For a game called Guild Wars it is sounding more and more like it is pointless to have one on the pve side of the game with no content bigger then 5mans. Not sure how this is considered actual competition.

All this will do is make people keep playing [insert themepark] for actual pve end game and Gw2 for pvp. So sad they took the lazy approach and did not include end game. ALSO FOR ANYONE WHO GOES ZOMG PURE IS TROLLING DERRRR

Aion's end game consisted only of 5mans for pve end game on launch and fort battles for pvp and we see how that ended up. Do not be hypocrites and criticize one and not the other.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

(But if WvWvW will mean long term pvp fun by the buckets (rather than "repetitive XL battleground") that might change).

We already know that WvWvW is not a battleground PVP it's open world PVP

Not really. It's still in an instanced off part of the game with predetermined objectives. Also there are examples of large battlegrounds like AV in WOW (which also happens to have small group and single player secondary objectives) which kind of closes the gap between battlegrounds and world pvp. i.e. I wonder if WvWvW still feels like being in a vast BG such as AV.

This is wrong, it is open world. One could say every zone in wow is instanced, but that wouldn't make them not open. Basiclly, can anyone enter, is there a player cap ? If no then its open world.

...

 

 

 

So since there is a player cap your saying it isn't open world?

Originally posted by niceguy3978

Originally posted by QSatu

Originally posted by C1d0s

I think some of us are confused on what "open world" actually entails.

While there is a difference between zones and instances, the actual map in which you partcipate in WvWvW is instanced in the fact it requires you go through a specific portal to spawn. Thusly, it is impossible for outsiders to join merely by happen-stance or from a bordering zone - of which there are none because it's an instance.

Also, there's a 100v100 player limit, which also refutes the idea that this is open world PVP. Legitimate open world PVP is pretty much stapled by the fact that anyone, at any time, from anywhere can jump in and participate in combat without any such limitation. 

If that is the case then wouldn't most mmos be instanced then? since most new mmos have limit to the number of players there can be in the zone. Tera has channels so it means it's instanced by your definition?

 

Yes, almost every mmo released in the last 6 years has used instances.  Any copy of a zone is an "instance" of that zone.  SWTOR is the best recent example.  At launch you may have had 5 or 6 copies or instances of the starter zones/planets.  The only instances in wow are the dungeons and bg's.  But AOC and SWTOR both had full zone instances or copies.

What you both are referring to are called shards. You are correct in your definition as they are instances of a particular zone which are separated to promote  smoother, less laggy gameplay by means of alleviating clutter.

I'll use World of Warcraft as an example, seeing how it's one of the only games I am familiar with on an extensive level.

1. No zones are restricted to a population. There are NO shards. Period.
2. Prior to Battlegrounds, open world PVP was all there was. There were no boundries, there were no population restrictions.

Originally posted by HorrorScope

How does the NDA work? Media is allowed to talk about last weekends beta, but others are not? Just wondering. I have some opinions myself, but cannot share. Thanks.

 

I have some strong opinions I would like to share as well. But I think we have to keep quiet until the NDA is lifted.

Originally posted by evicton

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

(But if WvWvW will mean long term pvp fun by the buckets (rather than "repetitive XL battleground") that might change).

We already know that WvWvW is not a battleground PVP it's open world PVP

Not really. It's still in an instanced off part of the game with predetermined objectives. Also there are examples of large battlegrounds like AV in WOW (which also happens to have small group and single player secondary objectives) which kind of closes the gap between battlegrounds and world pvp. i.e. I wonder if WvWvW still feels like being in a vast BG such as AV.

This is wrong, it is open world. One could say every zone in wow is instanced, but that wouldn't make them not open. Basiclly, can anyone enter, is there a player cap ? If no then its open world.

...

 

 

 

So since there is a player cap your saying it isn't open world?

Nice one.

Anyway, it's just pointless to argue with some people. WvWvW is what it is but it isn't open world pvp. I only called it "instance" in the first place to explain how it is seperated from the main gameworld, which it is, very much so. Also it is divided in 4 seperate sub areas ...

Like I said; you can call WvWvW "instanced", "zoned" or "herpderpia'd", it doesn't change the fact that it isn't open world pvp. Let's just call it "World versus World versus World pvp" and stop with the pointless semantics.

Originally posted by Arcona

there is only one mmorpg that is not instanced, Eve Online.

All other are split into

servers -> zones -> instances

WEll one could argue that eve is the most zoned mmo i have played.

Though not instanced.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by evicton

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

(But if WvWvW will mean long term pvp fun by the buckets (rather than "repetitive XL battleground") that might change).

We already know that WvWvW is not a battleground PVP it's open world PVP

Not really. It's still in an instanced off part of the game with predetermined objectives. Also there are examples of large battlegrounds like AV in WOW (which also happens to have small group and single player secondary objectives) which kind of closes the gap between battlegrounds and world pvp. i.e. I wonder if WvWvW still feels like being in a vast BG such as AV.

This is wrong, it is open world. One could say every zone in wow is instanced, but that wouldn't make them not open. Basiclly, can anyone enter, is there a player cap ? If no then its open world.

...

 

 

 

So since there is a player cap your saying it isn't open world?

Nice one.

Anyway, it's just pointless to argue with some people. WvWvW is what it is but it isn't open world pvp. I only called it "instance" in the first place to explain how it is seperated from the main gameworld, which it is, very much so. Also it is divided in 4 seperate sub areas ...

Like I said; you can call WvWvW "instanced", "zoned" or "herpderpia'd", it doesn't change the fact that it isn't open world pvp. Let's just call it "World versus World versus World pvp" and stop with the pointless semantics.

 

WEll thast been edited, but it being divided doesn't make it instanced in anyway what-so-ever. Its not semantics its you wanted to redifine open world as you inccorect believe it to be.

However, because i am do care to be accurate, its not OPEN world.

It actually has a 300 player cap per INSTANCE and therefore 100% not open world.

EDIT - most recent ANET posts say at least ~500 per map. Still not open world tho.

The exploration aspect of GW2 has me sold.

Originally posted by niceguy3978

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

(But if WvWvW will mean long term pvp fun by the buckets (rather than "repetitive XL battleground") that might change).

We already know that WvWvW is not a battleground PVP it's open world PVP

Not really. It's still in an instanced off part of the game with predetermined objectives. Also there are examples of large battlegrounds like AV in WOW (which also happens to have small group and single player secondary objectives) which kind of closes the gap between battlegrounds and world pvp. i.e. I wonder if WvWvW still feels like being in a vast BG such as AV.

Nope WvWvW happens in a zone which is not the same as an instance,you do know the differance from a zone and an instance,ermm obviously not.An instance is a part of the world where only you and your group can enter,it's not open to anyone else except your group.

WvWvW happens in a zone where anyone can enter at anytime,it's persistant not like an instance.

Structual PVP is the same as WOW battlegrounds not WvWvW.

Guess you learn something new everyday but you should know the differance by now.

 

,structual PVP is your battleground type PvP but you know this already.

Yesh.

Why would you have a problem with battleground PVP anyway,your favorite game has it.

Wut?

swtor.

I'm not talking about your latest fad either. 

Doublewut?!

 Double swtor.

 

Now you know the differance from a zone and an instance,glad i could help you.

Uhm, where to start?

Oh yes ... you can call it instance, you can call it zone, you can even call it herpderpia ... it's still outside of the regular gameworld and even split up in four seperate sub-herpderpias (one home herpderpia for each server and one shared).

"Open world" pvp? Not really.

Also if you really want to go semantics: two week rotations still isn't persistent.

Also also: why u so vengeful, Sylvarii?

 

Nope it's not an instance,it's a zone that allows anyone to enter,that's not the same as an instance.

WvWvW happens in a zone not an instance,in that zone it's open world PVP not like WOW where you have PVP servers that aloow PVP anywhere but open world pvp in a zone that is not an instance.

Ill let Colin Johanson explain it to you.

 

“The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server. We think we will have those bonds because your server is matched up against two other servers. So it is just that much more important that you become friends and you bond with the players on your server. So the friends you make through PvE and Dynamic Events, those friends will carry over into World vs. World PvP. You may get out of World vs. World PvP and go back to early zones to do events with new people and help encourage them to join you in the fight for your server to take part in battles and beat the other two. We expect large strong communities on each server and I think PvP will end up affecting PvE because people will work together.” -Colin Johanson (Lead Content Designer)

 

 

It isn't open world because, well, you can't pvp in the world.  Only in that one zone.  Maybe open zone pvp would be a more appropriate term, at least moreso than open world, because it simply isn't.

 

So let's see, Open World PvP means:  the ability to PvP in the 'main' PvE world.  Now what does PvE world mean?  The place the story line evolves?  The place characters progress/level?  The place where people COULD be ganked and harassed if they did not WANT to PvP? A second server choice where people could co-operate, protect, and help each other NOT be ganked and build comeraderie, etc.

So if you feel that the very last description is what you want, then choose a main server, and then choose to play only in W v W.  You will get loot drops from killing others, ganking will not be available (well you wouldn't think so since there is no one playing in this area that wouldn't expect another player to NOT kill them), you will have 4 different zones/maps/whatevers to infiltrate and fight over, you can either kill mobs, or enlist mobs to help your side, oh yeah AND you can totally level to max level in W v W (W v W does not level you to max level automatically)

Originally posted by SlickShoes

"There are few things that will leave players scratching their heads".

 

What are these things? Everything else sounds good but to drop that in at the end and not go in to any detail at all seems a bit weird.

See, it left you scratching your head!

Originally posted by QSatu

Originally posted by Rohn

So, it has good graphics, combat, the ability to group, quests, and multiple races.

Wow, that's never been done before....

For all the hype, that's what I'm hearing - when actually playing it, this game is a lot "more of the same" than ANet has been making it sound.

Have to wait and see.

If that's what you read then I advice you to re-read it a few more times. Reading comprehension ftw.

Really don't bother.  I sincerely don't want people ingame that have so little interest in the game that they can't even read or research anything about the game.  That would include a LOT of people from this site.  Are those really the kind of gamers you want to play side by side with even for a few days?  Not I.  I have TOTALLY quit trying to "convince" people of anything good about Anet or GW2.  It just means that the people who actually WANT TO BE THERE will be there.  Those are the people with whom I want to play the game.  Know what I mean?

From Wikipedia:

...an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area...

Is WvW limited to certain number of players? Maybe, I dont know.

Is WvW open-world PvP? Definately not.

Are the Continents similar like the ones in WoW Instanced areas? Well no. They ARE separated by Zeppelins/Ships/Dark Portals, but they are not instanced. If the same case would be with WvW zones, they wont be instanced on any way or form.

If the WvW zones create another copy for every 100 or 200 or w/e people then it will be instanced.

Separated Areas =/= Instanced Areas. This topic is becoming not old, but ancient. Get over it people.

Originally posted by Puremallace

For a game called Guild Wars it is sounding more and more like it is pointless to have one on the pve side of the game with no content bigger then 5mans. Not sure how this is considered actual competition.

 

All this will do is make people keep playing [insert themepark] for actual pve end game and Gw2 for pvp. So sad they took the lazy approach and did not include end game. ALSO FOR ANYONE WHO GOES ZOMG PURE IS TROLLING DERRRR

 

Aion's end game consisted only of 5mans for pve end game on launch and fort battles for pvp and we see how that ended up. Do not be hypocrites and criticize one and not the other.

 

\ok i Edited my post, because i saw your point. However, i dont see how is 5 man bad thing. This is not a Hardcore raiding game, you will be dissapointed if you are looking for 25 man-raid hardcore GS hunt.

Originally posted by Valentina

Every game has it's flaws, and it's strengths and GW2 will not be magically exempt from this. The personal story system from everything we've seen so far does indeed appear to be lacking pretty heavily, since it seems to totally displace you from the game-world and put you in this weird backdrop situation, with static characters. The game world seems impressive enough, but with no real end-game as part of their ideology with this game, I wonder how long this game will hold sustained interest in the majority of the gaming community. The game definitely is looking impressive in many ways, I'll be playing with many of you when launch is finally here...But I probably won't be canceling my SW:TOR subscription for this, and I don't think many other people will be, either. Partially due to the fact you don't need to since this game has no sub-fee, but also because there *will* be things that aren't quite to standard with GW2 that you'll only find in a game like SW:TOR, or even older MMO's.

 

Raiding is one of the main reasons why I stopped playing MMOs. You hit max level and you are forced to raid. I don't even try new MMOs anymore. I know that I will go through all the levels and once I hit max level I will have nothing to do because the main focus is on raiding.

GW1 didn't have raiding and there was lots to do once you hit max level. GW2 is even better.

While there is a disclaimer in the opening paragraph, my expectation is that an article titled "So Much to Do in Tyria" should provide a high-level view of a significant amount of topics and features. Instead, the article touches on some very basic functionality and barely even mentions PvP, WvWvW, crafting, or other systems. I would have titled this as a surface-level preview of the first few hours of gameplay instead of the title on the article currently.

Nice video and efort i must admit but at the end GW2 will be what GW1 was "WOW for poor people".

Originally posted by koljane

Nice video and efort i must admit but at the end GW2 will be what GW1 was "WOW for poor people".

Huh?

Originally posted by Roybe

Originally posted by niceguy3978

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by DarkPony

(But if WvWvW will mean long term pvp fun by the buckets (rather than "repetitive XL battleground") that might change).

We already know that WvWvW is not a battleground PVP it's open world PVP

Not really. It's still in an instanced off part of the game with predetermined objectives. Also there are examples of large battlegrounds like AV in WOW (which also happens to have small group and single player secondary objectives) which kind of closes the gap between battlegrounds and world pvp. i.e. I wonder if WvWvW still feels like being in a vast BG such as AV.

Nope WvWvW happens in a zone which is not the same as an instance,you do know the differance from a zone and an instance,ermm obviously not.An instance is a part of the world where only you and your group can enter,it's not open to anyone else except your group.

WvWvW happens in a zone where anyone can enter at anytime,it's persistant not like an instance.

Structual PVP is the same as WOW battlegrounds not WvWvW.

Guess you learn something new everyday but you should know the differance by now.

 

,structual PVP is your battleground type PvP but you know this already.

Yesh.

Why would you have a problem with battleground PVP anyway,your favorite game has it.

Wut?

swtor.

I'm not talking about your latest fad either. 

Doublewut?!

 Double swtor.

 

Now you know the differance from a zone and an instance,glad i could help you.

Uhm, where to start?

Oh yes ... you can call it instance, you can call it zone, you can even call it herpderpia ... it's still outside of the regular gameworld and even split up in four seperate sub-herpderpias (one home herpderpia for each server and one shared).

"Open world" pvp? Not really.

Also if you really want to go semantics: two week rotations still isn't persistent.

Also also: why u so vengeful, Sylvarii?

 

Nope it's not an instance,it's a zone that allows anyone to enter,that's not the same as an instance.

WvWvW happens in a zone not an instance,in that zone it's open world PVP not like WOW where you have PVP servers that aloow PVP anywhere but open world pvp in a zone that is not an instance.

Ill let Colin Johanson explain it to you.

 

“The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server. We think we will have those bonds because your server is matched up against two other servers. So it is just that much more important that you become friends and you bond with the players on your server. So the friends you make through PvE and Dynamic Events, those friends will carry over into World vs. World PvP. You may get out of World vs. World PvP and go back to early zones to do events with new people and help encourage them to join you in the fight for your server to take part in battles and beat the other two. We expect large strong communities on each server and I think PvP will end up affecting PvE because people will work together.” -Colin Johanson (Lead Content Designer)

 

 

It isn't open world because, well, you can't pvp in the world.  Only in that one zone.  Maybe open zone pvp would be a more appropriate term, at least moreso than open world, because it simply isn't.

 

So let's see, Open World PvP means:  the ability to PvP in the 'main' PvE world.  Now what does PvE world mean?  The place the story line evolves?  The place characters progress/level?  The place where people COULD be ganked and harassed if they did not WANT to PvP? A second server choice where people could co-operate, protect, and help each other NOT be ganked and build comeraderie, etc.

 

So if you feel that the very last description is what you want, then choose a main server, and then choose to play only in W v W.  You will get loot drops from killing others, ganking will not be available (well you wouldn't think so since there is no one playing in this area that wouldn't expect another player to NOT kill them), you will have 4 different zones/maps/whatevers to infiltrate and fight over, you can either kill mobs, or enlist mobs to help your side, oh yeah AND you can totally level to max level in W v W (W v W does not level you to max level automatically)

 

No, that is still open zone pvp.  It is like Wintergrasp without a timer on steroids.   I've never heard, before this game came around, anyone refer to a game that had a zone where you were flagged for pvp, but you couldn't pvp anywhere else but battlegrounds as an open world pvp game.  Because it isn't by definition.  You cannot go in 24 of the 25 zones and pvp in them.  You only get to pvp in 1 out of 25 zones.  

Anyone trying to make the argument that WvWvW is actually open world PvP simply doesn't know what open world PvP is.  What GW2 has is large scale INSTANCED PvP objectives. That's it.  It's not part of the actual gameworld...it's completely separate.  Hence...NOT open world.  It's no different than a large scale, 2 week battleground that you don't have to queue for.  Now maybe it's not technically "instanced" by definition, but I consider anything in which a group of people is pulled out of the gameworld into another area and sectioned off via loading screen an "instance."   

Open World PvP means you can PvP anwhere in the world you want.  There is a sense of danger while out questing because you are constantly looking over your shoulder for the other guy.  There is always the possibility that random skirmishes will break out between the two sides at any point, if it's instituted correctly.

It's a very simple concept, yet some of the GW2 fans on this thread who are arguing that GW2 is "open world" simply can't seem to grasp it.  

So... is EvE online not really open world PvP either because you can't "really" PvP in high sec besides suicide ganking?

Or are you counting Faction and war decs too?

Doesn't sound very OPEN if there are so many rules and limitations.

And how is EvE an open world/galaxy when every.single.system is its own zone?

Or is there a way to travel from one system to another without gates or jump drives no one told me about?

Every time I jumped to a new system in EvE I saw my ship and the surroundings "pop" (unload/load)

I mean, doesn't sound open if you can't just wander from one system to the next at sublight/warp.

This ^ was done to prove a point - if you break something down enough, get SO incredibly detailed, you can find a way to pretty much discount anything.