Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by RefMinor
Can I just throw in this quote as it sums up all of the genres ills (and society's too). I want to keep this LucasArts quote alive.

 

"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."

An all time classic.

I'll see that and raise you some selected quotes from the infamous unedited Dan Rubenfeld (senior programmer that worked on the NGE or whatever his damn title was)  "Om-Nom-Nom" blog post:

(Full text at http://www.mmofringe.com/forum/15-Star-Wars-Galaxies/14-OM-NOM-NOM)

06.12.08

Caveat - This is not an argument. I will attempt to speak honestly about these elements, to give you perspective. For those of you who want to misconstrue it, or perceive it as some “ZOMG YOU ROONED SWG”, please proceed to the back of the room where you can quietly eat a dick. OM NOM NOM. ( SOE's corporate culture: what they really think about their customers)

So, I just logged back in to discover that a bunch of you whackjobs have turned one of these threads into some misguided personal grievance with the SWG NGE.... (more of the same)

 

Not just make Galaxies better, but make it succesful. Not the 200k subs it had, but really succesful. The idea was that we had the most valuable IP in the entire world, and we fucked it up to the point of having 200k subs. (subs at time of NGE and a rather strong implication of WoW envy as the motivation for the NGE)

 

Hell, I implemented the original Jedi System in 2 weeks after we launched. Not because it was how we wanted it, but because we had 2 weeks to do it. (Showing SOE didn't plan the Jedi system for jack)

 

 

We told them. “If you do this, you will lose all 200k subscribers. It is that significant.”

It was explained that we would gain more due to the marketing push and relaunch.  ( Showing definitively and without question that SOE didn't give a crap about anyone playing SWG) 

 

We tested out a new combat system on a whim. I did a quick prototype and we discussed it internally.

The difference was the control scheme, not the rules. You clicked, You shot.

When we demonstrated it, the first comment was “Wooooah….” (Proving, rather definitively again that SOE came up with the design, code and plan for the NGE, and not LA)

 

We were working in parallel, maintaining old code on the off chance that we would pull the plug on the implementation. (Proving that SOE was able to pull the NGE after implementaion, and CHOSE not to)

 

Colored comments are mine.

This is obviously not made up, everything quoted (minus the colored bits) is from the guy himself and not conjecture.

This blog post shed a LOT of light on SWG-NGE and how it came to be and a lot about SOE and what they think of their customers. It surived in this unedited form for about 3 hours or so.

All I ever hear from the SOE boosters is "You weren't there... You don't know what was said... blah blah blah)". This guy WAS there and does know what was said.. and he spilled the beans.

I suggest all the SOE apologists go read it all sometime if they have not.

 

 

 

Yeah just shows that LA told them to make the game better "So we were given the directive to make Galaxies better." and only had a tight timeframe to work with.

If SWG transformed into SWTOR on Nov 2005 instead of the NGE, it still would have been a failure, even worse one.

SWTOR had about 5+ years in development and worked from the ground up, SOE were only given a few months, and then transformed the game, dumping code on top of code on top of code

Bioware (or any other developer) would have had the same problems. SWTOR is the NGE but coded from the ground up, and spent longer in development, but the NGE overall is still better than SWTOR.

It is clear from this that LA pushed the NGE

Its astounding that you guys still blame SOE.

LucasArts... LucasArts.... aaaaaaaaaa-LuuuuuuuuuuuuucasArts.

Thats, who, you, should, blame.

Mention other emus here = post deletion/warning

Mention original Pre-Cu emu = Nothing happens.

:|

Deleted

It's as legal as any other emu.

Originally posted by RefMinor
Can I just throw in this quote as it sums up all of the genres ills (and society's too). I want to keep this LucasArts quote alive.

 

"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."

Wow..i just realized how this quote destroys any creativity in gameplay and describes something i reallydont want to be involved with.

What i always remembered was the "too much reading" and "not being the moisture farmer part", but it has tonsof more evil anti humanity stuff connected to it.

"much broader player base" - ok lets forgt about it. 

"lots of reading" - reading is the most important ability in human education.

"wandering around learning about different abilities" - another key ability of humanity, curiosity and exloring things out of curiosity while gaining experience.

"being Han Solo".."then.. being..the moisture farmer"  - so being like a ape and live someone else life instead of  establish and recogninse your own achievements and playstyles and creativity.

"more instant gratification:kill, get tresure,repeat" - more of an ape ...now in a skinner box

"what they have seen in movies" .."rather what they created themselves"  - because what you create yourself is no value and instead be an  "iconic" ape with no personality that has nothing valuable to contribute and just live in a skinner box do crap stuff and getting pat on the had for it.

I am so glad i wasn't part of this fascistic like virtual world  Nancy wanted to throw us in and if there are parents looking at what type of game Nancy propagandise here for, wouldn't you rather want your kid to be part of the OPPOSITE ?

PS : RefMinor  Many thanks for saving  it ! we absolutely need to send it to Nancy's current employer, she worksalot with kids and educational stuff i heard and her Boss NEEDS to know such quotes of her.

Anger? No... laughter maybe. I was there through it all the entire 8+ years. I played 2 TOR betas, and gave the free invite a go as well just recently, and I can say without a doubt that as bad a deal as the player base got handed at the NGE, SWG was heads and shoulders a far better game with all its problems than TOR is now with all its time, and money, and 'from the ground up" development.

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

I suppose it depends what you're into...if you like your hand held as you cross the street to get your McDonalds then I'm sure it's a great game...

It's kind of true that TOR is like re-experiencing the disappointment of NGE again for some of us. But this time we got NGE'd when we hit level 50. I am actively subbed to SWTOR, but it does make NGE look like a swiss fucking watch at this point.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by RefMinor
Can I just throw in this quote as it sums up all of the genres ills (and society's too). I want to keep this LucasArts quote alive.

 

"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."

Wow..i just realized how this quote destroys any creativity in gameplay and describes something i reallydont want to be involved with.

What i always remembered was the "too much reading" and "not being the moisture farmer part", but it has tonsof more evil anti humanity stuff connected to it.

"much broader player base" - ok lets forgt about it. 

"lots of reading" - reading is the most important ability in human education.

"wandering around learning about different abilities" - another key ability of humanity, curiosity and exloring things out of curiosity while gaining experience.

"being Han Solo".."then.. being..the moisture farmer"  - so being like a ape and live someone else life instead of  establish and recogninse your own achievements and playstyles and creativity.

"more instant gratification:kill, get tresure,repeat" - more of an ape ...now in a skinner box

"what they have seen in movies" .."rather what they created themselves"  - because what you create yourself is no value and instead be an  "iconic" ape with no personality that has nothing valuable to contribute and just live in a skinner box do crap stuff and getting pat on the had for it.

 

I am so glad i wasn't part of this fascistic like virtual world  Nancy wanted to throw us in and if there are parents looking at what type of game Nancy propagandise here for, wouldn't you rather want your kid to be part of the OPPOSITE ?

 

PS : RefMinor  Many thanks for saving  it ! we absolutely need to send it to Nancy's current employer, she worksalot with kids and educational stuff i heard and her Boss NEEDS to know such quotes of her.

 

 That quote is true of SWTOR in all respects.

Even NGE SWG at the end of its days, had more challenge and appeal then SWTOR. In NGE i could still create my own playstyle and be creative. albeit i was limited heavily.

SWTOR there is no individual, its disconcerting and does not feel like a rpg at all

wtb a roll back server

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by RefMinor
Can I just throw in this quote as it sums up all of the genres ills (and society's too). I want to keep this LucasArts quote alive.

 

"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."

Wow..i just realized how this quote destroys any creativity in gameplay and describes something i reallydont want to be involved with.

What i always remembered was the "too much reading" and "not being the moisture farmer part", but it has tonsof more evil anti humanity stuff connected to it.

"much broader player base" - ok lets forgt about it. 

"lots of reading" - reading is the most important ability in human education.

"wandering around learning about different abilities" - another key ability of humanity, curiosity and exloring things out of curiosity while gaining experience.

"being Han Solo".."then.. being..the moisture farmer"  - so being like a ape and live someone else life instead of  establish and recogninse your own achievements and playstyles and creativity.

"more instant gratification:kill, get tresure,repeat" - more of an ape ...now in a skinner box

"what they have seen in movies" .."rather what they created themselves"  - because what you create yourself is no value and instead be an  "iconic" ape with no personality that has nothing valuable to contribute and just live in a skinner box do crap stuff and getting pat on the had for it.

 

I am so glad i wasn't part of this fascistic like virtual world  Nancy wanted to throw us in and if there are parents looking at what type of game Nancy propagandise here for, wouldn't you rather want your kid to be part of the OPPOSITE ?

 

PS : RefMinor  Many thanks for saving  it ! we absolutely need to send it to Nancy's current employer, she worksalot with kids and educational stuff i heard and her Boss NEEDS to know such quotes of her.

 

I am totally sympathetic to what you are saying, but DO YOU THINK HER BOSS CARES? He hired her because of this attitude, probably.

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

I suppose it depends what you're into...if you like your hand held as you cross the street to get your McDonalds then I'm sure it's a great game...

rofl..

Damn dude.. that was almost as bad, and funny as a jedi getting gank-pawned at the Restuss starport by a Spai...

Originally posted by Yanshee

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

I suppose it depends what you're into...if you like your hand held as you cross the street to get your McDonalds then I'm sure it's a great game...

rofl..

Damn dude.. that was almost as bad, and funny as a jedi getting gank-pawned at the Restuss starport by a Spai...

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

This. The NGE was pure garbage. I gave it a go a couple of times but it finally got to the point that it was embaraassing to log in. Seeing a game that you use to enjoy being reduced to a cash grab with few people playing is depressing.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

This. The NGE was pure garbage. I gave it a go a couple of times but it finally got to the point that it was embaraassing to log in. Seeing a game that you use to enjoy being reduced to a cash grab with few people playing is depressing.

Same thing can be said for SWTOR.

That is just a money grab plain and simple. It is not even a MMO, but a single player game with multiplayer options that you pay a monthly fee for.

I do not know what SWTOR has that makes you want to keep playing it, after hitting 50, there is simply nothing to do

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

This. The NGE was pure garbage. I gave it a go a couple of times but it finally got to the point that it was embaraassing to log in. Seeing a game that you use to enjoy being reduced to a cash grab with few people playing is depressing.

Same thing can be said for SWTOR.

Sure you could say that, but you'd look foolish.

That is just a money grab plain and simple. It is not even a MMO, but a single player game with multiplayer options that you pay a monthly fee for.

Funny as I group far more in this game than I ever have.

I do not know what SWTOR has that makes you want to keep playing it, after hitting 50, there is simply nothing to do

And I never saw what was so great about the NGE, but then again I've never expected everyone else to have the same tastes as me.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

This. The NGE was pure garbage. I gave it a go a couple of times but it finally got to the point that it was embaraassing to log in. Seeing a game that you use to enjoy being reduced to a cash grab with few people playing is depressing.

Same thing can be said for SWTOR.

Sure you could say that, but you'd look foolish.

That is just a money grab plain and simple. It is not even a MMO, but a single player game with multiplayer options that you pay a monthly fee for.

Funny as I group far more in this game than I ever have.

I do not know what SWTOR has that makes you want to keep playing it, after hitting 50, there is simply nothing to do

And I never saw what was so great about the NGE, but then again I've never expected everyone else to have the same tastes as me.

You mention grouping, I can say you had numerous different reasons to group in SWG compared to SWTOR. Even in the NGE.

SWTOR is a single player game with some coop features. Why not make ONE common fleet for all servers and treat servers as instances. You should not see any difference compared with today since you as a player leave non whatsoever mark on the server you live in.

 

 I hate the NGE and all it stands for, but in this case I have to agree with superniceguy.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Yanshee

 

TOR fanbois can delude themselves all they wish, but they got a far inferior game in every respect than SWG was in its very worse days.

HAHAHA That's pretty funny. SWTOR is FAR superior to any iteration of SWG after 11-15-05, hands down.

This. The NGE was pure garbage. I gave it a go a couple of times but it finally got to the point that it was embaraassing to log in. Seeing a game that you use to enjoy being reduced to a cash grab with few people playing is depressing.

Same thing can be said for SWTOR.

Sure you could say that, but you'd look foolish.

That is just a money grab plain and simple. It is not even a MMO, but a single player game with multiplayer options that you pay a monthly fee for.

Funny as I group far more in this game than I ever have.

I do not know what SWTOR has that makes you want to keep playing it, after hitting 50, there is simply nothing to do

And I never saw what was so great about the NGE, but then again I've never expected everyone else to have the same tastes as me.

 

Would not look foolish at all. Paying to carry on playing after 50 is more foolish, and it is not just my opinion. Bioware would not be giving out free months to people who had a level 50 character, if people who reached 50 were not quitting. The opinion is widespread.

SOE never gave out this much free time. SWTOR has free weekends, free 7 days, free 7 days for up 25 people from active players, free 30 days to people with level 50 chars, all within the last month.

SWTOR is failing harder than SWG (or even the NGE) ever did!