AW NAW SON!

Originally posted by Dameonk

  What did either side gain from the battle, other than keeping low level players from being able to complete their quests for a little while?

Not meaning to bash your story or anything, but battles like these in UO actually meant something and had consequences within the game world. 

In UO what did these battles actually mean? At the end of the day, week, month, year...etc? Exactly what did they mean? I always love reading stuff like this where people say something in a game actually meant something over things that occured in another game for some other player.  

All these games mentioned are the same, they are all games that are played for fun. Some people find/found others more fun then others.  I personally didn't care for UO, got in early EQ beta and enjoyed it immensily for the next few years along with some other MMORPGS between then and now. WoW was enjoyable for a short period (30-45 days after release) and then it was no longer fun for me personally.  

I can think of a lot of fun and memorable moments in every game I've played, but I can't honestly think that one of them had any real meaning.  I've played every game to have fun, whether it was going on a corpse raid in EQ, being in the raid that killed the very first dragon in EQ, losing the city my guild spent months builing in Shadowbane or taking some other guilds city in the same game...etc. It was all fun, I would log out enjoying my day playing a game, but that was all it's every been.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Let me re-iterate...

Themepark games are generally tailored to make players feel like the hero by performing heroic deeds.

The problem with that, is that the definition of being a hero means that one performs well above and beyond the expectations of themselves and their peers. Yet this is paradoxal because when everyone is performing "heroic deeds", then no one is actually a hero.

Themepark games may be great at presenting scenarios to players that make it seem like they're special little snowflakes performing impossible feats... but the reality is they're just jumping through the same hoops as everyone else in a system rigged for them to win. So even though some players might get an epic feeling from certain gameplay elements, in msot cases when taken in context in the grand scheme they're not doing anything special compared to most other gamers.

You can't quantify a feeling for anyone but yourself. What you find epic another might not, no matter the 'grand scheme' of things. Another interpretation of things (yours).

Even if everyone is given the same scenario, we still play within our bubble of experience, we don't experience everyone's journey simultaneously so cannot use it as comparison. Only the 'story' shared to us by the game at that precise moment can we gauge its appeal and epicness.

Originally posted by nomatics856

even at a low level, at level 10, just in the cross roads, questing in the barrens, NPC was like you gotta collect 12 bird beaks, I was like DAMNIT, and grinding and questing these birds, I heard the drums of war go off, alliance attacking cross roads, they was every where, I was like aw naw son, aw naw. Even at level 10 I knew I couldnt do much, but whats this? Not just level 60s, not just level 50s, but players of all levels from 10 to 60 attacking the cross roads, knowing the Xroads was a  loss cause and running for my life in the distance I saw THE HORDE and not just players but THE HORDE, a whole raid coming in defense of the cross roads, all levels, all races, all classes.

 

It was a brutal war,as I watched from the hills and the sidelines, AOE was every where, bodies every where, the alliance being pushed back from the X-roads to astrannar, thats when the most epic war occured, lasting for hours on end, Astrannar vs Splintertree Post, pushing the alliance back to astrannar, thinking we won, a raid  was coming behind us, as my hunter was picking off the level 10s and 12s to the sideline, we soon became fully surrounded by all sides, even though we lost at the end, even though we all died, even though we were all surrounded we did not go down with out a fight, we did not give up, we shown that day the power of the horde on that server was feirce.

Skater Gnome, is that you??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjjqQILRsKQ

Something the OP reminded me I still had, one of the few times in EQ I did have fun. We spent about 30-45 minutes before we started to get overran so we hit the docks. The best part was waiting for the next boat full of horde to show up, literally dropped them all in about 30 seconds.

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

Originally posted by Dameonk

I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread.  So Alliance held a meaningless raid on the crossroads and the Horde kicked them out of the zone?  Ok... and?  What did either side gain from the battle, other than keeping low level players from being able to complete their quests for a little while?

Not meaning to bash your story or anything, but battles like these in UO actually meant something and had consequences within the game world.  I appologize if I don't share the same opinion with you when it comes to WoW's "epic" moments.

 let me make a wild guess. They were... fun? to people who participated? heck they were even interesting enough for a lvl 10 newbie who ran away, that he made a topic about it. 

Fun.  why is it bad if youre just having fun, and not getting any leet medals of leetness, for your time spent having fun? wasnt that rewarding enough? 

since when is it a must for every single moment spent in a game to be closely tied to some sort of character advancement? Or even have 'consequences within the game world', as you put it. 

tldr: it WAS his epic moment, it was epic moment for many people who participated in such a raid. And it did have consequences too. Newbies, some scared and terrified would run away screaming, while others would join and try to push the attacking force back. Every newbie (and vet) was in fact affected by such an event, and many of them had fun doing it. It was their epic moment. 

Even if it doesnt fit your description of 'your own' epic moments, it doesnt mean it was not 'epic' to some other people. 

I  couldn't agree more. I don't need carrots and incentives to have fun in a game. I don't need the game to give meaning to every single thing I do.  But the sandbox fanbois need meaning for everything they do yet they criticise item treadmills. They can't simply have fun, it seems.

Originally posted by nomatics856

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by nomatics856

even at a low level, at level 10, just in the cross roads, questing in the barrens, NPC was like you gotta collect 12 bird beaks, I was like DAMNIT, and grinding and questing these birds, I heard the drums of war go off, alliance attacking cross roads, they was every where, I was like aw naw son, aw naw. Even at level 10 I knew I couldnt do much, but whats this? Not just level 60s, not just level 50s, but players of all levels from 10 to 60 attacking the cross roads, knowing the Xroads was a  loss cause and running for my life in the distance I saw THE HORDE and not just players but THE HORDE, a whole raid coming in defense of the cross roads, all levels, all races, all classes.

 

It was a brutal war,as I watched from the hills and the sidelines, AOE was every where, bodies every where, the alliance being pushed back from the X-roads to astrannar, thats when the most epic war occured, lasting for hours on end, Astrannar vs Splintertree Post, pushing the alliance back to astrannar, thinking we won, a raid  was coming behind us, as my hunter was picking off the level 10s and 12s to the sideline, we soon became fully surrounded by all sides, even though we lost at the end, even though we all died, even though we were all surrounded we did not go down with out a fight, we did not give up, we shown that day the power of the horde on that server was feirce.

Should have played UO, stuff like this was a constant minus the kill x birds for my Blue Socks of Doom thing.  Many younger people have WoW as there UO. It is what it is.

I did play UO and no.

before Trammel? Because he is right.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by sikakoira

I had this epic moment in swtor. In the opening cinematic. Pretty fierce stuff.

 

 

I agree, it goes on an epic downhill journey from that point on though.

Funny, I experienced exactly the same problem

There must be something wrong with us...............

Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by nomatics856

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Should have played UO, stuff like this was a constant minus the kill x birds for my Blue Socks of Doom thing.  Many younger people have WoW as there UO. It is what it is.

I did play UO and no.

before Trammel? Because he is right.

PvP in Felucca was a lot better after Trammel.

Factions!

More people + everyone fairly "even" due to "leveling" in Trammel + more purpose to PvP (capture/control) = Win, Win, Win

Originally posted by Angier2758

The problem with that, is that the definition of being a hero means that one performs well above and beyond the expectations of themselves and their peers. Yet this is paradoxal because when everyone is performing "heroic deeds", then no one is actually a hero.

Themepark games may be great at presenting scenarios to players that make it seem like they're special little snowflakes performing impossible feats... but the reality is they're just jumping through the same hoops as everyone else in a system rigged for them to win. So even though some players might get an epic feeling from certain gameplay elements, in msot cases when taken in context in the grand scheme they're not doing anything special compared to most other gamers.

Games, like all other enteratinment, are illusions. If they can sell the illusion that you are a hero . that is enough.

In fact, it is silly to claim anything "real" associated with a VIDEO GAME. You think you are a real hero if you play a harsher game?

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Angier2758

The problem with that, is that the definition of being a hero means that one performs well above and beyond the expectations of themselves and their peers. Yet this is paradoxal because when everyone is performing "heroic deeds", then no one is actually a hero.

Themepark games may be great at presenting scenarios to players that make it seem like they're special little snowflakes performing impossible feats... but the reality is they're just jumping through the same hoops as everyone else in a system rigged for them to win. So even though some players might get an epic feeling from certain gameplay elements, in msot cases when taken in context in the grand scheme they're not doing anything special compared to most other gamers.

Games, like all other enteratinment, are illusions. If they can sell the illusion that you are a hero . that is enough.

In fact, it is silly to claim anything "real" associated with a VIDEO GAME. You think you are a real hero if you play a harsher game?

A harsher game creates what many consider a better, or more plausible, illusion of heroicness.

I actually feel sorry for the players whos first MMO was WoW, seriously, all kidding aside I feel for them.

These people were cheated, robbed of thier innocence, I wish I could ease thier pain, if only there were some way!

No offence but crossroad raiding/defending while it being fun was never even remotely epic to me.

Sieges on Lineage2 or aoc .. now thats a different story heck.

Even battlegrounds on aoc had epic moments like these (mostly epic fail for the opposint team) (just look at the kills)

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Angier2758

The problem with that, is that the definition of being a hero means that one performs well above and beyond the expectations of themselves and their peers. Yet this is paradoxal because when everyone is performing "heroic deeds", then no one is actually a hero.

Themepark games may be great at presenting scenarios to players that make it seem like they're special little snowflakes performing impossible feats... but the reality is they're just jumping through the same hoops as everyone else in a system rigged for them to win. So even though some players might get an epic feeling from certain gameplay elements, in msot cases when taken in context in the grand scheme they're not doing anything special compared to most other gamers.

Games, like all other enteratinment, are illusions. If they can sell the illusion that you are a hero . that is enough.

In fact, it is silly to claim anything "real" associated with a VIDEO GAME. You think you are a real hero if you play a harsher game?

I can only speak for myself when I say that the idea the mainstream as feed us that the reason we play is so that we can have a heroic lifestyle that we lack in real life is down right insanity. again speaking for myself.

For me the game is purely exploring, mechanics, challenge, I dont care if I am a knight or a poor begger in the game itself and a raise at work isnt going to change my love of games.

sorry for the rant

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I actually feel sorry for the players whos first MMO was WoW, seriously, all kidding aside I feel for them.

These people were cheated, robbed of thier innocence, I wish I could ease thier pain, if only there were some way!

My first MMO was UO and that was great. My second MMO was EQ and that was terrible. My third MMO was WoW and that was great. 

Point is EQ is overrated and it is just meh. I feel sorry for people who's first MMO was EQ and they praise it till this very day. It was a mediocre grindy game and WoW did it much better.

Originally posted by fivoroth

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I actually feel sorry for the players whos first MMO was WoW, seriously, all kidding aside I feel for them.

These people were cheated, robbed of thier innocence, I wish I could ease thier pain, if only there were some way!

My first MMO was UO and that was great. My second MMO was EQ and that was terrible. My third MMO was WoW and that was great. 

Point is EQ is overrated and it is just meh. I feel sorry for people who's first MMO was EQ and they praise it till this very day. It was a mediocre grindy game and WoW did it much better.

I never feel sorry for people who have some perspective with which to form an opinion, which is why I also feel sorry for people who's first MMO was WoW.

Whether you liked EQ or not, if you gave it a fair try, thats all well and good.

EQ was not my first, but my 3rd MMO. I never played UO so I cant comment on it. I loved EQ. A lot of people say Luclin was when it began to deteriorate, but I didn't mind it so much. I felt it really started to go downhill with LDoN, and that was when I quit.

WoW was my 6th MMO. I thought it was just ok during Vanilla. Not great, but not bad. In my opinion WoW, as well as WoW's community, got progressively worse with each expansion. My first character was a Night Elf Druid (this was back before druids were cool...or even liked).

I have since played a multitude of other MMOs and none, not even numbers 1 & 2, have really come close to 3 & 4; EQ and FFXI; for me. Unlike a lot of today's MMO gamers, though, I've got some perspective from which to base my opinion. I'm not saying everyone who likes WoW lacks perspective, but many do, and for those people, I truly feel sympathy for not having experienced the games that came before.

Sure, I haven't played UO, and I'm sorry myself that I never knew about it back when it was popular. I could try to play it now, but I'm sure its nothing in comparison to what it was way back when. Same goes for EQ today. Same goes even for WoW today.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

There's a reason why WOW is the standard for MMOs and UO and EQ are just footnotes.

Because most gamers are easily fooled by heavily pre-scripted game mechanics that are designed for players to ultimately win in the end.

Completing a raid that countless tens if not hundreds of thousands of player have finished is not epic, despite how many times NPCs parrot it, and no matter how much purple text is thrown at you in loot windows.

Epic is a feeling, a subjective emotion tied to the enjoyment of an experience and the trill of it etc.

Who are you to define what others believe is epic or not?

 

Thempark Fanboi Alert...

Originally posted by Paithan

No offence but crossroad raiding/defending while it being fun was never even remotely epic to me.

Sieges on Lineage2 or aoc .. now thats a different story heck.

 

Even battlegrounds on aoc had epic moments like these (mostly epic fail for the opposint team) (just look at the kills)

Yes because AoC has such epic battleground pvp were I can buy all my pvp gear on the marketplace. Yeah that sure is epic *sarcasm

OP reminds me of younger SW fans who rave about how much better episodes 1-3 are when compared to the original trilogy. They'll insist the original trilogy just isn't as good as the newer movies because of how much better the special FX are, how much flashier the battles are, how much faster the lightsaber fights are, etc. All you can do is sigh and shake your head.

Sometimes beauty (or "epicness" in this case) really is in the eyes of the beholder. It is almost impossible to communicate how special the original trilogy was, and how *EPIC* its effects, stories, and battles were for its time. It takes a special person to be able to watch an older movie, or play an older game, for the first time and to be able to put that movie/game into the context of when it first released and have a sense of what made it so amazing and groundbreaking for its time. Sure, even back then there were people who didn't care for SW and who liked other movies instead (and there are even some younger fans now who are able to realize how much better episodes 4-6 are compared to 1-3). It doesn't lessen the sadness that I feel when I realize I can't communicate the "epicness" of the old in a way a person who didn't experience it would comprehend though.

In other words, some people understand that "each age is a dream that is dying, / Or one that is coming to birth." Some do not. And never the twain shall meet, I'm afraid.