Originally posted by Everket

Besides its an excellent "trial" to see if you enjoy the game, or to play a game casual on and off for FREE. If you enjoy it and play it almost daily, you won't mind paying the sub.

 

Yes that's for sure, that's what it is, a trial.

But why call it F2P then, that's highly deceiving.

I played EQ, EQ2 and VG for 7 years with subscription.

I recently played EQ2 Extended and basically it felt like playing a limited Trial, compared to the subscription option.

The gap is way too wide between the subscription version and the F2P.

They should call it just "Unlimited Trial", which is a fair description of what it is.

Originally posted by Ardwulf

 

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Originally posted by ste2000
SoE don't do free to play, paying for chunks of content it's not what I call free, since it is not optional.
In short you cannot enjoy the game unless you subscribe.
SoE needs to learn how to do F2P from Asian publishers, until then do not bother (VG is a good game IMO)

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If the previous SOE f2p games are any indication, that's rubbish. If you're some flavor of "hardcore" (whatever that means) then yeah, you're better off paying. But IMO if you're that serious about it you you ought to pay.

 

Also, in comparison to other f2p models, like, say, Turbine's, SOE gives out way, way more "content" (meaning, you know, content.)

Like what?

You need to subscribe to access the latest expansion content.

You can't communicate with anyone except your guild mates (so much for the Massive part of the game)

You can't have more than 2 Gold in your bank, which is nothing at high lvl, since you can't buy any good equipment.

You can't use high level spells (Master Spells) and you ca't wear Epic equipment, basically making your character useless in high level dungeons and Raids.

Finally you can't use the Market (AH), which together with the 2 Gold limit make it impossible for your character to be anywhere near competitive enough to enjoy high level group content.

All of this limitations have nothing to do with being an hardcore player or a casual one, those are essential requirement for every play style.

In short, if you don't care to play an MMORPG in solo mode then EQ2 F2P it's enjoyable, in which case I agree.

But I will also say there are far better single or multiplayer games out there which are better equipped to be played in solo mode.

This is just a big unlimited trial, you can't possibly say you are playing the real game with so mny limitations.

Originally posted by ste2000

Like what?

You need to subscribe to access the latest expansion content.

You can't communicate with anyone except your guild mates (so much for the Massive part of the game)

You can't have more than 2 Gold in your bank, which is nothing at high lvl, since you can't buy any good equipment.

You can't use high level spells (Master Spells) and you ca't wear Epic equipment, basically making your character useless in high level dungeons and Raids.

Finally you can't use the Market (AH), which together with the 2 Gold limit make it impossible for your character to be anywhere near competitive enough to enjoy high level group content.

 

All of this limitations have nothing to do with being an hardcore player or a casual one, those are essential requirement for every play style.

In short, if you don't care to play an MMORPG in solo mode then EQ2 F2P it's enjoyable, in which case I agree.

But I will also say there are far better single or multiplayer games out there which are better equipped to be played in solo mode.

This is just a big unlimited trial, you can't possibly say you are playing the real game with so mny limitations.

Finally, someone else who gets it, rather than the constant SoE apologisers on this site. The SoE F2P models suck, its not F2P... its an 'EXTREMELY LIMITED TRIAL'.

I don't feel that any game should claim to be 'free to play' unless you can actually play the game properly as a non-subscriber, which is not the case for any SoE games aside from DCUO.

I would love to see a group of F2P players doing any of the end game instances in EQ2. or hell, any instances after RoK... with treasured gear and adept spells, no shamen, no bards and no enchanters. It would be hilarious.

Their logo is 'Free to play. Your way' which in itself is a joke. Hey guys... you are free to play *cough* as a gimp with no chance of anyone wanting you in a group in this social game *cough*.

The supporters say 'Hey, you dont have to play... its more free than it used to be... you can play all the way to max level as a free person its just you cant be as good as us subscribers... its totally fair!'. Lets be realistic, the people who think Vanguard or any other SoE game are worth a monthly subscription are already playing and paying that monthly fee, and theres not many of them left.

The point of going F2P is getting new players interested in the game, this wont happen with all the rediculous restrictions that SoE put in to enforce that people either subscribe or fuck off basically once they reach the end game. Why gate off all the games interesting races and classes as 'premium content'? Its the major selling point of the game and you are just going to drive people away.

They really need to look at what Aion is doing in North America, and how their developer says 'other players are content'. Vanguard without other players isnt worth playing. Get the players in, and dont be a cheap money grabbing miser.

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by Ardwulf

 

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Originally posted by ste2000
SoE don't do free to play, paying for chunks of content it's not what I call free, since it is not optional.
In short you cannot enjoy the game unless you subscribe.
SoE needs to learn how to do F2P from Asian publishers, until then do not bother (VG is a good game IMO)

---

If the previous SOE f2p games are any indication, that's rubbish. If you're some flavor of "hardcore" (whatever that means) then yeah, you're better off paying. But IMO if you're that serious about it you you ought to pay.

 

Also, in comparison to other f2p models, like, say, Turbine's, SOE gives out way, way more "content" (meaning, you know, content.)

Like what?

You need to subscribe to access the latest expansion content.

You can't communicate with anyone except your guild mates (so much for the Massive part of the game)

You can't have more than 2 Gold in your bank, which is nothing at high lvl, since you can't buy any good equipment.

You can't use high level spells (Master Spells) and you ca't wear Epic equipment, basically making your character useless in high level dungeons and Raids.

Finally you can't use the Market (AH), which together with the 2 Gold limit make it impossible for your character to be anywhere near competitive enough to enjoy high level group content.

 

All of this limitations have nothing to do with being an hardcore player or a casual one, those are essential requirement for every play style.

In short, if you don't care to play an MMORPG in solo mode then EQ2 F2P it's enjoyable, in which case I agree.

But I will also say there are far better single or multiplayer games out there which are better equipped to be played in solo mode.

This is just a big unlimited trial, you can't possibly say you are playing the real game with so mny limitations.

The EQ2 gold cap is 2 gold per level, and 5 if you're silver. The latest expansion has no content. You can use the broker to buy all you want; selling stuff takes tokens. Are you really, with a straight face, going to call the so-called "free to play" scheme dishonest while actually lying about how it works with the same breath?

Sure, "free to play" is deceptive marketing-speak, but it's the term we're using. Lots of people have suggested other words for it, but nothing's caught on. It's the market. Lots of people, myself included, balked at subscriptions way back when, and this is nothing different. Really, the way I see it you either play the games the market offers or you don't - if you find this model objectionable, there''s still a handful of sub-only games left.

I have my issues with the SOE freemium model, too, but saying that you can't play it, or that it's extremely limited unless you pay, is at least as deceptive as implying that it's totally free and just as silly as thinking players should expect to play for nothing with no limitations. I managed to put hundreds of hours into EQ2 after it went free before I spent so much as a dime - and I waited for the blockbuster triple station cash weekend to spend. That's a lot of free, in my book.

Here's the way I see the SOE model - better, IMO, than the current STO model where you buy lottery tickets for the chance of getting some worthwhile peice of gear: You play for a while for free, decide whether you like the game or not and take your time doing so, then maybe spend some money, once, to unlock what you need, with maybe a small bank of points to spent on gear unlocks, when you get gear that you decide is worthwhile. For hardcore dungeon folks that might be a couple of times a week, for raiders it might be a couple times a month. You're out maybe $10-20 a month or three into playing instead of before you even get to try it, and maybe you spend another $5 a month after that. If your needs are much more than that maybe you think about going Gold for a while.

While not "free" in the strict sense of the word, I think that's a good deal overall - better than the sub, since you can pay as you want to rather than having to pay just for access. You can sub month-to-month if, and when, you still want to, and still play when you're not subbed. Somebody starting from scratch can enjoy a great deal of EQ2 without spending a dime, and it'll probably be the same with Vanguard.

Originally posted by Ardwulf

The EQ2 gold cap is 2 gold per level, and 5 if you're silver. The latest expansion has no content. You can use the broker to buy all you want; selling stuff takes tokens. Are you really, with a straight face, going to call the so-called "free to play" scheme dishonest while actually lying about how it works with the same breath?

Sure, "free to play" is deceptive marketing-speak, but it's the term we're using. Lots of people have suggested other words for it, but nothing's caught on. It's the market. Lots of people, myself included, balked at subscriptions way back when, and this is nothing different. Really, the way I see it you either play the games the market offers or you don't - if you find this model objectionable, there''s still a handful of sub-only games left.

I have my issues with the SOE freemium model, too, but saying that you can't play it, or that it's extremely limited unless you pay, is at least as deceptive as implying that it's totally free and just as silly as thinking players should expect to play for nothing with no limitations. I managed to put hundreds of hours into EQ2 after it went free before I spent so much as a dime - and I waited for the blockbuster triple station cash weekend to spend. That's a lot of free, in my book.

Here's the way I see the SOE model - better, IMO, than the current STO model where you buy lottery tickets for the chance of getting some worthwhile peice of gear: You play for a while for free, decide whether you like the game or not and take your time doing so, then maybe spend some money, once, to unlock what you need, with maybe a small bank of points to spent on gear unlocks, when you get gear that you decide is worthwhile. For hardcore dungeon folks that might be a couple of times a week, for raiders it might be a couple times a month. You're out maybe $10-20 a month or three into playing instead of before you even get to try it, and maybe you spend another $5 a month after that. If your needs are much more than that maybe you think about going Gold for a while.

While not "free" in the strict sense of the word, I think that's a good deal overall - better than the sub, since you can pay as you want to rather than having to pay just for access. You can sub month-to-month if, and when, you still want to, and still play when you're not subbed. Somebody starting from scratch can enjoy a great deal of EQ2 without spending a dime, and it'll probably be the same with Vanguard.

 

Just because you were happy to play a gimped out character for 100s of hours, doesnt mean that other gamers are. Most gamers can see the greedy cash cow from a mile off and stay clear.

In EQ2, you defend the gold cap... any subscribed player can earn more plat than the cap with a single Protectors Realm run. I was making thousands of platinum a week while subscribed. You simply cannot buy anything worthwhile for the amount of money a F2P player has access to. Which is lucky, since you couldnt equip it anyway.

Theres an old adage that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. SoE would do well to learn from Aion and other games F2P models.

You are better off having a population of 500k players, where only half the players actually buy something from the shop, than forcing everyone to buy every single component of the game and getting only 10k players. Games like Vanguard thrive on large community, and if SoE uses they typical F2P model, there wont be one. Like the Aion developers said - players are content. Without other players, you end up with Vanguard in its current state.

The bottom line is that SoE freemium models are the worst in the industry. I cannot think of a single F2P game which has a worse payment model. They fight tooth and nail to milk their customers as much as possible. I could see a large resurgance in their games, EQ2 and Vanguard are some of the best fantasy MMOs around at the moment, but they wont get it unless they stop being such blatantly greedy bastards.

Fantastic news! I'm already really enjoying two boxing some lower lvl alts in EQ and now this news! This should surely help the population and that's the most important thing the game needs at this point.

I was skeptical about the EQ free to play and it's actually turning out to be pretty good for alt playing. Of course max lvl people whom like to raid are going to need to sub.

Well this is great news. Many of us have been hoping for this change for a LONG time. I dont quite understand the folks who say they will leave if it goes FTP. Aren't you the same ppl who complained the game didnt get any updates and the population was so horrible. Well this new and appreciated attention from FTP should be the answer to the prayers. Clearly you should know that any love SONY will give this game will only be under the banner of FTP. The days of subscriptions being the driving force which SONY is compelled to then update the game are long gone. That business model is a failure for SOH. We should all embrace this new change for it only means the begining of a new and vibrant world in SOH.

Originally posted by Ardwulf

Originally posted by ste2000

---

 

The EQ2 gold cap is 2 gold per level, and 5 if you're silver. The latest expansion has no content. You can use the broker to buy all you want; selling stuff takes tokens. Are you really, with a straight face, going to call the so-called "free to play" scheme dishonest while actually lying about how it works with the same breath?

 

I am not lying at all, you should be more honest with yourself and the rest of the community.

1) 2 Gold per level is nothing since any high lvl piece of gear which is somehow useful costs well above your Gold cap, and whoever played EQ2 intensively like I did can tell you that.

2) Yes you can buy from the AH, theoretically.............problem is you do not have enough money to buy a shit (remember the gold restriction mentioned above?), and definetly you are not allowed to sell. So no, you can't use the AH

3) You can only use the Adept Scrolls, not the Masters  which  are the ones required for high lvl dungeons and raids

4) Apart the impossibility to buy good gear on the AH, you cannot wear an Epic piece of equipment even if you had it by mistake, automatically keeping you out of high lvl dungeons and Raids

5) You can use only Guild Chat and /say, which alienate you from the Community

6) To access the latest content (dungeon/raids) you need to subscribe

What you can do is to enjoy all the solo content (quests) and low lvl dungeons up to Level Cap, but after that if you wanna keep playing and enjoy the game, you have to subscribe.

Since nowadays the leveling can be done within a month and the End Game IS the game, basically you HAVE to subscribe.

You can somehow enjoy the game only if you like to play solo and you like to reroll often, but as I said there are better solo games out there.

If you are a real MMORPG player which like to play with others the "SOE F2P" option...............is not an option

If you want to know how a real F2P works, have a look at any of the Asian MMORPGs (or GW2 just to stay closer).

SOE F2P is just an extended trial, which is good at least people can try the game (VG is a nice game) and might be tempted to subscribe.

But let's call it with the proper name (trial), not something is not.

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Originally posted by evilastro
 
Just because you were happy to play a gimped out character for 100s of hours, doesnt mean that other gamers are. Most gamers can see the greedy cash cow from a mile off and stay clear.

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"Cash cow" and "Vanguard" do not belong in the same sentence together.

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Originally posted by evilastro
 
In EQ2, you defend the gold cap... any subscribed player can earn more plat than the cap with a single Protectors Realm run. I was making thousands of platinum a week while subscribed. You simply cannot buy anything worthwhile for the amount of money a F2P player has access to. Which is lucky, since you couldnt equip it anyway.

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If by "defend the gold cap" you mean that I said what the cap actually is, rather than what you said it was, then guilty as charged, I guess.

It's no secret that the plat cap is the EQ2 f2p model's most serious problem, and it's been discussed to death elsewhere. As you level up it starts to become a bigger and bigger hindrance and at the cap it's a disaster, but you can still get a lot of play in without it really coming up. There are also at least two ways around the plat cap that I can think of, so it's not really the problem you think it to be.

I actually agree that the SOE model is more restrictive than it ought to be. I think you ought to be able to buy the gold cap into going away and I also think you should be able to buy more shared bank slots, off the top of my head. I'm simply rejecting the assertion being made here that it's unplayable broken. That's just nonsense, and the Cryptic and Turbine models have just as many problems.

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Originally posted by evilastro
 
Theres an old adage that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. SoE would do well to learn from Aion and other games F2P models.
You are better off having a population of 500k players, where only half the players actually buy something from the shop, than forcing everyone to buy every single component of the game and getting only 10k players. Games like Vanguard thrive on large community, and if SoE uses they typical F2P model, there wont be one.

---

One thing that has been left out of the discussion so far is that there are only two servers currently, one of them almost totally empty. It really won't take tons and tons of people to hugely bolster the population of the existing servers. Maybe they'l need to add new servers (which would be nice, because lots of people would like to see the return of the FFA PvP server) and maybe they won't, but the bar is really very low right now. The idea that 500K people would magically start playing Vanguard if it became totally free in every way is preposterous. Now 50k? That's totally plausible, even if Vanguard ends up using the exact same model that EQ2 does. And that would be something like 10 times as many players as the game currently has. The two existing servers would be waist-deep in players.
 
I think Aion is a dreadful game, so no matter how attractive their model is, that argument falls on deaf ears for me. However, you are basically taking NCSoft's word for how their untried model will work and evolve at face value while criticizing SOE for how you presume their model will work. PLus you've parrotted a byunch of stuff that's flatly false. So you will pardon me, therefore, for not taking what you say very seriously, and for dismissing you as a naysayer.

Also, incidentally, the Aion model relies on cheap Asian labor to produce tons of art assets for cosmetic items, which is not an option SOE can pursue to the same extent.

---

Originally posted by ste2000
 

 

I am not lying at all, you should be more honest with yourself and the rest of the community.
1) 2 Gold per level is nothing since any high lvl piece of gear which is somehow useful costs well above your Gold cap, and whoever played EQ2 intensively like I did can tell you that.
2) Yes you can buy from the AH, theoretically.............problem is you do not have enough money to buy a shit (remember the gold restriction mentioned above?), and definetly you are not allowed to sell. So no, you can't use the AH
3) You can only use the Adept Scrolls, not the Masters  which  are the ones required for high lvl dungeons and raids
4) Apart the impossibility to buy good gear on the AH, you cannot wear an Epic piece of equipment even if you had it by mistake, automatically keeping you out of high lvl dungeons and Raids
5) You can use only Guild Chat and /say, which alienate you from the Community
6) To access the latest content (dungeon/raids) you need to subscribe

---

See the previous post for more on the plat cap. If you plan to play "intensively," why should you not expect to pay something? I find your sense of entitlement facinating.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I've tried Vanguard several times as it has many key things that I typically do enjoy.

However almost everything about vanguard seemed kinda of... meh.  It didn't really have anything better to pull me away from the other games I was playing.

Graphics - enivonment is great.  Can't stand the way the charracters look or run.

Housing - yep they have it, but only a few models - far too limited for my taste.

What MMO have you played that has nine dufferent style of houses and three types of vast guild house all in the open world.

Flight - I'll give them good props for this.

Dip - yes they had something different.  However I found this to be extremely dull.

Classes - lots of classes but nothing that really grabbed me.  I like the bard method of making your own songs.  But nothing else seemed particular great, they weren't bad, just not good enough to take me away from my other games.

Really! and what classes grab you then because Vaanguard has some great classes,healers that melee to heal,and blood mages that are casters and healers,the list goes on.

Quests - lots but kind of dull

There are 1000s of quest in Vanguard and so are dull but many are great and fun,especially in the open dungeons.

Crafting - you can customize which is great.  But their methods seemed too dull, more of a click fest than anything.

I had to LOL at this

So again they had a lot, but didn't really excell at anything IMO, and this was the biggest problem, everything was just ok.

 

You obviously didn't get very far in Vanguard.

What MMO have you played that has nine dufferent style of houses and three types of vast guild house all in the open world.

Istaria for one - hundreds of styles to choose from all in the open world.  ATiTD lets me build pretty much anything.  And CoH though not open world, allows me to build my base pretty much any way I want. 

Really! and what classes grab you then because Vaanguard has some great classes,healers that melee to heal,and blood mages that are casters and healers,the list goes on.

As I said the only way that grabbed me was bard.  Everything else seemed so similar to everything else, with just a different spell effect or different name

Quests - lots but kind of dull

There are 1000s of quest in Vanguard and so are dull but many are great and fun,especially in the open dungeons.

They seemed pretty standard to me, nothing great.

I had to LOL at this

Laugh all you want, thats what it was to me.  Pretty grindy

Did I get very far, not too far, as far as I wanted or needed to, only to about lvl 30 5-6 times. 

edit - so while it does have a lot.  It's crafting is not enough to pull me away from Istaria.  The housing is not enough to pull me from Istaria or CoH.  The adventuring was not enough to take me from either of those games or even WoW.

It just doesn't do anything great IMO

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I've tried Vanguard several times as it has many key things that I typically do enjoy.

However almost everything about vanguard seemed kinda of... meh.  It didn't really have anything better to pull me away from the other games I was playing.

Graphics - enivonment is great.  Can't stand the way the charracters look or run.

Housing - yep they have it, but only a few models - far too limited for my taste.

Flight - I'll give them good props for this.

Dip - yes they had something different.  However I found this to be extremely dull.

Classes - lots of classes but nothing that really grabbed me.  I like the bard method of making your own songs.  But nothing else seemed particular great, they weren't bad, just not good enough to take me away from my other games.

Quests - lots but kind of dull

Crafting - you can customize which is great.  But their methods seemed too dull, more of a click fest than anything.

So again they had a lot, but didn't really excell at anything IMO, and this was the biggest problem, everything was just ok.

 

[Mod Edit]

I have tried it, several times.  Because it has many things that I typically do like.  However as I stated it did not do them better than the other games, so it doesn't have anything to pull me from those other games.

IMO there is nothing in Vanguard that is great.  IMO Crafting is better is other games, adventuring is better in other games, housing is better in other games,  Classes are better in other games.  Vanguards was just ok, and that was it.

If it launched today, bug free, it may be better but there is still nothing here that it does better than other games.

edit - nor would I want to play with a person who is so childish that they insult someone merely for having a different opinion.

I definitely think it's not too late. I am so looking forward to going back to Telon. I'll be more than happy to pay a sub so long as there are a decent number of people in the game and I think making it f2p is exactly whats going to do that. Vanguard is loved by many, played by few because SOE hasn't put any effort into it in ages.

I understand that it's a double-edged sword. A game can't have content being made for it if people aren't willing to pay a sub, and people aren't willing to pay a sub if there are no people. But now that it's going F2P, this is going to bring in the much needed players and revenue. Of that I have zero doubts.

I look forward to a brighter tomorrow for Telon. Summer 2012 is shaping up to be a busy MMO-time for me. Haha.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by kantseeme

I have tried it, several times.  Because it has many things that I typically do like.  However as I stated it did not do them better than the other games, so it doesn't have anything to pull me from those other games.

IMO there is nothing in Vanguard that is great.  IMO Crafting is better is other games, adventuring is better in other games, housing is better in other games,  Classes are better in other games.  Vanguards was just ok, and that was it.

If it launched today, bug free, it may be better but there is still nothing here that it does better than other games.

edit - nor would I want to play with a person who is so childish that they insult someone merely for having a different opinion.

The game doesn't back up your opinion because it is not fact, just opinion.

You are welcome to whatever opinion you wish.  I never stated nor implied in any form that you did not have that right.  Nor did I say that I have it and you don't. [Mod Edit]

Originally posted by Ardwulf

If by "defend the gold cap" you mean that I said what the cap actually is, rather than what you said it was, then guilty as charged, I guess.

I didnt say the gold cap was anything. You are both wrong actually, its 20 gold per level, a total of 18 platinum at level 90. for silver, not sure what bronze is. But what I said was spot on, thats too low to buy anything worthwhile. Even mastercrafted will set you back more.

One thing that has been left out of the discussion so far is that there are only two servers currently, one of them almost totally empty. It really won't take tons and tons of people to hugely bolster the population of the existing servers. Maybe they'l need to add new servers (which would be nice, because lots of people would like to see the return of the FFA PvP server) and maybe they won't, but the bar is really very low right now. The idea that 500K people would magically start playing Vanguard if it became totally free in every way is preposterous. Now 50k? That's totally plausible, even if Vanguard ends up using the exact same model that EQ2 does. And that would be something like 10 times as many players as the game currently has. The two existing servers would be waist-deep in players.

If they follow the EQ1 / EQ2 model they will just get a boost for a few months while people level then back down to slightly higher than pre-F2P once they realise its the usual SoE crap of segmenting players and blocking content / character progression with a brick wall. If they did a decent F2P model there would be much more interest. People dont mind buying appearance gear, convenience items and mounts, but SoE just just takes the piss. They create barriers and then charge to unlock them.
 
I think Aion is a dreadful game, so no matter how attractive their model is, that argument falls on deaf ears for me. However, you are basically taking NCSoft's word for how their untried model will work and evolve at face value while criticizing SOE for how you presume their model will work. PLus you've parrotted a byunch of stuff that's flatly false. So you will pardon me, therefore, for not taking what you say very seriously, and for dismissing you as a naysayer.

Also, incidentally, the Aion model relies on cheap Asian labor to produce tons of art assets for cosmetic items, which is not an option SOE can pursue to the same extent.

What exactly did I say that was false? Anyone with a brain can see what a rip off SoE F2P is, so excuse me if I would like to see Vanguard actually succeed, rather than follow the footsteps of EQ2. Even if you dont like Aion, look at any other F2P game to see a better model than SoE. Aion just has the best of the bunch.
 

Originally posted by Ardwulf

 

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Originally posted by ste2000
 

 

I am not lying at all, you should be more honest with yourself and the rest of the community.
1) 2 Gold per level is nothing since any high lvl piece of gear which is somehow useful costs well above your Gold cap, and whoever played EQ2 intensively like I did can tell you that.
2) Yes you can buy from the AH, theoretically.............problem is you do not have enough money to buy a shit (remember the gold restriction mentioned above?), and definetly you are not allowed to sell. So no, you can't use the AH
3) You can only use the Adept Scrolls, not the Masters  which  are the ones required for high lvl dungeons and raids
4) Apart the impossibility to buy good gear on the AH, you cannot wear an Epic piece of equipment even if you had it by mistake, automatically keeping you out of high lvl dungeons and Raids
5) You can use only Guild Chat and /say, which alienate you from the Community
6) To access the latest content (dungeon/raids) you need to subscribe

---

 

See the previous post for more on the plat cap. If you plan to play "intensively," why should you not expect to pay something? I find your sense of entitlement facinating.

I said I USED to play intensively, and I already looked at the previous post and as I said that that's not enough to buy competitive gear, no matter how you twist it..

The limitations that I listed though, are required to play "normally", you don't need to be an hardcore player  in order to require those features.

The only way you can enjoy somewhat this so called F2P, is if you like to play solo and reroll frequently but you are not interested whatsoever to the End Game, in which case I ask, why you play MMOs at all.

I find fascinating the fact you don't understand something so simple, if you have to unlock features or content in order to compete as equals with other players, then it is not F2P...........it is a trial, an extended one but never than less a trial.

F2P games should give you the chance to compete as equal with any player by playing the game itself, of course who uses the cash shop has the chance to level faster or get the best equipment sooner by buying it.............but the free player is not stopped from getting it by playing the game, it will just take longer to acquire the items.

That's how real F2P works and that's why they are so popular in Asia and make tons of money.

Originally posted by ste2000

The only way you can enjoy somewhat this so called F2P, is if you like to play solo and reroll frequently but you are not interested whatsoever to the End Game, in which case I ask, why you play MMOs at all.

This is the point that SoE and it's defenders fail to grasp.

You are free to play the game, just don't expect to be desirable for groups or anything that makes a MMO worth playing.

No way in hell would I ever have grouped with a F2P player when I was playing EQ2. The gimpness would have been an instant fail.

The personal argument is over - back on topic please.

Vanguard will officially adopt a f2p model similar to other SoE f2p titles, such as eq1/eq2.

In this aspect, you should know that SoEs so called "f2p" mmorpgs (eq1/eq2) are NOT f2p at all. I have absolutely no idea why every1 is referring to these games as f2p titles.

If it was f2p, then there wouldn't be such drastic restrictions in every aspect - 4/16 races, 4/16 classes, very low spell ranks, limitations on AA, guild limitations, strong limitation on chat functions, strong limitation on max gold/character, the list goes on...

basically, it's a DEMO of the game. similar to a trial - but unlike other MMOs, not restricted to time or a max level but instead to drastic limitations of game mechanics. every1 who knows eq1/eq2 is aware that you just won't get too far with a f2p account.

Guild Wars is a f2p title. But EQ1 and EQ2 are subscription based games with a monthly fee period.

This is the game's last best shot.  If this don't revive it, nothing will.

I just hope they do it right.