

Although I didnt like the ending either, the 30 plus hrs of ME3 stand with the previous 2 titles in series IMO.

 

Currently trying for the Insanity level acheivements. Folks saying games arent hard these days should give it a run. I was progressing slowly but surely till this last Quarian mission, and knowing how much more hectic the last few missions are, I think I am going to go eat some Wheaties....cause nothing short of a breakfast of champions is going to get me thru.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  Bardus

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 475

3/26/12 8:14:32 PM#7

I've already cleared ME3 and TBH the cinematics and VOs surpass TOR's by miles. The whole series does for that matter. It seemed to me the people working on any of the ME games did not work on TOR, especially the directors for the cinematics and VOs. I was worried that ME3 would come out like DA2 but it really is a fine game but also that ending, I'm still trying to figure out what hit me LOL.

 

Something else and on the downside is I tried to play it again but all I do is get a few minutes in and get bored because I know what's about to happen. Good game but with me there is no replayability even though some choices actually do matter far more than in TOR. I bet in a year or so I'll be able to play it through once more maybe. At least I wasn’t the one that paid for it hehe.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

3/26/12 8:26:38 PM#8
Originally posted by Bardus

I've already cleared ME3 and TBH the cinematics and VOs surpass TOR's by miles. The whole series does for that matter. It seemed to me the people working on any of the ME games did not work on TOR, especially the directors for the cinematics and VOs. I was worried that ME3 would come out like DA2 but it really is a fine game but also that ending, I'm still trying to figure out what hit me LOL.

 

Something else and on the downside is I tried to play it again but all I do is get a few minutes in and get bored because I know what's about to happen. Good game but with me there is no replayability even though some choices actually do matter far more than in TOR. I bet in a year or so I'll be able to play it through once more maybe. At least I wasn’t the one that paid for it hehe.

Then your application for BW fanboi has been denied.

 

I am currently on my 3rd playthru, and still have a number of ME2 saves I need to run thru ME3. Thus my BW "good guy club" card has been revalidated.

 

47 of 52 acheivements completed thus far, and I am finding the Insanity run thru tougher than the prior 2 games. When completed, it will knock out 2 more, and leave me with the 5k body count and 2 online MP based ones to complete.

 

Hopefully BW hits us with some great DLC ala ME2.  I really enjoyed Overlord, Shadow Broker, Kasumi, and Arrival add ons. In that order for favorites.

 

As for wondering about who made it.....the teams dealing with the 3 games are all pretty much seperate.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  wizlmtz

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/08
Posts: 21

mmmhmmmm

3/26/12 9:15:17 PM#9
Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Okay, cool.  I'm gonna keep playing it anyway, if that's okay with you.  Since I've never played Mass Effect, and am not a big single player rpg guy, I find TOR's story, flaws and all, to be better than any other MMO I've played.  I'm fully aware that the constraints placed on it by being an MMO don't make it as good as a single player storyline, however.  But I'm cool with that.

Your obviously still leveling up! Enjoy it while you can! After being 50 for about month, there was nothing else for me to do. Im not hardcore & cleared all the endgame pve (norm, hard & nightmare modes). SWTOR does have better end game than WAR online, but that's not saying much! I hope whatever class your playing doesn't get hit by the nerf bat, I played an Operative (only 3% of the pop played) but if you play a more popular class you should be safe. They won't nerf what everyone's playing, they can't afford the loss of subs. I know quite a few people who have already quit. Once Diablo 3 hits, (5/15/12) I doubt there will be much of a population & they'll have to merge servers. I should sell my account now while it has value. Wanna buy it? :)

  User Deleted
3/27/12 7:47:21 AM#10

In same boat here.

After playing ME3 i dont really have any desire of playing SWTOR for story part.

Its seems just waaaaaaaay dumbed down, in name of MMO.

In fact, while playing ME3 i kept thinking: "Why SWTOR isnt more like this" lol

*shrug*

P.S. i dont hate SWTOR, i just fee its waaaaaaaaay too...generic

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

3/27/12 7:51:01 AM#11

Both Swtor and ME3 are simplified in way they tell story and overall game mechanics.

Diffrence is ME3 is bit bit better also cause as single player game it can do certain things better story-wise.

 

Still imho ME series is way overrated and I don't plan to ever buy BW "cinematic-story" game anymore. Too cinematic and dumbed down for me...

  User Deleted
3/27/12 10:11:37 AM#12
Originally posted by fenistil

Both Swtor and ME3 are simplified in way they tell story and overall game mechanics.

Diffrence is ME3 is bit bit better also cause as single player game it can do certain things better story-wise.

 

Still imho ME series is way overrated and I don't plan to ever buy BW "cinematic-story" game anymore. Too cinematic and dumbed down for me...

By no means its BG or original Fallouts, but i had most fun playing ME series in past few yeras over any other game (except civilization) *shrug*

  dougmysticey

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/06
Posts: 1182

3/27/12 10:30:45 AM#13
Originally posted by wizlmtz
Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Okay, cool.  I'm gonna keep playing it anyway, if that's okay with you.  Since I've never played Mass Effect, and am not a big single player rpg guy, I find TOR's story, flaws and all, to be better than any other MMO I've played.  I'm fully aware that the constraints placed on it by being an MMO don't make it as good as a single player storyline, however.  But I'm cool with that.

Your obviously still leveling up! Enjoy it while you can! After being 50 for about month, there was nothing else for me to do. Im not hardcore & cleared all the endgame pve (norm, hard & nightmare modes). SWTOR does have better end game than WAR online, but that's not saying much! I hope whatever class your playing doesn't get hit by the nerf bat, I played an Operative (only 3% of the pop played) but if you play a more popular class you should be safe. They won't nerf what everyone's playing, they can't afford the loss of subs. I know quite a few people who have already quit. Once Diablo 3 hits, (5/15/12) I doubt there will be much of a population & they'll have to merge servers. I should sell my account now while it has value. Wanna buy it? :)

 I have two 50s with my main guild on the Republic side. I do my dailys and some Warzones, I have done all the Ops and HM FPs with them on the rep side. I even spent a fair amount of time on Illum. Now, I was blessed by being on a server (maybe even the only one) that has an equal or higher Republic population than Empire (The Shadowlands) so that helps.

We have had max level events in Outlaws Den where we face off with other guilds, including our rival and I still enjoy hitting the Ops again as well as some of the FPs.

I am now leveling on the Empire side and still enjoying the game. SO FAR I still have plenty to do.

Now, on the choice doesn't matter comments that other have made. There are times where your choice does impact your story line though at times it may not always be obvious. I can think of a few times during the Trooper story where what I did had farther reaching effects than I suspected.

SPOILER ALERT- I am going to give an example of this so If you don't want it ruined for you read no further.

During one of the chapter ending segments I was asked to assign members of Hacov squad to certain tasks. I opted to have Jorgen lead one particularly dangerous part. While he and those with him succeeded he was injured. He literally was in the medical bay and NOT available to me to take with me for the better part of a week or so of real time. To me, that had an impact from my choices.

During the Trooper storyline you have the chance to romance a character named Jaxo. You will even get a chance to go back and visit her from time to time. I was also romancing Elara. Late in the story, I had to make a crazy choice to save many or sacrifice one. That one was Jaxo. I chose to sacrifice her for the greater good and she was gone, dead, forever not romancable. As I understand it, if you choose to save her you have a major falling out with Elara and can still romance Jaxo. That seems to have an impact to me.

Now, being an MMO this can't have the same sweeping impacts than a single player game like ME3 does but there are impacts to your actions. There are others but I thought those two were reasonable examples.

That said, there are plenty that seem like they should and don't appear to effect anything. I suspend disbelief and have no problem with it.

Oh, and not one of my friends has left, rage quit, or anything of the like. My guild is still extremely large so I am not so ready to claim doom and gloom for this game as others. I  will enjoy what I can until I don't enjoy it any longer and then I will be done with it until they add stuff to allow me to enjoy it again.

 

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4151

Trolls will be ignored

3/27/12 10:40:21 AM#14
Originally posted by dougmysticey
Originally posted by wizlmtz
Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Okay, cool.  I'm gonna keep playing it anyway, if that's okay with you.  Since I've never played Mass Effect, and am not a big single player rpg guy, I find TOR's story, flaws and all, to be better than any other MMO I've played.  I'm fully aware that the constraints placed on it by being an MMO don't make it as good as a single player storyline, however.  But I'm cool with that.

Your obviously still leveling up! Enjoy it while you can! After being 50 for about month, there was nothing else for me to do. Im not hardcore & cleared all the endgame pve (norm, hard & nightmare modes). SWTOR does have better end game than WAR online, but that's not saying much! I hope whatever class your playing doesn't get hit by the nerf bat, I played an Operative (only 3% of the pop played) but if you play a more popular class you should be safe. They won't nerf what everyone's playing, they can't afford the loss of subs. I know quite a few people who have already quit. Once Diablo 3 hits, (5/15/12) I doubt there will be much of a population & they'll have to merge servers. I should sell my account now while it has value. Wanna buy it? :)

 I have two 50s with my main guild on the Republic side. I do my dailys and some Warzones, I have done all the Ops and HM FPs with them on the rep side. I even spent a fair amount of time on Illum. Now, I was blessed by being on a server (maybe even the only one) that has an equal or higher Republic population than Empire (The Shadowlands) so that helps.

We have had max level events in Outlaws Den where we face off with other guilds, including our rival and I still enjoy hitting the Ops again as well as some of the FPs.

I am now leveling on the Empire side and still enjoying the game. SO FAR I still have plenty to do.

Now, on the choice doesn't matter comments that other have made. There are times where your choice does impact your story line though at times it may not always be obvious. I can think of a few times during the Trooper story where what I did had farther reaching effects than I suspected.

SPOILER ALERT- I am going to give an example of this so If you don't want it ruined for you read no further.

During one of the chapter ending segments I was asked to assign members of Hacov squad to certain tasks. I opted to have Jorgen lead one particularly dangerous part. While he and those with him succeeded he was injured. He literally was in the medical bay and NOT available to me to take with me for the better part of a week or so of real time. To me, that had an impact from my choices.

During the Trooper storyline you have the chance to romance a character named Jaxo. You will even get a chance to go back and visit her from time to time. I was also romancing Elara. Late in the story, I had to make a crazy choice to save many or sacrifice one. That one was Jaxo. I chose to sacrifice her for the greater good and she was gone, dead, forever not romancable. As I understand it, if you choose to save her you have a major falling out with Elara and can still romance Jaxo. That seems to have an impact to me.

Now, being an MMO this can't have the same sweeping impacts than a single player game like ME3 does but there are impacts to your actions. There are others but I thought those two were reasonable examples.

That said, there are plenty that seem like they should and don't appear to effect anything. I suspend disbelief and have no problem with it.

Oh, and not one of my friends has left, rage quit, or anything of the like. My guild is still extremely large so I am not so ready to claim doom and gloom for this game as others. I  will enjoy what I can until I don't enjoy it any longer and then I will be done with it until they add stuff to allow me to enjoy it again.

 

My experience is similiar, except I started in empire and am now leveling on the republic side. And yes contrary to what is said around here, your choices DO affect your storyline. they are not as sweeping as in a single player game, but they are far bigger than in any MMO I've played.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Salenger

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/29/04
Posts: 512

The true character of a man can be seen when they are given power.

3/27/12 10:53:41 AM#15

ME3 is graphically amazing, good storyline...but i find the fun isnt all that fun...its an intersting game dont get me wrong but my problem with it is the gameplay is much like so many other console action shooters...where you take cover and fire from behind it...its been that way since GOW and i never liked it then...im more of an FPS gamer.   Aside from that they did a great job with the visuals which in my opinion are the best part about the game, I also feel that outside of the main story like ME3 gets very...very boring and i find myself pressing the spacebar a lot just to get through it...in fact even with the main story now ive become bored (not completed game) and just rush through the game so i can finish and then uninstall it.

Now what Bioware did with SWTOR is was basically milking the cash cow but problem is the released the game 3-4 years too late, if SWTOR would have been out in 2009..even 2010 it would have had a lot less negative feedback but at this point MMORPG gamers are sick of the cookie cutter genre of games...we have all been fed recycled crap for over 10 years now and even if the story and world change the basic concept that has been the core in 90% of MMOS to date has become way beyond stale.

Thing is the Single player game market especially games like ME3 that are both console and PC have a much richer market and can get a lot more financial support in their development.  ME1 was literally a fraction of what it took to make ME3 financially, MMOs dont usually get that same kind of luck as most take many years to complete and get right.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

3/27/12 1:24:51 PM#16
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by fenistil

Both Swtor and ME3 are simplified in way they tell story and overall game mechanics.

Diffrence is ME3 is bit bit better also cause as single player game it can do certain things better story-wise.

 

Still imho ME series is way overrated and I don't plan to ever buy BW "cinematic-story" game anymore. Too cinematic and dumbed down for me...

By no means its BG or original Fallouts, but i had most fun playing ME series in past few yeras over any other game (except civilization) *shrug*

Good for you. Sadly for me I cannot share your satisfaction from those ME games....

 

Yeah Civilization is fun though. Love Civ IV + expansions packs + mods.

  Valentina

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/06
Posts: 1665

3/27/12 1:29:18 PM#17

Um, in SWTOR your decisions make all the difference, even regular missions' outcomes will come back at you in the future with the decision's you've made. BioWare has said this a couple of times, it's just a matter of time. In ME1, you didn't see the outcome of your decisions really until ME2, in DA1 you didn't see the outcome of your decisions until DA2 etc...Story updates are on the horizon and your decisions are going to show up.

 

Your personal story decisions already show the outcome, though to some degree more than any choices you made in their singleplayer games right off the bat.

 

Edit: Plus, what MMO has come close to what BioWare has given us with SW:TOR right off the bat? Um, none. :)

  Jason2444

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/11
Posts: 383

3/27/12 5:34:11 PM#18
Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Okay, cool.  I'm gonna keep playing it anyway, if that's okay with you.  Since I've never played Mass Effect, and am not a big single player rpg guy, I find TOR's story, flaws and all, to be better than any other MMO I've played.  I'm fully aware that the constraints placed on it by being an MMO don't make it as good as a single player storyline, however.  But I'm cool with that.

So you're paying a sub fee for a games story that isn't as good as games that don't cost 15 a month?

 

Cool story bro! You are the cancer killing gaming!

MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts

  Jason2444

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/11
Posts: 383

3/27/12 5:36:44 PM#19
Originally posted by Valentina 

Edit: Plus, what MMO has come close to what BioWare has given us with SW:TOR right off the bat? Um, none. :)

All of them, since SWTOR shouldn't even qualify as an MMO

MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts

  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 947

3/27/12 5:39:43 PM#20

Story worked for SWTOR enough to get them 1.7 million subs. Thats pretty substantial, hell, 1 million is substantial. As long as they continue making content and the game profits --story worked.

And just to clarify, the team making SWTOR and the team making ME games are completely different groups of developers. Bioware is a pretty big company now.

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