Originally posted by Corehaven

Yea but we always knew the game was going to have a cash shop.  Always.  I still dont understand the ruckus over this suddenly. 

 

And its better to me than having to buy the game, pay a sub fee, AND have a cash shop.  So whatever.

I think it's all about wording, perceptions, let down and squashed hopes. For months now many have been putting forth the idea that this shop was going to be purely cosmetic, Purely cosmetic ...

It doesn't look as though it will be, and people are upset about that. You also have to consider A-nets wording early on, about sub-fees, their need, and companies ripping people off, as that's the idea they put forth. Yet here we are with what looks like the typical non-p2w cash-shop. Something seems off about that to me. And I'm sure it looks that way to others.

Yes I agree with the last part 100%.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Corehaven

Yea but we always knew the game was going to have a cash shop.  Always.  I still dont understand the ruckus over this suddenly. 

 

And its better to me than having to buy the game, pay a sub fee, AND have a cash shop.  So whatever.

I think it's all about wording, perceptions, let down and squashed hopes. For months now many have been putting forth the idea that this shop was going to be purely cosmetic, Purely cosmetic ...

It doesn't look as though it will be, and people are upset about that. You also have to consider A-nets wording early on, about sub-fees, their need, and companies ripping people off, as that's the idea they put forth. Yet here we are with what looks like the typical non-p2w cash-shop. Something seems off about that to me. And I'm sure it looks that way to others.

Yes I agree with the last part 100%.

What looks off about a "non-p2w", as you put it. Doesnt that mean the CS doesnt offer an advantage? How is that bad?

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I honestly dont understand why the CS would "cheapen the experience", whatever that means.

 I'm just glad everyone can at least see that the CS offers no advantage over other players. I doubt I will even notice most of the cosmetic fluff being sold, but I support those people who want them.

By cheapen the experience I mean, ruining my immersion. Not sure what others mean.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Corehaven

Yea but we always knew the game was going to have a cash shop.  Always.  I still dont understand the ruckus over this suddenly. 

 

And its better to me than having to buy the game, pay a sub fee, AND have a cash shop.  So whatever.

I think it's all about wording, perceptions, let down and squashed hopes. For months now many have been putting forth the idea that this shop was going to be purely cosmetic, Purely cosmetic ...

It doesn't look as though it will be, and people are upset about that. You also have to consider A-nets wording early on, about sub-fees, their need, and companies ripping people off, as that's the idea they put forth. Yet here we are with what looks like the typical non-p2w cash-shop. Something seems off about that to me. And I'm sure it looks that way to others.

Yes I agree with the last part 100%.

Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I honestly dont understand why the CS would "cheapen the experience", whatever that means.

 I'm just glad everyone can at least see that the CS offers no advantage over other players. I doubt I will even notice most of the cosmetic fluff being sold, but I support those people who want them.

I think Creslin outlined why it cheapens the experience for some people pretty well (not saying it would for everyone).  I like to see my in-game effort rewarded and lets say I work hard and spend a lot of time to get a rare skin only find out that somebody payed $5 for it and got it instantly.  That makes my effort seem worthless to me and the effort I have to put into the game is what makes the reward actually rewarding.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I think it's all about wording, perceptions, let down and squashed hopes. For months now many have been putting forth the idea that this shop was going to be purely cosmetic, Purely cosmetic ...

It doesn't look as though it will be, and people are upset about that. You also have to consider A-nets wording early on, about sub-fees, their need, and companies ripping people off, as that's the idea they put forth. Yet here we are with what looks like the typical non-p2w cash-shop. Something seems off about that to me. And I'm sure it looks that way to others.

Yes I agree with the last part 100%.

What looks off about a "non-p2w", as you put it. Doesnt that mean the CS doesnt offer an advantage? How is that bad?

I don't view the CS as P2W, but not all cash-shops are P2W. Now what I mean by off is, based on their wording they don't need a sub fee, that says to me " we can live off box sales, expansions and cosmetic sales".  What it doesn't say to me is, we're going to be using the typcial f2p cash-shop to make up for monthly fees just like everyone else..

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I honestly dont understand why the CS would "cheapen the experience", whatever that means.

 I'm just glad everyone can at least see that the CS offers no advantage over other players. I doubt I will even notice most of the cosmetic fluff being sold, but I support those people who want them.

I think Creslin outlined why it cheapens the experience for some people pretty well (not saying it would for everyone).  I like to see my in-game effort rewarded and lets say I work hard and spend a lot of time to get a rare skin only find out that somebody payed $5 for it and got it instantly.  That makes my effort seem worthless to me and the effort I have to put into the game is what makes the reward actually rewarding.

Oh, ok well as long as its for vanity, then I dont care.

You will probably get a crack at something rare and pretty. Its not unreasonable.

Originally posted by RizelStar

 

Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.

 

 

Isn't this a recent statement? Like as in the last 2 weeks? I hope you know I was talking about the manifesto, and other early statements made about typical MMO revenues. As in I wasn't talking about what they sell, instead how they sell, and the view they put forward about other companies.

Originally posted by RizelStar

Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Sounds like to me they are at least saying that if you dump a lot of time into the game, you'll be no less at a disadvantage than people who didnt, but spent money instead. 

Joe works 6 days a week, full time, and has a wife and kids.  When Joe finally gets to sit down and play for a bit, Im okay with Joe getting a boost.  If he wants to spend that hard earned cash he's worked all week for to temporarily enhance his gaming experience by leveling faster or otherwise I'm cool with Joe. 

Meanwhile Joe doesnt have to get ticked off at me because I apparently "have no life" and have put a lot of time into the game.  Joe can spend money to play his game if he wants.  I'll just play the hell out of it.  And we can both be happy.  Im good with it. 

Joe has his way of doing things, and I have mine.  Meanwhile we can go kill a dragon together or something before he has to tuck in his 5 kids. 

Folks, the only way for this to make any sense to those at ANet/NCSoft is to show them (possibly with a well designed poll?!?) how many people will now change their buying decision and/or outright refuse to buy this game now that the 'details' of the cash shop are 'out'.  On topic...

I have said I will NEVER play a game with a subscription.  I will NEVER pay full price for a game AND have to pay a subscription.  I also will never pay a subscription to a game with an abusive CS. 

I will buy GW2...but the Cash shop has probably cost ANet the profit difference between a CE and a Digital DL.  If after playing it I find out there is ANY monthly amount of $$ that has to be spent to be considered 'competitive' for grouping, I will remove the game and move on.  I consider that a subscription. 

Originally posted by Corehaven

 

Sounds like to me they are at least saying that if you dump a lot of time into the game, you'll be no less at a disadvantage than people who didnt, but spent money instead. 

 

Joe works 6 days a week, full time, and has a wife and kids.  When Joe finally gets to sit down and play for a bit, Im okay with Joe getting a boost.  If he wants to spend that hard earned cash he's worked all week for to temporarily enhance his gaming experience by leveling faster or otherwise I'm cool with Joe. 

 

Meanwhile Joe doesnt have to get ticked off at me because I apparently "have no life" and have put a lot of time into the game.  Joe can spend money to play his game if he wants.  I'll just play the hell out of it.  And we can both be happy.  Im good with it. 

 

Joe has his way of doing things, and I have mine.  Meanwhile we can go kill a dragon together or something before he has to tuck in his 5 kids. 

ANd what they sell isn't the issue for me, at least not what I was talking about above. It's the idea they put forth about MMO's and revenue. They made it seem as though they were the good guys in a sea of sharks. I don't see how this is hard to understand.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Corehaven

 

Sounds like to me they are at least saying that if you dump a lot of time into the game, you'll be no less at a disadvantage than people who didnt, but spent money instead. 

 

Joe works 6 days a week, full time, and has a wife and kids.  When Joe finally gets to sit down and play for a bit, Im okay with Joe getting a boost.  If he wants to spend that hard earned cash he's worked all week for to temporarily enhance his gaming experience by leveling faster or otherwise I'm cool with Joe. 

 

Meanwhile Joe doesnt have to get ticked off at me because I apparently "have no life" and have put a lot of time into the game.  Joe can spend money to play his game if he wants.  I'll just play the hell out of it.  And we can both be happy.  Im good with it. 

 

Joe has his way of doing things, and I have mine.  Meanwhile we can go kill a dragon together or something before he has to tuck in his 5 kids. 

ANd what they sell isn't the issue for me, at least not what I was talking about above. It's the idea they put forth about MMO's and revenue. They made it seem as though they were the good guys in a sea of sharks. I don't see how this is hard to understand.

Hey I think sub fees are a bunch of bull ***** .   I always knew they were going to have a cash shop.  I didnt think Id be able to every buy anything from that cash shop unless I paid cash.  I was cool with that as it was.  But now I find out I can in fact get cash shop items without ever spending a dime.  I can get them just by playing. 

So now Im even more pleased.  As far as Im concerned they did me one better than I even thought they were going too.   So yea, I still consider them good guys in a sea of sharks.  Now I have no doubt they want to profit off this.   I have every intention of buying the game and giving it a try.  Anet can probably expect no cash from me regarding their shop, but I might pay for all the expansions and stuff if I like the game. 

But being that I can get everything in the cash shop possibly just by playing?  Or at least what I want to get?  Im more excited now than I was before.  I thought it was just going to be a standard old cash shop which is something I sometimes refer to as a "cash wall" because its a wall that seperates those items from the game, that only by paying cash can I get access too.  But there's no "cash wall" here.  So Im good. 

Originally posted by Corehaven

Hey I think sub fees are a bunch of bull ***** .   I always knew they were going to have a cash shop.  I didnt think Id be able to every buy anything from that cash shop unless I paid cash.  I was cool with that as it was.  But now I find out I can in fact get cash shop items without ever spending a dime.  I can get them just by playing. 

 

So now Im even more pleased.  As far as Im concerned they did me one better than I even thought they were going too.   So yea, I still consider them good guys in a sea of sharks.  Now I have no doubt they want to profit off this.   I have every intention of buying the game and giving it a try.  Anet can probably expect no cash from me regarding their shop, but I might pay for all the expansions and stuff if I like the game. 

 

But being that I can get everything in the cash shop possibly just by playing?  Or at least what I want to get?  Im more excited now than I was before.  I thought it was just going to be a standard old cash shop which is something I sometimes refer to as a "cash wall" because its a wall that seperates those items from the game, that only by paying cash can I get access too.  But there's no "cash wall" here.  So Im good. 

I still plan on playing as well, nothing I've seen has been a deal breaker yet. I was just trying to answer your question about why we're seeing the outrage we are.

Originally posted by Distopia

They made it seem as though they were the good guys in a sea of sharks. I don't see how this is hard to understand.

I don't see how hard it is to understand that some people still view them that way, for their own reasons.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Distopia

They made it seem as though they were the good guys in a sea of sharks. I don't see how this is hard to understand.

I don't see how hard it is to understand that some people still view them that way, for their own reasons.

That's fine, just don't throw a completely unrelated statement in my face along with a video of facepalms because I don't.

Was looking forward to GW2.  I will not pay for a game which has any sort of shop in it, or even a sneaky cash to currency system like Plex in EvE.  

So thats 2 x box sales ($99 dollars per box in Aust) + my monthly subs.  I think they should at least have a no cash shop server or two cus I think there are quite a few people like me out there.

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Corehaven

 

Sounds like to me they are at least saying that if you dump a lot of time into the game, you'll be no less at a disadvantage than people who didnt, but spent money instead. 

 

Joe works 6 days a week, full time, and has a wife and kids.  When Joe finally gets to sit down and play for a bit, Im okay with Joe getting a boost.  If he wants to spend that hard earned cash he's worked all week for to temporarily enhance his gaming experience by leveling faster or otherwise I'm cool with Joe. 

 

Meanwhile Joe doesnt have to get ticked off at me because I apparently "have no life" and have put a lot of time into the game.  Joe can spend money to play his game if he wants.  I'll just play the hell out of it.  And we can both be happy.  Im good with it. 

 

Joe has his way of doing things, and I have mine.  Meanwhile we can go kill a dragon together or something before he has to tuck in his 5 kids. 

ANd what they sell isn't the issue for me, at least not what I was talking about above. It's the idea they put forth about MMO's and revenue. They made it seem as though they were the good guys in a sea of sharks. I don't see how this is hard to understand.

Hey I think sub fees are a bunch of bull ***** .   I always knew they were going to have a cash shop.  I didnt think Id be able to every buy anything from that cash shop unless I paid cash.  I was cool with that as it was.  But now I find out I can in fact get cash shop items without ever spending a dime.  I can get them just by playing. 

 

So now Im even more pleased.  As far as Im concerned they did me one better than I even thought they were going too.   So yea, I still consider them good guys in a sea of sharks.  Now I have no doubt they want to profit off this.   I have every intention of buying the game and giving it a try.  Anet can probably expect no cash from me regarding their shop, but I might pay for all the expansions and stuff if I like the game. 

 

But being that I can get everything in the cash shop possibly just by playing?  Or at least what I want to get?  Im more excited now than I was before.  I thought it was just going to be a standard old cash shop which is something I sometimes refer to as a "cash wall" because its a wall that seperates those items from the game, that only by paying cash can I get access too.  But there's no "cash wall" here.  So Im good. 

One problem with your reasoning is that the gold amount needed to get gems will be absurdely high. This will force you to grind if you want to get the item mall items you wish to have. But, if you are going to grind anyhow, you might as well grind that off through a real job: it would give you the items much faster than if you were to grind for them inside the game.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Distopia

They made it seem as though they were the good guys in a sea of sharks. I don't see how this is hard to understand.

I don't see how hard it is to understand that some people still view them that way, for their own reasons.

You want to see me get outraged?   Ive been there before.  Here was scenario. 

I paid a monthly of $15.  Then there's a cash shop added to the game thats about the size of Alaska, maybe a little bigger.  No I cant earn those items in game.   Then I get outraged.  Star Trek Online anyone? 

I always said I would probably be cool with their megalothic cash shop if there was no sub fee, or I might pay the sub fee without the cash shop. 

So anyways in this case I dont have to pay a sub fee.   Now that right there?  Im in the clear.  Have your cash shop.  Im automatically good now.  Oh wait, you're also saying I can get the items in the cash shop by buying gems at auction with my gold?  Oh well then.....thats just swell and dandy.  So do you want my $65 now or later? 

My idea of P2W:

There is something imoportant on the game that can ONLY be earn with real money (items)

If you pay for something that can be earn without paying is not P2W...

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I honestly dont understand why the CS would "cheapen the experience", whatever that means.

 I'm just glad everyone can at least see that the CS offers no advantage over other players. I doubt I will even notice most of the cosmetic fluff being sold, but I support those people who want them.

I think Creslin outlined why it cheapens the experience for some people pretty well (not saying it would for everyone).  I like to see my in-game effort rewarded and lets say I work hard and spend a lot of time to get a rare skin only find out that somebody payed $5 for it and got it instantly.  That makes my effort seem worthless to me and the effort I have to put into the game is what makes the reward actually rewarding.

For me it's the other way around. I have the tendency to take more pride in my achievement knowing full well how I earned it. If I see another person who simply bought the same item I worked on I feel proud.