Originally posted by Honner

My idea of P2W:

There is something imoportant on the game that can ONLY be earn with real money (items)

 

If you pay for something that can be earn without paying is not P2W...

 

People will never agree on a definition of P2W, I call anything beyond cosmetic items in a cash shop P2W since you pay to gain an advantage but I don't really care what anyone calls it. Being able to buy items in the cash shop that cannot be earned without spending money is a more severe form of P2W ofc.

soo true gw  its going still be gw  micro shop alwais  gonna be same as gw 1  whit no p2w   they never going to doit  plus im not gonna let a company steal mi money   for me to have fun  cause f2p games have same routie and maint as p2p  the only diference is Us letting ourself being  get ripoff by then  but ty god gw2 gonna change that.

Originally posted by Foncl

Originally posted by Honner

My idea of P2W:

There is something imoportant on the game that can ONLY be earn with real money (items)

 

If you pay for something that can be earn without paying is not P2W...

 

People will never agree on a definition of P2W, I call anything beyond cosmetic items in a cash shop P2W since you pay to gain an advantage but I don't really care what anyone calls it. Being able to buy items in the cash shop that cannot be earned without spending money is a more severe form of P2W ofc.

 So by your definition, WoW is pay to win?  Wow, crappy definition.

News flash: nearly every triple A mmo has a cash shop in it.  Wake up people. 

Originally posted by Thupli

Originally posted by Foncl

Originally posted by Honner

My idea of P2W:

There is something imoportant on the game that can ONLY be earn with real money (items)

 

If you pay for something that can be earn without paying is not P2W...

 

People will never agree on a definition of P2W, I call anything beyond cosmetic items in a cash shop P2W since you pay to gain an advantage but I don't really care what anyone calls it. Being able to buy items in the cash shop that cannot be earned without spending money is a more severe form of P2W ofc.

 So by your definition, WoW is pay to win?  Wow, crappy definition.

Yeah, WoW would be considered Pay to Win under that definition.

Originally posted by Thupli

Originally posted by Foncl

Originally posted by Honner

My idea of P2W:

There is something imoportant on the game that can ONLY be earn with real money (items)

 

If you pay for something that can be earn without paying is not P2W...

 

People will never agree on a definition of P2W, I call anything beyond cosmetic items in a cash shop P2W since you pay to gain an advantage but I don't really care what anyone calls it. Being able to buy items in the cash shop that cannot be earned without spending money is a more severe form of P2W ofc.

 So by your definition, WoW is pay to win?  Wow, crappy definition.

 

News flash: nearly every triple A mmo has a cash shop in it.  Wake up people. 

You do realize P2W has a different meaning to everyone who reads it, right? It's a phrase used to describe something which isn't clearly defined. Would you be happier if I called it fghjkl? what does that mean to you?

Originally posted by Thupli.

 

News flash: nearly every triple A mmo has a cash shop in it.  Wake up people. 

That is not true at all.

I  am always for sub. I don't know why i get all the time that feeling when game is f2p it is kind a cheap trick. Well in fact  gw2 is not f2p because you must buy this game :) It is not like champions online for example where you have free download. But nothing in this world is for free

Theres only one definition of P2W. Its like buying a card in a poker game so you can beat the other guy.  The irony is when everyone begins buying that card then you are back to square one, parity and have to figure out another way to metagame your way ahead (boxing, PL'ing, botting, hacking)... ad nuseum.

Not even the developers win, since eventually the only people playing their game are bots and cheats.

Originally posted by palulalula

I  am always for sub. I don't know why i get all the time that feeling when game is f2p it is kind a cheap trick. Well in fact  gw2 is not f2p because you must buy this game :) It is not like champions online for example where you have free download. But nothing in this world is for free

Except 98~% of the content (they even give the comic book series away for free), many free costume options, free character slots, free archetypes, and free players are every bit as capable as paying players due to all the stats and behind-the-scenes numbers being the same.

Essentially, it's possible to play from 1-40 in Champions, completing 98~% of the content (barring a few adventure packs). And you can do this without paying a single penny. In fact, a number of the long time players have said that Cryptic's approach is entirely far too generous, becuase it makes some people wonder what they're paying their subscriptions for.

I'm sorry, what were you saying again?

To me, this sounds like an inflated sense of self-entitlement. You really should check out that link in my sig.

I hate cash shops but they are a necessity in F2P games.

Cash shops in a B2P game really turns me off though.  I already planned on playing D3 until I got bored and buying GW2 later.  Iy's just easier now because I don't want to support the GW2 store model.  They want me to pay $60 for a game where others can level faster if they pay more?  Bad plan.

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Was looking forward to GW2.  I will not pay for a game which has any sort of shop in it, or even a sneaky cash to currency system like Plex in EvE.  

 

So thats 2 x box sales ($99 dollars per box in Aust) + my monthly subs.  I think they should at least have a no cash shop server or two cus I think there are quite a few people like me out there.

It was stated from the very beggining there was gona be a cash shop. You need to research games before you start following them. I hope you dont invest in anything ever in your life, it will probably make you end on the streets.

Originally posted by austriacus

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Was looking forward to GW2.  I will not pay for a game which has any sort of shop in it, or even a sneaky cash to currency system like Plex in EvE.  

 

So thats 2 x box sales ($99 dollars per box in Aust) + my monthly subs.  I think they should at least have a no cash shop server or two cus I think there are quite a few people like me out there.

 

It was stated from the very beggining there was gona be a cash shop. You need to research games before you start following them. I hope you dont invest in anything ever in your life, it will probably make you end on the streets.

Sorry I don't need to do anything other then what I have done to avoid buying pay to win garbage.  I'm not going to "research a game" or anything like that, thats what game mags and sites like this get paid to do.   if theres something fishy about a game that pops up, like a cash shop, then I won't waste my money on it.  

i prefer the Month Subs over Cash shops.

with cash shops, you actually end up paying more.  and usually this games become pay to win.       not to mention that you also need to buy every single expansions.

month Subs  you already pay for everything, expansions included.

Let me clear up the misconseption bout the cash shop in GW2: The cash shop will not be required in any way shape or form for you to take full advantage of the game!!!  If this changes Anet will lose their entire customer base which they didn't do for the first game so why would they do it now.

The argument "once they see their profits could be higher if they add p2w items they might change their mind" is asinine and grasping at straws to find possible future fault.  They didn't lower their standards before with the same market standards they used in the past.

Anet does not have the history to go along with the tin hat wearing paranoia vs their proven cash shop track record.

We've been beaten over the head with useless monthly sub games that have not changed for years yet still provide the same boring play style with no changes for a incredibly long time.  Have companies done the cash shop wrong?  YES but the same business model that Anet used in the past wont change for what they are promising their customers.

I'm sick of paying a monthly sub for a game that does not care about the gaming experience they are providing.

I find that the box price + OPTIONAL cash shop vanity items lets me choose what I want to spend my money on in the game I play. (Frankly the boost items don't give any advantage in this game excluding saving you personal specifically person time)  claiming anything else is ignorant.

It has been proven that what they are offering in the cash shop is not P2W and being paranoid over what they might change in the future to allow yourself to fall back on a broken monthly sub system is just un realistic.

Monthly subs are useless and un needed so take it or leave it Give me something else to spend my monthly sub on and thank the gaming gods its vanity items to make my character look like the master of kickassery he is.

Anet has a history of doing business so compare it to its own track record and stop comparing it to other incompatent companies.

Team Fortress 2 sells hats in their cash shop.

Do the hats look awesome?  Yes.

Are some of the hats only available via cash shop?  Yes.

Can you obtain those hats via trading without paying real cash?  Yes.

Do those hats give any in game advantage?  NO.

All I have to say on the matter is, Turbine started out selling fluff in the LOTRO store, a year later a few stats items turned up, 18 months later and equipment started to turn up... everyone trusted them not to do it, they even promised they wouldn't do it, but they did do it.

Personally though, I couldn't give a damn what GW2 sell in their store, provided it isn't mandatory to play all the content in the game.

Originally posted by bobfish

All I have to say on the matter is, Turbine started out selling fluff in the LOTRO store, a year later a few stats items turned up, 18 months later and equipment started to turn up... everyone trusted them not to do it, they even promised they wouldn't do it, but they did do it.

 

Personally though, I couldn't give a damn what GW2 sell in their store, provided it isn't mandatory to play all the content in the game.

It'd kill PVP if they offered any type of item that's more powerful than the standard level 80 gear, cash shop or not.   GW2 is trying to make the 5v5 PvP into an e-sport.   There is no e-sport game that sells power via a cash shop.   Cosmetics?  Yes.  Power?  No.

There is absolutely nothing that will appear in the cash shop that will be required to play the game fully, advance quickly or be competative with other players. The very limited boosts may have some appeal for people with disposable income, but with very limited play time. The boosts are minor and become completely uneconomical for anyone beyond a few hours worth a week.

These things would be minor in any game, but they are even more insignificant due to the GW2 game design. The leveling curve goes flat from level 20 to 80, with every level expected to take about 1 1/2 hours. The entire game is "end game", due to automatic scaling of character downwards for lower level content, (while earnig loot and XP appropriate for their true level). Skill points to unlock utility, healing and elite skills aren't just tied to leveling, you can also earn skill points from skill point challenges in the world, so even if someone gets some minor boost to progression rate, it's still not a definitive advantage over someone who spends nothing in the cash shop, but takes the time to actually explore and lay the game.

The power curve from leveling and from gear is more shallow than in other games. There are no end game raids or anything else that you need to get to the level cap for in order to get some uber power boost. Gear can be obtained in a number of ways that are not effected by cash shop boosts, etc...

On top of it all, if you do play a lot and have accumulated some excess gold in your journeys, you will have the opportunity to trade gold for Gems, (the Cash Shop Currency), which may allow you to buy account services like character slots with out ever having to reach for your credit card.

Just to clarify, since this comes up in these discussions, buying gems with $$$ does not inject new gold into the economy. There is no in game vendor where you can trade gems for gold. To sell them for gold, you need to do so on the marketplace, for gold that already exists with in the economy, so no added inflation.

You can still play the game fully, for just the box price. No mind numbing grind that can only be made tolerable via cash shop boosts, no power enhancing items, no items needed to achieve maximum character progression or the best possible gear. A lot of to do about nothing. This stuff is all truly optional and revenue will come from people with deep pockets, those who want to reward the game with some additional support and the occassional account service or impulse cosmetic item purchase for those who otherwise don't spend a dime in the cash shop.

Fair, well balanced and much better than a subscription fee that just grants you another month's access to a game you already purchased.

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Originally posted by austriacus

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Was looking forward to GW2.  I will not pay for a game which has any sort of shop in it, or even a sneaky cash to currency system like Plex in EvE.  

 

So thats 2 x box sales ($99 dollars per box in Aust) + my monthly subs.  I think they should at least have a no cash shop server or two cus I think there are quite a few people like me out there.

 

It was stated from the very beggining there was gona be a cash shop. You need to research games before you start following them. I hope you dont invest in anything ever in your life, it will probably make you end on the streets.

Sorry I don't need to do anything other then what I have done to avoid buying pay to win garbage.  I'm not going to "research a game" or anything like that, thats what game mags and sites like this get paid to do.   if theres something fishy about a game that pops up, like a cash shop, then I won't waste my money on it.  

Well if you had done any research you would know there is no 'pay to win garbage' in GW2. It is a core part of their philosophy. If that should ever change I will move on also. Oh btw there are no monthly subs either. Good luck finding a a game without doing any research, I sugest walking into a store with your eyes shut and picking up a box from the first shelf you bump into. Seriously, how can you make any sort of informed choice about anything knowing f*ck all about it?

Right. If it wasn't GW2, I'm sure none of you would defend the cash shop so fevershly. Plenty of games share the same monetary model, the only difference is that they don't demand a cash front price.

What's even more funny is that some people believed that GW2 could be funded with the upfront money only.

I wonder how many people consider this game B2P now. Because, if anything else, it is absolutely clear now that it isn't.