would u buy gem from Anet  if gold seller can sell cheaper? see it defeats the purpose of  running around in circle. 

Originally posted by Madimorga

Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

 

And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

Guess I won't be killing you in the Eternal Battlegrounds. What a shame.

Originally posted by Master_M2K

Originally posted by Metentso

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

The Guild System will offers boost of their own, so I could care less if the cash shop offers a +20% XP for 12hrs scroll. Wouldn't affect my gameplay. "Pay-2-Look Cool" or "Pay-to-Skip"... eitherway I doubt it would be "Pay-to-Win".

What about if the cash shop offered influence boosts which in turn can be used to get those Guild System boosts faster?  The DE/CE edition already has a flat influence item (and glory).  EXP boosts are pretty meaningless, the real potential problem here is that they could sell loot, karma, glory, and influence boosts and label it a convenience item when they do have an effect on gameplay in that a player can acquire these currencies that are used for gear (or other more permenant currency boosts through the guild influence system) much faster through the use of real money.

Originally posted by Master_M2K

Originally posted by Madimorga

Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

 

And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

Guess I won't be killing you in the Eternal Battlegrounds. What a shame.

Nope, the way this is shaping up market pvp will be the only thing in this game that interests me.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

 

And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

WvW isn't about individual skill or effort though, the only way that would be an issue is if everyone on the opposing force had such an advantage while everyone on your side didn't. How likely is that?

Originally posted by Madimorga

Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

 

And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

Couple things.

1) If 99% of the people in wvw are max level and you, being a lowly level one, suck because you haven't got enough skills, quit wasting time wvwing and go level. And if you want to level via pvp.../shrug.

2) Levelling is finite. Yay. Maybe for a couple days, that cash shop player might be ahead of you. Then you hit max level and it stops mattering

3) If WvW ends up as massive as Anet wants, there will be hordes of players from 3 servers all fighting at once...garauntee you there will be a signifigant mix of low and high level players at all times. So you won't be the only one with less skill points. From a team perspective, it will all balance out. From an individual....well if you're a lower level walking into wvw and hoping to top leaderboaards, you have another thought coming.

4) WvW isn't going to be won by kills. It will be won by capturing points, acquiring supplies, and using those suplies to build offensive/defensive structures. From what I can tell, your individual stats don't affect those. So your states and individual combat effectiveness may not per se have a huge impact on WvW gameplay as much as teamwork and organization. Crazy concept, I know, but let's see if it works.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Originally posted by Master_M2K

Originally posted by Metentso

*snip*

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

The Guild System will offers boost of their own, so I could care less if the cash shop offers a +20% XP for 12hrs scroll. Wouldn't affect my gameplay. "Pay-2-Look Cool" or "Pay-to-Skip"... eitherway I doubt it would be "Pay-to-Win".

What about if the cash shop offered influence boosts which in turn can be used to get those Guild System boosts faster?  The DE/CE edition already has a flat influence item (and glory).  EXP boosts are pretty meaningless, the real potential problem here is that they could sell loot, karma, glory, and influence boosts and label it a convenience item when they do have an effect on gameplay in that a player can acquire these currencies that are used for gear (or other more permenant currency boosts through the guild influence system) much faster through the use of real money.

A cash shop Influence boost of sorts will only work well for a guild, if everyone got it and I doubt any guild can get everyone to fork over cash for for the boost, when there is already an in-game way to boost your entire guild's influence gains. Same with PvP. Be a part of a PvP guild and boost your Glory gains. Even if the shop sold a Glory booster, it still isn't "Pay-to-Win" with GW2's normalized PvP gear system. Not even going to waste my time talking about loot.

Originally posted by Master_M2K

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Originally posted by Master_M2K

Originally posted by Metentso

*snip*

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

The Guild System will offers boost of their own, so I could care less if the cash shop offers a +20% XP for 12hrs scroll. Wouldn't affect my gameplay. "Pay-2-Look Cool" or "Pay-to-Skip"... eitherway I doubt it would be "Pay-to-Win".

What about if the cash shop offered influence boosts which in turn can be used to get those Guild System boosts faster?  The DE/CE edition already has a flat influence item (and glory).  EXP boosts are pretty meaningless, the real potential problem here is that they could sell loot, karma, glory, and influence boosts and label it a convenience item when they do have an effect on gameplay in that a player can acquire these currencies that are used for gear (or other more permenant currency boosts through the guild influence system) much faster through the use of real money.

A cash shop Influence boost of sorts will only work well for a guild, if everyone got it and I doubt any guild can get everyone to fork over cash for for the boost, when there is already an in-game way to boost your entire guild's influence gains. Same with PvP. Be a part of a PvP guild and boost your Glory gains. Even if the shop sold a Glory booster, it still isn't "Pay-to-Win" with GW2's normalized PvP gear system. Not even going to waste my time talking about loot.

I'm sure there will be hardcore guilds that encourage everyone to buy the bonus.  Yes, you can get bonuses through the guild system, but they'll probably stack with the bonuses from pots (if there are even pots in the cash shop, it's all speculation at this point) so you'll be getting a double bonus.  Depending on the scale of the bonuses, this could be a huge advantage starting out for a guild with loads of members willing to pay for the boosts.  Not only will they acquire the bonuses faster (such as a 3% karma boost) than a non-paying guild, but they'll also have the bonuses of the potions themselves on top of that creating a large gap in their favor out of the gate.

One crux of the issue that I see people arguing about is the gold farmers. Gold farmers operate in one of two ways: 1) they hack other people's accounts to steal loot and gold, or 2) they program a bot operation or make macros.

Anet basically already has both of these farming venues closed down.

With the original GW, Anet has an impeccable track record with account security; I see no reason for it to be any different with GW2.

Second, botting and macro'ing are basically null and void for one reason: Dynamic Events. The main source for gold is probably the DE's and selling the loot spawned from event/dungeon chests; few events have static triggers. This means that bots and macros don't have a static field of creeps that are worth anything to farm all day on. Further, the aggro mechanics are not like in other games, you won't be able to trail a huge mob of enemies to a choke point to have an ally farm them.

Will people still try to farm lots and lots of gold? Without a doubt. Will botters be able to hyper-inflate the market with gold? Highly doubtful.

Originally posted by Metentso

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

Very few will agree with you that boosts are P2W

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Metentso

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

Very few will agree with you that boosts are P2W

I am one of them. Being able to level or gain Karma faster doesn't bother me. New players will be joining the game for a long time after release. Why shouldn't they be able to buy a boost item? I might even buy a boost item for my alt if the game is good enough.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Metentso

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

Very few will agree with you that boosts are P2W

Agreed. Anyone who truely thinks Boosts are Pay 2 Win have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, knows nothing of the genre, or just plain trolls.

If GW2 is anything like GW1, having a ton of gold wont mean anything.  If you were rich in GW1 it meant  you could get  rare mini pets, afford the mats for a cosmetically appealing set of armor, or a kewl weapon skin.  Seems to me that GW2 will operate in a similar fashion.  

Lets just wait for release and see how the system plays out.  I'm sure if it needs tweeking, Anet will be fast to react and make the necessary changes.

Originally posted by DShepley60

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Metentso

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

Very few will agree with you that boosts are P2W

Agreed. Anyone who truely thinks Boosts are Pay 2 Win have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, knows nothing of the genre, or just plain trolls.

yea,there should be better boost items ,but its still in beta so i hope those will be in-game when it hits live,because im not a troll,i know everything about the genre,so boost are the best ,now we just need better boosts,like,potion of holymoses = gives all items in the game, trousers of death = kill all enemies in the map,ring of Chuck Norris = neverending healthbar , love potion No:42 = all quests completed, etc ,boosts are here to stay ,rest go away!

better boosts = better game,right?

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ariboersma

I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

He might be right of course, but RoMs cashshop sells gear with stats and similar things so it isn't neccesarily true for GW2 as well.

To be honest does the stuff GW2 peddle you seems like junk with just different appearance or that make you level faster, you can´t compare that with selling gear that is far above standard gear.

oh i agree. i dont think gw2 will be pay to win at all.  but he didnt compare that part of RoM to Gw2. he compared the parts he saw a similar.  the trading of gems for gold.

he also said in the comments that p2w = pay to look good.

I completely disregard anything that person as to say after I know his thought process

HAHAHA to the OP's link. One if you think RoM's cash shop will be anything like GW2 you are smoking crack I played RoM 3 years from beta and there CS went from ok at the start to major fast P2W. You can only get the Puri stones from the CS that clean Rip stats from gear this gets expensive fast when it takes 4 per peice of gear. Then times that by 4 so now we are 4x4 per peice of gear and this goes for every peice of gear from lvl 50 to what ever cap is and you should change out your gear every 5 lvls or so to stay up above the power of the mobs in normal zones using stats from quest gear and white armor this isnt raids that you have to have the best gear for from running instances. Also they have a major death penalty in this game like EQ:OA where you get massive EXP dept that takes ethier all your dailys to get rid of or buy an item in the CS to remove it. Next add the fact that if you wan ta mount you can only get them from the CS. This game you have to use the CS and not just $30 to $100 will cover the cost to get oyu going try $1000 to $2000 a month and your alot closer. If GW2 is anywhere near this I wouldn't waste my time but they said nothing in there CS is P2W its mostly cosmedic gear and exp scrolls and like another poster said thats for lazy people who want to speed lvl in a game where the lvling curve is flat not vertical like all other games. So yeah please OP link to real articals cause like I said comparying this to RoM put  a huge smile across my face at how thie writer is so just plain stupied and the diamonds where removed from the AH for more then just fraud they cost more on the ah then he stated sometimes they stayed a steady 100k for a month or 2 if sales where going on.

Originally posted by Herodes

I bought a fluff item in GW1 cash shop which was advertised as "limited". Today they still offer it.

Sorry, but if you do something like this, do it like...god I hate to say it... do it like WoW.

Edit: Wedding couple attire

The deal was limited. With any costume that comes in a pair, they offer both costumes for $15.00 instead of each for $10.00.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

 

And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

Someone leveling faster matters a whole lot..?

You do realize that if you started playing ANY themepark game out there some time after launch, it would be the same thing?

People would have more gold than you, be higher level and have better gear, so someone starting a month after launch might as well not bother at all then... and since the gear in most of those games have a heavy vertical progression it would take a lot more time to catch up than it will in GW2.

Time is the difference, and in GW2 people can buy time... and the leveling curve goes flat after lvl 20, so a lvl 80 wont be as far ahead as he would be in most other games.

Two things I worry about:

1) More players means more players banging on the door trying to exploit the system.  RMT has its own set of standards that HAVE to work correctly or things break inside and outside of the game.  AN may think they have enough protection in place to stop it, but when the attacks start, they can possibly find out otherwise.  This Gold to Gems to Gold system is a calculated risk.

2) A Golden Rule of MMORPG's is that what a developer says today applies for today.  They are under NO OBLIGATION to stick to their words 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year into the future.  No matter how many people scream LIARS at them, developers throw change-ups all the time, based on their business decisions.  If the game has slipped from a peak population and AN feels they have nothing to lose and $$$ to gain, you'll see PTW items as they cash out one more time on the game.  A new boss could arrive and do it even if the game is thriving, just because they think $$$ > loss of players.

Shorter: ArenaNet can change their minds anytime, for any reason, and therefore trusting them to stick to their guns is foolhardy.

It's unfair to AN, really, if they really do never intend to soup up the cash shop.  They can blame their fellow developers for poisoning the trust well.

Originally posted by Rommie10-284

Two things I worry about:

1) More players means more players banging on the door trying to exploit the system.  RMT has its own set of standards that HAVE to work correctly or things break inside and outside of the game.  AN may think they have enough protection in place to stop it, but when the attacks start, they can possibly find out otherwise.  This Gold to Gems to Gold system is a calculated risk.

 

2) A Golden Rule of MMORPG's is that what a developer says today applies for today.  They are under NO OBLIGATION to stick to their words 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year into the future.  No matter how many people scream LIARS at them, developers throw change-ups all the time, based on their business decisions.  If the game has slipped from a peak population and AN feels they have nothing to lose and $$$ to gain, you'll see PTW items as they cash out one more time on the game.  A new boss could arrive and do it even if the game is thriving, just because they think $$$ > loss of players.

Shorter: ArenaNet can change their minds anytime, for any reason, and therefore trusting them to stick to their guns is foolhardy.

It's unfair to AN, really, if they really do never intend to soup up the cash shop.  They can blame their fellow developers for poisoning the trust well.

 I would prefer if I choose to play this game, that the community were HUGE. Anyone who has been around MMO's for any length of time especially the past few years will notice that games without a lot of people either die off completely or go heavy down the cash shop road. I keep seeing people around these forums and others telling people fine, be gone if you aren't happy! Very silly. Chase everyone away, make a smaller community world wide and that is not good at all. And I agree, they can blame fellow devs from other games who have gone this way, people come here from many games, some multiple games and they have their own experiences, some good, some pretty bad. Again, I dunno how this will turn out. For the good I hope, we'll see.