Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by niceguy3978

It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems.  Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it.  Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.

Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2? 

Becaue EVE has the biggest currency sink in any MMO. It's called PVP.

So, a game with out such PvP can not have a large enough currency sink? 

You asked why it's not a big deal in EVE. I told you why....I have no idea what gold sinks will be in GW2. I hope it's got heavy ones. Because there will be a lot of gold trading going on.

So RMT was OK before "The moment ANet announced GW2 would have it."  It certainly became more controversial when ANet announced it. Maybe because we can all speculate on how good or bad it will be. Don't get me wrong it's fun and leads to many a long discussion thread. 

Originally posted by Muntz

So RMT was OK before "The moment ANet announced GW2 would have it."  It certainly became more controversial when ANet announced it. Maybe because we can all speculate on how good or bad it will be. Don't get me wrong it's fun and leads to many a long discussion thread. 

Actually this 'debate' has been going on for years. Nothing new there.

Every so often it sparks up and the division of the Fors/Against rise up like the tide and argue it.

Nothing wrong with it, it's what forums are for, IMO. 

Why is it okay that someone's real life advantage of being in college or highschool or living in their mom's basement gives them an advantage in game?

Funny how it's okay that someone real life time advantage is okay, but someone using their monetary advantage is not.

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by niceguy3978

It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems.  Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it.  Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.

Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2? 

Becaue EVE has the biggest currency sink in any MMO. It's called PVP.

So, a game with out such PvP can not have a large enough currency sink? 

You asked why it's not a big deal in EVE. I told you why....I have no idea what gold sinks will be in GW2. I hope it's got heavy ones. Because there will be a lot of gold trading going on.

So RMT was OK before "The moment ANet announced GW2 would have it."  It certainly became more controversial when ANet announced it. Maybe because we can all speculate on how good or bad it will be. Don't get me wrong it's fun and leads to many a long discussion thread. 

I will never ever accept that cash shops are good for a game...Ever.

there are varying degrees of "bad" but they all are.

My comment about ANet was a bit of sarcasm directed at the fanbois for GW2. And yes there are threads out there where thay have actually come out and stated they think it will be a good thing because it will control the gold sellers......lol.

That's funny when EVERYONE's a gold seller now.

Buy a gem, trade a gem, aquire a gem...yp you participated in gold selling....just that this time it's sanctioned so it's OK.

Originally posted by Angier2758

Why is it okay that someone's real life advantage of being in college or highschool or living in their mom's basement gives them an advantage in game?

Funny how it's okay that someone real life time advantage is okay, but someone using their monetary advantage is not.

 

Because your parents busted their asses to pay for you to go to college with hard work and money that came from THIS WORLD. Not filtered in from some user in another universe playing god over your life.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

I will never ever accept that cash shops are good for a game...Ever.

there are varying degrees of "bad" but they all are.

My comment about ANet was a bit of sarcasm directed at the fanbois for GW2. And yes there are threads out there where thay have actually come out and stated they think it will be a good thing because it will control the gold sellers......lol.

That's funny when EVERYONE's a gold seller now.

Buy a gem, trade a gem, aquire a gem...yp you participated in gold selling....just that this time it's sanctioned so it's OK.

Of course it's OK, it was put in by Anet.

The reasons for/against are just opinions by those polarized about the issue.

Because you think it's not OK does not make it so for all. It's simply your opinion and should be respected as such.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

I will never ever accept that cash shops are good for a game...Ever.

there are varying degrees of "bad" but they all are.

My comment about ANet was a bit of sarcasm directed at the fanbois for GW2. And yes there are threads out there where thay have actually come out and stated they think it will be a good thing because it will control the gold sellers......lol.

That's funny when EVERYONE's a gold seller now.

Buy a gem, trade a gem, aquire a gem...yp you participated in gold selling....just that this time it's sanctioned so it's OK.

Of course it's OK, it was put in by Anet.

The reasons for/against are just opinions by those polarized about the issue.

Because you think it's not OK does not make it so for all. It's simply your opinion and should be respected as such.

 

It's OK because it's the best thing for ANet/NCSoft. Not necessarily the players of GW2.

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by niceguy3978

It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems.  Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it.  Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.

Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2? 

Becaue EVE has the biggest currency sink in any MMO. It's called PVP.

So, a game with out such PvP can not have a large enough currency sink? 

You asked why it's not a big deal in EVE. I told you why....I have no idea what gold sinks will be in GW2. I hope it's got heavy ones. Because there will be a lot of gold trading going on.

So RMT was OK before "The moment ANet announced GW2 would have it."  It certainly became more controversial when ANet announced it. Maybe because we can all speculate on how good or bad it will be. Don't get me wrong it's fun and leads to many a long discussion thread. 

Bullsh*t.  Eve got blasted for opening their cs to the point that they had to have a "summit" about it with people within the game.  The eve forums and the forums here went apeshit over it.

Edit: I have never seen such a defense for RMT that the GW2 fans have put forth.  Remember WoW's sparkle ponies?  Holy hell, you would have thought they were selling the epic weapon of godliness.  I've never seen RMT defended to the extent that it has been for this game.

2nd edit:  I should also point out that I have no problem with what anet is doing.  It doesn't bother me at all.  I use to think that I was in a minority on this issue, but since GW2 announced this it went from something that was bad to even mention to something worth defending.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by whisperwynd
 

Of course it's OK, it was put in by Anet.

The reasons for/against are just opinions by those polarized about the issue.

Because you think it's not OK does not make it so for all. It's simply your opinion and should be respected as such.

 

It's OK because it's the best thing for ANet/NCSoft. Not necessarily the players of GW2.

See? That's your perspective because as obvious to this and many other threads, not all the players agree. Some like it, while I could care less since I've never bought anything from them anyway.

If it hurts the game in the future, only those that have invested in it will suffer. Those that won't even buy it should have nothing to worry about, even less to fret over.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Muntz

So RMT was OK before "The moment ANet announced GW2 would have it."  It certainly became more controversial when ANet announced it. Maybe because we can all speculate on how good or bad it will be. Don't get me wrong it's fun and leads to many a long discussion thread. 

Actually this 'debate' has been going on for years. Nothing new there.

Every so often it sparks up and the division of the Fors/Against rise up like the tide and argue it.

Nothing wrong with it, it's what forums are for, IMO. 

true enough

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by whisperwynd
 

Of course it's OK, it was put in by Anet.

The reasons for/against are just opinions by those polarized about the issue.

Because you think it's not OK does not make it so for all. It's simply your opinion and should be respected as such.

 

It's OK because it's the best thing for ANet/NCSoft. Not necessarily the players of GW2.

See? That's your perspective because as obvious to this and many other threads, not all the players agree. Some like it, while I could care less since I've never bought anything from them anyway.

If it hurts the game in the future, only those that have invested in it will suffer. Those that won't even buy it should have nothing to worry about, even less to fret over.

I can't argue.

But I won't call a big steaming turd in the middle of the dining room table a "cernter piece"  that's just how I see Cash Shops.

If it's RMT, it's not a "don't buy if you don't like it" issue. It's more of a "don't play if you don't like it" issue, because it's pervasive and it surely does effect you. So as more and more games do RMT, players who dislike RMT are running out of games to play. Hence the resentment.

When you go and pay real money to get in-game money, that's an unfair advantage, plain and simple. Really, how is it fair; there's going to be nothing worthy in terms of gameplay that you can buy with in-game currency? Nothing you can buy with gold is going to effect your gameplay? That's absurd. Even if you can buy buff food with game currency that you bought with real money, that's unfair advantage right there.

EVE has Plex that you can turn into money pretty quickly and it *surely* gives you an advantage. It doesn't turn you into a killer or even make you a better player on the spot, but it makes it possible for you to get better gear faster or come back more quickly after getting killed.

Next we'll have quiz shows where you can buy out "choices" with real money. :P

(But then, hey, maybe we already do, I don't watch TV)

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

I can't argue.

But I won't call a big steaming turd in the middle of the dining room table a "cernter piece"  that's just how I see Cash Shops.

No need to argue, it's a discussion.

However, if you've been following a little on science, you'd know the japanese have been experimenting with 'turd' as a food source..FYI

http://www.dailytech.com/Japanese+Make+Delicious+Nourishing+Steaks+From+Human+Feces/article21932.htm 

Food for thought.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by niceguy3978

It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems.  Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it.  Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.

Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2? 

 

For plex, because the hardcore veterans got to play for free as the Plex(gems) could be used for gametime(expansions) so there was a trade off in real cash terms. For the p2W cash shop, Eve players had a virtual riot and quit in droves to stop it, CCP had to stop their company expanding and back down, if only GW2 fans had the decency to do something similar rather than suddenly all cheer "Hurrah, we love cash shops they are brilliant, thank you so much". It's an embarrassment.

This. I find it amusing how many people are cheering it on, and its always the 'you don't have to buy it you can play for free' argument that amuses me the most. It might be true to a point, but if noone is buying there will be consenquences and those come in one word, NCSoft. They own arena net, and this game just doesn't need to do 'well'. This games devolopment may not be tor big, but I can't see this game being in devolopment for as long as it has costing less then aion. I would guess it cost significantly more then aion and if gw2 cash shop does not out perform, both aion and l2 cash shops there is going to be an intervention. All the box sales are going to do is give it a 'grace period' before the cash shop needs to start bringing in the real profits.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

I can't argue.

But I won't call a big steaming turd in the middle of the dining room table a "cernter piece"  that's just how I see Cash Shops.

No need to argue, it's a discussion.

However, if you've been following a little on science, you'd know the japanese have been experimenting with 'turd' as a food source..FYI

http://www.dailytech.com/Japanese+Make+Delicious+Nourishing+Steaks+From+Human+Feces/article21932.htm 

 

Food for thought.

HAHA!!!!

Touche

Edit 1: Where on Earth did dig up that?....Never mind..I don't think I want to know.

 Blame developers all you want but the bottom line is people accept it. If it was such a bad thing then perhaps people would not buy from the cash shop to send a message but they don't.

I think this whole topic falls squarly into the purveiw of the "back in my day" clause:

When did it become okay for candy to cost more than a nickle?

When did it become okay for the internet to be charged a flat fee per month rather than hourly like in the beginning?

When did it become okay to have unlimited talking/texting plans for cell phones?

When did it become okay to feature all-you-can-eat buffets?

When did it become okay to put caps on bandwidth usage?

When did it become okay to stream all the movies/TV you want for a monthly flat rate?

The future marches on.

Things change.

Markets change.

Business models change.

Personally? I like the subscription based business model for MMOs - but that doesn't mean I'm adverse to trying something new for a game I'm really excited about.

@OP

It's not okay for a P2P game to sell additional items that have an in-game advantage IMO.  They can still do it but I don't think it's right.  Pets, Mounts, visual only clothing, etc. these things are borderline okay IMO.  Reason being they are taking sub money up front to make something you have to pay for additionally.  As time goes on the item shop might support itself but only the company's financial department would know that.

When 3rd party RMT traders made gold selling a lucrative business the ball started rolling.  The game software we buy and sub we pay does not make the game "ours".  We rent the entertainment even though it feels like our property because we spend so much time on our characters.  The IP belongs to the developers (or parent company of) so if anyone is going to be making real money off the game apart from box/sub it should be that entity.

There are two subjects going on here.  3rd party RMT for gold is vastly different than a company item shop.

I don't mind if people are allowed to buy into the game at the lvl cap...actually I think this is a great Idea for casual players who have no intersted in the leveling process.

My problem with a cash buy in to a game is when the publishers are selling uber gear only available in the cash shop and not to general play accounts.

As long as cash buy ins and general play accounts are equal its all good in my opinion.

I will not play any game where the cash shop is selling uber items not available in general play. A perfect example is Aika, Ruins of Magic(pay to win ). Played them both got spanked by PKs with cash shot only gear and quit playing both.

To claim that "vanity" items, even xp and recovery boost scrolls, are the same as the spamming gold sellers is far far far from the truth.

To be honest the chance to only put the moiney I deem to be worth spending, into my game time is fantastic in my view.

I used to get way more than $15 dollars a month of game play, but now I have a full time job, wife, child, and house to take care of. I cringe when I spend my sub fees.

Let me buy a character slot here, a xp boost here, some bag slots, maybe some vanity items on occasion. That way I pay ONLY what I want, and deem to be worth the cost.

On the subject of "my guild is insisting I have what ever CS item to do what ever instance or whatever".........SERIOUSLY???? Grow up, quit said guild of jerks, stop being whiney.